Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Telis_the_Deadeye 10-15-05, 12:50 AM	D&D characters are full of stereotypes. Any good ideas on playing a paladin whos not a stick in the butt boy scout or a cleric whos not all "my god does this and my god does that" and who makes the paladin's stick look small? What are a few ways to kill these stereotypes?
Darrett 10-15-05, 12:53 AM	A lot of it is what the DM decides to do. Allowing Paladins of any good or neutral alignment is one step, provided their alignment matches closely with that of their deity. I generally play my Paladin as Neutral Good anyway, and nobody seems to mind. Clerics don't necessarily need to follow a specific deity, either.
TLomon 10-15-05, 01:12 AM	Best paladin I had in a game was a friend who played one with the Peasant Hero kit from 2nd edition. He had leather armor and a short sword. Truly was the most enjoyable paladin I gamemastered for.
rkr1970 10-15-05, 01:35 AM	A lot of it is what the DM decides to do. Allowing Paladins of any good or neutral alignment is one step, provided their alignment matches closely with that of their deity. I generally play my Paladin as Neutral Good anyway, and nobody seems to mind. Clerics don't necessarily need to follow a specific deity, either. I think what he wants are different ways to play a LG paladin, right Telis? Try mixing in stereotypes from other sources. Here's a few examples... Paladin - He's a mix of R. Lee Emery (the drill instructor from Full Metal Jacket) and Dirty Harry. He doesn't talk, so much as bellow when confronted with someone who is less than civil or cooperative. He curses worse than Eddie Murphy. He will kill anyone he sees doing evil. No trial, no discussion. Walk over, and by his god's will, SPLAT! If someone is acting in an unlawful manner, he grabs them by the front of the tunic and explains in his best DI voice the errors of their ways. Any resistance to this is met with an unarmed smackdown of non-leathal proportions. He's LG, but he's not very nice about it. Cleric - Try a televangelist. She worships Olidammara, but hides her worship of him by invoking "the smiling lady" or "the mistress of luck". The big O is a thief & con artist himself and probably doesn't mind so long as his portfolio is advanced by this cleric's actions. She walks down the street, preaching the praises of her "goddess", "healing" the "lame" (paid actors peppered into the audience), and generally conning folks in such a way as to bring a tear to Jim Bakker's eye. Loud, a very slight bit obnoxious, and charismatic as heck. Add in a level or two of rogue for the Cha based skills and be sure to take Perform (oratory). Rogue - Not a thief, but a treasure hunter. Think Lara Croft or Indiana Jones. 'Nuff said! Half-orc - With a low Int, but high Wis, he's Forrest Gump! Slow as the day is long, but insightful and able to see really stupid things for what they are. Barbarian - Imagine a grown up with AD/HD. Super AD/HD! This guy gets distracted from what he's saying halfway through the sentence. And he's got a temper, too. You've seen better behaved toddlers! Dwarf - Can you say 'Queer Eye for the Stone Guy'? Not just gay, but the biggest flaming queen you've ever seen. And it's all about the jewelry, as long as it's made of rocks or metals (he is a dwarf after all). "Oh my, those lapis earring are just horrid! You should try a nice granite or red marble with a complexion like yours, sweetie." Telis, have fun with stereotypes by grabbing them from other places and putting them where ever else they might fit. Even something as simple as a wizard who's a thief, but not a rogue, can be an interesting take on things.
Jabberwock761 10-15-05, 01:38 AM	How about a paladin who follows a different code that the cliche code of chivalry? As long as the paladin is working within their code of conduct, they are still being lawful good. A paladin who uses subtrifuge to accomplish his goals isn't being untruthful because he doesn't respect and value truth. He's just helping others by ridding them of pests he couldn't have otherwise legally rid them of. Another possible non-stereotypical paladin could be interested in loftier goals than simply impressing local peasants with a blinding smile, such as enlightenment (like a lawful good monk). I don't feel that nice, pleasant, or preachy represents good any more than it represents evil, it simply means the character is concerned with others, and willing to makes sacrifices for them. An idea for a non-stereotypical cleric is the role of the inquisitor. He doesn't preach about his diety, he simply kill, maims, or otherwise anyone who doesn't conform to his beliefs. He might talk about his diety as he removes his audience's fingernails, and he might be another stereotype, but he's not the stereotype you were sick of. Hope I helped!
