Book Trouble [Archive] - Wizards Community

Book Trouble [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Wildonion
09-24-04, 08:40 AM Alright this has gone on long enough and now I need some advice. With the exception of one player everyone else lacks a Player's Handbook and set of dice. The problem is that we always need to see something or I need to roll too blah blah blah.

Anyway we meet on the third Saturday of every month and next meeting falls on the 30th anniversery of the game (YES!) and I plan to have everyone scrounge up some cash (About $38) to buy a player's handbook and some dice. (Media Play may still have a 20% off sale, in honor of the anniversery, going on but I'm not sure it will last until the 30th anniversery).

So how do I get them to buy there own Books!
Lord_BloodMoon
09-24-04, 09:41 AM You don't.

In actuality...not every character needs a PHB. You can live with one or two and just share around the party. Ideally, everyone would have one, but it's not neccessary. It just takes a bit longer as people need to pass the PHB around, then look up what they wanted, and they tell you. But really, in the grand scheme of things, in delay isn't that bad.

IMO, the DM should always have one, and the PCs can share. I'd be better if spellcasters had one, but as long as the party as at least one PHB that they can share amongst themselves, and the DM has one, things work just fine.
Seeker95
09-24-04, 11:14 AM You ask.

If they don't, then just make some rules for the gaming table about looking things up until they get the hint. If they don't get the hint, then you have to make a decision for yourself. Are you having fun anyway?

There are also other possibilities... Inform their parents / sig-others of this great gift idea for birthday, Christmas, Ayyam-i-Ha or whatever gift-giving occasion is coming up.
Get one for them.
Create a "snack pool" and ask the players to contribute weekly. Skim a few bucks off the top each time until you have enough to buy another book for the group.
Etc.
JLP
09-24-04, 12:16 PM Tell 'em to go to overstock dot com and part with a few bucks. Geeze. 20 bucks for a PHB including shipping. 40 including a DM's guide. 60 with a Monster Manual. A set of basic dice is 5 bucks, if that.

A PS2 game averages 50. They're good for a week to a month; after that, it's redundant and gathering dust.

A night at the movies is easily 20 bucks. One night.

A 3.5 PHB is good until the next revision's out. That's at least a few YEARS.

On the other hand, they might not be into it. That's fine. Find different players.
SheldonSmith
09-24-04, 12:46 PM I dm two groups. In one everyone has a PHB and dice. In the other I am the only person with books and dice.

What I did was I have 1MM, 1DMG, and 3 PHBs. I keep the core set with me and put the two PHBs on the ends of the table. I originally bought 4 PHBs, but one of my players bought one from me and leaves it at home.

As for dice I bought a "pound of dice" and supplimented it with about 10 d20s. I then made 4 bags of dice and I let my players use them.

I am sure that this sounds extreme, but... I keep all the materials at my house so they are always available. In the past, I don't know how many times I have heard, I left my stuff at home. I even keep the character sheets with me.

Now that said. In the group with the experienced players, I still keep dice and character sheets for two of the players. The other players did not want to leave their *stuff* with me.

Just the way I do things.
Marchen
09-24-04, 03:31 PM If you want to play the game, you should have a PHB. At least.
Wildonion
09-24-04, 07:42 PM We have 2 PHB's the problem is that character creation takes, literally, an extra hour. Also they:

-Always have to borrow my books.
-Use the other people's dice (And good luck :) )
-You get the idea.

If they just got a book each and some dice we would, this is no exageration, save about a half-hour to an hour a meeting AND they would have a better grasp of the rules and character creation. Only 2 are clueless when it comes to creating characters and the rest just take a long time using the books. I can pop out 3-5 characters in about 10 minutes while they take 20 for one.

The idea of having a fund until we can afford another book(s) and 1-2 extra sets of dice would be good.

One thing is I DM a group of 5 (soon to be six) and the time (and agony of the whining) is getting to me. More hwlp would be good, though already I have gotten some good advice. :)
richard_k
09-25-04, 08:56 AM 1 DM + 8 Players + 1 set of books + 1 set of dice = What I had the first time i played DnD. It was a mess. Still is, but now atleast we have 3 PHBs around and everyone has a set of dice. Which is nice.
Probably the best way would be to get them gift vouchers at a store that sells dnd stuff and "coax" them into buying them.
Escef
09-25-04, 09:40 AM The SRD (system reference document) is your friend. It's on WotC's webspace as well as a few others. If you play near a computer or someone has access to a laptop it makes things easier. A printer would be good, the parts that get accessed frequently, such as combat, can be printed up and a copy given to each player. Using MS Word and some cut-n-paste you can create a "spellbook" tailored for each of the group's casters (this is easier for casters who know few spells, like sorcerers, and harder for those with access to a lot, like druids and clerics).

