Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Edymnion 01-11-05, 10:43 PM	This is a link to the Search results for the old Fold Up Paper Minis feature that used to be on WotC. (http://search.atomz.com/search/?sp-q=paper+models&sp-a=sp10025a73&sp-p=all&sp-f=ISO-8859-1&sp-k=Dungeons+and+Dragons&sp-t=dnd) Many of you will remember these articles, because they were exceedingly cool. Just try to load one of the articles now. The old archived page is still there, the links are still valid, and you can still download the files for free. HOWEVER. The instant the page finishes loading, it immediantly loads THIS PAGE (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/179270000). Okay, the foldups were so cool, WotC release them as a book to buy, I can see that, its a good idea. What I find downright insulting is that the archived pages automatically forward you to the "Buy my book!" page. Yes, you can hit Stop on your browser and still have access to the material for free, the way it was intended, so they can cover their butts by saying it's still there. I just find it dispicable that they won't even let you download these things fair and square any more. I mean, the book itself is only $10, and you'd spend more than that on ink and cardstock to print all of these things out yourself. I call Foul Play on this. --+Edit+-- Okay, they're taking the files down completely and the Search engine and all that just haven't caught up. Thats not so bad, at least they aren't pulling the bait and switch intentionally.
ydirbut 01-11-05, 11:22 PM	This is a link to the Search results for the old Fold Up Paper Minis feature that used to be on WotC. Many of you will remember these articles, because they were exceedingly cool. Just try to load one of the articles now. The old archived page is still there, the links are still valid, and you can still download the files for free. HOWEVER. The instant the page finishes loading, it immediantly loads THIS PAGE. Okay, the foldups were so cool, WotC release them as a book to buy, I can see that, its a good idea. What I find downright insulting is that the archived pages automatically forward you to the "Buy my book!" page. Yes, you can hit Stop on your browser and still have access to the material for free, the way it was intended, so they can cover their butts by saying it's still there. I just find it dispicable that they won't even let you download these things fair and square any more. I mean, the book itself is only $10, and you'd spend more than that on ink and cardstock to print all of these things out yourself. I call Foul Play on this. So, from what I understand, you are angry because WOTC, a publically owned corporation,is, on their website, as you are trying to download FREE material, trying, not even forcing you, to buy something for 10$.
Reinforcements 01-11-05, 11:32 PM	Let me see if I understand... you are angry because, after freely offering something via website that by your own admission is "exceedingly cool," WotC goes, "Hey, here's a similar thing that you can buy, if you want to. It's only $10."
Edymnion 01-11-05, 11:45 PM	No, I'm angry because they are screwing with the HTML to make it where you can't download the free content from the site normally, but so they can point to it and say its still there. You simply can't load those pages fully without it jumping to another page. Selling a book of the foldouts is fine, its a good idea actually. But making the originals nearly innaccessable just so you can say "No, we still have those articles on our website so you can still get them for free" as a "lets cover our butt" move is not fine. Alter the pages to put a link to the book on them, have a popup window with the "Buy my book!" page in it, but don't do this. For many users (the ones that are barely proficient in using the internet in the first place), the material might as well not even be there, which is apparently what WotC is counting on. You don't find it the least be insulting that they are trying to trick people into buying something they claim to still be giving away for free?
SnowbearK 01-12-05, 12:01 AM	Now Edy, I know you're aware of the search function... ;) :D There's been at least a half dozen threads on this already. Get hopping mad if you like, the active response from WotC will likely be to simply stop providing the materials free, period. It's their stuff, it's their site, they can do as they will with it. Neither the free stuff nor the map folio itself is really worth it, compared to World Works.