Jabberwock761 10-15-05, 01:41 AM	...I don't feel that...preachy represents good any more than it represents evil... After that last reply, I think this could include me! :rolleye2:
deusxmachina 10-15-05, 01:56 AM	Maybe a Punisher-type Paladin would be decent. Not last year's movie version; The Dolph Lundgren/comic-book version where good and evil are black and white to the guy. If you're bad, (or he thinks you're bad), he goes off on you. Being lawful, he'd have to follow more rules than a different alignment might, but he could still be very aggressive in punishing evil (or what he thinks is evil). He's Lawful Good, but a twisted form of Lawful Good, taking "doing good" and vanquishing "evil" way too far. rkr1970's Paladin in his post is along the same lines.
rkr1970 10-15-05, 02:05 AM	Maybe a Punisher-type Paladin would be decent. Not last year's movie version; The Dolph Lundgren/comic-book version where good and evil are black and white to the guy. If you're bad, (or he thinks you're bad), he goes off on you. Being lawful, he'd have to follow more rules than a different alignment might, but he could still be very aggressive in punishing evil (or what he thinks is evil). He's Lawful Good, but a twisted form of Lawful Good, taking "doing good" and vanquishing "evil" way too far. rkr1970's Paladin in his post is along the same lines. Exacly, or in the words of said paladin: "What kind of a &^$$*ing idiot puts thieving scum in a room with other pieces of ^*&# who will only teach him to improve his skills at stealing? By knocking the ^%*%^$$ out of the little &^%*$%&*, I have given him a lesson in the more tangible and painful truth behind his actions. The little ^%$%^$%^ will think twice before trying it again. And that leads to a more orderly society for all, numb nuts!"
DrMorganes 10-15-05, 02:16 AM	Maybe a Punisher-type Paladin would be decent. Not last year's movie version; The Dolph Lundgren/comic-book version where good and evil are black and white to the guy. If you're bad, (or he thinks you're bad), he goes off on you. Being lawful, he'd have to follow more rules than a different alignment might, but he could still be very aggressive in punishing evil (or what he thinks is evil). He's Lawful Good, but a twisted form of Lawful Good, taking "doing good" and vanquishing "evil" way too far. rkr1970's Paladin in his post is along the same lines.Sounds a lot like the Shadowbane Inquisitor prestige class from Complete Adventurer.
Gedrin 10-15-05, 02:24 AM	Howdy, I heard tell back in town you boys caused a mess 'o trouble in the general store. I was passing through and figgured on checking things out. Folks back there are mighty upset over ya'll running off with the money they was gonna pitch in for the shrine. Town'd like t' have a priest around t' tend with the birthing and any sick that comes by. Why don't we all just head on back and give over what's their's by right. I'm pretty sure I can talk 'em into letting it slide if'n ya'll give your word to help build that shrine they're wantin'. Now, no reason to get into a tussle here, besides, my invisible wizard friend can bar-b-que a herd o' cattle with a twitch of his nose. Well, I figured at least one 'o you'd run. At's why trusty Silver's behind that hill. Now that I recolect, maybe I shoulda said something other than trample about takin' any runners down, but that's a lesson learned. We'll be headin' back as soon as you all get yerselves extinquished. Roy Silverglen: Cowboy Paladin, my next character. :)
rkr1970 10-15-05, 06:05 PM	How about a cleric who's based off those touchy-feely pychologists? "I understand your agression. If I had been born an otyugh, I might feel that way too, but I don't think, and I hope you agree with me, that attacking us is no solution." Instead of just turning undead, he might "try to help resolve the afflictions of the differently-animated and alignment-challenged by putting them at ease." The only problem is that I wouldn't make even a paladin atone for smashing that cleric's brains out... :cool:
Woas 10-16-05, 01:38 AM	I know, I'm so tired of the posts on the Wizards of the Coast boards, they're so cliche and stereotypical: Uh, my Paladin took a poo. Should the DM take away my powers? My next character is going to be a half-dragon, half-ogre, half-drow, half-telephone pole Nose Picker! I gave party a billion-shajillion gold pieces and now my character is better than everyone else cause I'm the DM! Wowwy wow wow! Check out my new spell, it's called win the game. Do you thini it's balanced? Sorry, I'm not really lashing out at anyone in particular. I'm just over caffeinated and can't stop typing or shaking in general. YAAAY!!
