Brew Potion... Useless? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Brew Potion... Useless? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ut-Napishtim
04-21-05, 04:43 AM I was thinking about this the other night. PC's can take Brew Potion which allows them to make potions and oils of any spell they can cast up to 3rd level. That's all well and good - but you can do the same thing with Craft Wonderous Item, just that instead they're called unguents and elixirs. Plus there's not really a level cap besides what you can actually cast. Taking that into account it seems the only thing keeping folks from doing so is the DM instituting a 'no custom items' rule - meaning that the only things you can make are those listed in the DMG by the requirements listed for each item. Barring that is seems that a PC spellcaster could just as easily make a 'single use' item that does the same thing, but would be instead a pill, lotion, unguent, solvent, elixir, berry, nut, piece of jerky, or candy bar.

Personally I think the guidelines for custom items in the DMG are well-balanced and I'm willing to work with players so they can make what they want. With that in mind, it seems like there's not really much of a reason to take Brew Potion when Craft Wonderous Item gives you so much more by simply changing the name from potion or oil to something else.
Tenzhi
04-21-05, 04:56 AM You could probably also make a wondrous item with charges that essentially fulfills the role of a wand/staff/rod as well. And what is a wand if not a multi-use scroll-on-a-stick?
Dartanel
04-21-05, 08:11 AM The solution I came up with in this case was to house rule Item creation feats.
Break them up a little and redistribute items by theme.

1. Magical Alchemist (Potions, oils, elixirs, pills, candy bars, and any single use use activated item)
2. Mystic Scribe (Scrolls, books, tomes, and any item that relies on written words to function)
3. Enchanted Jeweler (Rings, Amulets, Bracers, Cloaks, any item slot based magic item)
4. Legendary Armorer (Armor and Weapons)
5. Eldritch Imbuer (Wands, Staves, any charged item)
6. Thaumaturgical Engineer (Wonderous architecture, magic traps)
8. Arcane Animator (Constructs)
7. Wonderous inventor (Anything else)
Seeker95
04-21-05, 09:58 AM That's all well and good - but you can do the same thing with Craft Wonderous ItemIt costs more.
And you can't do it until you can take CWI.
And even then, only if your DM lets you.

Changing the item creation feats is fine.
But they work fine as written as long as the DM sets some guidelines.
Krelios
04-21-05, 10:10 AM If an item most closely resembles a potion, then you have to have Brew Potion to make it. If one of my players told me they wanted to make a "vial of liquid, that, when consumed, acted as though they had cast bull's strength," I would tell them that they needed Brew Potion, not that they had better change that to a candy bar.

...munchkins...
lugnut71
04-21-05, 10:20 AM Yes it is possible but look at when potions are most useful. Low levels. Look when you get CWI. If you want to buy potions until x level that is fine I'll save my gold and brew them.
Ut-Napishtim
04-21-05, 10:23 AM It costs more.
And you can't do it until you can take CWI.
And even then, only if your DM lets you.

IIRC the cost is actually the same (x50 for single-use, use-activated.)
Well CWI and BP are both 3rd level feats, so no big deal there.
That's pretty much the deal - obviously any DM who applies common sense is going to smack-down any PC trying to use CWI to make an Elixir of Cure Light Wounds, but there are some gray areas in there as well. What about a Bandage of Cure Light Wounds - when applied to a wound, tada! Of course it can only be used once - pretty much the same as a potion. I could see a player and DM getting into a pretty heated argument:
You have to take Brew Potion!
It's not a potion it's a bandage!
It does the same thing so it counts as a potion!
That's lame, you're just trying to 'nerf' me!

...munchkins...

He don't know me very well, do he?
:schemes:
Deviston
04-21-05, 11:25 AM IIRC the cost is actually the same (x50 for single-use, use-activated.)
Well CWI and BP are both 3rd level feats, so no big deal there.
That's pretty much the deal - obviously any DM who applies common sense is going to smack-down any PC trying to use CWI to make an Elixir of Cure Light Wounds, but there are some gray areas in there as well. What about a Bandage of Cure Light Wounds - when applied to a wound, tada! Of course it can only be used once - pretty much the same as a potion. I could see a player and DM getting into a pretty heated argument:
You have to take Brew Potion!
It's not a potion it's a bandage!
It does the same thing so it counts as a potion!
That's lame, you're just trying to 'nerf' me!

