Book of Exalted Deeds spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

Book of Exalted Deeds spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Jurosem
06-29-04, 10:43 AM I recently got access to the Book of Exalted Deeds, and as I was going through it I as getting disappointed as there were few powerful or useful abilities for my character (I play fighter/mages) to use, until I got to the spells section...
Aren't a few of them just a little TOO good? One in particular comes to mind, Blinding Glory.
For those of you who haven't seen it, a brief summary. 100-ft/level spread, centred on you. (VERY good range and area, swallow a whole army of baddies). Lasts one hour per level, but does take one hour to cast (A pain, but worth it). Here's the good part, all evil creatures in the area are blinded. No save. No spell resistance. Ain't that just a little too good? Even enormously powerful evil epic creatures are going to be automatically blinded, along with all their friends. (The spell doesn't make it totally clear whether the blinding is permanent or not, but since it's good enough anyway, I assume it means only as long as they're in the area of the spell.)
One more: Starmantle. In a nutshell, all nonmagical weapons are automatically destroyed and deal no damage when they hit you. Magic weapons allow you a DC 15 Reflex saving throw to halve their damage. This is one of those spells I love, powerful but not TOO powerful at medium or low level, and yet it remains just as powerful no matter how powerful you (and the guys you're fighting) get, in fact really becoming even more powerful at later levels. (A sixth level spell that takes most of the hard work out of taking on a Hecatoncheires).

Any errata or anything published to take these back? Anything I've missed to make these spells not quite so hot as I think they are? Any thoughts?

Oh yeah, one more idea, what about the ninth level cleric spell End To Strife. 80-ft. emanation, any creature in it who attacks anyone else takes 20d6 points of damage, every time they attack. Those of you familiar with epic feats will know that "emanation" is a word to look out for...
Seeker95
06-29-04, 04:19 PM 1. BoVD and BoED are both a little over the top in power. However, if you read the first few pages of each, you will find an explicit comment that these books are for DMs only.

2. Errata will come only if it is a mistake. Remember -- this book is for DMs, so it may be very intentional.

3. An hour to cast is a long time to make evil creatures stand around while you prepare to blind them.
Jurosem
06-29-04, 07:08 PM I hadn't noticed that DM thing, that's a good point :)
But I don't find the rest of the book to be overpowered at all, just the opposite. With a few exceptions, the prestige classes and feats all seem pretty weak and I wouldn't consider using many of them. Which is why I found it so strange to then suddenly find all these high-powered spells.
Salla
06-30-04, 01:27 AM BoVD is DMs only, BoED is *not*. This is because PCs aren't supposed to be evil or vile, but they are expected to be good, and it's darn nice if they're Exalted.

Now, let's imagine an actual situation with Blinding Glory. It takes an hour to cast, so you can't cast it *anywhere near* the enemies you intend to fight ... and you must be aware of them, since if they're approaching you, you ain't got time to cast it.

For the next several hours, you *glow*. Brightly. They know you're coming. They'll know that that aura is nothing they want to deal with, so you will be on the recieving end of every attack and spell with a range greater than 100 feet that they can muster. You'll look impressive as a luminescent pincushion.

And it's a ninth level spell. Ninth level spells are SUPPOSED to be ridiculous.

Starmantle: So weapons don't work ... you'll still get nailed by natural weapons or spells/spell-like abilities. And what Medium or Low? This is a sixth level spell for Sorcs or Wizards, that's 12th level minimum, that's high level.

End to Strife: Anybody with a brain just STOPS FIGHTING. Where's the problem? It just buys you time, and again, anybody who really wants to keep fighting can back out of the 80' emanation and start pelting you with arrows and Meteor Strikes. You can't even sneak this one in, since it says that anybody in the area instantly knows that fighting will get them hurt, and anything smarter than vermin will just stop.

And again ... these are two NINTH level spells. NINTH. You must be at least, what, 17th level to cast them? Compare these spells to other ninth level PHB spells, and you'll see that they aren't overpowered at all. Same for Starmantle and other 6th level spells.