sooperspook 10-16-05, 02:41 AM	I once had a earthy, good ole' boy , ex-sargent paladin. Full of quiet wisdom(never preachy), forgiving of most faults and a little crude. enjoyed a good ale (tho he never overindulged) and a good meal was bliss (again never overindulged). Preffered to talk the enemy out of fighting but when it came to combat he was a monster. If you started it, he'd finish it. Everybody liked him, everybody respected him (players included) and everybody who knew him got out of the way when he got this gleam in his eye because he was utterly relentless in pursuing his foes. He was a blast to play. :)
Azual 10-16-05, 11:56 AM	I have a chain-smoking cleric with anger issues. Ever heard of Sam Vimes? From Ankh-Morpork? I used him as a model, including something iinteresting that Terry Pratchett said about him. Vimes has a little of the night in him, and so he uses his badge as a kind of shield to keep himself good. he knows all about the horrors of the world, and he has a very pessimistic world view, but that doesn't stop him from going out and doing his job. As a result, im playing a cleric with that same mindset. he isnt preachy, and in fact, he is less so. If he seeks converts, they are ususally convinced to his thinking by the characters example rather than his words. :)
rkr1970 10-16-05, 01:10 PM	I have a chain-smoking cleric with anger issues. Ever heard of Sam Vimes? From Ankh-Morpork? I used him as a model, including something iinteresting that Terry Pratchett said about him. Vimes has a little of the night in him, and so he uses his badge as a kind of shield to keep himself good. he knows all about the horrors of the world, and he has a very pessimistic world view, but that doesn't stop him from going out and doing his job. As a result, im playing a cleric with that same mindset. he isnt preachy, and in fact, he is less so. If he seeks converts, they are ususally convinced to his thinking by the characters example rather than his words. :) Interesting. I once played a cleric of Pelor that believed in the celebration of living. When he wasn't adventuring, he could be found drinking, wenching, gambling, smoking, and engaged in any number of other "sinful" activities. As far as he was concerned, if it wasn't evil, and noone was hurt, it's OK. On the road, he abstained from these pleasures so as not to interfere with his duties. The DM loved it but the players had trouble with a priest that wasn't stodgety and prudish. We even made a religeous sect up for him, "The Celebrants of Light." Their basic belief was that we are here for only a short time, so go forth, save lives, destroy evil, and enjoy the pleasures the gods have provided! One of the guys at the table gave a noticable shiver when we got back from a dungeon and my priest announced that he was heading for the brothel "to lay on more than hands!" It was a lot of fun to cut loose with a cleric and challenge everyone's views. :D
Telis_the_Deadeye 10-16-05, 02:16 PM	Paladin - He's a mix of R. Lee Emery (the drill instructor from Full Metal Jacket) and Dirty Harry. He doesn't talk, so much as bellow when confronted with someone who is less than civil or cooperative. He curses worse than Eddie Murphy. He will kill anyone he sees doing evil. No trial, no discussion. Walk over, and by his god's will, SPLAT! If someone is acting in an unlawful manner, he grabs them by the front of the tunic and explains in his best DI voice the errors of their ways. Any resistance to this is met with an unarmed smackdown of non-leathal proportions. He's LG, but he's not very nice about it. Interesting. I once played a cleric of Pelor that believed in the celebration of living. When he wasn't adventuring, he could be found drinking, wenching, gambling, smoking, and engaged in any number of other "sinful" activities. As far as he was concerned, if it wasn't evil, and noone was hurt, it's OK. On the road, he abstained from these pleasures so as not to interfere with his duties. The DM loved it but the players had trouble with a priest that wasn't stodgety and prudish. We even made a religeous sect up for him, "The Celebrants of Light." Their basic belief was that we are here for only a short time, so go forth, save lives, destroy evil, and enjoy the pleasures the gods have provided! One of the guys at the table gave a noticable shiver when we got back from a dungeon and my priest announced that he was heading for the brothel "to lay on more than hands!" It was a lot of fun to cut loose with a cleric and challenge everyone's views. :D I can *almost* buy the idea of a paladin who beats lawbreakers up. Not sure if it's LG, but the arguement can be be made for trying it. I'm not so sure about a good priest who has sex and drinks and gambles and stuff. If it's sinful, wouldn't that stop him being a priest? I thought a lot of the stuff he's doing is evil. Isn't it evil to fornicate and gamble?
