calming aura in VoPeace - problem [Archive] - Wizards Community

calming aura in VoPeace - problem [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
virtualone
04-21-04, 09:38 PM i wondered if it is possible to have fanatic followers, as per the rules in the ELH when you have a Vow of Peace. Since it is not stated that you can suppress the aura it seems to me that all extreme (even positive) emotions are surpressed all the time.
So, as soon as a fanatic follower enters the 20-foot aura, he is no longer loyal to me.

is this correct?
Carnios
04-21-04, 10:37 PM p. 206 players handbook 3.5

Calm Emotions
This spell calms agitated creatures. You have no control over the affected creatures, but calm emotions can stop raging creatures from fighting or joyous ones from reveling. Creatures so affected cannot take violent actions (although they can defend themselves) or do anything destructive. Any aggressive action against or damage dealt to a calmed creature immediately breaks the spell on all calmed creatures.
This spell automatically suppresses (but does not dispel) any morale bonuses greanted by spells such as bless, good hope, and rage, as well as negating a bard's ability to inspire courage or a barbarian's rage ability. It also suppresses any fear effects and removes the confused condition from all targets. While the spell lasts, a suppressed spell or effect has no effect. When the calm emotions spell ends, the original spell or effect takes hold of the creature again, provided that its duration has not expired in the meantime.
Carnios
04-21-04, 10:39 PM What page in that book is the fanatic on, i don't look thru that book enough to know anything about it. I'll try to help ya out if i can read it.
virtualone
04-21-04, 11:00 PM the fanatic attitude is due to extremely high diplomacy scores, and is described in the epic level handbook
virtualone
04-21-04, 11:08 PM This spell calms agitated creatures ...and ...stop raging creatures from fighting or joyous ones from reveling

to me, this wording applies to fanatic followers

from the elh: "treat the fanatic attitude as a mind-affecting enchantment..."

also, the calm emotions spell is specifically mentioned in the description of fanatic followers (that it can surpress it)
Elendur
04-22-04, 12:39 AM I'd rule that your fanatic followers lose their morale bonuses within 20 feet of you, but they retain their loyalty.
Although the concept of a Vow of Peace character having fanatic followers seems, er...strange.

You do point out an interesting quirk about Vow of Peace characters: their aura of calm supresses positive as well as negative emotions. That makes the Vow of Peace a problem for Bards and other good spirt-lifters.
They'd also be the death of any party.
Dartanel
04-22-04, 07:57 AM Keep in mind, the calming aura is a supernatural ability. Like any supernatural ability, it can be supressed at will.
virtualone
04-22-04, 09:43 AM thank you very much Dartanel :bow: ! thats what i wanted to hear!
virtualone
04-22-04, 09:44 AM Although the concept of a Vow of Peace character having fanatic followers seems, er...strange.

like.. the pope, for example?
Elendur
04-22-04, 10:35 AM That's a perfect example, actually.

Where are the rules for supressing a supernatural ability? Is it a free action?
virtualone
04-26-04, 04:38 PM Where are the rules for supressing a supernatural ability?
i did a search in the SRD, but didn't find anything.
but it sounds quite plausible.. maybe there is a rule like you can supress any positive effect, like the chioce to lower your saves and spell resistace voluntarily (lowering spell resistance - standard action, lowering save - action not specified, possibly free action)
virtualone
04-26-04, 05:37 PM examples of auras in the SRD:

most fear auras have "instant" durations and can be activated and deactivated "at will":

Fear Aura (Su): Bone devils can radiate a 5-foot-radius fear aura as a free action.
Fear Aura (Su): A horned devil can radiate a 5-foot-radius fear aura as a free action.
Fear Aura (Su): A pit fiend can radiate a 20-foot-radius fear aura as a free action.
Fear Aura (Su): Once per day an avoral can create an aura of fear in a 20-foot radius.

but other auras look like they cannot be deactivated freely and are permanent. those are SU+EX auras in which category the vow of peace aura falls that have no wording on being able to activate/deactivate them. it seems like these auras are sort of "hardcoded" and have both positive and slightly negative effects. (druid knows that spectre must be near because his dog behaves strange, magmin is unable to live peacfully in a crowded city dur to his body heat)

Fear Aura (Su): Liches are shrouded in a dreadful aura of death and evil. Creatures of less than 5 HD in a 60-foot radius that
look at the lich must succeed on a Will save or be affected as though by a fear spell from a sorcerer of the lich’s level. A
creature that successfully saves cannot be affected again by the same lich’s aura for 24 hours.
Desecrating Aura (Su): All nightshades give off a 20-footradius emanation of utter desecration, imbuing their surroundings
with negative energy. (...)
A nightshade’s desecrating aura cannot be dispelled except by a dispel evil spell or similar effect. If the effect is dispelled, the
nightshade can resume it as a free action on its next turn. Its desecrating aura is suppressed if a nightshade enters a
consecrated or hallowed area, but the nightshade’s presence also suppresses the consecrated or hallowed effect for as long as
it remains in the area.