Best of all, it's 100% free for the asking.
Seeker95
09-25-04, 01:46 PM The SRD (system reference document) is your friend. Not when you are trying to do character creation and character level advancement. These facets are noticably absent from the SRD for this very reason.

You want your players to know how to create and advance their characters? They need a PHB.
Wildonion
09-25-04, 03:02 PM The SRD (system reference document) is your friend. It's on WotC's webspace as well as a few others. If you play near a computer or someone has access to a laptop it makes things easier. A printer would be good, the parts that get accessed frequently, such as combat, can be printed up and a copy given to each player. Using MS Word and some cut-n-paste you can create a "spellbook" tailored for each of the group's casters (this is easier for casters who know few spells, like sorcerers, and harder for those with access to a lot, like druids and clerics).

Best of all, it's 100% free for the asking.

I like that spellbook Idea! Thank you! *puts hands to mouth* KEEP THE GOOD ADVICE COMING! :D
protonik
09-25-04, 11:46 PM A night at the movies is easily 20 bucks. One night.

man, I feel lucky when I see statements like this, I pay 6.50 for my ticket, large Hawaiian Punch and a small popcorn extra butter and the small is the size of most theaters mediums and this isn't some three weeks later we get the movie theater, this is new release day etc. 4 dollar seats man, FOUR DOLLARS!

Jason
Mrvice
09-26-04, 03:59 AM Basicly our gaming group has the same problem, in order to fix it I impossed a few rules.

1. No player can game without dice. IE Tell you players that if they want to play they need to buy a set of dice, it's not a big investment and amazon.com even sells the D&D 30th aniversery dice on their websight. So, even if you don't have a gaming store near you, dice should still be avalible.

2. For the first few weeks of a campign have players donate 5 dollars, (feel free to subsitute a dollar amount more aproprate to you gaming groups wallets.) This money is put into a pot every week, and when you finaly recieve enough money pick up the core book set. Tell everyone that these books are the comunal books and that your books are now strictly yourse and as such they are no longer public domain. After a few weeks of fighting over the PHB the more hardcore players usualy get sick of this book tug of war and buy their own. While your casual players, the ones who rarely use the book anyway, will be happy waiting their turn. It also helps to casualy remind players who are constatly borrowing the comunal book to look up spells, that they really should have their own so their not wasting so much of the groups time.

These books are to be kept where you play your D&D campagin or with the DM. They are never to go home with a player. At such a time where the group breaks up, sell off the books in the comunal pot to whoever wants them. The unwanted books go into the DM's collection or are randomly given to palyers as the group sees fit.

Also feel free to keep this donation going in order to pick up books like the complete fighter, which as a whole aren't going to be in demand as much as the PHB, but are still definatly a welcomed additon to any gaming groups arsonal.

Suggestions:

1. Remember that christmas is just around the corner, and 22 dollar phbs make great gifts.

2. If you play in a state with bottle returns, make the players leave all bottles with you. All returns you get from those bottles shoud go twords getting enough money so you can outfit all players with a set of dice.

3. Spend sometime on your computer and generate a quick rules guide to generation for your players.

Mr Vice

PS: Please pardon my spelling
Wildonion
09-27-04, 08:33 AM I'm a horrible speller too so don't worry about it. Anyway good news: A player got his own dice and PHB! This is good because he is one of the players who needed to learn character creation.

Also:

1) The idea of Christmas is a good one, now I have to save up some money and pay back my mom for my Lizard. (Deekin is my Lizard AND animal companion!)

2) there will be a new guy so he doesn't need a book yet because we arn't sure if he will even like the game.

3) One guy is also paying back his mom, not sure what he bought.

4) Trying to convince the other two except ones parents are Anti-D&D in their household for it will throw you into the pit! and the other plays MMORPG's a lot so his cash goes into his computer.

As it stands we have 3 people with a PHB, One I will badger because his uncle plays so he should have a copy anyway, and the other two..... well we will see. The idea of a communial set seems good (I just don't want non-DM's looking into the DMG, takes away from the mystery and power that I hold, BWA HA HA HA HA!)
Seeker95
09-27-04, 09:18 AM I just don't want non-DM's looking into the DMG, takes away from the mystery and power that I holdI went through this phase 20 years ago when one of my players bought a DMG. You'll get over it when you realize that the information in the DMG is not "for DM eyes only" but rather a part of the game that DMs have to know whether the players know it or not. An added bonus is that when your players have a DMG, it vastly increases the likelihood that you will get to be a player at times!