rkr1970 10-16-05, 02:42 PM	I can *almost* buy the idea of a paladin who beats lawbreakers up. Not sure if it's LG, but the arguement can be be made for trying it. I'm not so sure about a good priest who has sex and drinks and gambles and stuff. If it's sinful, wouldn't that stop him being a priest? I thought a lot of the stuff he's doing is evil. Isn't it evil to fornicate and gamble? NEVER put your moral standards into the religeons in-game. Many things modern Christians (and others, for that matter) feel are evil weren't a concern in ancient real-world religeons. That means that they would hold even less sway in a fantasy environment. Even things that you think of as being an unallowable or "Hell-worthy" act can become a core practice in a non-evil religeon. Imagine a city that outlaws prostitution UNLESS you're a priestess of the love godess. The city guarantees taxes to be paid for the services and the temple gets a monopoly on business (this was an actual practice in Babylon and other parts of the world). In D&D things are even more cut & dry than IRL. Anything that promotes life is Good, anything that destroys life is Evil, everything else is Neutral. All those "sinful" (and I'm using that word because most people here understand what acts are considered sinful IRL) acts actually fall squarely under Neutrality. Unless it goes against a god's alignment or portfolio, there is no reason to say it's off limits to the priest. I actually have more of a problem with paladins commiting sins than priests. I have seen many paladins go into a room and kill monsters without so much as a "surrender or die". I even had a paladin lose his abilities for killing 2 kobolds that he saw walking down a passage (killed 'em both in one swing on the surprise round). It took him 3 game sessions to find out that they were LN and just out looking for food for their young. I put the onus of 10 lives on him for this slaughter since the kid starved to death without mommy & daddy. The player was PO'ed. "How am I supposed to know they're not like all the other kobolds?" I explained to him about this little thing called "detect evil". He wanted to know if that meant he had to use it every time he fought. I explained to him that it would be a good idea to use it before assassinating flat-footed living opponents. The crap I made him do for atonement... Hercules never had it so tough. :evillaugh (Mostly I was just PO'ed myself because the kobolds were there to give the party clues and advance the adventure.) Remember, Telis, that these are imaginary religeons of imaginary gods and have their own (imaginary) dogma. Or, if it helps, think of real-world religeons that allow sects or orders that are designed to perform acts that are sinful (if not outright heretical) and whose canon goes against the religeon's dogmatic teachings... I won't offend anyone by mentioning which religeons do this IRL, but most of us know... :rolleyes:
Orayn, Elvish Blademaster 10-16-05, 03:43 PM	1. Convince your DM to houserule Half-Orcs into being playable. Ask is they could add another stat bonus, or take off one of the existing minuses. 2. Make a Half-Orc Ranger, with no dump stat. Shore up whatever his new racial modifiers are, and make him nice and well-rounded. Play him like you would any other ranger, and have him go around proving people wrong about Half-Orcs. Get him a nice weapon for melee, and a composite longbow for ranged. 3. Congratulations, you've made Kurt, the anti-stereotype. Yay for Kurt!
rkr1970 10-16-05, 03:47 PM	1. Convince your DM to houserule Half-Orcs into being playable. Ask is they could add another stat bonus, or take off one of the existing minuses. 2. Make a Half-Orc Ranger, with no dump stat. Shore up whatever his new racial modifiers are, and make him nice and well-rounded. Play him like you would any other ranger, and have him go around proving people wrong about Half-Orcs. Get him a nice weapon for melee, and a composite longbow for ranged. 3. Congratulations, you've made Kurt, the anti-stereotype. Yay for Kurt! Half-orcs are core rules. You don't need a house rule to play them.
Orayn, Elvish Blademaster 10-16-05, 03:52 PM	Half-orcs are core rules. You don't need a house rule to play them. By "playable," I mean, "playable without sucking." Sorry, I was thinking Magic: The Gathering, where if something was fairly bad, it was "unplayable."
rkr1970 10-16-05, 04:02 PM	By "playable," I mean, "playable without sucking." Sorry, I was thinking Magic: The Gathering, where if something was fairly bad, it was "unplayable." I've seen lots of people play half-orcs that didn't suck. It's all in the player's skills, man, it's all in the player's skills. Look at how many people play awesome kobolds!