They changed it in complete arcane. they have "alternate potions" forms. you still need the brew potion feat, but you can make it (( cure light wounds )) as a tile (( which is what i have slid in my sleeves to break as a free action )) or as a skull talisman (( broken)) a magic fruit (( eaten )) or a spell wafer (( under the tongue ))

so . . . all problems solved. if it can be made normally as a potion, it is. just in another potion form.
Sinon
04-21-05, 11:40 AM What you need to do is look at the definitions of these things (potions, scrolls, wondrous items, wands) by how they do what they do and the game mechanics involved; not by what they look like or the spell they duplicate.

A wand is not just a "multi-use scroll."
They function differently. Scrolls are spell-completion items; wands are spell-trigger. Both require that the user have the spell on his or her class list.

If a character wants to craft a charged, spell-completion item that requires the user to have some knowledge of the spell effect, then he his trying to make a ward, regardless of whether it looks like a fancy stick or a lug nut. Use the rules (and the appropriate creation feat) for a wand. If he wants to have additional spells or spells that are above the level for wands, then that's a staff, and he is going to need that item-creation feat.

If he wants a single-use item that will provoke an attack of opportunity when used, but can be used by any one, then that sounds like a potion. Potion costs, potion limits, potion creation feat, even if it is magical wedge of cheese.
Baptor
05-05-05, 03:57 AM First off..Im going to have to agree with those who say something is wrong.
Its not though that Brew Potion is so weak as CWI is so powerful.
Leaving a "catch-all" category like that is bound to cause issues.
Just what is "catch-all" anyways?
Really, there are many WI in the DMG such as elixir of fire breath which are nothing more than one-use spells for anyone...we used to call them potions...in fact, Elixir of Fire Breath used to BE a potion (see 3.0 DMG) as were a few others.
Within our very own DMGs there is evidence of the establishment accepting what you say "no good DM" ever would. The helm of brilliance, is very much like a staff, as are many WI much like rods. The maul of the titans is a weapon, and the elixirs are potions.
The fix? Well, WOTC did us one favor in 3.5 when they made staffs use the weilder's DC instead of a fixed one, making a staff an obvious choice over a similar magic item.
And no, WI do not "cost more". According to the rules, I can make ANYTHING I want a wondrous item, be it spell-trigger, command word, or spell completion, so long as it is physically not a ring. Within the confines of the Core DMG are examples of WI weapons (the maul), charged items, and even blatant potion-like items. The only thing sacred seems to be rings, which they havent found a loophole for yet.
Players dont have to make this up, they have the DMG as a reference. Now, to be honest, I weeded out my bad players ages ago. But my good ones are still confused. Why take a feat that is essentially useless? I mean, if there was another feat that mimiked power attack but only worked on hammers...why would you limit yourself?
Indeed, Brew Potion and CWI are have the same level requirement, but one is limited to 3rd level spells and eventually becomes useless and the other is a never-ending smorgasboard (mp) of items.

The main problem is this, almost every item is limited in some way (all staffs are spell-trigger as are wands, scrolls are all spell completion, potions can only be level 3rd or lower) But they placed NO such restriction on CWI, whats even more unnerving is how HIGH level forge ring is, which makes sense given that rings can practically do anything. The problem is so can CWI. CWI either needs to have some sort of outrageous level req like 15th or be limited just like the other feats are.

Im going to do something to fix it in my own games, I just dont know what as of yet.
Gemstone
05-05-05, 04:30 AM smorgasboard (mp)
You mean Smörgåsbord, don't you? :D

Well, a potion can be used by anyone, while a wondrus item has to be figured out how to be used...
Baptor
05-05-05, 04:31 AM I think if I found a bottle with liquid inside, I could drink it without an Identify spell. :)
Tenzhi
05-05-05, 04:57 AM A wand is not just a "multi-use scroll."
They function differently. Scrolls are spell-completion items; wands are spell-trigger. Both require that the user have the spell on his or her class list.

So the difference is that one draws an attack of opportunity and the other doesn't. But they essentially do the same thing and have the same requirements to use them.
Baptor
05-05-05, 05:14 AM I think we are still missing the big picture I tried to lay bare.

