Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Chairman7w 04-05-05, 06:17 PM	For instance, Charm Person. If they dont' see the person casting it, can they tell they've been charmed?
Prgrmr@wrk 04-05-05, 06:27 PM	The general rule is "Only if the PC makes the saving throw", in which case they know a spell was cast on them, but not always which one (give them a spellcraft check to guess). If they fail the saving throw, they don't have a clue. Unless it was a fireball that was cast on them, in which case they probably noticed. Same goes for NPCs.
Draco Obscura 04-05-05, 06:32 PM	Hmmm.... Maybe make them make a spellcraft check even if it was a fireball. If they fail, they think they almost spontaneously combusted. I like that idea.
questionc 04-05-05, 07:25 PM	One of my players is an enchanter, so this came up... Here's my personal decision, which seems to work pretty well... If the target succeeds on a will save, then he is aware that he just resisted a spell. If the target fails his will save and the spell is of the Charm subschool, then the target is unaware of the fact that he is being magically influenced. If the target fails his will save and the spell is of the Compulsion subschool, then the target is aware of the fact that his actions are and not of his free will.
Cursed_poet 04-05-05, 07:35 PM	Look in the Player's Handbook 3.5, the explanation of spellcraft, it tell the DC of the spellcraft check to determine that a spell without any observable effect affect you, plus when you succeed a save, you know that something is trying to attack you, like a danger sens, but it doesn't give clue about what it is, if there is no observable effect.
weasel fierce 04-05-05, 09:02 PM	well, for charm specifically, realizing the effect would sort of go against the entire point. So I;'d say no. As for other spells, if there is an obvious effect, most adventurers in a typical world would propably think something is amiss. Depends on setting and familiary though. Skills as well
Deacon Liadon 04-05-05, 09:26 PM	Methinks me smells a new feat: (Metamagic)Hide Magic: Prerequisites: Two metamagic feats When target passes will saving throw against spell effect, the target remains unaware that a spell was cast upon him/her.
Edymnion 04-05-05, 09:28 PM	I typically describe a passed save as being something like the hairs on the back of your neck standing up for no apparent reason, then going back down. Or a tingling sensation, or a sudden swell of a strong emotion like fear or panic, which subsides as quickly as it appeared. Depends on the spell that was resisted, basically. For Charm Person, I describe that as your thinking getting muddied and confused, like you just forgot what you were about to say.
75RD Drum Clip 04-05-05, 11:35 PM	I was wondering just such a thing this evening. I was thinking out if a character who failed their save versus detect thoughts would be aware of it or not. I would be inclined to say no if they failed their save.
Colmarr 04-05-05, 11:57 PM	From the SRD entry for saving throws: Succeeding on a Saving Throw: A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack. Likewise, if a creature’s saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells. It's clear that a creature that makes their save against a spell knows it was cast. Cursed_poet is also correct that Spellcraft allows a DC25 + spell level check to "After rolling a saving throw against a spell targeted on you, determine what that spell was. No action required. No retry." Bear in mind, though, that knowing you've been charmed doesn't change the fact that you still consider the caster of the spell a friend.
Nayk 04-06-05, 12:25 AM	While not exactly related. I think it is in the same range of question and probably not so far in the rule so maybe someone got a clue from that thread. How the most silently can a spell be cast?. I means .. suppose you got a rogue/wizard and he want to cast a spell without being heard. Or you want to summon monster while being hidden. What could be the DC to heard a spell being cast? And why? This question popped me in mind after seeing the movie "The scourge of swords" into which mialee cast charm person (or similar), and there, she's casting it without speaking loud. (but not silented) Thanks all Yanick
DrMorganes 04-06-05, 01:05 AM	Casting spells with a verbal component requires the caster to speak in a strong voice. (Check the DMG or PH on spellcasting and/or material components - I know this is covered, just not where ;) ) Essentially, a caster CANNOT mutter his verbal components and expect the spell to function as expected. There's a reason for the Silent Spell metamagic feat, after all... With that said, I also seem to recall seeing somewhere some rules for concealing spell casting. I haven't a clue where, when, or in what edition, so bear that in mind as I continue here. I'd allow a mage, sorceror, or cleric (but not a bard - there's a feat in Complete Adventurer which covers that) to attempt to conceal casting a spell. They would need to succeed in a Spellcraft Check vs a DC of (10+Spell Level+(5*the number of components suppressed)) to do so. Failure could indicate either the spell simply fails, the spell goes off but the caster fails to conceal it, or something more ... interesting (as in an unexpected effect, mistargeting, or somesuch). Personally, I'd say that failure indicates a wasted spell and that failure by 10 or more results in some form of mishap. Some spells have visible effects which preclude this sort of concealed casting (fireball, for example, streaks from the wizard to the point of explosion). Ferexample (sic): Concealing a 1st level spell with a single component (verbal, material, somatic - doesn't matter) would require passing a DC 16 Spellcraft Check. (10 + Spell Level (1 in this case) + 5). Concealing a 5th level spell with all 3 components would require passing a DC 30 Spellcraft Check (10 + 5 (spell level) + 15 (5 for each component)). Assuming maxed Spellcraft ranks (12) and a maxed INT (INT of 20 for a +5 bonus), a 9th level wizard would need to roll a 13 or better to pass the check. That may actually be a bit too easy... I think that works out to around a 65% chance of success. Anyhoo, playtesting is always a good idea ;) Another option may be to allow other spellcasters an opposed Check of some sort to notice the spellcaster's activity anyway. Spot seems most appropriate (DC = the concealing caster's check result, as always). Success would allow an immediate Spellcraft check to identify the spell being cast.