Meshakhad 10-16-05, 06:53 PM	I twist stereotypes and cliches, or completely ignore them. For instance, I once created an elven cleric. I explained his backstory to my DM: Me: When he was 75 (about 10 in human terms), his village was attacked by orcs. DM: Yeah, and he was the only survivor, etc. Me: No, the orcs lost. Four orcs charged into his house, ran into his mother. DM: Who, against all odds, beat them single-handedly. Me: Considering that his mom is a cleric/warmage of Corellon Larethian, the odds were probably in her favor. Now he believes that elves are militarily superior to all other races. Or at least they are on a par with other races. I also created a tiefling cleric. She had chosen neither to follow her ancestry, nor to reject it and serve good. She worshipped Xan Yae. Her agility and cleverness helped greatly, and her darkness ability fit right in.
Azual 10-16-05, 08:16 PM	Interesting. I once played a cleric of Pelor that believed in the celebration of living. When he wasn't adventuring, he could be found drinking, wenching, gambling, smoking, and engaged in any number of other "sinful" activities. As far as he was concerned, if it wasn't evil, and noone was hurt, it's OK. On the road, he abstained from these pleasures so as not to interfere with his duties. The DM loved it but the players had trouble with a priest that wasn't stodgety and prudish. We even made a religeous sect up for him, "The Celebrants of Light." Their basic belief was that we are here for only a short time, so go forth, save lives, destroy evil, and enjoy the pleasures the gods have provided! One of the guys at the table gave a noticable shiver when we got back from a dungeon and my priest announced that he was heading for the brothel "to lay on more than hands!" It was a lot of fun to cut loose with a cleric and challenge everyone's views. :D see, i chose a more noirish kind of good cleric. The gritty hero standing alone against a corrupt church. He isnt out to cleanse, rather to just keep to himself and clean up his naighborhood. :)
Azual 10-16-05, 08:19 PM	By "playable," I mean, "playable without sucking." Sorry, I was thinking Magic: The Gathering, where if something was fairly bad, it was "unplayable." thats why i hate Magic. Atleast, Magic with certian people. i was at a Ravnica Prerelease Tounament, and a guy acutally said Good Boy. TO ME! I damn near leaned over and smacked the guy.
Azual 10-16-05, 08:24 PM	I've seen lots of people play half-orcs that didn't suck. It's all in the player's skills, man, it's all in the player's skills. Look at how many people play awesome kobolds! its cause Kobolds are naturally cool. :cool: cha anyone ever played Kobold's Ate My Baby. Basically, you are a low level, weak arse Kobold and you have to kill an entire town. Oh ya
weasel fierce 10-17-05, 01:24 AM	A good idea is to make a character , then pick his class and whatnot. Make a personality, rather than a set of modifiers.
Lord Gwydion 10-17-05, 02:22 AM	A good idea is to make a character , then pick his class and whatnot. Make a personality, rather than a set of modifiers. To weasel fierce you will listen, yes, hmmm? Good advice. Now, how to make a LG character (of any class) not be a square with a bug up his arse about everything the other PCs do? One idea is to make him rather naive or oblivious. This guy is good, and lawful. He does what's right, and in the proper way at all times. The only thing is, he either blindly assumes that everyone else feels the same way he does about things (Watch the Mila Jovovich version of Joan of Arc for a good example of what I mean here), or that everything, even monsters, are Good until proven Evil. (Expect him to use lines like, "Why would I Detect Evil on the sleeping Mind Flayer? It looks peaceful enough. Probably doesn't mean anyone any harm.") Instead of the stereotypical LG character that charges blindly into combat with every single evil creature (or potentially evil creature), he requires proof that not only are they of evil alignment, but also that they are actively being evil at the time. The character fights against evil deeds, not evil beings.
AmanitaEata 10-17-05, 09:09 AM	D&D characters are full of stereotypes. Archetypes. The word you want is archetypes.