I do, however, maintain the rule that players cannot access the DMG or Monster Manual during the game.
PhelimReagh
09-27-04, 03:46 PM :(

If you have NO OTHER RECOURSE (and I do not like this suggestion), have your players chip in, have one guy buy the PDF and print out copies. Nowhere near as elegant, but they'll have what they need. If they're not gonna pay at all as it is, even an extra couple of bucks for WotC in the form of a PDF purchase is "technically" better than nothing.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Wildonion 09-24-04, 08:40 AM	Alright this has gone on long enough and now I need some advice. With the exception of one player everyone else lacks a Player's Handbook and set of dice. The problem is that we always need to see something or I need to roll too blah blah blah. Anyway we meet on the third Saturday of every month and next meeting falls on the 30th anniversery of the game (YES!) and I plan to have everyone scrounge up some cash (About $38) to buy a player's handbook and some dice. (Media Play may still have a 20% off sale, in honor of the anniversery, going on but I'm not sure it will last until the 30th anniversery). So how do I get them to buy there own Books!
Lord_BloodMoon 09-24-04, 09:41 AM	You don't. In actuality...not every character needs a PHB. You can live with one or two and just share around the party. Ideally, everyone would have one, but it's not neccessary. It just takes a bit longer as people need to pass the PHB around, then look up what they wanted, and they tell you. But really, in the grand scheme of things, in delay isn't that bad. IMO, the DM should always have one, and the PCs can share. I'd be better if spellcasters had one, but as long as the party as at least one PHB that they can share amongst themselves, and the DM has one, things work just fine.
Seeker95 09-24-04, 11:14 AM	You ask. If they don't, then just make some rules for the gaming table about looking things up until they get the hint. If they don't get the hint, then you have to make a decision for yourself. Are you having fun anyway? There are also other possibilities... Inform their parents / sig-others of this great gift idea for birthday, Christmas, Ayyam-i-Ha or whatever gift-giving occasion is coming up. Get one for them. Create a "snack pool" and ask the players to contribute weekly. Skim a few bucks off the top each time until you have enough to buy another book for the group. Etc.
JLP 09-24-04, 12:16 PM	Tell 'em to go to overstock dot com and part with a few bucks. Geeze. 20 bucks for a PHB including shipping. 40 including a DM's guide. 60 with a Monster Manual. A set of basic dice is 5 bucks, if that. A PS2 game averages 50. They're good for a week to a month; after that, it's redundant and gathering dust. A night at the movies is easily 20 bucks. One night. A 3.5 PHB is good until the next revision's out. That's at least a few YEARS. On the other hand, they might not be into it. That's fine. Find different players.
SheldonSmith 09-24-04, 12:46 PM	I dm two groups. In one everyone has a PHB and dice. In the other I am the only person with books and dice. What I did was I have 1MM, 1DMG, and 3 PHBs. I keep the core set with me and put the two PHBs on the ends of the table. I originally bought 4 PHBs, but one of my players bought one from me and leaves it at home. As for dice I bought a "pound of dice" and supplimented it with about 10 d20s. I then made 4 bags of dice and I let my players use them. I am sure that this sounds extreme, but... I keep all the materials at my house so they are always available. In the past, I don't know how many times I have heard, I left my stuff at home. I even keep the character sheets with me. Now that said. In the group with the experienced players, I still keep dice and character sheets for two of the players. The other players did not want to leave their stuff with me. Just the way I do things.
Marchen 09-24-04, 03:31 PM	If you want to play the game, you should have a PHB. At least.
Wildonion 09-24-04, 07:42 PM	We have 2 PHB's the problem is that character creation takes, literally, an extra hour. Also they: -Always have to borrow my books. -Use the other people's dice (And good luck :) ) -You get the idea. If they just got a book each and some dice we would, this is no exageration, save about a half-hour to an hour a meeting AND they would have a better grasp of the rules and character creation. Only 2 are clueless when it comes to creating characters and the rest just take a long time using the books. I can pop out 3-5 characters in about 10 minutes while they take 20 for one. The idea of having a fund until we can afford another book(s) and 1-2 extra sets of dice would be good. One thing is I DM a group of 5 (soon to be six) and the time (and agony of the whining) is getting to me. More hwlp would be good, though already I have gotten some good advice. :)
richard_k 09-25-04, 08:56 AM	1 DM + 8 Players + 1 set of books + 1 set of dice = What I had the first time i played DnD. It was a mess. Still is, but now atleast we have 3 PHBs around and everyone has a set of dice. Which is nice. Probably the best way would be to get them gift vouchers at a store that sells dnd stuff and "coax" them into buying them.
Escef 09-25-04, 09:40 AM	The SRD (system reference document) is your friend. It's on WotC's webspace as well as a few others. If you play near a computer or someone has access to a laptop it makes things easier. A printer would be good, the parts that get accessed frequently, such as combat, can be printed up and a copy given to each player. Using MS Word and some cut-n-paste you can create a "spellbook" tailored for each of the group's casters (this is easier for casters who know few spells, like sorcerers, and harder for those with access to a lot, like druids and clerics). Best of all, it's 100% free for the asking.
