Post/Author/DateTime	Post
mesaratz 04-09-05, 09:53 AM	I need some help 1st the back ground:- I am not thick (or I don’t think I am!!), and have played D&D (1st and 2nd ed) since 79. Now the problem:- my son brought round the 3rd edition books and wanted to start playing BUT I just don’t get it, I mean if some one wanted to swim a river in 1st / 2nd then the dm would make up a number and way you go roll the dice, or the same with climbing walls etc. BUT NOW We have feats, skills, looks to me that it is getting more like rolemaster© then D&D. How does the DM get the numbers as it seems to me that it is a lot of looking up tables and less imagination! What one person thinks is easy the player might think he (she) can do with ease Have I lost the plot or just not seeing the new version as being better?
Charisto 04-09-05, 10:35 AM	i'm a 3rd edition player, and havent played 1st and 2nd, but with the example you mentioned in my campaign the DM can pick a DC or can look at the tables. But i don't know what anyone else does
Slumbersigh 04-09-05, 11:22 AM	Have I lost the plot or just not seeing the new version as being better? I have played 1st Edition, 2nd Edition and Basic D&D, andhad for many years, but recently moved towards 3rd Edition. While a big fan of D&D of old, let me tell you why the answer to your query is the latter, not the former: consistency. Thanks to the d20 system, virtually all rules in the game - book rules or on-the-fly-DM rules - are grounded in the same core mechanic. A roll of the d20, with higher rolls better, and with diffuclty levels and adjustments consistent across the board. This makes your job as a DM much easier, as well as less arbitrary, allowing you to create rulings on the fly without much thought. The skill system is cumbersome and needs streamlining, yes; the feat system is too much for many players (and DMs) to track, sure; but having the core mechanic be something less arbitrary and more consistent has made my life as a semi-rules-loose DM far easier. The majority of the time that I make a ruling on the fly, my ruling closely adheres to, if not matches exactly, the actual printed rule. That, my friend, is the beauty of a consistent set of rules. I think if given a chance, you will find the system liberating, because when your player wants to try a totally unexpected action, you will be able to react quickly and without pause.
weasel fierce 04-09-05, 11:51 AM	It works the same way: Ignore the charts in the book, and make up your own stuff. The main changes is in combat rules (if played by the book, there's a lot of crunch) and preparing NPC's and encounters (at high levels, its quite a lot of info) I do agree that there's a fair number of similarities to Rolemaster, which is propably unsurprising since Monte Cook worked on that for a while too.
Bulabase 04-09-05, 12:09 PM	It's a lot like the old system. The main difference is that before, the DM decided if the PCs could do something, now the DM decides how hard something is and the PCs skills determine if they can do it. Remember, most tasks like swimming a river can be handled by "taking 10." This saves a lot of time and grief. Of course, since you set the DC, you can easily set it up for PCs to succeed or fail tasks as you see fit. There are a number of set DCs that are important to know. Tumble, concentration and spellcraft uses come to mind. For others, it's just how hard you feel it should be. I do wish, though, that the rules provided a little more guidance in setting DCs for various tasks.
Sarella Starshine 04-09-05, 02:16 PM	when the players do skill checks you can still make up the numbers and they still have to roll the dice to see if they make it, all the tables do is give a general guideline saying how easy or how hard something is, and for consistancy you just gauge what the players want against the tables. the skills give modifiers to the dice roll allowing them a better chance at making the DC and succeeding at thier tasks.
mesaratz 04-12-05, 02:16 AM	Thanks to you all I have now reread the books and allow it still looks a lot to take in I have more of a starting point then I did before, and will be looking to change the characters in to 3rd ed Thanks again
Nytmare 04-12-05, 10:53 AM	I mean if some one wanted to swim a river in 1st / 2nd then the dm would make up a number and way you go roll the dice, or the same with climbing walls etc. You mean like the swimming and climbing rules that are spread across FIVE PAGES in the 2nd Edition Players Handbook? The swim rules where you take the classification of swimmer, figure out if movement rates stay the same, are halved, or thirded, make constitution checks, apply temporary ability damage and attack penalties, and follow up failed rolls with treading water checks? And the climb rules where you figure out base climbing success rates by going through three charts worth of percentage modifiers and climbing rates factoring in character class, race, proficiencies, armor, damage taken, and what the thing you're climbing is made out of? Yeah, I miss the good old days too. *grin*