The fact is this.
Scrolls can only be 1-use, spell-completetion items.
Potions can only be 1-use, standard action items duplicating spells of no higher than 3rd level.
Wands can only be a 50-charge, spell-trigger item with spells of no higher than 4th level.
Staffs can only be a 50-charge, spell-trigger item with two or more spells.
Rods can apparently do anything so long as its limited to spell-like functions.
Rings, yes, can do alot but the level requirement is the highest in the game and you can only have two.

But Wondrous Items...has a 3rd leve Req...and can do...anything you want. Continuous use, 1-use, multi-use, spell-trigger, spell-completion, command word, thought-activated, standard action, free action and you can have a virtual limitless amount, ranging from bracers, boots, gloves, cloaks, helms not to mention bags, household items, weapons, amulets, braclets, strange stones that hover over your head etc etc ad nausem.

Now which feat are you going to take?
Deviston
05-05-05, 08:56 AM Brew Wonderous Item !!!!
Seeker95
05-05-05, 11:04 AM When Baptor said that CWI is too strong, I feel he is right.
To combat this, I have limited CWI. It can do *anything* except make Potions, Wands, Staves, Scrolls, Weapons, Armor, etc. It can make anything except the things that other Feats make.
Deviston
05-05-05, 11:58 AM . . . thats how it is anyway . . . except when talking about elixers and the such, and helm of briliance (( but that is not considered to give AC bonus, its just . . . there ))
Seeker95
05-05-05, 01:55 PM . . . thats how it is anyway . . .Not really. Using the pricing table in the DMG, CWI can make anything that the other Feats can make. Elixers, the helm, bracers, etc are all examples of using CWI to duplicate what another Feat does.

In my campaign, bracers of armor and bracers of archery cannot be made with CWI. They require craft magical arms and armor. Elixers require Brew Potion. Etc.
Baptor
05-05-05, 01:59 PM Not really. Using the pricing table in the DMG, CWI can make anything that the other Feats can make. Elixers, the helm, bracers, etc are all examples of using CWI to duplicate what another Feat does.

In my campaign, bracers of armor and bracers of archery cannot be made with CWI. They require craft magical arms and armor. Elixers require Brew Potion. Etc.

Hmm that is insteresting. I considered another approach as well. In 2nd edition, they divided the "wondrous items" into a few categories such as (househols items, weird stuff etc) and I thought about also breaking down CWI into sub feats.
But I like the bracer Idea.
Seeker95
05-05-05, 03:59 PM I thought about also breaking down CWI into sub feats.Moving completely into the House Rule category, here are my Craft Item Feats:
Brew (Potion, Elixer, Salve, Ungent, one-shot “consumables”etc.)
Craft Stick (taken at minimum of 3rd, Staves cannot be made until 8th)
Scribe (scroll, spellbook, tome, libram, etc.)
Craft Arms and Armor “as is”
Craft Wondrous Item (everything else)
-All jewelry requires ranks in Craft/Profession: Jeweler / Lapidary / equivalent equal to the Caster Level of the item.
-Clothing requires ranks in Craft/Profession: Tailor / Equivalent (as above)
-Other items may require equivalent appropriate skill ranks.
-CWI cannot be used to make spell-completion items (ie scrolls, wands, staves or equivalents)
-CWI cannot be used to make armor, weapons, tomes, or other consumables

Lastly, regarding “price adjustments”
Restricted user customization *increases* (from market) the craft price by 25% but equally decreases (from market) the price you can sell it for without selling directly to an appriate customer.
Restricted user customization stacks, with each calculation made from base market.
Restricted frequency items are available in 5/day and 3/day for all items as priced.
Once-a-day pricing is available only in multiple power items.
Azual
05-05-05, 04:44 PM What about a Bandage of Cure Light Wounds - when applied to a wound, tada! Of course it can only be used once - pretty much the same as a potion. I could see a player and DM getting into a pretty heated argument:

Actually, any single use item (as listed in Complete Warrior) says trhat even 'tiles of Cure Light Wounds' are single use 'potion like items' and are thus restricted to brew potion.
Baptor
05-05-05, 05:32 PM Actually, any single use item (as listed in Complete Warrior) says trhat even 'tiles of Cure Light Wounds' are single use 'potion like items' and are thus restricted to brew potion.

Stone salve is single use...so is elixir of fire breath....and beads of force...all WI.

And btw, just what page number etc is this so call "restriction" on? I do remembering a passage in which it gave you the option to make tiles or wafers of potion-like items, but no where remembering reading a so-called restriction of such items to brew potion.

