Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Taeldrin Laesrash 04-17-05, 09:08 PM	I was looking back through the 1st. Ed. and 2nd. Ed. files, and I found a thing on Chronomancy. Unfortunately, it only covered how it fits in the settings (None of them positive). Now then for the big question: Who here has any rules for Chronomancy? I refuse to believe they axed it behind my back.
AzarKing 04-17-05, 09:12 PM	It's my opinion that the laws of time should not be tampered with :rolleyes:
RunningWilder 04-17-05, 09:51 PM	It's my opinion that the laws of time should not be tampered with :rolleyes: Bah! Tis a lazy DM that wilt not entertain the possibilities of temporal adventuring. There are a number of psionics powers that deal with chronomancy, even if it isn't your cup of tea. Check out the Bruce Cordell book Hyperconciousness. Its from Malhavoc Press and contains the Chrono Rebel prestiegeclass. It allows you to go back in time, but holds you to its Edict. Most changes fix themselves over time, while those that make history move in a completely different direction sets a timer going. The time traveller has about a week (relative to his own time) or time will move to remove him from it. Usually with massive amounts of very messy collateral damage. Also, Mongoose Publishing put out a book on Chronomancy for 3.0 and it is fairly typical of their work. I personally didn't enjoy it. You might.
Manyfist 04-17-05, 10:18 PM	It's my opinion that the laws of time should not be tampered with :rolleyes: I agree, it's fustrating enough to run a timeline going forward, it's DM suicide to make up the Past time line..etc. RunningWilder have YOU ever DM a game, that was well planed out? It's harder than it looks, and it gives DMs a Headacke. It's good they Axed Chronomancy, if you want a Time Mage go and play Original FF's.
RunningWilder 04-17-05, 10:47 PM	I agree, it's fustrating enough to run a timeline going forward, it's DM suicide to make up the Past time line..etc. RunningWilder have YOU ever DM a game, that was well planed out? It's harder than it looks, and it gives DMs a Headacke. It's good they Axed Chronomancy, if you want a Time Mage go and play Original FF's. If you use Chronomancy, you need to be fairly loose in your planning and a little spontaneous. And yes, I have DM'ed in a chronomancy game. It went very well, especially when I set up some basic rules of time travel. 1. Minor changes repair themselves. 2. Major events will come out right on there own. Kill the general and events will adjust to ensure that the right person is in place at the needed time. At best, its a name change in the history books, at worst a few extra battles are fought. This is a connection to rule one. 3. You have a personal time frame. You cannot adjust this to make yourself younger. You cannot come into contact with this time field (by touching yourself in the past) without an extremely nasty and terminal event. 4. If you are taking actions that could bring about major changes to the timeline, you will attract the attention of those that want time to keep it the way it is. They will not be happy. 5. If you do make major changes to the time frame, events themselves will shift to remove you from the timeline. These rules keep chronomancy as a method of exploration and a way to obtain lost knowledge. The best part is that it prevents players from deciding to make major changes in history. Most changes can be explained away with minor changes when they get back to the present, while any attempts at true changes will lead to a messy end. Also, I kept time travel difficult, with only high level spells or special rituals and gates to allowing it to occur.
Manyfist 04-17-05, 11:16 PM	If you use Chronomancy, you need to be fairly loose in your planning and a little spontaneous. And yes, I have DM'ed in a chronomancy game. It went very well, especially when I set up some basic rules of time travel. 1. Minor changes repair themselves. 2. Major events will come out right on there own. Kill the general and events will adjust to ensure that the right person is in place at the needed time. At best, its a name change in the history books, at worst a few extra battles are fought. This is a connection to rule one. 3. You have a personal time frame. You cannot adjust this to make yourself younger. You cannot come into contact with this time field (by touching yourself in the past) without an extremely nasty and terminal event. 4. If you are taking actions that could bring about major changes to the timeline, you will attract the attention of those that want time to keep it the way it is. They will not be happy. 5. If you do make major changes to the time frame, events themselves will shift to remove you from the timeline. These rules keep chronomancy as a method of exploration and a way to obtain lost knowledge. The best part is that it prevents players from deciding to make major changes in history. Most changes can be explained away with minor changes when they get back to the present, while any attempts at true changes will lead to a messy end. Also, I kept time travel difficult, with only high level spells or special rituals and gates to allowing it to occur. If you allow Time Travel even at High lvls, where's the Mystery of a Old Empire, when you can just go back in time and find it out? If there was no mystery we wouldn't be seeking it out, and if we do seek it out what's the point of knowing it? I would see VERY Limited Time Travel, Such as rewind one round, or Fast Forwarding one round..etc. I am trying to create a Campain world where every one forgot who and what they are, like mass amneinsa(sp?) so they have lost Technology still around and trying to pick up where they left. If some one time travels back into the past and remembers every thing, what's the point of continueing?
