Post/Author/DateTime	Post
asdfff 05-13-07, 07:42 PM	Seriously, I own all 3 (3e Adventure Game, Basic Game -both versions), and I'm very eager to use it to introduce new players to D&D...especially NOW, right before the summer lull starts AND before the PSP D&D Tactics game comes out. However, there's some embarrasingly obvious errors, implying there are numerous other less obvious errors which will damage gameplay and what balance there is in 2 levels of advancement. Only 2 levels! Especially in D&D, even 2 hps will be the difference between an awesome showdown and a full-party wipe! For example: Adventure Game: The Fighter can cast cleric spells? Really? Basic Game 2004: Some spells need to be clarified, and I think Fighter is missing a feat. Basic Game 2006: The wizard's 1st level HP is wrong. I think some of the level-up advice is wrong as well, giving too much or taking away 1 or 2 person's BABs. I'll be honest, these are very obvious errors which literally should have been the 1st things caught (because the character sheets are the 1st thing the players pick up). Just...I don't know, if you don't want to do a full read-through, just have someone collect them, pdf-ize them, and throw it onto the official D&D errata page? www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a Do this for me, Wizards D&D team, and you'll easily earn yourself anywhere between six and twenty brand new customers with disposable income and five very willing coming months to spend them in. Heck, do this for me and I'll be more willing to put more money into D&D.
Seeker95 05-13-07, 08:35 PM	It looks like you have sufficient capacity to fix the errors for your game. Errata is mostly to fix things for you. And as far as the Basic Game goes (any version of it) asking for errata for this is kinda like asking for updates to a software demo. It would be great for a very small number of people, but would require the same amount of cost as providing errata to the publications that have many more users. Recent comments from the Design Team indicate they are going to return to a more aggressive errata schedule, but with new products first.
asdfff 05-13-07, 08:49 PM	Thanks for updating me about that errata policy--I don't really follow developer chats and forums as closely as other more hardcore fans. It's just that the Fighter/Cleric spell thing is a very obvious thing, and there are bound to be less obvious ones I can't catch. That cleric thing, for instance, is probably just one of two errors I can catch, but I get the tingling feeling that there are others across all 3 sets. The point is *I* definitely can't do it. I don't think it's that much like putting out a patch to a demo--on Amazon, the Basic Game is selling very crisply, and it arguably is a good candidate to errata because 1) it would be easy, each product is like 50 big-print pages, and 2) each use of the product can potentially sell 2-3 sets of the 3 core books plus one splat book (assuming the 4 players come as couples or sets of friends). Also 3) There's like 2 full books a month to errata, one guy can probably do all 3 sets in a morning. Anyways, here's keeping my fingers crossed. Each set of errata will also boost up my customer satisfation up a notch. Remember that most Basic Game customers probably won't drop by this forum to ask about the balance issuse introduced or solved by, say, Complete Champion, so maybe they're not wheel-squeaking as much as others.
High Octane 05-13-07, 08:57 PM	You sure its the fighter that casts spells? It could be a cleric. Regdar and Jozan can look alike to the casual observer (same armor, both humans) and Tordek and the dwarf cleric can also be confused. Anyway, if you need any help with anything in the game you can always as k us. We voluntarily answer questions since it makes us feel smart and superior in order to soothe our fragile egos.
Nom 05-14-07, 06:20 AM	You also seem to be assuming that the rules between the "Basic Game" and the real "D&D" game match exactly. For the 2nd printing, they certainly don't. As for hit points, the hit point totals for both Carn (9) and Lanin (7) work if you assume they chose Toughness as their level 1 feat.
asdfff 05-14-07, 11:50 AM	Thanks guys, there really *were* quite a few things I couldn't catch. I'll be sure to drop by and ask questions along the way...I also forgot to assume that 50-page big font sets are _probably_ put out with much fewer errors than usual. Apparently more than a few of you have more than one of these intro sets lying around as well...gateway drug distro? Anyways, I really hope to use all 3 sets as the groups come: basic game 2 for ADD video gamers, adventure game for people used to tabletop games. I also really thinkg the D&D Tactics game will bring new blood to the table.
Grand Theft Otto 05-14-07, 11:54 AM	The basic game seemed a terrible idea actually. You introduce them with one set of rules, then switch to another. I've found it better to teach people the rules they will actually use.
asdfff 05-14-07, 12:07 PM	Well...you have to keep in mind that this is a vastly different world than when D&D 1st came out. Back then the basic set essentially had a 25 page tutorial on "how to pretend", and guys today don't need that anymore. We all have our 360s and PS2s. Along the same line, it also means that they're used to little tutorial stages as opposed to the 50-pages worth of choices that can be made with the PHB chargen. I'm not saying the basic game is the best way to go, but for the generic people that makes up most of who I know, it's a better bet than having them sit in on games. It's like...remember Heroquest? I think the spiffy furniture and the glazed minis (actual product not glazed) sold me on the game rather than the promise of a generic tromp through a generic medieval fantasy world when I can go on my NES and play a steampunk Final Fantasy or Zelda.
