Brainstorming up a... well a storm [Archive] - Wizards Community

Brainstorming up a... well a storm [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Vintar
07-24-06, 12:37 PM Greetings fellow board readers one and all. I have a few relatively simple yet far-spanning ideas that I think most will agree with - but I think it would be good to have a place in which to extrapolate.

As everyone (or at least virtually everyone) will heartily admit - beyond the first several levels magic-users are significantly more powerful than their mundane counter-parts - and the gap only widens with level. It also seems to be the general consensus that it is the casters that need to be nerfed as opposed to the mundane classes boosted.

Now, there have been many who have said that it is the spells that need to be nerfed. I do agree with this assessment when it comes to divine casters - they aren't all that bad at combat - why do they require spells of nuclear proportion as well? In essence - the more direct spells of the divine line need to be seriously nerfed - fluff-wise buffs make more sense for divine anyway. (though the buffing can get crazy broken if gone too far - maybe limited the number of buffs one vessel can contain?) The god is granting a speck of their power to their worshipper - if said god is going to smite their foes - why not just do it themselves?

However - where would D&D be without its arcane casters and their hugely devastating spells. However, in all the fluff, while they are extremely powerful and possibly surrounded by numerous servants, retainers, and minions, once closed in on without any sort of magical protection - they are done. I realize that this is intended to be represented by their d4 hitdie and no armor proficiency. However - a mid to high level wizard has enought HP to take several swings from the heartiest of warriors before falling.

Therefore, my proposal for those of the arcane is not to limit their powers in any way - but rather to lower their HP drastically - at least at mid to high levels. This would in turn make it much more important for arcane casters to be prepared defensively against threats. The option that I can think of off the top of my head is to have a wizard no longer gain HP beyond fifth level - maybe say the have a hitdie of d1 with no possible bonuses from Con or any other bonuses (feats etc) so that their HP would go up very slowly. To ounter this to a degree - quicken spell could only add two levels if the target is just the caster - this would allow the caster to erect defenses such as mirror image and stoneskin etc. faster so as to not get totally slaughtered once an opponent closes in.

This would in turn make it so that at least some of an arcane caster's spells each day would be devoted to defense - thereby limited their offensive capabilities without technically nerfing them.

This - as the title says - is just brainstorming. I would like feedback as well as any ideas that anyone else has.
SeptimusMagistos
07-24-06, 12:58 PM Absolutely ridiculous.(Besides, it's been tried and rejected)
Sarella Starshine
07-24-06, 05:30 PM arcane casters already got the shaft HP wise (1d4). if you take an average roll (aprox 2) for hps for a wizzie, thats only 20hps at level 10, not counting the con bonus, which 'most' wizards do not have, and if they do, it would be at most +1, adding another 10hps to have a 30.

a fighter at that level can easily do around 20-30 points of damage with a decent weapon (at that level they can easily have a +3, maybe a +4 weapon). with a +3 weapon, they can have a +1 and 2 types of elemental damage to it for an extra 2d6.

so, speaking theoretically, a human fighter with a +1 flaming shocking longsword and 18 str does 1d8+5+1d6 fire+1d6 electricity damage, or with full attack, 2d8+10+2d6fire+2d6 electricity damage, which, if i did the averages right is aprox. 30 pts of damage, which is enough to drop the above wizard (the one with average hps and +1 con bonus) to 0.

though, the wizard can do a lot more damage than the fighter (which is not in debate), the figher, if he/she can get in range of the wizard, will squish them very very easily as it stands, as i can atest to this in my previous campaign i was playing in where my wizard character almost bit the dust in almost every fight we were in (which has led to her overusing the very useful spell web :)).

there is no need to penalize the wizards HPs any further.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Vintar 07-24-06, 12:37 PM	Greetings fellow board readers one and all. I have a few relatively simple yet far-spanning ideas that I think most will agree with - but I think it would be good to have a place in which to extrapolate. As everyone (or at least virtually everyone) will heartily admit - beyond the first several levels magic-users are significantly more powerful than their mundane counter-parts - and the gap only widens with level. It also seems to be the general consensus that it is the casters that need to be nerfed as opposed to the mundane classes boosted. Now, there have been many who have said that it is the spells that need to be nerfed. I do agree with this assessment when it comes to divine casters - they aren't all that bad at combat - why do they require spells of nuclear proportion as well? In essence - the more direct spells of the divine line need to be seriously nerfed - fluff-wise buffs make more sense for divine anyway. (though the buffing can get crazy broken if gone too far - maybe limited the number of buffs one vessel can contain?) The god is granting a speck of their power to their worshipper - if said god is going to smite their foes - why not just do it themselves? However - where would D&D be without its arcane casters and their hugely devastating spells. However, in all the fluff, while they are extremely powerful and possibly surrounded by numerous servants, retainers, and minions, once closed in on without any sort of magical protection - they are done. I realize that this is intended to be represented by their d4 hitdie and no armor proficiency. However - a mid to high level wizard has enought HP to take several swings from the heartiest of warriors before falling. Therefore, my proposal for those of the arcane is not to limit their powers in any way - but rather to lower their HP drastically - at least at mid to high levels. This would in turn make it much more important for arcane casters to be prepared defensively against threats. The option that I can think of off the top of my head is to have a wizard no longer gain HP beyond fifth level - maybe say the have a hitdie of d1 with no possible bonuses from Con or any other bonuses (feats etc) so that their HP would go up very slowly. To ounter this to a degree - quicken spell could only add two levels if the target is just the caster - this would allow the caster to erect defenses such as mirror image and stoneskin etc. faster so as to not get totally slaughtered once an opponent closes in. This would in turn make it so that at least some of an arcane caster's spells each day would be devoted to defense - thereby limited their offensive capabilities without technically nerfing them. This - as the title says - is just brainstorming. I would like feedback as well as any ideas that anyone else has.
SeptimusMagistos 07-24-06, 12:58 PM	Absolutely ridiculous.(Besides, it's been tried and rejected)
Sarella Starshine 07-24-06, 05:30 PM	arcane casters already got the shaft HP wise (1d4). if you take an average roll (aprox 2) for hps for a wizzie, thats only 20hps at level 10, not counting the con bonus, which 'most' wizards do not have, and if they do, it would be at most +1, adding another 10hps to have a 30. a fighter at that level can easily do around 20-30 points of damage with a decent weapon (at that level they can easily have a +3, maybe a +4 weapon). with a +3 weapon, they can have a +1 and 2 types of elemental damage to it for an extra 2d6. so, speaking theoretically, a human fighter with a +1 flaming shocking longsword and 18 str does 1d8+5+1d6 fire+1d6 electricity damage, or with full attack, 2d8+10+2d6fire+2d6 electricity damage, which, if i did the averages right is aprox. 30 pts of damage, which is enough to drop the above wizard (the one with average hps and +1 con bonus) to 0. though, the wizard can do a lot more damage than the fighter (which is not in debate), the figher, if he/she can get in range of the wizard, will squish them very very easily as it stands, as i can atest to this in my previous campaign i was playing in where my wizard character almost bit the dust in almost every fight we were in (which has led to her overusing the very useful spell web :)). there is no need to penalize the wizards HPs any further.