CzarGarrett 10-17-05, 09:52 AM	Archtypes and Stereotypes are quite similiar. But in a game where there's as much variation possible as D&D, there is no need for stereotypes. Taking a level or two in a completely unrelated class can help to break stereotypes. So can creating a persona. There is no problem with stereotypes if people are slightly creative.
rkr1970 10-17-05, 10:34 AM	Archetypes. The word you want is archetypes. No, I think he picked the right term. The archetypical paladin is the stunningly handsome gentleman on the white warhorse wearing shining armor and who stands ramrod straight. It's a vision developed from Sir Lancelot du Lac. The archetypical paladin is chivalrous, courteous, gentle, kind, and giving. The streotypical paladin is a hard-core, bible-thumping, goody-goody who stops evil with his sword in a 'take no prisoners' manner. He barks at the other party members for slipping outside of his LG world view. He is based on the vision of what a Puritan with a sword would do if allowed to do so by both church and state. I think of these guys as Puri-tyrranical. The difference here is between what a basic example of a paladin should be and what players envision when the term paladin is mentioned. And right there is another way for you to play a paladin, Telis. He's Lancelot, kind, just, and forgiving. (Just try to stay away from the man's baser flaws, eh? Maybe more of a Gawaine than a Lancelot would suit you...)
Devil Gnasher 10-17-05, 12:17 PM	Paladins- Patton, he wrote poetry and believed in reincarnation, he prayed on his knees and swore like a stable boy. He hid his tanks in a forest once and used them as artillery. On Christmas day 1945, one day after the Battle of the Bulge he said, "It's lovely weather for killing Germans.", enough said. Paladins- Macarthur also referred to derisively as, "Emperor Macarthur" due to the power had, and executed over post-War Japan. Paladins- Baron von Munchusen, watch the movie, The Adventures of Baron Munchusen. Wizards- Jamie Hynamin and Adam Savage Wizards- Michu Kaku
crossbow 10-17-05, 01:27 PM	Maybe try a humble paladin. The guy is lawful good, plays by the rules, helps out where he can but has a live and let live attitude. He’s likeable, friendly and always has a good word to say about everyone. If you aren’t committing evil or trying to do harm to another than he’s more than willing to walk away and let you do what you need to do. He has a very personal relationship with his god and a solid moral code that he lives by but he also realizes that he doesn’t need to force that code on anyone else. He’d rather talk than fight but if push comes to shove, he can take care of his friends and himself, in that order. This is the guy that’s always looking out for everyone else and has no problem giving his cloak to someone that’s cold, even if he doesn’t know the person. They are cold and in need and that’s enough. crossbow
OctoberRaven 10-17-05, 01:38 PM	D&D characters are full of stereotypes. Any good ideas on playing a paladin whos not a stick in the butt boy scout or a cleric whos not all "my god does this and my god does that" and who makes the paladin's stick look small? What are a few ways to kill these stereotypes? Paladins = Jedi. There are plenty of Jedi that aren't boy scouts. Just don't be pre-Jedi Luke Skywalker. Clerics (mostly nuetral or evil for this) can be using the divine powers for their own personal benefit, however stays true to the faith if only to keep in his diety's favor.
Azual 10-17-05, 05:02 PM	Wizards- Jamie Hynamin and Adam Savage there solving it with SCIENCE da da dum dadada dum dadada. I LOVE the Mythbuster. booyah. My dad says Jamie is a KIA, and it comes from the beret.
Telis_the_Deadeye 10-17-05, 05:25 PM	I like alot of these ideas!!! Thank you everyone. I'm making a list for future use. If you think of anymore, that would be awesome. Its greatly appreciated. :w00t:
Sephyrill 10-17-05, 05:42 PM	Oh, there are really a LOT of ways to play a non-stereotypical Paladin. I played a Paladin once who started as an Aristocrat, then became a Swashbuckler until her Paladin fellow told her that she (due to her "I want to be as bold as the heroes in my novels" ideals) would be suited perfectly for that Paladin job. Well, she was a very educated woman with little Wisdom and constitution but far far more intelligence and dexterity. She fenced with her rapier and her smite was the most elegant move ever seen by a Paladin :D She was not much the "this and that is right and must be done" stubborn kind of Pally, but very cunning, diplomative and open-hearted. Or try to play an elf Paladin. Though he can be... very annoying if you are "only a poor little human who needs Protection by the elder" in his eyes ;) Or an overromantic guy who falls in love with every nice girl running around and gets totally blinded by his romantic duties and who totally maxes out perform (singing) so he can impress his Ladies with his beautiful voice ^^ Of course he will sacrifice himself for every woman in need, regardless of the other party member's opinions :P LG and Paladin can have a LOT of variances
Orayn, Elvish Blademaster 10-17-05, 07:04 PM	Wizards- Jamie Hynamin and Adam Savage Definitely. Definitely. An ingenius wizard under a coating of pyromania. Brilliant.