Grand Theft Otto 05-14-07, 12:17 PM	Along the same line, it also means that they're used to little tutorial stages as opposed to the 50-pages worth of choices that can be made with the PHB chargen. I'm not saying the basic game is the best way to go, but for the generic people that makes up most of who I know, it's a better bet than having them sit in on games. Thats probably true. What I try and do is teach how the game is played. That means I make the first character for a new player after asking them what type of character they would like, and we play a one shot (or a two shot). That gets them understanding the basic mechanics (attack, save, AC, skill/ability checks, etc). I cant remember specifics, but theres a few things in the basic game that arent how its done in the regular game. I remember thinking it would just cause confusion later on.
asdfff 05-16-07, 12:37 PM	Sorry to raise a dead thread, but I wanted to start a brand new one over this even less. I took out and went over the 3 sets again before I used them (Basic Game 2 is the best one for ADD afflicts) and found this: Lanin level 1 elf wizard char sheet: 11hp Level-up instructions: "You had 7 hp at lvl1. Roll d4 and add the result to 9. This total is your new hp total." That's 3 internally inconsistent numbers in one procedure. There's a few other level-up bonuses I'm squaring up because they look suspicious. Now I'm not saying the whole boxed set is broken, because I'm balancing and fleshing out the adventures anyways, but I really would prefer some errata as a starting point to work with.
Kouk 05-16-07, 03:30 PM	Basic Game 2 is the Blue Dragon box? I bought them both for the minis and for some reason I still have it.... Anyway, since you seem to know the rules already, you could just adapt the presented characters to the actual rules and put the information on a full-blown character sheet. That is about the only way to get the numbers right. At first level she would have 4 hp, + Toughness giving 7. Which means the original character booklet of 11 hp is impossible, unless she was made with different stats that gave her about a 18 CON (tough for an elf). I assume the entire thing was done shoddily and they kept mistaking which stat was what, and writing wrong numbers in one place then using them to get newly wrong numbers. Probably got the characters confused as well. I assume the adventure is still usable, though I didn't read it (first basic game was utter crap). If you adapt the character sheets to actual rules, or just fix all the numbers with some whiteout and a pen, then it should work alright. The monster stats don't really matter that much, they will just die anyway.
Kouk 05-16-07, 03:43 PM	The basic game seemed a terrible idea actually. You introduce them with one set of rules, then switch to another. I've found it better to teach people the rules they will actually use. Amen.
asdfff 05-16-07, 04:00 PM	Thanks for commiserating, guys. Descent (FFG) and Heroquest are both great dungeon crawl boardgames, but the gameply invariably gets stale after 2 crawls or so. I guess I've been trying to overlay the simplicity of those board game crawls onto D&D by buying the Basic Game--possibly fundamentally incompatible, especially with the questionable playtesting. My quest for a good RPG intro spiel continues! WOTC: 'cmon! errata! Those boxed sets aren't cheap but seem short enough to comb through quickly for errors!
jeffepp 05-16-07, 09:57 PM	I have always thought that they should have had a folowup adventure set to the basic box set. BTW, what is the difference between the Basic sets. I have the first, and saw the second in Barns and Noble. Is it just a re-package, or does it have different tiles and/or figures?
Kouk 05-16-07, 10:40 PM	I have always thought that they should have had a folowup adventure set to the basic box set. BTW, what is the difference between the Basic sets. I have the first, and saw the second in Barns and Noble. Is it just a re-package, or does it have different tiles and/or figures? They are different, yes, in most ways except for production value and quality. Actually, the first one might be better but I didn't really look through the entire second one. And there sort of is a follow-up adventure. I believe they tell you to buy one of their other adventures like Scourge of the Howling Horde, and some Eberron adventure. Of course, those use the real rules. Best introductory thing I would say, is just run a normal simple adventure with the normal rules and walk them through things with your superior knowledge after a brief rundown. The basic rule is "roll d20 and add something to it", just tell them what to roll and what to add to it. Of course, if they read the entire rulebook you would have more to start with, but that isn't very common.
asdfff 05-16-07, 11:07 PM	I have always thought that they should have had a folowup adventure set to the basic box set. BTW, what is the difference between the Basic sets. I have the first, and saw the second in Barns and Noble. Is it just a re-package, or does it have different tiles and/or figures? I can give a more comprehensive answer...after all, I'm the guy askin Qs about these damn intro sets. Here's blue dragon set compared to the black dragon (1st) set: No feats No character creation Basic skill point allocation Definitely higher production value (better for your short attention span friends) Absolute basic rules are more clear Fewer minis but no repeats Fewer options at level-up (but then there's 2 lvls total, so...) 5 mini adventures and 1 medium adventure No random dungeon generator tables (replay value much lower) Overall the rules are more clear than the 1st set, and everything feels crisper and cleaner (from the box to the character sheets), but there's no random dungeon stocking, so replay value is lower.