Books cost too much. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Books cost too much. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Flame Lancer
01-18-04, 08:54 AM No, this is not another complaint about the non-core books costing too much....so much as it is a complaint about lots of the same information being cross-published. I know we are not forced to buy the non-basic books and I know the books don't cost THAT much compared to other hobbies and I know the non-basic books will not sell as well as the basics (so the cost of materials and therefore the prices are higher), but I do get a little niggled, that I see some of the same feats, PRCs, equipment, etc published in multiple volumes.

So, yea, I don't mind shelling out a few extra dollars for a smaller book, if it has some cool new information in it that I can incorporate into my game, but I really don't appreciate having to pay for some of the same material that I already have in another book.
Zherog
01-18-04, 11:20 AM Sometimes material is cross-published for reference purposes. The theory is that all you need to use any given book is the core rules. So if I'm writing a new book for WotC and I have an idea for feat X, and feat X is a perfect extension of feat A that appeared in a book you published last year, I will need to include your feat in my book.

However, I did say sometimes to open that statement. I do think more often than not, the cross-publication is done simply to add material, and thus make the book longer. :bored:
WizO_Catoblepas
01-18-04, 11:41 AM I understand what you are saying. I bought Underdark only to find out some of the material in it was in City of the Spider Queen and had a similar thought.

However, it they didn't add all the material that was relevant to the underdark and required people to other books that had the material to have the entire story, we all know that there would have been an uproar against that approach as well. (ie posts like "Why are you making me buy City of the Spider Queen when I all I was to do is plop down my XX.XX dollars and have all the material in one reference? The penny-pinching jerks at WotC is gouging us by making us buy all of the books to really understand everything about the underdark!" ... )
Kaya Kenobi
01-19-04, 12:33 AM And that's why I haven't bought anything made by WotC after their folly... Sorry, no need to buy any splat books, because they took most of it and published it in things like Complete Warrior.
Geethree
01-19-04, 01:03 AM However, it they didn't add all the material that was relevant to the underdark and required people to other books that had the material to have the entire story, we all know that there would have been an uproar against that approach as well. (ie posts like "Why are you making me buy City of the Spider Queen when I all I was to do is plop down my XX.XX dollars and have all the material in one reference? The penny-pinching jerks at WotC is gouging us by making us buy all of the books to really understand everything about the underdark!" ... )Yep, that sounds about right. I'd rather not have to buy Book A and Book B just so Book A makes sense.

And I think that it's kind of helpful that the same information appears in multiple areas. For example, the 3.5e DMG contains a lot of information about the various planes. Enough so that you can actually have planar adventures. However, if you want more information you can buy the Manual of the Planes.

Same thing with the splat books. Sure, you can find some of that information elsewhere, but you can't find all of that information elsewhere, especially not compiled in one handy reference.
Kaya Kenobi
01-19-04, 01:26 AM Originally posted by Geethree
Yep, that sounds about right. I'd rather not have to buy Book A and Book B just so Book A makes sense.

And that hearkens back to TSR's days where you needed 5 books to run one campaign.. Perfect examples is Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance.
Escef
01-19-04, 02:40 AM Originally posted by Zherog
I do think more often than not, the cross-publication is done simply to add material, and thus make the book longer. :bored:

Sorta like the old 2e Complete Paladin's Handbook. they spent an entire chapter reprinting the paladin class, complete with unneeded charts to suck up space that they couldn't fill with meaningful text. I don't recall any of the other 2e Complete Handbooks reprinting the class description, but I also never got most of the later ones (Druid's, Ranger's, Bard's, etc).

And Kaya, you and I both know that you don't need every published book on a setting to play in it. Granted, there is a sense of "not doing it right" when you lack all of the published material, but if you can't make the setting your own without shelling out for books you don't really want then the only logical recourse is a home brew. In the end, don't feel bad about playing in a published campaign without all the books for it, and don't make a homebrew if you don't have the time or inclination to do so. You can run a perfectly fine Forgotten Realms campaign using nothing but the FRCS. Adjust the magic level and politics to taste and you're good.
Zariell
01-19-04, 01:07 PM Core 3.5...all the new stuff...guess where most of it came from?

Yup! You guessed it, all the expasion 3.0 books.
Ringmereth
01-19-04, 10:13 PM Too bad they can't just publish one monster reference book with all the material from all the Core rulebooks, splatbooks, settings, and everything else. Of course, the thing would be a few thousand pages long, weigh 10 or 15 pounds, and cost a few hundred dollars. Still, it's an idea.
Kaya Kenobi
01-20-04, 12:15 AM Originally posted by Ringmereth
Too bad they can't just publish one monster reference book with all the material from all the Core rulebooks, splatbooks, settings, and everything else. Of course, the thing would be a few thousand pages long, weigh 10 or 15 pounds, and cost a few hundred dollars. Still, it's an idea.

But yet there's one monster in almost all the monster manuals, and he's a demon, devil, whatever.. One of those..
Ringmereth
01-20-04, 11:01 AM Uh... I ment 'monster' as in 'really frickin' big', not 'monster' as in 'monsterous creature'. Sorry.
RhoxandRoll
01-20-04, 11:53 AM Originally posted by Ringmereth
Too bad they can't just publish one monster reference book with all the material from all the Core rulebooks, splatbooks, settings, and everything else. Of course, the thing would be a few thousand pages long, weigh 10 or 15 pounds, and cost a few hundred dollars. Still, it's an idea.