Unnatural Aura (Su): Animals, whether wild or domesticated, can sense the unnatural presence of a spectre at a distance of
30 feet. They do not willingly approach nearer than that and panic if forced to do so; they remain panicked as long as they are
within that range.
Protective Aura (Su): Against attacks made or effects created by evil creatures, this ability provides a +4 deflection bonus
to AC and a +4 resistance bonus on saving throws to anyone within 20 feet of the angel.
Aura (Ex): A cleric of a chaotic, evil, good, or lawful deity has a particularly powerful aura corresponding to the deity’s
alignment (see the detect evil spell for details). Clerics who don’t worship a specific deity but choose the Chaotic, Evil, Good,
or Lawful domain have a similarly powerful aura of the corresponding alignment.
Fiery Aura (Ex): Anyone within 20 feet of a magmin must succeed on a DC 12 Fortitude save or take 1d6 points of heat
damage per round from the intense heat. The save DC is Constitution-based.
Aura of Evil (Ex): The power of a blackguard’s aura of evil (see the detect evil spell) is equal to his class level plus his cleric
level, if any.
Aura of Despair (Su): Beginning at 3rd level, the blackguard radiates a malign aura that causes enemies within 10 feet of
him to take a –2 penalty on all saving throws.

the third category are auras that have an explicit activation time
(actually, i have just found one of them)

Aura of Courage (Su): Beginning at 3rd level, a paladin is immune to fear (magical or otherwise). Each ally within 10 feet
of her gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against fear effects.
This ability functions while the paladin is conscious, but not if she is unconscious or dead.

my conclusion: either i have overlooked a crucial part in the definition of Supernatural abilities or something that clarifies this needs to be included in the next errata/FAQ
virtualone
04-26-04, 05:51 PM ways to deactivate supernatural abilies:
1) shapechange
2) gaseous form
3) antimagic field
4)ectoplasmatic form(psi)
5)metamorphosis (psi)
6)polymorph self (psi)
Temporal Reflections
04-26-04, 09:16 PM Vow of Peace suppressing fanatical emotions is perfectly reasonable. Extreme emotions are an imbalance and lead people towards irrational and often destructive behaviors. All it takes is one fanatical follower getting all uppity over someone dissing the person he worships before all sorts of hell can break loose. By preventing such extremums within his presence, the Vow of Peace character helps to ensure that any of his followers will take this more balanced state of mind and carry it on in their hearts outside of his presence.

Otherwise, fanatics breed hostility, divisiveness and misrepresentation.