Besides, any of these can be dispelled, greater-dispelled, or Disjoined, counterspelled, so it's not like they're indefensible.
Lina_Inverse
06-30-04, 03:46 AM Originally posted by Salla

And what Medium or Low? This is a sixth level spell for Sorcs or Wizards, that's 12th level minimum, that's high level.

nitpick.no it isnt.you should(theres no real reason not to) surpass that in a caimpaign.D&D 3E was designed for you to achieve 20th level in a standard caimpaign that lasts one year.
was_fired
06-30-04, 04:15 AM Yeah began by banning every spell in the game which only targeted a specific alignment or didn't effect a specific alignment (both for flavor and balance reasons). I admit that I kept in the weapon aligned enchantments (holy/unholy) since they are needed for DR and are less troublsome than holy word.

Past that blanket ban I haven't really reviewed BoED since puchasing it except when I got into a debate with a player about vow of poverty's balance. Now I have to nerf it a bit since he was right it did give too much wealth.
Salla
06-30-04, 10:08 AM Originally posted by Lina_Inverse
nitpick.no it isnt.you should(theres no real reason not to) surpass that in a caimpaign.D&D 3E was designed for you to achieve 20th level in a standard caimpaign that lasts one year.

Anything double-digits is 'high level' to me. 1-5 is low, 6-10 is mid-range/medium, 11-15 is high, 16-20 is very high level. I didn't say it wasn't attainable or surpassable ... just at that level, the PCs (especially spellcasters) are capable of throwing around some pretty sick power.
Wood
06-30-04, 10:16 AM Originally posted by Lina_Inverse
D&D 3E was designed for you to achieve 20th level in a standard caimpaign that lasts one year.

hahaha. A year?!?!?!

You can go to twentieth level in a week by 3e rules.

A year. bwahahahahaha
MrkGrismer
06-30-04, 11:20 AM Maybe in a week of playing 24 hours a day...

Anyways, most of the more powerful spells in BoED have a sacrifice cost. Some of them pretty bad ones. I especially like the ones that say:

Sacrifice: you die.

:D
Darth K'Trava
06-30-04, 04:48 PM Originally posted by Wood
hahaha. A year?!?!?!

You can go to twentieth level in a week by 3e rules.

A year. bwahahahahaha

hehhehehehe

We went from 11th level to 33rd in about 8 months!
Jurosem
06-30-04, 08:06 PM Salla, The spells I mentioned are all for use in certain circumstances, I never said they could or should be used all the time or whenever you get into a fight. But it doesn't take that much ingenuity to find ways to use them that are very, very good. The most obvious use for Blinding Glory is against large armies. You may object that any high level character is going to be able to take on mass low-level charcters with impunity, and this is true, but BG doesn't just affect low level characters, you can blind an army of very powerful creatures. Yes you need warning, but armies generally give you that, especially if you're a high level magic user. And yes they can conceivably stand outside that area and shoot you with ranged attacks, but that's 100 ft/level, not just 100ft. Not many attacks that can be used while blind or from a range greater than around 2000ft. And if they're going to avoid coming because they see your light, you can always stay away from the scene until the battle is already raging. Pop in to the middle of the fray with a teleport, blind all the bad guys while the forces of righteousness hack them to bits. It's still not foolproof, there are things that can be done, but in this case they're not easy. They're not going to be able to target you with dispels, and darkness spells will generally have a limited effect. (2000ft spread. That's HUGE) And what about offensive uses? Join an army that's about to assault a fortress or city of evil creatures, teleport in just as your allies arrive and throw the defences into ruin

I could go on about the other two, but suffice it to say that while they too require specific circumstances, when used properly they can be very powerful. Alot of very harsh bad guys rely on manufactured weapons rather than natural attacks.

And I read the introduction to BoED and I concur, I don't know what it says in the introduction to the BoVD, but I didn't see anything in this one about DM approval (although the final word on anything in this game is of course always with the DM).