DudeMan101 04-17-05, 11:44 PM	When I first saw the title, I thought it said "Chromomancy", as in Quantum Chromodynamics, which is described in the equation http://www.fuw.edu.pl/~dobaczew/maub-42w/img83.png Then I thought, "Wouldn't that be kinda hard to implement? DnD has enough math as it is!" But no, silly me, it's just messing with the fabric of time.
caeruleus 04-18-05, 12:31 AM	In September, Sovereign Press is coming out with Legends of the Twins for Dragonlance. Among other things, it's supposed to deal with time travel (as in the Dragonlance Legends trilogy). I have no idea what sort of material it will have on time travel, but depending on what they do with it, you might find it useful.
CzarGarrett 04-18-05, 09:33 AM	When I first saw the title, I thought it said "Chromomancy", as in Quantum Chromodynamics, which is described in the equation http://www.fuw.edu.pl/~dobaczew/maub-42w/img83.png Then I thought, "Wouldn't that be kinda hard to implement? DnD has enough math as it is!" But no, silly me, it's just messing with the fabric of time. ::shakes fist:: Now I have a desire to find out an extrapolated version of that equation.
RunningWilder 04-18-05, 10:00 AM	If you allow Time Travel even at High lvls, where's the Mystery of a Old Empire, when you can just go back in time and find it out? If there was no mystery we wouldn't be seeking it out, and if we do seek it out what's the point of knowing it? I would see VERY Limited Time Travel, Such as rewind one round, or Fast Forwarding one round..etc. I am trying to create a Campain world where every one forgot who and what they are, like mass amneinsa(sp?) so they have lost Technology still around and trying to pick up where they left. If some one time travels back into the past and remembers every thing, what's the point of continueing? In line with groups that wish to protect the time line, they might have ways to block off extremely pivitol events and years in the time stream. As for old empires, you still need to find the knowledge you're looking for. Add in how different it is from your own time and social interations are going to be much more difficult, requiring time to get used to it. Stealing objects is dangerous, as you might raise the ire of those that protect the time line (and they don't just protect the past). You couldn't allow major time travel in your campaign world. The very way you built your world cleverly disallows it. At the same time, not everyone's campaign has a place for necromancy, evocation, healing magic or telepathy. Allowing someone to go back in time in Faerun's past can open up some really knew options (and cuts back on some of the higher level characters who you know can clean up your mess if it gets too big).
Purkake 04-18-05, 10:42 AM	1 more vote for chronomancy. I really like it, it is just tooo cool to make people age to dust in a few seconds or to make them jump a little froward in time.
Sakaki22 04-19-05, 12:07 AM	http://www.fuw.edu.pl/~dobaczew/maub-42w/img83.png Is that math or Elvish script!? o_O;; Anyway, I've only had one campaign where time travel was implimented. Someone chose to play a young-ish dragon, and found a way to turn themselves three age categories stronger. I'd personally either shy away from it, or if it's necessary, don't let players control it.
Shemeska the Marauder 04-19-05, 10:35 AM	When I first saw the title, I thought it said "Chromomancy", as in Quantum Chromodynamics, which is described in the equation http://www.fuw.edu.pl/~dobaczew/maub-42w/img83.png Then I thought, "Wouldn't that be kinda hard to implement? DnD has enough math as it is!" I love you. :D And w/ regards to Chronomancy... There have been time manipulating spells published in the past in DnD. One that comes to mind is the chronomantic magic present in the Forgotten Realms setting during the period of Netheril. However in the current era that prime material world's major deity of magic has restricted spells that breach the timestream. Secondly there was the 2e supplement 'Chronomancer' which included details for how Chronomancy worked and how it interacted on the various prime material worlds/settings of DnD at the time. For instance, Chronomancy was regulated on Toril by Mystra, warped by the Dark Powers of Ravenloft for their own amusement, and simply did not function within Sigil by the will of The Lady of Pain (in Planescape, now the 'core cosmology'). However the 2e Chronomancy supplement was not originally written by TSR, though TSR published it. I believe it was originally written by Mayfair games but they lost the rights to it when TSR sued their pants off in court and won. TSR then effectively cherrypicked from among the products they found themselves owning, and published a few of them, Chronomancer included. It was overpowered. Seriously overpowered. And it was pretty much a one shot thing that was never truly integrated into the DnD line.
RunningWilder 04-19-05, 02:07 PM	However the 2e Chronomancy supplement was not originally written by TSR, though TSR published it. I believe it was originally written by Mayfair games but they lost the rights to it when TSR sued their pants off in court and won. TSR then effectively cherrypicked from among the products they found themselves owning, and published a few of them, Chronomancer included. It was overpowered. Seriously overpowered. And it was pretty much a one shot thing that was never truly integrated into the DnD line. Thanks for the info Skemeska! By chance, did they do this by sending the book they wanted to write back in time to sue Mayfair, a la a certain book and an unfortunate cereal company?
ssvegeta555 04-19-05, 07:15 PM	Havin played Chono Trigger and Crono Cross (best RPGs evar!!!!) many times (at least 3 times each) doing a Chonomancy campaign wouldnt be too hard for me. But damn it can get confusing after a while! :eek:
RunningWilder 04-19-05, 07:49 PM	Havin played Chono Trigger and Crono Cross (best RPGs evar!!!!) many times (at least 3 times each) doing a Chonomancy campaign wouldnt be too hard for me. But damn it can get confusing after a while! :eek: Yup. You need to be really quick on your toes and keep immaculate records as to what the party does (depending how much they're screwing with the time-line. As a rule of thumb, you don't need to worry about making changes obvious (or even easy to notice/find out about) until they arrive at their "present" or a time later than the change. This gives you time to absorb the full impact of their actions and plan accordingly. Try to avoid having reptiles as the dominant species when they get back to their own time. Colossal kittens or methane based life forms are more likely to throw them for a loop.
