C'mon guys, get your act together. [Archive] - Wizards Community

C'mon guys, get your act together. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
babysamurai
02-15-06, 06:52 AM This is getting ridiculous - between the Core books, errata, customer service, FAQ and Sage Advice, we seem to have many conflicting interpretations of the Grappling and Epic rules.

Can't WotC just have a gigantic neon sign somewhere on the boards saying "This is how the grappling/epic rules work...period".

My gripe is; the same threads on these topics keep coming up. Now, if WotC posted a final answer, that would be wonderful, instead of 17 different WotC sources all saying different things on the matter.

I think WotC has done a wonderful job with the new incarnation of the D&D game, but, c'mon WotC, pull your finger out!
kraegor
02-15-06, 07:06 AM New book in the Series:

"The Complete F.A.Q."

A rulebook.. describing the rules.

What do you say?

I know I would buy it!

I smell a moneysink here!!!!
babysamurai
02-15-06, 07:23 AM New book in the Series:

"The Complete F.A.Q."

A rulebook.. describing the rules.

What do you say?

I know I would buy it!

I smell a moneysink here!!!!

Yeah, but then we'd be back with the same problem, because they would probably also release:

Complete Errata
Complete Sage Advice
Complete Customer Service

...All with conflicting interpretations of the rules...nooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lord Gwydion
02-15-06, 08:13 AM And then of course they'll come out with the Complete Guide to Epic Grappling (with bonus ninja monkeys!).
babysamurai
02-15-06, 08:19 AM And then of course they'll come out with the Complete Guide to Epic Grappling (with bonus ninja monkeys!).

I used to be curious...now I'm just scared...

*turns off computer and walks out of the office*
kraegor
02-15-06, 09:24 AM They could just really make a lot of money and create a super PDF file that can only be unlocked on the core computer it was downloaded from, and every week, update the PDF and charge 1.00 for it.

Hehe.
Amaril
02-15-06, 10:06 AM I don't understand why there's so much emphasis on what WotC says. In the end it doesn't really matter, unless your playing in the RPGA or something.
babysamurai
02-15-06, 10:23 AM I don't understand why there's so much emphasis on what WotC says. In the end it doesn't really matter, unless your playing in the RPGA or something.

Hey Amaril,

The problem is when your playing with a group of people and one says "Nuh uh, thats not what it says per RAW" and another person saying "Yeah, but they cleared it up in the FAQ" and another person saying "Well, I called up customer service...and your both wrong!"

...see where I'm going with this.
Darth K'Trava
02-15-06, 10:35 AM I've never liked the grapple rules. More benefitting the monster and not the PC unless he's been enlarged to uber size and have even more uber strength.
Darth K'Trava
02-15-06, 10:36 AM And then of course they'll come out with the Complete Guide to Epic Grappling (with bonus ninja monkeys!).

Only if they include pirates to counteract the ninjas. :D
Amaril
02-15-06, 10:44 AM Hey Amaril,

The problem is when your playing with a group of people and one says "Nuh uh, thats not what it says per RAW" and another person saying "Yeah, but they cleared it up in the FAQ" and another person saying "Well, I called up customer service...and your both wrong!"

...see where I'm going with this.
I see where you're going, and I've dealt with it myself as a player and as a DM. Usually as a player arguing over the RAW, FAQ or errata with another player, ou DM steps in and says "We're done it this way," and it's resolved. As a DM, I've used that same power. In both cases, the issue is over and we move on to having a good time playing. If someone is arguing the minor details of a rule, they're playing the game for the wrong reasons IMHO.
babysamurai
02-15-06, 10:55 AM I see where you're going, and I've dealt with it myself as a player and as a DM. Usually as a player arguing over the RAW, FAQ or errata with another player, ou DM steps in and says "We're done it this way," and it's resolved. As a DM, I've used that same power. In both cases, the issue is over and we move on to having a good time playing. If someone is arguing the minor details of a rule, they're playing the game for the wrong reasons IMHO.

As the DM for my current campaign, I agree that when a discrepancy comes up, it's up to the DM to be the final arbiter.