Finally, there's a magic item I want to add to the overpowered list, the retributive amulet. Half the damage you take from melee attacks goes to the attacker instead. And all it requires is CL 5th, Craft Wondrous item, and shield other. Seems like it should be an artifact to me
MrkGrismer
06-30-04, 10:23 PM Utterdark + plague
ecaroth
06-30-04, 11:17 PM dude, why did you make this thread 17 and up, thats pretty foolish.

(eca says hi)
Lina_Inverse
07-01-04, 06:30 AM Originally posted by Salla
Anything double-digits is 'high level' to me. 1-5 is low, 6-10 is mid-range/medium, 11-15 is high, 16-20 is very high level. I didn't say it wasn't attainable or surpassable ... just at that level, the PCs (especially spellcasters) are capable of throwing around some pretty sick power.

its not that sick at all,considering that the average metropolis has 13 or so charecters of 16+.power is relative(i know i spelled that wrong x.X),so long as theres someone higher level than you your not high level.
Eco-Mono
07-05-04, 05:19 PM Originally posted by ecaroth
dude, why did you make this thread 17 and up, thats pretty foolish.

(eca says hi) Because the correct "bin" for topics about the Book of Exalted Deeds has a 17 and up stamp on it. Not his fault.
Oakraven
07-13-04, 09:30 PM Originally posted by Salla
BoVD is DMs only, BoED is *not*. This is because PCs aren't supposed to be evil or vile, but they are expected to be good, and it's darn nice if they're Exalted.

Hmm

I cuold have sworn that the BoVD was the players book and the BoED was the GM Book. . . .
Elendur
07-14-04, 12:24 AM Originally posted by Lina_Inverse
nitpick.no it isnt.you should(theres no real reason not to) surpass that in a caimpaign.D&D 3E was designed for you to achieve 20th level in a standard caimpaign that lasts one year. 3e was designed for you to achieve 20th level in a standard campaign after 260 encounters(13 per level). How long it takes to run 260 encounters is totally up to you. (We're up to 9th level after about 2 years).

As for the BOED, it needs to be heavily scrutinized by the DM, who is free to allow, disallow or modify anything he sees fit. I find that it is sadly underpowered in parts and absurdly overpowered in others.
Mindshred
07-14-04, 04:15 AM Celestial Brilliance....I think that spell just plain lasts too long >.<