Seeker95 09-25-04, 01:46 PM	The SRD (system reference document) is your friend. Not when you are trying to do character creation and character level advancement. These facets are noticably absent from the SRD for this very reason. You want your players to know how to create and advance their characters? They need a PHB.
Wildonion 09-25-04, 03:02 PM	The SRD (system reference document) is your friend. It's on WotC's webspace as well as a few others. If you play near a computer or someone has access to a laptop it makes things easier. A printer would be good, the parts that get accessed frequently, such as combat, can be printed up and a copy given to each player. Using MS Word and some cut-n-paste you can create a "spellbook" tailored for each of the group's casters (this is easier for casters who know few spells, like sorcerers, and harder for those with access to a lot, like druids and clerics). Best of all, it's 100% free for the asking. I like that spellbook Idea! Thank you! puts hands to mouth KEEP THE GOOD ADVICE COMING! :D
protonik 09-25-04, 11:46 PM	A night at the movies is easily 20 bucks. One night. man, I feel lucky when I see statements like this, I pay 6.50 for my ticket, large Hawaiian Punch and a small popcorn extra butter and the small is the size of most theaters mediums and this isn't some three weeks later we get the movie theater, this is new release day etc. 4 dollar seats man, FOUR DOLLARS! Jason
Mrvice 09-26-04, 03:59 AM	Basicly our gaming group has the same problem, in order to fix it I impossed a few rules. 1. No player can game without dice. IE Tell you players that if they want to play they need to buy a set of dice, it's not a big investment and amazon.com even sells the D&D 30th aniversery dice on their websight. So, even if you don't have a gaming store near you, dice should still be avalible. 2. For the first few weeks of a campign have players donate 5 dollars, (feel free to subsitute a dollar amount more aproprate to you gaming groups wallets.) This money is put into a pot every week, and when you finaly recieve enough money pick up the core book set. Tell everyone that these books are the comunal books and that your books are now strictly yourse and as such they are no longer public domain. After a few weeks of fighting over the PHB the more hardcore players usualy get sick of this book tug of war and buy their own. While your casual players, the ones who rarely use the book anyway, will be happy waiting their turn. It also helps to casualy remind players who are constatly borrowing the comunal book to look up spells, that they really should have their own so their not wasting so much of the groups time. These books are to be kept where you play your D&D campagin or with the DM. They are never to go home with a player. At such a time where the group breaks up, sell off the books in the comunal pot to whoever wants them. The unwanted books go into the DM's collection or are randomly given to palyers as the group sees fit. Also feel free to keep this donation going in order to pick up books like the complete fighter, which as a whole aren't going to be in demand as much as the PHB, but are still definatly a welcomed additon to any gaming groups arsonal. Suggestions: 1. Remember that christmas is just around the corner, and 22 dollar phbs make great gifts. 2. If you play in a state with bottle returns, make the players leave all bottles with you. All returns you get from those bottles shoud go twords getting enough money so you can outfit all players with a set of dice. 3. Spend sometime on your computer and generate a quick rules guide to generation for your players. Mr Vice PS: Please pardon my spelling
Wildonion 09-27-04, 08:33 AM	I'm a horrible speller too so don't worry about it. Anyway good news: A player got his own dice and PHB! This is good because he is one of the players who needed to learn character creation. Also: 1) The idea of Christmas is a good one, now I have to save up some money and pay back my mom for my Lizard. (Deekin is my Lizard AND animal companion!) 2) there will be a new guy so he doesn't need a book yet because we arn't sure if he will even like the game. 3) One guy is also paying back his mom, not sure what he bought. 4) Trying to convince the other two except ones parents are Anti-D&D in their household for it will throw you into the pit! and the other plays MMORPG's a lot so his cash goes into his computer. As it stands we have 3 people with a PHB, One I will badger because his uncle plays so he should have a copy anyway, and the other two..... well we will see. The idea of a communial set seems good (I just don't want non-DM's looking into the DMG, takes away from the mystery and power that I hold, BWA HA HA HA HA!)
Seeker95 09-27-04, 09:18 AM	I just don't want non-DM's looking into the DMG, takes away from the mystery and power that I holdI went through this phase 20 years ago when one of my players bought a DMG. You'll get over it when you realize that the information in the DMG is not "for DM eyes only" but rather a part of the game that DMs have to know whether the players know it or not. An added bonus is that when your players have a DMG, it vastly increases the likelihood that you will get to be a player at times! I do, however, maintain the rule that players cannot access the DMG or Monster Manual during the game.
PhelimReagh 09-27-04, 03:46 PM	:( If you have NO OTHER RECOURSE (and I do not like this suggestion), have your players chip in, have one guy buy the PDF and print out copies. Nowhere near as elegant, but they'll have what they need. If they're not gonna pay at all as it is, even an extra couple of bucks for WotC in the form of a PDF purchase is "technically" better than nothing.