Ranger REG 01-12-05, 03:31 AM	No, I'm angry because they are screwing with the HTML to make it where you can't download the free content from the site normally, but so they can point to it and say its still there. You simply can't load those pages fully without it jumping to another page. Selling a book of the foldouts is fine, its a good idea actually. But making the originals nearly innaccessable just so you can say "No, we still have those articles on our website so you can still get them for free" as a "lets cover our butt" move is not fine. Alter the pages to put a link to the book on them, have a popup window with the "Buy my book!" page in it, but don't do this. For many users (the ones that are barely proficient in using the internet in the first place), the material might as well not even be there, which is apparently what WotC is counting on. You don't find it the least be insulting that they are trying to trick people into buying something they claim to still be giving away for free? Is it safe to assume you posted this rant AFTER you contacted WotC about "errors" on the web site, if any? *Yawns* :bored:
dragonhand777 01-12-05, 03:45 AM	I think I understand what Edymnion is saying for one simplem reason. I've seen other rants about this very thing at other sites. In fact, those other ranters were claiming they are no longer availible for free-period. I guess they are if you know what your looking for (or how to look for it). :eek:
Thorak 01-12-05, 07:38 AM	Yes, they're providing free material. Where does that say they have to make it easy or convenient to get? You get what you pay for. If it's free, expect to get nothing or have it not be worth the bother. If it does turn out to be worth the bother, be pleasantly surprised, or suspect (like the SRD, regarding 3rd party publishers) that there's another reason for them to be giving away free stuff. Like car dealerships saying you get a toaster free for buying a car. Yeah, you get a 25$ toaster for free. When you pay 4000$ over cost for a new car. Good deal, that. Besides, if it doesn't cost you anything, where do you have room to complain? It's not like you're losing anything, like the money you paid for the material.
Demon Lightfoot 01-12-05, 09:18 AM	If someone offers you something "free", but then they make it difficult or impossible to get -- say, they hold it just out of reach or slam a door in your face which you have to break down, then it's not really "free", now, is it, since you have to expend extra time and effort to get the "free" stuff.
Ravens Claw 01-12-05, 09:36 AM	Why don't you ask customer service very nicely to send you an email with the article as an attachment, and that sending the link is no good because it has a problem. Cheers
Draggah 01-12-05, 11:12 AM	Who says that just because the gave it away free once, that they have to continue to do so forever, or make it free of strings? It was free and easily accesable for awhile, that's more than most companies would do. Even if they did give away for awhile, it still belongs to them, so if they decide to stop giving it away, start selling it, or destroy the files outright, they are well within their rights to do so. You should be gratefull that it was ever free at all (and apparently still is if I read your post correctly). I just don't understand some people's ingratitude, I mean, they DON'T even have to give ANYTHING away for free if they don't want to. Grow up people. I mean really, if you get a free sample of cheese dip in the supermarket, do you expect them to give you some every time you go there forever??
Wood Snake 01-12-05, 12:00 PM	After a bit of research, I think I understand the issue Edy is having. The clumsy redirct is a bit annoying, but hardly a new low. The set up is a bit misleading, esp. for people who are used to downloading from the archives. The manner in which they 'suggest' the book is a bit heavy handed, and I would suggest either eliminating the archive section of the fold ups, or placing a link to the book on the archive site. Either give me the choice, or don't, but don't lead me to believe one thing and switch to another at the last second. If you want me to buy the book, just tell me. It does seem a bit disingenuous to me.
Ogre4Hire 01-12-05, 12:44 PM	I think that it was Sulaco who said "If Wizards was giving away boxes of free money, somebody would complaign about how it was folded."
Edymnion 01-12-05, 12:50 PM	Why don't you ask customer service very nicely to send you an email with the article as an attachment, and that sending the link is no good because it has a problem.Because I already have the files in question, I downloaded them as they came out. I was trying to point someone else to them, and found this... redirect... in place. Either offer the material, or don't, I don't really care which. If they wanted to make it innaccessable, just take it down completely and be done with it. Covering it up with the old bait and switch is just plain insulting though.I think that it was Sulaco who said "If Wizards was giving away boxes of free money, somebody would complaign about how it was folded."And I'm the one saying "If Wizards was giving away boxes of free money, then when you got it, it was just an advetisement for you to buy the box of money instead, you should be ticked at getting ripped off."
Wotc_Mark 01-12-05, 01:00 PM	I'm sorry but because we are now selling the foldups we can no longer provide the free downloads. Sorry that the redirect is somewhat misleading. I just recently got around to the task of pruning the old links from the indexes and removing all of the files. Hopefully the sites search engine will update soon as well. MJ
Edymnion 01-12-05, 02:03 PM	Okay, thanks for the update Mark :) Glad I downloaded them when they were still free.
SnowbearK 01-12-05, 11:39 PM	Damn, I was right... ;)