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jurosem 06-29-04, 10:43 AM	I recently got access to the Book of Exalted Deeds, and as I was going through it I as getting disappointed as there were few powerful or useful abilities for my character (I play fighter/mages) to use, until I got to the spells section... Aren't a few of them just a little TOO good? One in particular comes to mind, Blinding Glory. For those of you who haven't seen it, a brief summary. 100-ft/level spread, centred on you. (VERY good range and area, swallow a whole army of baddies). Lasts one hour per level, but does take one hour to cast (A pain, but worth it). Here's the good part, all evil creatures in the area are blinded. No save. No spell resistance. Ain't that just a little too good? Even enormously powerful evil epic creatures are going to be automatically blinded, along with all their friends. (The spell doesn't make it totally clear whether the blinding is permanent or not, but since it's good enough anyway, I assume it means only as long as they're in the area of the spell.) One more: Starmantle. In a nutshell, all nonmagical weapons are automatically destroyed and deal no damage when they hit you. Magic weapons allow you a DC 15 Reflex saving throw to halve their damage. This is one of those spells I love, powerful but not TOO powerful at medium or low level, and yet it remains just as powerful no matter how powerful you (and the guys you're fighting) get, in fact really becoming even more powerful at later levels. (A sixth level spell that takes most of the hard work out of taking on a Hecatoncheires). Any errata or anything published to take these back? Anything I've missed to make these spells not quite so hot as I think they are? Any thoughts? Oh yeah, one more idea, what about the ninth level cleric spell End To Strife. 80-ft. emanation, any creature in it who attacks anyone else takes 20d6 points of damage, every time they attack. Those of you familiar with epic feats will know that "emanation" is a word to look out for...
Seeker95 06-29-04, 04:19 PM	1. BoVD and BoED are both a little over the top in power. However, if you read the first few pages of each, you will find an explicit comment that these books are for DMs only. 2. Errata will come only if it is a mistake. Remember -- this book is for DMs, so it may be very intentional. 3. An hour to cast is a long time to make evil creatures stand around while you prepare to blind them.
Jurosem 06-29-04, 07:08 PM	I hadn't noticed that DM thing, that's a good point :) But I don't find the rest of the book to be overpowered at all, just the opposite. With a few exceptions, the prestige classes and feats all seem pretty weak and I wouldn't consider using many of them. Which is why I found it so strange to then suddenly find all these high-powered spells.
Salla 06-30-04, 01:27 AM	BoVD is DMs only, BoED is not. This is because PCs aren't supposed to be evil or vile, but they are expected to be good, and it's darn nice if they're Exalted. Now, let's imagine an actual situation with Blinding Glory. It takes an hour to cast, so you can't cast it anywhere near the enemies you intend to fight ... and you must be aware of them, since if they're approaching you, you ain't got time to cast it. For the next several hours, you glow. Brightly. They know you're coming. They'll know that that aura is nothing they want to deal with, so you will be on the recieving end of every attack and spell with a range greater than 100 feet that they can muster. You'll look impressive as a luminescent pincushion. And it's a ninth level spell. Ninth level spells are SUPPOSED to be ridiculous. Starmantle: So weapons don't work ... you'll still get nailed by natural weapons or spells/spell-like abilities. And what Medium or Low? This is a sixth level spell for Sorcs or Wizards, that's 12th level minimum, that's high level. End to Strife: Anybody with a brain just STOPS FIGHTING. Where's the problem? It just buys you time, and again, anybody who really wants to keep fighting can back out of the 80' emanation and start pelting you with arrows and Meteor Strikes. You can't even sneak this one in, since it says that anybody in the area instantly knows that fighting will get them hurt, and anything smarter than vermin will just stop. And again ... these are two NINTH level spells. NINTH. You must be at least, what, 17th level to cast them? Compare these spells to other ninth level PHB spells, and you'll see that they aren't overpowered at all. Same for Starmantle and other 6th level spells. Besides, any of these can be dispelled, greater-dispelled, or Disjoined, counterspelled, so it's not like they're indefensible.
Lina_Inverse 06-30-04, 03:46 AM	Originally posted by Salla And what Medium or Low? This is a sixth level spell for Sorcs or Wizards, that's 12th level minimum, that's high level. nitpick.no it isnt.you should(theres no real reason not to) surpass that in a caimpaign.D&D 3E was designed for you to achieve 20th level in a standard caimpaign that lasts one year.
was_fired 06-30-04, 04:15 AM	Yeah began by banning every spell in the game which only targeted a specific alignment or didn't effect a specific alignment (both for flavor and balance reasons). I admit that I kept in the weapon aligned enchantments (holy/unholy) since they are needed for DR and are less troublsome than holy word. Past that blanket ban I haven't really reviewed BoED since puchasing it except when I got into a debate with a player about vow of poverty's balance. Now I have to nerf it a bit since he was right it did give too much wealth.