Furthermore, if such a restriction exsists, then the multitude of single-use items in WI section of the DMG contradicts it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ut-Napishtim 04-21-05, 04:43 AM	I was thinking about this the other night. PC's can take Brew Potion which allows them to make potions and oils of any spell they can cast up to 3rd level. That's all well and good - but you can do the same thing with Craft Wonderous Item, just that instead they're called unguents and elixirs. Plus there's not really a level cap besides what you can actually cast. Taking that into account it seems the only thing keeping folks from doing so is the DM instituting a 'no custom items' rule - meaning that the only things you can make are those listed in the DMG by the requirements listed for each item. Barring that is seems that a PC spellcaster could just as easily make a 'single use' item that does the same thing, but would be instead a pill, lotion, unguent, solvent, elixir, berry, nut, piece of jerky, or candy bar. Personally I think the guidelines for custom items in the DMG are well-balanced and I'm willing to work with players so they can make what they want. With that in mind, it seems like there's not really much of a reason to take Brew Potion when Craft Wonderous Item gives you so much more by simply changing the name from potion or oil to something else.
Tenzhi 04-21-05, 04:56 AM	You could probably also make a wondrous item with charges that essentially fulfills the role of a wand/staff/rod as well. And what is a wand if not a multi-use scroll-on-a-stick?
Dartanel 04-21-05, 08:11 AM	The solution I came up with in this case was to house rule Item creation feats. Break them up a little and redistribute items by theme. 1. Magical Alchemist (Potions, oils, elixirs, pills, candy bars, and any single use use activated item) 2. Mystic Scribe (Scrolls, books, tomes, and any item that relies on written words to function) 3. Enchanted Jeweler (Rings, Amulets, Bracers, Cloaks, any item slot based magic item) 4. Legendary Armorer (Armor and Weapons) 5. Eldritch Imbuer (Wands, Staves, any charged item) 6. Thaumaturgical Engineer (Wonderous architecture, magic traps) 8. Arcane Animator (Constructs) 7. Wonderous inventor (Anything else)
Seeker95 04-21-05, 09:58 AM	That's all well and good - but you can do the same thing with Craft Wonderous ItemIt costs more. And you can't do it until you can take CWI. And even then, only if your DM lets you. Changing the item creation feats is fine. But they work fine as written as long as the DM sets some guidelines.
Krelios 04-21-05, 10:10 AM	If an item most closely resembles a potion, then you have to have Brew Potion to make it. If one of my players told me they wanted to make a "vial of liquid, that, when consumed, acted as though they had cast bull's strength," I would tell them that they needed Brew Potion, not that they had better change that to a candy bar. ...munchkins...
lugnut71 04-21-05, 10:20 AM	Yes it is possible but look at when potions are most useful. Low levels. Look when you get CWI. If you want to buy potions until x level that is fine I'll save my gold and brew them.
Ut-Napishtim 04-21-05, 10:23 AM	It costs more. And you can't do it until you can take CWI. And even then, only if your DM lets you. IIRC the cost is actually the same (x50 for single-use, use-activated.) Well CWI and BP are both 3rd level feats, so no big deal there. That's pretty much the deal - obviously any DM who applies common sense is going to smack-down any PC trying to use CWI to make an Elixir of Cure Light Wounds, but there are some gray areas in there as well. What about a Bandage of Cure Light Wounds - when applied to a wound, tada! Of course it can only be used once - pretty much the same as a potion. I could see a player and DM getting into a pretty heated argument: You have to take Brew Potion! It's not a potion it's a bandage! It does the same thing so it counts as a potion! That's lame, you're just trying to 'nerf' me! ...munchkins... He don't know me very well, do he? :schemes:
Deviston 04-21-05, 11:25 AM	IIRC the cost is actually the same (x50 for single-use, use-activated.) Well CWI and BP are both 3rd level feats, so no big deal there. That's pretty much the deal - obviously any DM who applies common sense is going to smack-down any PC trying to use CWI to make an Elixir of Cure Light Wounds, but there are some gray areas in there as well. What about a Bandage of Cure Light Wounds - when applied to a wound, tada! Of course it can only be used once - pretty much the same as a potion. I could see a player and DM getting into a pretty heated argument: You have to take Brew Potion! It's not a potion it's a bandage! It does the same thing so it counts as a potion! That's lame, you're just trying to 'nerf' me! They changed it in complete arcane. they have "alternate potions" forms. you still need the brew potion feat, but you can make it (( cure light wounds )) as a tile (( which is what i have slid in my sleeves to break as a free action )) or as a skull talisman (( broken)) a magic fruit (( eaten )) or a spell wafer (( under the tongue )) so . . . all problems solved. if it can be made normally as a potion, it is. just in another potion form.
