Post/Author/DateTime	Post
konrad_the_tall 01-07-06, 07:23 PM	This thread is devoted to the rightful leader of any D+D party, the real man's choice of class, the class that says "Hey, I wear a belt of giant strengh, big leather boots, a lot of shiny metal and I don't feel insecure in my masculinity." I speak of course of the staple of any game*, the Fighter. Fighters have gotten a bad press lately that they are "underpowred" and "boring". These are the type of people who go jogging or have social skills! As my level 26 human fighter Konrad Blackspear and myself always say "Jogging is for girls!" These are a lit of ways you can level the playing feild and beat the Rouges at their own game. Sneakiness. The tent. or why its always good to have a wisdom score. One of the main problems faced by fighters is being attacked in their sleep by Rouges or Assasins. The answer is simple, simply follow these tips. buy a tent where the flap only does up on the inside and are located in the middle of the seem How this works is that anyone wanting to get acess to your tent will have to undo the flp first. If this is on the inside of the flapthis makes life difficult, if the flap is in the middle then that makes lif harder. If its at the top then you will have dificulties undoing it yourself if you are Small size or any of your companions are. If your being stalked by a halfling then try this. Putting the seem at the bottom of the tent flap is a big no-no. crouching give the rouge more cover and makes him harder to spot for whoever is on watch to keep guard. The middle of the flap is the best place to put the seem. Trust me. For the inside of your tent flap, invest in some high quality bells. Also one for the back flap. One thing makes stabbing a sleeping Fighter a lot harder. If he's awake and ready to kill. But you can't Hack if your asleep so to wake you up in the event of a nightime intruder putting a reel of bells along the tent flap. Unless the rouge specifies that he is trying to slilently opent he flap he is just opening it normaly and automaticaly sets of the bells. For our fighter sleeping inside hearing the bells is a DC 0 thing, made DC 10 by him being alseep. so your looking at a DC of around 10-12 depending on your Wisdom to wake up to danger. Lets see, first round rouge tries to open the flap (he doesn't know about the bells and unless he specifes he trying to be quiet he automaticaly fails his move slilently check) Second round, the rouge must make a move slilently AND slight of hand check to i) not make any noise, and ii) actualy untie the knot. (share your tent with somone with the use rope skill to make this more dificult) Third round. (Assuming that the fighter isn't already awake and kicking ass...) The would be asailent has to make ANOTHER slight of hand and move slilently check to peel back the flaps. Paint your guyropes and pegs black Nothing is funnier than a Rouge falling over. Nothing. This also if you DM is nice give you a slim chance at noticing he's outside your tent. If your worried about acidents around camp, just make sure your DM knows that your character walk around the tent at leat a few feet spare. get ahead- protect yours! If an Assasin gets passed your defences then you can always protect your throat with a flesh coloured** Elf Mail neck guard. Chain is most effective against slashing attacks which is the primary methord of cutting a throat. Clerical errors. For a tent buddies always pick the cleric. His high wisdom will be a great hand in hearing tent grabbers. Also healing magic is great in a tight fix. DM: Ok, the Drow rouge half cuts your throat, you will bleed for 5D6 damage per round until you get medical- Cleric: C.L.W! DM: Oh fudge! Thats all the ideas I have for now, I'll post if I have any more. If you have been offended by this article then please don't hesitate to PM me or stop being a baby. Either one is good. *Real men always play hardened monster kills no matter what genere it is. (a garden party in 18th century england) Woman: Oh Mr D'Arsey! you mus vist the Apple orchard with me in the spring! Real man with torn tank top and big gun: I'M GONNA BLOW UP THAT MOUTHER OF AN APPLE ORCHARD! (fires round into the air) Woman: Oh Mr D'Aresy! I am quite undone! **this is to make a Rouge try to slit your throat, but becuse of the armour on your throat you should be protected
Agent Cooper 01-07-06, 07:53 PM	"Bringing Down The Rouge!" -Critics are raving about the new broadway musical about a poor French courtesan who rises to become a major player in the cutthroat world of womens cosmetics!