Soel Griffin 04-21-05, 01:57 AM	However the 2e Chronomancy supplement was not originally written by TSR, though TSR published it. I believe it was originally written by Mayfair games but they lost the rights to it when TSR sued their pants off in court and won. TSR then effectively cherrypicked from among the products they found themselves owning, and published a few of them, Chronomancer included. It was overpowered. Seriously overpowered. And it was pretty much a one shot thing that was never truly integrated into the DnD line. Maybe that explains the Shaman book that came out around the same time. It didn't feel D&D at all... For those who like time-travel stories, there is a new movie called Primer that is very well done, and perhaps the best film dealing with the subject. By the way, RunningWilder, your time travel guide is really good and concise. If I ever deal with the theme, I will have to use this... :D
Tenzhi 04-21-05, 03:08 AM	Pfft. Who needs Chronomancy when you have the TARDIS major artifact?
epifreak 04-21-05, 03:24 AM	Hmmm.... could be an interesting big baddie in the game. The gods have prevented it b/c it's rather dangerous, but some wizard has stumbled upon the power to travel time and is ******* some very important people off in the process. *enter adventurers* The "wizard messing with powers he shouldn't" may be a bit overused (okay, alot overused), but the time-travel thing could add an interesting element.
Kalanth 04-21-05, 03:27 AM	I used to have that Chronomancy book, loved it but would never be willing to use it (as was mentioned, it was overpowered). If they buckled down, thought it out, I think Chronomancy could make a come back. I have played around with time travel on several occasions. Most times it results in going to the future and having the players discover a possible (and usually morbid) world, though in a Classic Marvel Super Heroes game I ran once they found the future to be a Utopia after the bad guys won. They eventually uncovered the truth about the future world, but it was interesting to watch them go about this perfect world and question why they would want to stop the BBEG. When it comes to going into the past, thats fine too, even changing things back there is O.K. Maybe its because the ideas I get for going back in time are more like the story of Raistlin and his persuit of Godhood versus the idea of venturing to the lost temple while it was active to ensure you plunder all the gold and magic items as they are made instead of having to search out the area. So I too take up the cry, pump life into Chronomancy because it needs some love too.
Anthus_Longblade 04-21-05, 11:37 AM	This is what immediately came to mind when I read the topic title: Chronomancy lies over the ocean, Chronomancy lies over the sea. Chronomancy lies over the ocean, Bring back Chronomancy to me! Oh bring back, bring back, oh bring back my 'mancy to me! Oh bring back, bring back, oh bring back my 'mancy to me, to me! *shot*
Klendarin 04-21-05, 05:15 PM	I'll also add my vote in favor of Chronomancy. Mongoose Publishing has a D20 book on the subject, and the Book of All Spells has a few in it as well. We used these and some others in a Greek myth themed campaign I ran last summer. A major part of the plot was the retrieval and restoration of the Kronostone, previously owned by the titan for which it is named. It was discovered in three pieces, each of which had power over either the past, present, or future. In order to maintain game balance in the face of time travel, we used two methods: temporal stalkers and the Greek Fates. Anyone traveling outside of their own time had a % chance to attract stalkers, which looked like Vargoyles but acted like Hounds of Tindalos from D20 Call of Cthulhu. Their piercing tongue attack left painless, yet gaping holes in a victim and drained a point of Con. When Con equals zero or less that person is wiped out of existance. Anyone deliberately trying to change the future by altering the past ran the risk of also attracting the attention of the Fates (whom myth tells us even had power over the gods). I had a table worked out, and based on the severity of the attempted meddling the Fates would intervene and bestow curses and that sort of thing. With these and similar methods mentioned already by others, the DM is able to maintain campaign continuity (or at least limit the amount of tampering), while still letting the PCs enjoy the thrill of time travel.
Azual 04-21-05, 06:17 PM	the guy who ran my local comic book store had a level one hundred chronomancer who was immortal and had been originally from 1st edition. He wasn't originally a chronomancer, i thinka wizard or other magic user. anyhoo, it was kind of broken-epic stuff that bored people get into.
Plastic Sun 04-22-05, 01:53 AM	You could easily just make a Chronomancer with a Sorcere with a spell list to fit that theme...
Taeldrin Laesrash 04-22-05, 09:58 AM	It seems like many people want it back. This sounds crazy, but maybe someone could start a petition for 3.5 Chronomacy?