Can evil characters be good (or something)? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can evil characters be good (or something)? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
David E
08-02-05, 06:52 PM While the title question may seem oxymoronic (is that an adjective?), it actually does make a little sense. Let me explain, using a little imagery. Imagine this:

An adventuring party is mostly composed of good and neutral-aligned characters, save one - a rogue with a vicious mean streak. His tendency to maim his enemies and steal unscrupulously makes him a clear candidate for an evil alignment. However, this character is also extremely loyal to his friends, and would completely willingly lay down his life for theirs. In this case, would the rogue still have an evil alignment - and if so, would he be an acceptable character to play in a mostly good-aligned party?

Food for thought. ;)
Mikemyers64
08-02-05, 06:54 PM chaotic good?
Pfisiar
08-02-05, 07:01 PM As long as he's only maiming his enemies, I'd say that he is Chaotic Nuetral with Evil leanings. Now if he starts to hurt people for the fun of it, then he'd be evil.
Sinaz
08-02-05, 07:03 PM Actually, I'd say that he seems LAwful Neutral... since the loyatly to his friends forms some sort of code. Then it's just... bleh... whatever works... I might even go so far as to say Lawful Evil.
COPUS Chief
08-02-05, 07:40 PM If he steals unscrupulously and fights in battles that end in the maiming of his foes, he is acting without consideration for the welfare of others. You can end a fight without hurting someone and you dont have to take peoples things.

Moral Axis - Id say Evil.

He is extremely loyal to his companions and is willing to lay down his life for them. This seems more his code of conduct as he will steal and maim EXCEPT people who are his friends.

First Axis (Standing Axis, or whatever you call it) - Id say Lawful.

And in answer to your "oxymoronic question" Yes, an 'Evil' character can be good.
StormD
08-02-05, 10:05 PM While the title question may seem oxymoronic (is that an adjective?), it actually does make a little sense. Let me explain, using a little imagery. Imagine this:

An adventuring party is mostly composed of good and neutral-aligned characters, save one - a rogue with a vicious mean streak. His tendency to maim his enemies and steal unscrupulously makes him a clear candidate for an evil alignment. However, this character is also extremely loyal to his friends, and would completely willingly lay down his life for theirs. In this case, would the rogue still have an evil alignment - and if so, would he be an acceptable character to play in a mostly good-aligned party?

Food for thought. ;)
There's a Lawful Evil Rogue in my current campaign who behaves a lot like that. He hasn't disrupted the party at all, and the theological debates between him and the NG cleric of Pelor are quite amusing.
Disturbed1
08-03-05, 12:55 AM anyone ever see an anime called Dragonball Z?:P

Yea, id say Vegeta was definitely evil for most of that show(not going into GT stuff). i dont know what alignment id say he was, but he was definitly evil. just because you CAN do evil things, doenst mean you always do. he hated goku with a passion and would have killed him(or tried to) if goku wasnt useful to him.
MerricB
08-03-05, 01:16 AM Lawful Evil - and as such can quite happily work with any group that aren't strongly good aligned.

Cheers!
weasel fierce
08-03-05, 01:59 AM Evil doesnt mean you cant have friends, and Lawfull dictates that the character plays by some set of rules. One of the coolest LE character i saw played, was an outcast knight. He believed strongly in honour, and in never betraying his word or his friends, but he was also cold, ruthless and utterly merciless, within the boundaries of honour
Rallaster
08-03-05, 02:05 AM So then could a Chaotic Neutral character with Evil tendencies adventure with a Paladin? What about a Chaotic Evil with Neutral tendencies?

Just some more food for deba.... erm... thought.
weasel fierce
08-03-05, 02:09 AM Paladins cannot associate with an evil character.
The evil character can of course do as he pleases :)
Rallaster
08-03-05, 02:13 AM Paladins cannot associate with an evil character.
The evil character can of course do as he pleases :)I know it says that Paladins will not willingly adventure with an evil character, but I feel that this mentality brews the "ZOMG EVIL I SMITE IT! NETHING ELSE EVIL IN THE CITY? OKAY I GO SMITE IT ALL WITHOUT KNOWING WHY THEY R EVIL OR WHAT HAPPENED. NO NO NO STUPID I DON'T TRY TO REDEEM THEM!" mindset.
MerricB
08-03-05, 02:22 AM Paladins cannot associate with an evil character.
The evil character can of course do as he pleases

This can be illustrated here:
http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=202
http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=207
http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=208
http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=209

Quite seriously, a Paladin cannot associate with an evil character because, by doing so, they condone the actions of that evil character, thus promoting Evil.