SodaGuy 01-07-06, 07:55 PM	"Bringing Down The Rouge!" -Critics are raving about the new broadway musical about a poor French courtesan who rises to become a major player in the cutthroat world of womens cosmetics! :)
CryoSilver 01-07-06, 08:23 PM	How about this then? I (the rogue) place a stone with a Light spell on one side of your tent, and then go to the other side of the tent. Your sleeping body is now silhouetted through the canvas. I fire my poisoned crossbow through the tent. Neck protected? I shoot you in the head. Cleric buddy? Kill him too. Bells? Don't matter, since I never touched the tent. Same applies to the flap. Another solution: I use a scroll or wand and my handy dandy UMD skill to cast Silence on the tent. I now cut the flap with my dagger and fire my crossbow into your head. Don't even need light to do that with Darkvision, which, if I don't have, I can use my handy dandy UMD to get from an item. Need I go on? No, but I'm going to. Poisoning your food? You might survive, due to the fighter's high Con score, but it's a possibility. Just dropping a really big rock on you from above. As in: Fly spell+Shrink Item on a boulder=flat fighter.
Kresalak 01-07-06, 08:35 PM	Fighters have gotten a bad press lately that they are "underpowred" and "boring". These are the type of people who go jogging or have social skills! As my level 26 human fighter Konrad Blackspear and myself always say "Jogging is for girls!" Would Mr. Blackspear say dancing is also for girls? Because my fighter would take offense to that. Also, he would cut you with a scimitar 15 times per round. Heres another: Be an elf in a party with another elf (or Elan) melee person. While your human friends need 8 hours of sleep, you only need 4. So, one of you sleeps and the other is on guard. Won't the assassin be suprised when he gets mauled by your friend? And another: Be a Frenzied Berserker. Nothing says good morning like screaming blood fury.
TLomon 01-07-06, 08:47 PM	I was never aware there was a rampant problem with fighters being attacked by makeup products in the wilderness. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.
Seeker95 01-07-06, 09:10 PM	I was never aware there was a rampant problem with fighters being attacked by makeup products in the wilderness. Quite a big problem actually. It can be a real drag. :rimshot:
Always-Late 01-07-06, 10:01 PM	By the time a rogue can afford a silence scroll, a fighter can afford a stone of alarm or something like it. I figure this works well for low-level characters.
CryoSilver 01-07-06, 10:12 PM	Scroll of Silence = 150 gp (2*3*25) Stone of Alarm = 1,000 gp
ressurrector 01-07-06, 10:19 PM	By the time a rogue can afford a silence scroll, a fighter can afford a stone of alarm or something like it. I figure this works well for low-level characters. As allways, magic solves all problems.
The White Sorcerer 01-08-06, 01:33 AM	Be an elf in a party with another elf (or Elan) melee person. While your human friends need 8 hours of sleep, you only need 4. Better yet, be a warforged. The don't need to sleep at all.
Azerith24 01-08-06, 01:38 AM	Scroll of entangle=25gp Scroll of grease=25 gp tindertwig= 1gp Watching that damned fighter burn to death while struggling to get out of his supremely clever tent while its entangled and wreathed in flames = Priceless
Fox Lee 01-08-06, 01:44 AM	Would Mr. Blackspear say dancing is also for girls? Because my fighter would take offense to that. Also, he would cut you with a scimitar 15 times per round. So would mine. She would never waste any time doing something stupid like dancing! XP
Always-Late 01-08-06, 01:47 AM	Scroll of Silence = 150 gp (2*3*25) Stone of Alarm = 1,000 gpScroll of Silence = Expendable Stone of Alarm = Not Expendable Ideally, a rope trick works better anyway.
Vanity_Kills 01-08-06, 03:51 AM	Scroll of entangle=25gp Scroll of grease=25 gp tindertwig= 1gp Watching that damned fighter burn to death while struggling to get out of his supremely clever tent while its entangled and wreathed in flames = Priceless Awww...you stole my idea!