Loyalty is one thing, fanaticism is something radically different.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
virtualone 04-21-04, 09:38 PM	i wondered if it is possible to have fanatic followers, as per the rules in the ELH when you have a Vow of Peace. Since it is not stated that you can suppress the aura it seems to me that all extreme (even positive) emotions are surpressed all the time. So, as soon as a fanatic follower enters the 20-foot aura, he is no longer loyal to me. is this correct?
Carnios 04-21-04, 10:37 PM	p. 206 players handbook 3.5 Calm Emotions This spell calms agitated creatures. You have no control over the affected creatures, but calm emotions can stop raging creatures from fighting or joyous ones from reveling. Creatures so affected cannot take violent actions (although they can defend themselves) or do anything destructive. Any aggressive action against or damage dealt to a calmed creature immediately breaks the spell on all calmed creatures. This spell automatically suppresses (but does not dispel) any morale bonuses greanted by spells such as bless, good hope, and rage, as well as negating a bard's ability to inspire courage or a barbarian's rage ability. It also suppresses any fear effects and removes the confused condition from all targets. While the spell lasts, a suppressed spell or effect has no effect. When the calm emotions spell ends, the original spell or effect takes hold of the creature again, provided that its duration has not expired in the meantime.
Carnios 04-21-04, 10:39 PM	What page in that book is the fanatic on, i don't look thru that book enough to know anything about it. I'll try to help ya out if i can read it.
virtualone 04-21-04, 11:00 PM	the fanatic attitude is due to extremely high diplomacy scores, and is described in the epic level handbook
virtualone 04-21-04, 11:08 PM	This spell calms agitated creatures ...and ...stop raging creatures from fighting or joyous ones from reveling to me, this wording applies to fanatic followers from the elh: "treat the fanatic attitude as a mind-affecting enchantment..." also, the calm emotions spell is specifically mentioned in the description of fanatic followers (that it can surpress it)
Elendur 04-22-04, 12:39 AM	I'd rule that your fanatic followers lose their morale bonuses within 20 feet of you, but they retain their loyalty. Although the concept of a Vow of Peace character having fanatic followers seems, er...strange. You do point out an interesting quirk about Vow of Peace characters: their aura of calm supresses positive as well as negative emotions. That makes the Vow of Peace a problem for Bards and other good spirt-lifters. They'd also be the death of any party.
Dartanel 04-22-04, 07:57 AM	Keep in mind, the calming aura is a supernatural ability. Like any supernatural ability, it can be supressed at will.
virtualone 04-22-04, 09:43 AM	thank you very much Dartanel :bow: ! thats what i wanted to hear!
virtualone 04-22-04, 09:44 AM	Although the concept of a Vow of Peace character having fanatic followers seems, er...strange. like.. the pope, for example?
Elendur 04-22-04, 10:35 AM	That's a perfect example, actually. Where are the rules for supressing a supernatural ability? Is it a free action?
virtualone 04-26-04, 04:38 PM	Where are the rules for supressing a supernatural ability? i did a search in the SRD, but didn't find anything. but it sounds quite plausible.. maybe there is a rule like you can supress any positive effect, like the chioce to lower your saves and spell resistace voluntarily (lowering spell resistance - standard action, lowering save - action not specified, possibly free action)
virtualone 04-26-04, 05:37 PM	examples of auras in the SRD: most fear auras have "instant" durations and can be activated and deactivated "at will": Fear Aura (Su): Bone devils can radiate a 5-foot-radius fear aura as a free action. Fear Aura (Su): A horned devil can radiate a 5-foot-radius fear aura as a free action. Fear Aura (Su): A pit fiend can radiate a 20-foot-radius fear aura as a free action. Fear Aura (Su): Once per day an avoral can create an aura of fear in a 20-foot radius. but other auras look like they cannot be deactivated freely and are permanent. those are SU+EX auras in which category the vow of peace aura falls that have no wording on being able to activate/deactivate them. it seems like these auras are sort of "hardcoded" and have both positive and slightly negative effects. (druid knows that spectre must be near because his dog behaves strange, magmin is unable to live peacfully in a crowded city dur to his body heat) Fear Aura (Su): Liches are shrouded in a dreadful aura of death and evil. Creatures of less than 5 HD in a 60-foot radius that look at the lich must succeed on a Will save or be affected as though by a fear spell from a sorcerer of the lich’s level. A creature that successfully saves cannot be affected again by the same lich’s aura for 24 hours. Desecrating Aura (Su): All nightshades give off a 20-footradius emanation of utter desecration, imbuing their surroundings with negative energy. (...) A nightshade’s desecrating aura cannot be dispelled except by a dispel evil spell or similar effect. If the effect is dispelled, the nightshade can resume it as a free action on its next turn. Its desecrating aura is suppressed if a nightshade enters a consecrated or hallowed area, but the nightshade’s presence also suppresses the consecrated or hallowed effect for as long as it remains in the area. Unnatural Aura (Su): Animals, whether wild or domesticated, can sense the unnatural presence of a spectre at a distance of 30 feet. They do not willingly approach nearer than that and panic if forced to do so; they remain panicked as long as they are within that range. Protective Aura (Su): Against attacks made or effects created by evil creatures, this ability provides a +4 deflection bonus to AC and a +4 resistance bonus on saving throws to anyone within 20 feet of the angel. Aura (Ex): A cleric of a chaotic, evil, good, or lawful deity has a particularly powerful aura corresponding to the deity’s alignment (see the detect evil spell for details). Clerics who don’t worship a specific deity but choose the Chaotic, Evil, Good, or Lawful domain have a similarly powerful aura of the corresponding alignment. Fiery Aura (Ex): Anyone within 20 feet of a magmin must succeed on a DC 12 Fortitude save or take 1d6 points of heat damage per round from the intense heat. The save DC is Constitution-based. Aura of Evil (Ex): The power of a blackguard’s aura of evil (see the detect evil spell) is equal to his class level plus his cleric level, if any. Aura of Despair (Su): Beginning at 3rd level, the blackguard radiates a malign aura that causes enemies within 10 feet of him to take a –2 penalty on all saving throws. the third category are auras that have an explicit activation time (actually, i have just found one of them) Aura of Courage (Su): Beginning at 3rd level, a paladin is immune to fear (magical or otherwise). Each ally within 10 feet of her gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against fear effects. This ability functions while the paladin is conscious, but not if she is unconscious or dead. my conclusion: either i have overlooked a crucial part in the definition of Supernatural abilities or something that clarifies this needs to be included in the next errata/FAQ
virtualone 04-26-04, 05:51 PM	ways to deactivate supernatural abilies: 1) shapechange 2) gaseous form 3) antimagic field 4)ectoplasmatic form(psi) 5)metamorphosis (psi) 6)polymorph self (psi)
Temporal Reflections 04-26-04, 09:16 PM	Vow of Peace suppressing fanatical emotions is perfectly reasonable. Extreme emotions are an imbalance and lead people towards irrational and often destructive behaviors. All it takes is one fanatical follower getting all uppity over someone dissing the person he worships before all sorts of hell can break loose. By preventing such extremums within his presence, the Vow of Peace character helps to ensure that any of his followers will take this more balanced state of mind and carry it on in their hearts outside of his presence. Otherwise, fanatics breed hostility, divisiveness and misrepresentation. Loyalty is one thing, fanaticism is something radically different.