It's just nice when the whole group (hopefully friends) comes to a satisfying interpretation for everyone, so there isn't one player saying "Man, my monk would be so much more effective if my DM didn't rule grappling this way".
babysamurai
02-15-06, 11:06 AM As I was telling Lord Ian Stark in another thread:

"It seems like the RAW/errata/FAQ/Sage Advice/customer service is one gigantic incestuous family that doesn't communicate...but then again, what family does"
Amaril
02-15-06, 01:30 PM As the DM for my current campaign, I agree that when a discrepancy comes up, it's up to the DM to be the final arbiter.

It's just nice when the whole group (hopefully friends) comes to a satisfying interpretation for everyone, so there isn't one player saying "Man, my monk would be so much more effective if my DM didn't rule grappling this way".
I have that problem even when not dealing with conflicting rules. I had a rogue that couldn't get sneak attack damage if he acted first in a round of combat because the DM didn't use the rule that characters are flatfooted until they act.
babysamurai
02-16-06, 08:36 AM I have that problem even when not dealing with conflicting rules. I had a rogue that couldn't get sneak attack damage if he acted first in a round of combat because the DM didn't use the rule that characters are flatfooted until they act.

Well at least that's not a misinterpretation of the rules...that's just a crappy house-rule (which I generaly loathe).
tennesseefats
02-16-06, 10:14 AM When playing with friends, etc. rule adjucation is rarely an issue. A ruling is made, if you don't like it, chat about it after the session is over.

In my experience, the disparity between interpretations (and btw, after my last online session, add polymorph to the list) is most problematic when you are playing in a group where the only thing you have in common is that you know/play DnD. In those instances, many of the players will have differing interpretations and the discussions (even if they occur after the session) tend to be a little less simple due to distances, no common ground outside the game, etc.