WizO_Cat 01-08-06, 02:44 PM	Let's remember to keep all of the posts on the topic of the thread. Thanks.
lord_blackfang 01-08-06, 03:15 PM	The topic being how to protect your fighter from being killed in his sleep by evil lipstick through the clever use of tent flaps. The mental imagery is just priceless.
konrad_the_tall 01-08-06, 05:18 PM	If your aplying Rouge to your lips then your doing it the wrong way. Rouge goes on the cheek. Anyway, An asailent trying to shoot somone though a tent flap would have a hard job becuse of the thick fabric would take the bot off course, thus not allowing a death attack in my opinion. A siolet of a head would be very tricky as in a tent their are bags, armour and wepon scattered around. You are not going to get a clear siloet. No way in any of the nine hells. Except in reverse hell where Drow are all individual and entertaining to roleplay with and bards are the strongest class, anyway. So you've made it into the tent, the lighing is poor, you won't be able to tell my neck protection is their as I specified it was flesh coloured, If you just say "coupe de grace" then it should be assume your just slitting my throat as per the Rogue's noraml modus operandi. I have to admit I did chuckle when I though of somone casting slience on the tent. Ok the tent makes no noise, however the bells wake up every one in the whole world. You need line of sight to slience somthing, and you can't see though tarpolin. If somone is casting a load of scrolls then shouldn't the sentery be alered? some quietly talking is a DC2 listen check to hear. -10 for being alseep and -3 for the tent fabric meens I have three (the number of scrolls you want to cast) DC15 listen checks. The cleric in the tent with me should hear it and wake me up before the tent is very on fire. Oh and decanter of endless water. Never leave home without it. Casting light on a stone means that the person on watch duty sees you and yells out "To Arms! To arms!" Real stealthy dude. If somone can attack with a scimiter 15 times per round at ANY level then your playing a pretty messed up and possibly boring game. No offence ment. And dancing is perfectly acptable provided you do it in a thoughly manly way. Now apart from pointing out my gramatical crappiness does anyone have anything constructive to say about defending oneself from Rogues?
Kresalak 01-08-06, 05:30 PM	[...]If somone can attack with a scimiter 15 times per round at ANY level then your playing a pretty messed up and possibly boring game. No offence ment. And dancing is perfectly acptable provided you do it in a thoughly manly way.[...] I can only do it once per day :weep: . Level 10 ability of the Dervish, double your number of attacks per round once per day. 4 main hand+3 off hand*2=14, +1 haste=15. So dancing in a way that involves mass killing is ok then? Again I say, be a Frenzied Berseker. When the rogue sneak attacks you, you make a Will save or go into a Frenzy. Fail this save, and you can rip the rogue apart. Literally. Or, invest in a level 8 wizard. Have him cast Rope Trick, and you have a secure place to rest.
konrad_the_tall 01-08-06, 05:54 PM	Nice. but I think that combining it with an offhand weapon is over balenced. But each to their own. Anyway lets get back on topic. Beat the Rogue. Any sugestions.
ressurrector 01-08-06, 06:05 PM	Nice. but I think that combining it with an offhand weapon is over balenced. But each to their own. Anyway lets get back on topic. Beat the Rogue. Any sugestions. Magic, characters that aren't weak vs. rogues. Fort saves, high HP, good dext (rogues can do a 1 person flank if they outroll you on a dext check IIRC).
Ged Coldplain 01-10-06, 03:42 AM	Actually, silence is usually cast on the rogue himself prior to sneaking into the enemy lair, granting him a 20ft. radius area of magical silence. If any character of equal level wants to kill a sleeping character, the sleeping character is dead unless the assailant is completely useless.
melp 01-10-06, 05:00 AM	Anyone notice how this thread puts the Fighter in his worst position: Unarmored or poorly rested & unequiped vs. the Rogue at his best: undefined preparation? The best part is that, to some degree, he's given the Fighter a, uh, fighting chance.. Let's see the reverse be true: Fighter corners a Rogue in an open, dead-end alley where he's cornered and the only escape is the 5-foot wide pass that the fighter blocks. Rogue brought down pretty easy there... For all those high level, magic trickery, Fighter-be-stabbied, Rogue winning situations, I say: Separate plane of existance. What's better to protect yourself from that darn rogue than being in a place where he can't get to? Or, at the very least, will have a hard time finding you. Forget dragons, demons, or lack of oxygen, I'm avoiding that tricksy rogue!!