Sinon 04-21-05, 11:40 AM	What you need to do is look at the definitions of these things (potions, scrolls, wondrous items, wands) by how they do what they do and the game mechanics involved; not by what they look like or the spell they duplicate. A wand is not just a "multi-use scroll." They function differently. Scrolls are spell-completion items; wands are spell-trigger. Both require that the user have the spell on his or her class list. If a character wants to craft a charged, spell-completion item that requires the user to have some knowledge of the spell effect, then he his trying to make a ward, regardless of whether it looks like a fancy stick or a lug nut. Use the rules (and the appropriate creation feat) for a wand. If he wants to have additional spells or spells that are above the level for wands, then that's a staff, and he is going to need that item-creation feat. If he wants a single-use item that will provoke an attack of opportunity when used, but can be used by any one, then that sounds like a potion. Potion costs, potion limits, potion creation feat, even if it is magical wedge of cheese.
Baptor 05-05-05, 03:57 AM	First off..Im going to have to agree with those who say something is wrong. Its not though that Brew Potion is so weak as CWI is so powerful. Leaving a "catch-all" category like that is bound to cause issues. Just what is "catch-all" anyways? Really, there are many WI in the DMG such as elixir of fire breath which are nothing more than one-use spells for anyone...we used to call them potions...in fact, Elixir of Fire Breath used to BE a potion (see 3.0 DMG) as were a few others. Within our very own DMGs there is evidence of the establishment accepting what you say "no good DM" ever would. The helm of brilliance, is very much like a staff, as are many WI much like rods. The maul of the titans is a weapon, and the elixirs are potions. The fix? Well, WOTC did us one favor in 3.5 when they made staffs use the weilder's DC instead of a fixed one, making a staff an obvious choice over a similar magic item. And no, WI do not "cost more". According to the rules, I can make ANYTHING I want a wondrous item, be it spell-trigger, command word, or spell completion, so long as it is physically not a ring. Within the confines of the Core DMG are examples of WI weapons (the maul), charged items, and even blatant potion-like items. The only thing sacred seems to be rings, which they havent found a loophole for yet. Players dont have to make this up, they have the DMG as a reference. Now, to be honest, I weeded out my bad players ages ago. But my good ones are still confused. Why take a feat that is essentially useless? I mean, if there was another feat that mimiked power attack but only worked on hammers...why would you limit yourself? Indeed, Brew Potion and CWI are have the same level requirement, but one is limited to 3rd level spells and eventually becomes useless and the other is a never-ending smorgasboard (mp) of items. The main problem is this, almost every item is limited in some way (all staffs are spell-trigger as are wands, scrolls are all spell completion, potions can only be level 3rd or lower) But they placed NO such restriction on CWI, whats even more unnerving is how HIGH level forge ring is, which makes sense given that rings can practically do anything. The problem is so can CWI. CWI either needs to have some sort of outrageous level req like 15th or be limited just like the other feats are. Im going to do something to fix it in my own games, I just dont know what as of yet.
Gemstone 05-05-05, 04:30 AM	smorgasboard (mp) You mean Smörgåsbord, don't you? :D Well, a potion can be used by anyone, while a wondrus item has to be figured out how to be used...
Baptor 05-05-05, 04:31 AM	I think if I found a bottle with liquid inside, I could drink it without an Identify spell. :)
Tenzhi 05-05-05, 04:57 AM	A wand is not just a "multi-use scroll." They function differently. Scrolls are spell-completion items; wands are spell-trigger. Both require that the user have the spell on his or her class list. So the difference is that one draws an attack of opportunity and the other doesn't. But they essentially do the same thing and have the same requirements to use them.
