Captain Jack Sparrow [Archive] - Wizards Community

Captain Jack Sparrow [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Magon
06-28-07, 12:00 PM what is the alignment of captain jack sparrow?

he's certainly chaotic, CG or CN. one them. which?
Chaze
06-28-07, 12:23 PM Kinda taking a stab at it, but I would say CN... He's good and evil at times so he equals out to be CN.

Just my opinion though.
Magon
06-28-07, 12:29 PM he's never compleatly evil... CN with good tendencies or NG with natural tendencys
Rogue Shadows
06-28-07, 12:32 PM Almost everything Sparrow does is for himself. That doesn't make him evil, but it keeps him a far, far cry from good as well. I'm depressed 'cause we never get to see him actually pirating, and what he's like as an actual corsair.

Nevertheless, Chaotic Neutral, with evil tendencies, I'd think.
Forgotten_Warrior
06-28-07, 12:41 PM Chaotic Nuetral, he has both good and evil tendancies.
Doleth
06-28-07, 01:01 PM http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=784002&highlight=jack+sparrow
this is pretty much the same thread than here, check it out.
Magon
06-28-07, 01:05 PM Almost everything Sparrow does is for himself. That doesn't make him evil, but it keeps him a far, far cry from good as well. I'm depressed 'cause we never get to see him actually pirating, and what he's like as an actual corsair.

Nevertheless, Chaotic Neutral, with evil tendencies, I'd think.

he saved the girl in the start of the first movie, without trying to get a reward. and he tryed to trick barbosa into negotiating, instead of battle
Rogue Shadows
06-28-07, 01:46 PM he saved the girl in the start of the first movie, without trying to get a reward. and he tryed to trick barbosa into negotiating, instead of battle

He's a pirate. That entails, as he himself put it, "raid, pillage, plunder and otherwise pilfer my weasely black guts out."

He also, without much if any regret, betrayed Will to Davy Jones.

So he does good, and he does evil, but his good acts are for the most part out of attempting to save his own skin (remember that negotiating with Barbarosa got him away from Norrington) or flukes, while his evil acts are conscious descisions on his part.

So: Neutral, with evil tendencies.
Forgotten_Warrior
06-28-07, 01:50 PM He's a pirate. That entails, as he himself put it, "raid, pillage, plunder and otherwise pilfer my weasely black guts out."

He also, without much if any regret, betrayed Will to Davy Jones.

So he does good, and he does evil, but his good acts are for the most part out of attempting to save his own skin (remember that negotiating with Barbarosa got him away from Norrington) or flukes, while his evil acts are conscious descisions on his part.

So: Neutral, with evil tendencies.

He also went back to face the Kraken.
Rogue Shadows
06-28-07, 01:57 PM In Dead Man's Chest or At World's End?
B28
06-28-07, 02:12 PM CN definetly. It would seem that he has both good and evil tendencies. That makes him...just CN. At least thats how hes shown in the movies. Being a pirate he might show his true nature more away from his more "goody goody" companians Will and Liz. He might need keep up a less evil appearance to count them as allies. Who knows when he might die and need some one to rescue him?
_Jayne_Cobb_
06-28-07, 02:14 PM He epitomizes the CN alignment, as he has done in each of these threads which have popped up over the last couple years and as he will continue to do in all subsequent identical threads.
Magon
06-28-07, 02:37 PM He epitomizes the CN alignment, as he has done in each of these threads which have popped up over the last couple years and as he will continue to do in all subsequent identical threads.

i'm a mage. i can cast CLONE
MagicMouth
06-28-07, 02:59 PM As _Jayne_Cobb_ put it, he´s basically a walking incarnation of the Chaotic Neutral alignment.

He's a pirate. That entails, as he himself put it, "raid, pillage, plunder and otherwise pilfer my weasely black guts out."
True, but it is mentioned in the first movie that he prefers to handle things without bloodshed, and that was actually one of the reasons his crew mutinied (it was a while since I saw it, so I don´t recall the exact wording).
Evil DM Mk3
06-28-07, 03:04 PM In the books (which are canon and take place before the films) he piladges a port without firing a single shot and frees the cargo of african slaves he is shipping for the Hounourable East India Traiding Company (in the days when he worked for them as a Privateer).

On the other hand avoiding violance could just be a form of the defencive cowardice he shows in that fighting can lead to death, running seldom does.
Joni-san
06-28-07, 03:08 PM CN, no doubts about it.