A Paladin isn't stupid - they don't have to kill every evildoer they see - but neither should their actions be promoting the cause of Evil.

Cheers!
q'afuu
08-03-05, 08:21 AM I know it says that Paladins will not willingly adventure with an evil character, but I feel that this mentality brews the "ZOMG EVIL I SMITE IT! NETHING ELSE EVIL IN THE CITY? OKAY I GO SMITE IT ALL WITHOUT KNOWING WHY THEY R EVIL OR WHAT HAPPENED. NO NO NO STUPID I DON'T TRY TO REDEEM THEM!" mindset. That's not merely stupid, that's an obvious reason to fall from grace. Bye-bye paladin abilities. It's mind-bogglingly inane to play a paladin like that. If one or more of your players are moronic to that point, the best thing that can happen is that they do play a paladin the first occasion they get. Speeds up the learning process.
Pfisiar
08-03-05, 08:34 AM Evil doesnt mean you cant have friends, and Lawfull dictates that the character plays by some set of rules. One of the coolest LE character i saw played, was an outcast knight. He believed strongly in honour, and in never betraying his word or his friends, but he was also cold, ruthless and utterly merciless, within the boundaries of honour

But the question actually is, does he go out of his way to be ruthless, merciless and such, to innocent people? If yes, then he is evil. If not, then he's likely nuetral. Nuetral people can be cruel and merciless to their enemies and not so much to their friends.
David E
08-03-05, 04:48 PM Thanks for all the responses! Considering that this rogue does not go out of his way to harm others, but enjoys hurting his enemies as much as possible (he has some issues), I guess I would have to give him a true neutral or LN alignment.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
David E 08-02-05, 06:52 PM	While the title question may seem oxymoronic (is that an adjective?), it actually does make a little sense. Let me explain, using a little imagery. Imagine this: An adventuring party is mostly composed of good and neutral-aligned characters, save one - a rogue with a vicious mean streak. His tendency to maim his enemies and steal unscrupulously makes him a clear candidate for an evil alignment. However, this character is also extremely loyal to his friends, and would completely willingly lay down his life for theirs. In this case, would the rogue still have an evil alignment - and if so, would he be an acceptable character to play in a mostly good-aligned party? Food for thought. ;)
Mikemyers64 08-02-05, 06:54 PM	chaotic good?
Pfisiar 08-02-05, 07:01 PM	As long as he's only maiming his enemies, I'd say that he is Chaotic Nuetral with Evil leanings. Now if he starts to hurt people for the fun of it, then he'd be evil.
Sinaz 08-02-05, 07:03 PM	Actually, I'd say that he seems LAwful Neutral... since the loyatly to his friends forms some sort of code. Then it's just... bleh... whatever works... I might even go so far as to say Lawful Evil.
COPUS Chief 08-02-05, 07:40 PM	If he steals unscrupulously and fights in battles that end in the maiming of his foes, he is acting without consideration for the welfare of others. You can end a fight without hurting someone and you dont have to take peoples things. Moral Axis - Id say Evil. He is extremely loyal to his companions and is willing to lay down his life for them. This seems more his code of conduct as he will steal and maim EXCEPT people who are his friends. First Axis (Standing Axis, or whatever you call it) - Id say Lawful. And in answer to your "oxymoronic question" Yes, an 'Evil' character can be good.
StormD 08-02-05, 10:05 PM	While the title question may seem oxymoronic (is that an adjective?), it actually does make a little sense. Let me explain, using a little imagery. Imagine this: An adventuring party is mostly composed of good and neutral-aligned characters, save one - a rogue with a vicious mean streak. His tendency to maim his enemies and steal unscrupulously makes him a clear candidate for an evil alignment. However, this character is also extremely loyal to his friends, and would completely willingly lay down his life for theirs. In this case, would the rogue still have an evil alignment - and if so, would he be an acceptable character to play in a mostly good-aligned party? Food for thought. ;) There's a Lawful Evil Rogue in my current campaign who behaves a lot like that. He hasn't disrupted the party at all, and the theological debates between him and the NG cleric of Pelor are quite amusing.