I would put into a very large box set, maybe two or three, as opposed toa HUgE sourcebook.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Flame Lancer 01-18-04, 08:54 AM	No, this is not another complaint about the non-core books costing too much....so much as it is a complaint about lots of the same information being cross-published. I know we are not forced to buy the non-basic books and I know the books don't cost THAT much compared to other hobbies and I know the non-basic books will not sell as well as the basics (so the cost of materials and therefore the prices are higher), but I do get a little niggled, that I see some of the same feats, PRCs, equipment, etc published in multiple volumes. So, yea, I don't mind shelling out a few extra dollars for a smaller book, if it has some cool new information in it that I can incorporate into my game, but I really don't appreciate having to pay for some of the same material that I already have in another book.
Zherog 01-18-04, 11:20 AM	Sometimes material is cross-published for reference purposes. The theory is that all you need to use any given book is the core rules. So if I'm writing a new book for WotC and I have an idea for feat X, and feat X is a perfect extension of feat A that appeared in a book you published last year, I will need to include your feat in my book. However, I did say sometimes to open that statement. I do think more often than not, the cross-publication is done simply to add material, and thus make the book longer. :bored:
WizO_Catoblepas 01-18-04, 11:41 AM	I understand what you are saying. I bought Underdark only to find out some of the material in it was in City of the Spider Queen and had a similar thought. However, it they didn't add all the material that was relevant to the underdark and required people to other books that had the material to have the entire story, we all know that there would have been an uproar against that approach as well. (ie posts like "Why are you making me buy City of the Spider Queen when I all I was to do is plop down my XX.XX dollars and have all the material in one reference? The penny-pinching jerks at WotC is gouging us by making us buy all of the books to really understand everything about the underdark!" ... )
Kaya Kenobi 01-19-04, 12:33 AM	And that's why I haven't bought anything made by WotC after their folly... Sorry, no need to buy any splat books, because they took most of it and published it in things like Complete Warrior.
Geethree 01-19-04, 01:03 AM	However, it they didn't add all the material that was relevant to the underdark and required people to other books that had the material to have the entire story, we all know that there would have been an uproar against that approach as well. (ie posts like "Why are you making me buy City of the Spider Queen when I all I was to do is plop down my XX.XX dollars and have all the material in one reference? The penny-pinching jerks at WotC is gouging us by making us buy all of the books to really understand everything about the underdark!" ... )Yep, that sounds about right. I'd rather not have to buy Book A and Book B just so Book A makes sense. And I think that it's kind of helpful that the same information appears in multiple areas. For example, the 3.5e DMG contains a lot of information about the various planes. Enough so that you can actually have planar adventures. However, if you want more information you can buy the Manual of the Planes. Same thing with the splat books. Sure, you can find some of that information elsewhere, but you can't find all of that information elsewhere, especially not compiled in one handy reference.
Kaya Kenobi 01-19-04, 01:26 AM	Originally posted by Geethree Yep, that sounds about right. I'd rather not have to buy Book A and Book B just so Book A makes sense. And that hearkens back to TSR's days where you needed 5 books to run one campaign.. Perfect examples is Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance.
Escef 01-19-04, 02:40 AM	Originally posted by Zherog I do think more often than not, the cross-publication is done simply to add material, and thus make the book longer. :bored: Sorta like the old 2e Complete Paladin's Handbook. they spent an entire chapter reprinting the paladin class, complete with unneeded charts to suck up space that they couldn't fill with meaningful text. I don't recall any of the other 2e Complete Handbooks reprinting the class description, but I also never got most of the later ones (Druid's, Ranger's, Bard's, etc). And Kaya, you and I both know that you don't need every published book on a setting to play in it. Granted, there is a sense of "not doing it right" when you lack all of the published material, but if you can't make the setting your own without shelling out for books you don't really want then the only logical recourse is a home brew. In the end, don't feel bad about playing in a published campaign without all the books for it, and don't make a homebrew if you don't have the time or inclination to do so. You can run a perfectly fine Forgotten Realms campaign using nothing but the FRCS. Adjust the magic level and politics to taste and you're good.
Zariell 01-19-04, 01:07 PM	Core 3.5...all the new stuff...guess where most of it came from? Yup! You guessed it, all the expasion 3.0 books.
Ringmereth 01-19-04, 10:13 PM	Too bad they can't just publish one monster reference book with all the material from all the Core rulebooks, splatbooks, settings, and everything else. Of course, the thing would be a few thousand pages long, weigh 10 or 15 pounds, and cost a few hundred dollars. Still, it's an idea.
Kaya Kenobi 01-20-04, 12:15 AM	Originally posted by Ringmereth Too bad they can't just publish one monster reference book with all the material from all the Core rulebooks, splatbooks, settings, and everything else. Of course, the thing would be a few thousand pages long, weigh 10 or 15 pounds, and cost a few hundred dollars. Still, it's an idea. But yet there's one monster in almost all the monster manuals, and he's a demon, devil, whatever.. One of those..
Ringmereth 01-20-04, 11:01 AM	Uh... I ment 'monster' as in 'really frickin' big', not 'monster' as in 'monsterous creature'. Sorry.
RhoxandRoll 01-20-04, 11:53 AM	Originally posted by Ringmereth Too bad they can't just publish one monster reference book with all the material from all the Core rulebooks, splatbooks, settings, and everything else. Of course, the thing would be a few thousand pages long, weigh 10 or 15 pounds, and cost a few hundred dollars. Still, it's an idea. I would put into a very large box set, maybe two or three, as opposed toa HUgE sourcebook.