While he may be looking out for himself, he tries to do it without involving others in misfortune (or innocents, for the purpose of this discussion). This is what makes him neutral, instead of evil.
bobotheguy
06-28-07, 03:40 PM Im going to cause a little bru-ha-ha and go for Chaotic Evil. What is Jack but using everybody to achieve his own goals. through any means necessary.

In CotBP Jack used Norrington and Barbossa to fight against each other so that he may steal the Pearl back. Jack was mutinied as captain of the Pearl, so what is the first movie but revenge against Barbossa? What was Elizabeth but a barganing chip to use against Will? Not to mention the several times Jack tries to "woo" Elizabeth Even until the end of the movie, Jack gives Will up to Norrington and jumps off the rampart.

DMC: Davy Jones raised the Pearl from the depth of the ocean, and in return jack GAVE HIS SOUL to Davy. Rather than actually give up his soul, jack offers to get 100 sould in exchange. So he takes advantage the drunks of Tortuga to acieve these souls. And what of his compass not working? It shows what he truely wants, but he has to use other people to find the way. And yes, while Jack does go down herorically against the Kraken, why was he put there in the first place? he fell for his desires and let Elizabeth kiss him and chain him up.

Lastly, ATW. Ive seen it but once, so im not quite as sure on everything as other may be. In World's End, with the ship full of Jacks, he kills himself to eat a peanut. Knowing that he had Calypso, he tried to lure Davy Jones and Bekket into a trap. He used the other pirate lords and elected Elizabeth knowing she wants Will and would go to war for him. Finally, letting Will stab the heart. Sure, it was heroric, saving his friends life, but lets not forget where the end of the movie takes us. Hunting for the fountain of youth to again, achieve his personal goals.

There is the other side of the debate.

Bobo
Forgotten_Warrior
06-28-07, 04:46 PM In Dead Man's Chest or At World's End?

Dead Man's Chest. He opened his enchanted compass and found out that he really wanted to go back to the ship and help his friends.
Vrael
06-28-07, 05:08 PM Im going to cause a little bru-ha-ha and go for Chaotic Evil. What is Jack but using everybody to achieve his own goals. through any means necessary.

Well, let's see what I can do here, hm?

In CotBP Jack used Norrington and Barbossa to fight against each other so that he may steal the Pearl back. Jack was mutinied as captain of the Pearl, so what is the first movie but revenge against Barbossa? What was Elizabeth but a barganing chip to use against Will? Not to mention the several times Jack tries to "woo" Elizabeth Even until the end of the movie, Jack gives Will up to Norrington and jumps off the rampart.

Jack trying to woo Elizabeth is a bit tongue-in-cheek, he knows he doesn't have a chance. Jack is very good at applying leverage, and he needed Will for his plan, which would, in fact, not result in any of their deaths. He's tricky like that. At the end of the movie, Will's objective was to free Jack- if he hadn't taken off, that wouldn't have been honoring Will's wishes, would it?

DMC: Davy Jones raised the Pearl from the depth of the ocean, and in return jack GAVE HIS SOUL to Davy. Rather than actually give up his soul, jack offers to get 100 sould in exchange. So he takes advantage the drunks of Tortuga to acieve these souls. And what of his compass not working? It shows what he truely wants, but he has to use other people to find the way. And yes, while Jack does go down herorically against the Kraken, why was he put there in the first place? he fell for his desires and let Elizabeth kiss him and chain him up.

Oh, sure, he wiled his way out of giving up his souls by offering up 100 others, but that was a ruse so he could go after the heart. I don't see any problem with using other people to find the way- kinda like the party rogue using the wizard's spells to help. So sue him if he doesn't have ranks in UMD. Falling for desires doesn't have anything to do with Evil, at least not in this case.

Lastly, ATW. Ive seen it but once, so im not quite as sure on everything as other may be. In World's End, with the ship full of Jacks, he kills himself to eat a peanut. Knowing that he had Calypso, he tried to lure Davy Jones and Bekket into a trap. He used the other pirate lords and elected Elizabeth knowing she wants Will and would go to war for him. Finally, letting Will stab the heart. Sure, it was heroric, saving his friends life, but lets not forget where the end of the movie takes us. Hunting for the fountain of youth to again, achieve his personal goals.

Yeah, he kills himself to eat a peanut- by then, he's figured out where he is, so it doesn't matter. His afterlife is what clued me in that he was, beyond a shadow of a doubt, CN. Isn't that the vibe you got when you saw the nose over the plate on a white background? Nothing wrong with luring people into traps, that's just good tactics. He's a diplomancer, what do you expect when you put other people around him? Letting Will stab the heart was a HUGE sacrifice for him, that was his main motivation in this film. He's just off trying to find a less tentacley solution to his mortality problem.