Baptor 05-05-05, 05:14 AM	I think we are still missing the big picture I tried to lay bare. The fact is this. Scrolls can only be 1-use, spell-completetion items. Potions can only be 1-use, standard action items duplicating spells of no higher than 3rd level. Wands can only be a 50-charge, spell-trigger item with spells of no higher than 4th level. Staffs can only be a 50-charge, spell-trigger item with two or more spells. Rods can apparently do anything so long as its limited to spell-like functions. Rings, yes, can do alot but the level requirement is the highest in the game and you can only have two. But Wondrous Items...has a 3rd leve Req...and can do...anything you want. Continuous use, 1-use, multi-use, spell-trigger, spell-completion, command word, thought-activated, standard action, free action and you can have a virtual limitless amount, ranging from bracers, boots, gloves, cloaks, helms not to mention bags, household items, weapons, amulets, braclets, strange stones that hover over your head etc etc ad nausem. Now which feat are you going to take?
Deviston 05-05-05, 08:56 AM	Brew Wonderous Item !!!!
Seeker95 05-05-05, 11:04 AM	When Baptor said that CWI is too strong, I feel he is right. To combat this, I have limited CWI. It can do anything except make Potions, Wands, Staves, Scrolls, Weapons, Armor, etc. It can make anything except the things that other Feats make.
Deviston 05-05-05, 11:58 AM	. . . thats how it is anyway . . . except when talking about elixers and the such, and helm of briliance (( but that is not considered to give AC bonus, its just . . . there ))
Seeker95 05-05-05, 01:55 PM	. . . thats how it is anyway . . .Not really. Using the pricing table in the DMG, CWI can make anything that the other Feats can make. Elixers, the helm, bracers, etc are all examples of using CWI to duplicate what another Feat does. In my campaign, bracers of armor and bracers of archery cannot be made with CWI. They require craft magical arms and armor. Elixers require Brew Potion. Etc.
Baptor 05-05-05, 01:59 PM	Not really. Using the pricing table in the DMG, CWI can make anything that the other Feats can make. Elixers, the helm, bracers, etc are all examples of using CWI to duplicate what another Feat does. In my campaign, bracers of armor and bracers of archery cannot be made with CWI. They require craft magical arms and armor. Elixers require Brew Potion. Etc. Hmm that is insteresting. I considered another approach as well. In 2nd edition, they divided the "wondrous items" into a few categories such as (househols items, weird stuff etc) and I thought about also breaking down CWI into sub feats. But I like the bracer Idea.
Seeker95 05-05-05, 03:59 PM	I thought about also breaking down CWI into sub feats.Moving completely into the House Rule category, here are my Craft Item Feats: Brew (Potion, Elixer, Salve, Ungent, one-shot “consumables”etc.) Craft Stick (taken at minimum of 3rd, Staves cannot be made until 8th) Scribe (scroll, spellbook, tome, libram, etc.) Craft Arms and Armor “as is” Craft Wondrous Item (everything else) -All jewelry requires ranks in Craft/Profession: Jeweler / Lapidary / equivalent equal to the Caster Level of the item. -Clothing requires ranks in Craft/Profession: Tailor / Equivalent (as above) -Other items may require equivalent appropriate skill ranks. -CWI cannot be used to make spell-completion items (ie scrolls, wands, staves or equivalents) -CWI cannot be used to make armor, weapons, tomes, or other consumables Lastly, regarding “price adjustments” Restricted user customization increases (from market) the craft price by 25% but equally decreases (from market) the price you can sell it for without selling directly to an appriate customer. Restricted user customization stacks, with each calculation made from base market. Restricted frequency items are available in 5/day and 3/day for all items as priced. Once-a-day pricing is available only in multiple power items.
Azual 05-05-05, 04:44 PM	What about a Bandage of Cure Light Wounds - when applied to a wound, tada! Of course it can only be used once - pretty much the same as a potion. I could see a player and DM getting into a pretty heated argument: Actually, any single use item (as listed in Complete Warrior) says trhat even 'tiles of Cure Light Wounds' are single use 'potion like items' and are thus restricted to brew potion.
Baptor 05-05-05, 05:32 PM	Actually, any single use item (as listed in Complete Warrior) says trhat even 'tiles of Cure Light Wounds' are single use 'potion like items' and are thus restricted to brew potion. Stone salve is single use...so is elixir of fire breath....and beads of force...all WI. And btw, just what page number etc is this so call "restriction" on? I do remembering a passage in which it gave you the option to make tiles or wafers of potion-like items, but no where remembering reading a so-called restriction of such items to brew potion. Furthermore, if such a restriction exsists, then the multitude of single-use items in WI section of the DMG contradicts it.