Derren S. 01-10-06, 05:18 AM	Let's see the reverse be true: Fighter corners a Rogue in an open, dead-end alley where he's cornered and the only escape is the 5-foot wide pass that the fighter blocks. Rogue brought down pretty easy there... Hmm. Rogue tumbels through the fighters space and then outruns him as he isn't slowed down by armor like thie fighter is?
melp 01-10-06, 01:47 PM	Hmm. Rogue tumbels through the fighters space and then outruns him as he isn't slowed down by armor like thie fighter is? Ha! One of my favorite things to do with the high dex characters I played. It gave my DM a headache for at least 10 sessions before he figured out how that move can be countered. The DM finally got smart and started giving my opponents a brain, having them use nets, web-like spells, reach weapons, and feats like Improved trip. A harpoon was the cruelest of inventions for his Fighter. I tumbled through and, well, I got stuck...
Sae Cael Oanar 01-10-06, 02:12 PM	this might deal with the ass-assin, but not the axe-assin. when trug comes by with an axe bigger than the cleric you have to protect you, i dont think those bells are gonna do much good.
konrad_the_tall 01-10-06, 03:43 PM	Actually, silence is usually cast on the rogue himself prior to sneaking into the enemy lair, granting him a 20ft. radius area of magical silence. If any character of equal level wants to kill a sleeping character, the sleeping character is dead unless the assailant is completely useless. The only solution is to make the bells magical. Any idea on the price of bells that cannot be magicaly scilenced? What about a trip wire on the tent that can be hooked on one side? just be sure to tell the DM that your steping over the trip wire when you get out the tent. slience is an overpowered spell anway. if it does exist it should only be aplicable to one object at touch range and not in a twenty foot radius. And it should be a level 1 spell. Thats just silly how it is now. Thats game punishing me for being creative.
RogerWilco 01-10-06, 03:54 PM	If I'm in a tent somewhere as a fighter, I'd be more worried about an Orc Horde or a flock of Yrrtacks passing in the night. As for suggestions: be 2 elves with rings of sustenance, have the wizard cast alarm (standard practise in my party), get a pet (geese are nice guardians), the various Leomund spells might come in handy too.
JoshuaWilhoyte 01-10-06, 04:09 PM	Isn't Silence an Emanation? In which case, if the Fighter has secured his tent as well as he thinks he has, then the Silenced Rogue has no Line of Effect to the bells inside the tent, thus ths Silence spell won't silence the bells.
Seeker95 01-10-06, 04:21 PM	In re-examining the original post... I think it is a great idea. It tells me who to kick out of my playing group for being a jerk. If someone wants to kill another PC this bad, they can go looking for another group.
konrad_the_tall 01-10-06, 06:19 PM	So I can't be in your group? Or are you saying I'm not allowed to defend myself against NPC Rogues? I had to kill a hell of a lot of monsters to get to level 26, and I'm sure as hell not going to let him be killed by some girly Rogue. I don't want the same thing to happen to othe real men.
LurkerBeneath 01-10-06, 07:38 PM	http://archive.gamespy.com/comics/nodwick/gamespyarchive/gspynod151.html -LB
Seeker95 01-10-06, 08:18 PM	So I can't be in your group? Or are you saying I'm not allowed to defend myself against NPC Rogues?If it's an NPC rogue, you're not going to stop him at all. The DM determines the time and place of the interaction. And unless the DM is simply gunning for you (in which case you need to find a new DM), the rogue coming after you is probably not going to fall for any of the tricks you described, since he watched you set it all up in the first place. If your beef is with a PC rogue, then either you or the player of the rogue need to realize this is a game for multiple players, on the same team. If the rogue in your party is offing other PCs, the player is going to find a new group.