Salla 06-30-04, 10:08 AM	Originally posted by Lina_Inverse nitpick.no it isnt.you should(theres no real reason not to) surpass that in a caimpaign.D&D 3E was designed for you to achieve 20th level in a standard caimpaign that lasts one year. Anything double-digits is 'high level' to me. 1-5 is low, 6-10 is mid-range/medium, 11-15 is high, 16-20 is very high level. I didn't say it wasn't attainable or surpassable ... just at that level, the PCs (especially spellcasters) are capable of throwing around some pretty sick power.
Wood 06-30-04, 10:16 AM	Originally posted by Lina_Inverse D&D 3E was designed for you to achieve 20th level in a standard caimpaign that lasts one year. hahaha. A year?!?!?! You can go to twentieth level in a week by 3e rules. A year. bwahahahahaha
MrkGrismer 06-30-04, 11:20 AM	Maybe in a week of playing 24 hours a day... Anyways, most of the more powerful spells in BoED have a sacrifice cost. Some of them pretty bad ones. I especially like the ones that say: Sacrifice: you die. :D
Darth K'Trava 06-30-04, 04:48 PM	Originally posted by Wood hahaha. A year?!?!?! You can go to twentieth level in a week by 3e rules. A year. bwahahahahaha hehhehehehe We went from 11th level to 33rd in about 8 months!
Jurosem 06-30-04, 08:06 PM	Salla, The spells I mentioned are all for use in certain circumstances, I never said they could or should be used all the time or whenever you get into a fight. But it doesn't take that much ingenuity to find ways to use them that are very, very good. The most obvious use for Blinding Glory is against large armies. You may object that any high level character is going to be able to take on mass low-level charcters with impunity, and this is true, but BG doesn't just affect low level characters, you can blind an army of very powerful creatures. Yes you need warning, but armies generally give you that, especially if you're a high level magic user. And yes they can conceivably stand outside that area and shoot you with ranged attacks, but that's 100 ft/level, not just 100ft. Not many attacks that can be used while blind or from a range greater than around 2000ft. And if they're going to avoid coming because they see your light, you can always stay away from the scene until the battle is already raging. Pop in to the middle of the fray with a teleport, blind all the bad guys while the forces of righteousness hack them to bits. It's still not foolproof, there are things that can be done, but in this case they're not easy. They're not going to be able to target you with dispels, and darkness spells will generally have a limited effect. (2000ft spread. That's HUGE) And what about offensive uses? Join an army that's about to assault a fortress or city of evil creatures, teleport in just as your allies arrive and throw the defences into ruin I could go on about the other two, but suffice it to say that while they too require specific circumstances, when used properly they can be very powerful. Alot of very harsh bad guys rely on manufactured weapons rather than natural attacks. And I read the introduction to BoED and I concur, I don't know what it says in the introduction to the BoVD, but I didn't see anything in this one about DM approval (although the final word on anything in this game is of course always with the DM). Finally, there's a magic item I want to add to the overpowered list, the retributive amulet. Half the damage you take from melee attacks goes to the attacker instead. And all it requires is CL 5th, Craft Wondrous item, and shield other. Seems like it should be an artifact to me
MrkGrismer 06-30-04, 10:23 PM	Utterdark + plague
ecaroth 06-30-04, 11:17 PM	dude, why did you make this thread 17 and up, thats pretty foolish. (eca says hi)
Lina_Inverse 07-01-04, 06:30 AM	Originally posted by Salla Anything double-digits is 'high level' to me. 1-5 is low, 6-10 is mid-range/medium, 11-15 is high, 16-20 is very high level. I didn't say it wasn't attainable or surpassable ... just at that level, the PCs (especially spellcasters) are capable of throwing around some pretty sick power. its not that sick at all,considering that the average metropolis has 13 or so charecters of 16+.power is relative(i know i spelled that wrong x.X),so long as theres someone higher level than you your not high level.
Eco-Mono 07-05-04, 05:19 PM	Originally posted by ecaroth dude, why did you make this thread 17 and up, thats pretty foolish. (eca says hi) Because the correct "bin" for topics about the Book of Exalted Deeds has a 17 and up stamp on it. Not his fault.
Oakraven 07-13-04, 09:30 PM	Originally posted by Salla BoVD is DMs only, BoED is not. This is because PCs aren't supposed to be evil or vile, but they are expected to be good, and it's darn nice if they're Exalted. Hmm I cuold have sworn that the BoVD was the players book and the BoED was the GM Book. . . .
Elendur 07-14-04, 12:24 AM	Originally posted by Lina_Inverse nitpick.no it isnt.you should(theres no real reason not to) surpass that in a caimpaign.D&D 3E was designed for you to achieve 20th level in a standard caimpaign that lasts one year. 3e was designed for you to achieve 20th level in a standard campaign after 260 encounters(13 per level). How long it takes to run 260 encounters is totally up to you. (We're up to 9th level after about 2 years). As for the BOED, it needs to be heavily scrutinized by the DM, who is free to allow, disallow or modify anything he sees fit. I find that it is sadly underpowered in parts and absurdly overpowered in others.
Mindshred 07-14-04, 04:15 AM	Celestial Brilliance....I think that spell just plain lasts too long >.<