Disturbed1 08-03-05, 12:55 AM	anyone ever see an anime called Dragonball Z?:P Yea, id say Vegeta was definitely evil for most of that show(not going into GT stuff). i dont know what alignment id say he was, but he was definitly evil. just because you CAN do evil things, doenst mean you always do. he hated goku with a passion and would have killed him(or tried to) if goku wasnt useful to him.
MerricB 08-03-05, 01:16 AM	Lawful Evil - and as such can quite happily work with any group that aren't strongly good aligned. Cheers!
weasel fierce 08-03-05, 01:59 AM	Evil doesnt mean you cant have friends, and Lawfull dictates that the character plays by some set of rules. One of the coolest LE character i saw played, was an outcast knight. He believed strongly in honour, and in never betraying his word or his friends, but he was also cold, ruthless and utterly merciless, within the boundaries of honour
Rallaster 08-03-05, 02:05 AM	So then could a Chaotic Neutral character with Evil tendencies adventure with a Paladin? What about a Chaotic Evil with Neutral tendencies? Just some more food for deba.... erm... thought.
weasel fierce 08-03-05, 02:09 AM	Paladins cannot associate with an evil character. The evil character can of course do as he pleases :)
Rallaster 08-03-05, 02:13 AM	Paladins cannot associate with an evil character. The evil character can of course do as he pleases :)I know it says that Paladins will not willingly adventure with an evil character, but I feel that this mentality brews the "ZOMG EVIL I SMITE IT! NETHING ELSE EVIL IN THE CITY? OKAY I GO SMITE IT ALL WITHOUT KNOWING WHY THEY R EVIL OR WHAT HAPPENED. NO NO NO STUPID I DON'T TRY TO REDEEM THEM!" mindset.
MerricB 08-03-05, 02:22 AM	Paladins cannot associate with an evil character. The evil character can of course do as he pleases This can be illustrated here: http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=202 http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=207 http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=208 http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=209 Quite seriously, a Paladin cannot associate with an evil character because, by doing so, they condone the actions of that evil character, thus promoting Evil. A Paladin isn't stupid - they don't have to kill every evildoer they see - but neither should their actions be promoting the cause of Evil. Cheers!
q'afuu 08-03-05, 08:21 AM	I know it says that Paladins will not willingly adventure with an evil character, but I feel that this mentality brews the "ZOMG EVIL I SMITE IT! NETHING ELSE EVIL IN THE CITY? OKAY I GO SMITE IT ALL WITHOUT KNOWING WHY THEY R EVIL OR WHAT HAPPENED. NO NO NO STUPID I DON'T TRY TO REDEEM THEM!" mindset. That's not merely stupid, that's an obvious reason to fall from grace. Bye-bye paladin abilities. It's mind-bogglingly inane to play a paladin like that. If one or more of your players are moronic to that point, the best thing that can happen is that they do play a paladin the first occasion they get. Speeds up the learning process.
Pfisiar 08-03-05, 08:34 AM	Evil doesnt mean you cant have friends, and Lawfull dictates that the character plays by some set of rules. One of the coolest LE character i saw played, was an outcast knight. He believed strongly in honour, and in never betraying his word or his friends, but he was also cold, ruthless and utterly merciless, within the boundaries of honour But the question actually is, does he go out of his way to be ruthless, merciless and such, to innocent people? If yes, then he is evil. If not, then he's likely nuetral. Nuetral people can be cruel and merciless to their enemies and not so much to their friends.
David E 08-03-05, 04:48 PM	Thanks for all the responses! Considering that this rogue does not go out of his way to harm others, but enjoys hurting his enemies as much as possible (he has some issues), I guess I would have to give him a true neutral or LN alignment.