Always-Late 01-10-06, 09:41 PM	What the hell. If you can already buy a scroll of silence, buy an explosive runes spell and put it on a pair of blinders. Sleep with the blinders on. Someone comes to stab you = 6d6 damage. Have a nice day. Cheaper than the scroll of silence, anyway.
Dark Stryke 01-10-06, 10:16 PM	"Other real men"? Anyone else find this a really amusing statement on a board about a fantasy game? That rogue, or "rouge" is about as real as your fighter. Also, by the time you're level 26, you should have much better protection than alarm bells. You should have the wizard set traps that will rain flaming (or icy, shocking, really-loud, acidy, or any combination of those) death on any one or anything that comes near your camp. You should be able to make it so that a chipmunk can't get into your camp. Furthermore, a rogue shouldn't be able to kill you with one sneak attack at level 26. He sneak attacks you, you wake up, grin in a "manly" way, and proceed to choke him to death with a few good grapple rolls. Or, you fumble for your magical, flaming death-inducing sword, and hack him into pieces. Make sure to call him a n00b as he dies. No rogue should solo a group of level 26 adventurers. Finally, if your DM is sending enough rogues at you in your sleep that this is an issue at all, you should find a new DM. Petty DMs that only attack your characters at thier weakest should be shot with a hammergun. A few times is okay, but if you start needing alarm bells and sharing a bunk with the cleric, he's gone too far. And I say this as both a DM and a player. Best of luck with your rogue problem. Oh, and they can be "real men", too. As real as can be in a fantasy game. Sneak attack does not equal cowardly. It shows the intelligence to strike where it hurts, instead of hacking each other to pieces like "real" men.
Always-Late 01-10-06, 10:40 PM	If you're 26th level, why the hell do you still care about a tent? Why not sleep in a private dimensionally locked demiplane with 100 set save-or-take-thousands-of-damage spells as defense? We really need a set level to discuss things without it becoming stupid. First Level: Sleep in the common room of an inn. Third Level: Buy some dogs. Fifth Level: Buy an explosive runes spell. Seventh Level: Get a cohort that can cast alarm. Tenth Level: Get a cohort that can cast rope trick. Fifteenth Level: Invest in Heavy Fortification. Twentieth Level: Sleep in your own freaking demiplane of existence.
konrad_the_tall 01-11-06, 03:34 AM	Why would a rogue be watching me set up camp? He can't see though the tent walls! And why would I want to sleep in my own private plane of existance? I could do the manlier thing and sleep in a tent and kill and cook my own food. Mmmm. Manly. :fight!: These are ment to be tricks that only fighters can use, If you have your wizard who can cast Splingo's spell of of unessercery powergaming thats fine. But what if you don't have a spellcaster? what if your on your own? what if your cube of stupidness gets stolen? What if your low level and need to accualy have a way to defend yourself? I didn't get to level 26 by not being prepared whipersnappers!
SnowbearK 01-11-06, 03:56 AM	Why would a rogue be watching me set up camp? He can't see though the tent walls! And why would I want to sleep in my own private plane of existance? I could do the manlier thing and sleep in a tent and kill and cook my own food. Mmmm. Manly. First off, the rogue is watching you set up camp because the very first rule of assassination is KNOW YOUR DAMN TARGET. :rolleyes: Anyone who premeditates murder and has the presence of mind to determine that it would be a bad thing to be caught (such as by the Fighter himself or his buddies), understands that the more time they spend observing the subject, the better their chances of minimizing personal risk. Secondly -- on a personal level -- dude, you've got some serious issues if that's what you think is "manly." What you're proposing as "manly" is utter stupidity at it's finest. Or worst, however you like to phrase it.
Thanqol 01-11-06, 03:57 AM	How would a fighter somehow end up alone, without his cube of stupidness, cohorts, doggies, or anything else? If that happens at level 26 he just goes the night without sleep, takes a measly -2 or something for being fatigued (or buys Armour of the Unending Hunt which means immunity to fatigue), and gets back to his group. Manly men don't even use tents! Manly men walk all night without getting winded! Manly!