Plus, I enjoy the fact that DnD has a defined set of rules. If I got shipped to Siberia and met someone who played, we'd immediately have a common ground with which to communicate (and who knows, maybe be friends or something. [Cue the swelling strings]) - as long as we don't talk about The Sage, Customer Service (whom I would never call), and The Books in regards to: Polymorph, Grappling, Magical Enlargement...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
babysamurai 02-15-06, 06:52 AM	This is getting ridiculous - between the Core books, errata, customer service, FAQ and Sage Advice, we seem to have many conflicting interpretations of the Grappling and Epic rules. Can't WotC just have a gigantic neon sign somewhere on the boards saying "This is how the grappling/epic rules work...period". My gripe is; the same threads on these topics keep coming up. Now, if WotC posted a final answer, that would be wonderful, instead of 17 different WotC sources all saying different things on the matter. I think WotC has done a wonderful job with the new incarnation of the D&D game, but, c'mon WotC, pull your finger out!
kraegor 02-15-06, 07:06 AM	New book in the Series: "The Complete F.A.Q." A rulebook.. describing the rules. What do you say? I know I would buy it! I smell a moneysink here!!!!
babysamurai 02-15-06, 07:23 AM	New book in the Series: "The Complete F.A.Q." A rulebook.. describing the rules. What do you say? I know I would buy it! I smell a moneysink here!!!! Yeah, but then we'd be back with the same problem, because they would probably also release: Complete Errata Complete Sage Advice Complete Customer Service ...All with conflicting interpretations of the rules...nooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lord Gwydion 02-15-06, 08:13 AM	And then of course they'll come out with the Complete Guide to Epic Grappling (with bonus ninja monkeys!).
babysamurai 02-15-06, 08:19 AM	And then of course they'll come out with the Complete Guide to Epic Grappling (with bonus ninja monkeys!). I used to be curious...now I'm just scared... turns off computer and walks out of the office
kraegor 02-15-06, 09:24 AM	They could just really make a lot of money and create a super PDF file that can only be unlocked on the core computer it was downloaded from, and every week, update the PDF and charge 1.00 for it. Hehe.
Amaril 02-15-06, 10:06 AM	I don't understand why there's so much emphasis on what WotC says. In the end it doesn't really matter, unless your playing in the RPGA or something.
babysamurai 02-15-06, 10:23 AM	I don't understand why there's so much emphasis on what WotC says. In the end it doesn't really matter, unless your playing in the RPGA or something. Hey Amaril, The problem is when your playing with a group of people and one says "Nuh uh, thats not what it says per RAW" and another person saying "Yeah, but they cleared it up in the FAQ" and another person saying "Well, I called up customer service...and your both wrong!" ...see where I'm going with this.
Darth K'Trava 02-15-06, 10:35 AM	I've never liked the grapple rules. More benefitting the monster and not the PC unless he's been enlarged to uber size and have even more uber strength.
Darth K'Trava 02-15-06, 10:36 AM	And then of course they'll come out with the Complete Guide to Epic Grappling (with bonus ninja monkeys!). Only if they include pirates to counteract the ninjas. :D
Amaril 02-15-06, 10:44 AM	Hey Amaril, The problem is when your playing with a group of people and one says "Nuh uh, thats not what it says per RAW" and another person saying "Yeah, but they cleared it up in the FAQ" and another person saying "Well, I called up customer service...and your both wrong!" ...see where I'm going with this. I see where you're going, and I've dealt with it myself as a player and as a DM. Usually as a player arguing over the RAW, FAQ or errata with another player, ou DM steps in and says "We're done it this way," and it's resolved. As a DM, I've used that same power. In both cases, the issue is over and we move on to having a good time playing. If someone is arguing the minor details of a rule, they're playing the game for the wrong reasons IMHO.
babysamurai 02-15-06, 10:55 AM	I see where you're going, and I've dealt with it myself as a player and as a DM. Usually as a player arguing over the RAW, FAQ or errata with another player, ou DM steps in and says "We're done it this way," and it's resolved. As a DM, I've used that same power. In both cases, the issue is over and we move on to having a good time playing. If someone is arguing the minor details of a rule, they're playing the game for the wrong reasons IMHO. As the DM for my current campaign, I agree that when a discrepancy comes up, it's up to the DM to be the final arbiter. It's just nice when the whole group (hopefully friends) comes to a satisfying interpretation for everyone, so there isn't one player saying "Man, my monk would be so much more effective if my DM didn't rule grappling this way".
babysamurai 02-15-06, 11:06 AM	As I was telling Lord Ian Stark in another thread: "It seems like the RAW/errata/FAQ/Sage Advice/customer service is one gigantic incestuous family that doesn't communicate...but then again, what family does"
Amaril 02-15-06, 01:30 PM	As the DM for my current campaign, I agree that when a discrepancy comes up, it's up to the DM to be the final arbiter. It's just nice when the whole group (hopefully friends) comes to a satisfying interpretation for everyone, so there isn't one player saying "Man, my monk would be so much more effective if my DM didn't rule grappling this way". I have that problem even when not dealing with conflicting rules. I had a rogue that couldn't get sneak attack damage if he acted first in a round of combat because the DM didn't use the rule that characters are flatfooted until they act.
babysamurai 02-16-06, 08:36 AM	I have that problem even when not dealing with conflicting rules. I had a rogue that couldn't get sneak attack damage if he acted first in a round of combat because the DM didn't use the rule that characters are flatfooted until they act. Well at least that's not a misinterpretation of the rules...that's just a crappy house-rule (which I generaly loathe).
tennesseefats 02-16-06, 10:14 AM	When playing with friends, etc. rule adjucation is rarely an issue. A ruling is made, if you don't like it, chat about it after the session is over. In my experience, the disparity between interpretations (and btw, after my last online session, add polymorph to the list) is most problematic when you are playing in a group where the only thing you have in common is that you know/play DnD. In those instances, many of the players will have differing interpretations and the discussions (even if they occur after the session) tend to be a little less simple due to distances, no common ground outside the game, etc. Plus, I enjoy the fact that DnD has a defined set of rules. If I got shipped to Siberia and met someone who played, we'd immediately have a common ground with which to communicate (and who knows, maybe be friends or something. [Cue the swelling strings]) - as long as we don't talk about The Sage, Customer Service (whom I would never call), and The Books in regards to: Polymorph, Grappling, Magical Enlargement...