There is the other side of the debate.

Bobo

And here's the other other side.
Lady_Truraven
06-28-07, 05:21 PM hello. i'm new here. w/f/t
Lady_Truraven
06-28-07, 05:24 PM I am new here and haven't played d&d in a long while. can anyone send me the original rules to the game...please.:angelhide
Forgotten_Warrior
06-28-07, 06:33 PM I am new here and haven't played d&d in a long while. can anyone send me the original rules to the game...please.:angelhide

Rule 1: Go out and buy the PHB.
zuul88
06-28-07, 06:46 PM He is an alcoholic, which as one means that I am firmly in the CN camp. Course I am CN myself. It all comes down to self-centeredness. At the end of AWE when he is off to find the fountain of youth(immortality is his goal throughout the whole trilogoy) the thing he wants most is his rum. His only real concern is his own goals, thoughs that run concurrent are very good, and he will even go out of his way a little if it will pay off in the end. This is just like the Riddick thread where people who dont get what CN mean will always put evil into it. Long Life CN Scoundrels!!!

Respect
Nathan
bobotheguy
06-28-07, 07:03 PM Vrael, Thank you for the great response. it really could go further and it would be a good debate between the two of us.

I do now overlook the Jack and Elizabeth relationship. You make a great point about the peanut, but one thing just kinda bothers me about the debate. the 100 souls, and the selling of his. You make a pretty good argument, but we arent discussing wizard spells, these are souls themselves. in the Book of Vile Darkness, it mentions the trafficing of souls to be irrespocably evil. Now while Jacks immediate goals could be argued for CN, trying to save his own hide, in the long run as you mentioned, he is trying to attain immortality. Thus by being willing to sell his own soul, and comdemn those of 100 others, and Wills as well, does the notion of CE stick.

Please, give me good reason to shake of that conception.

Bobo
mlund
06-28-07, 07:13 PM Jack never intended to honor a deal for his soul, Will's soul, or 100 innocent people's souls. He intended to lie, cheat, and steal from Davy Jones to have his cake and eat it to. In effect, he paid lip-service to the Evil-Doer who wanted to traffic in souls while looking around for a sharp object to jam into his eye and kill him.

Likewise, distracting, say, a Promajj slaver captain with the promise of a hold full of slaves right for the taking just so you can deliver a fatal Sneak Attack when he goes down the ladder to inspect the hold is not, in fact, trafficking in slavery.

- Marty Lund
bobotheguy
06-28-07, 07:17 PM well, i do agree, sorta. your example has but one small problem. Jack actually went and hired people and wanted to trick them into the service of Davy Jones. Your example seems to lack that element.

Bobo
mlund
06-28-07, 07:38 PM well, i do agree, sorta. your example has but one small problem. Jack actually went and hired people and wanted to trick them into the service of Davy Jones. Your example seems to lack that element.

Not really. What does Jack do with the crew? Does he take them to Davy Jones and sell them off? No. He takes them and goes to get the Heart. Now he's certainly exposing them all to a great deal of undue danger and grossly deceiving them, but he's not actively trying to actually sell their souls.

- Marty Lund
bobotheguy
06-28-07, 07:42 PM ok. It makes more sense now. I guess I change to CN. Thanks for a great debate, both Marty and Vrael. and hey, at least i didnt try to argue for Lawful.

Bobo
Cariyaga
06-28-07, 07:51 PM It isn't the act, but the intention of the act that defines alignment. He did that so that he could have the time to find Davy's heart, and stab it.

Also, he resonates the troubled vibe. It seems to me that he's having an internal struggle as to be CN or CG. (leaning toward CN)
mlund
06-28-07, 07:59 PM Also, he resonates the troubled vibe. It seems to me that he's having an internal struggle as to be CN or CG. (leaning toward CN)

Actually, I'd say he's struggling between CE and CN most of the time. He's selfish and cowardly, but not stupid. He knows in his head that behaving like a sociopath will get him ahead in the ways he asserts matter, but he feels in his heart that it simply isn't worth living like that kind of a man.

Basically, he is tempted to be CE, but realizes he couldn't live with himself that way - heck, that plays out literally in the Locker, now doesn't it?

- Marty Lund
Vrael
06-28-07, 11:51 PM Actually, I'd say he's struggling between CE and CN most of the time. He's selfish and cowardly, but not stupid. He knows in his head that behaving like a sociopath will get him ahead in the ways he asserts matter, but he feels in his heart that it simply isn't worth living like that kind of a man.

Basically, he is tempted to be CE, but realizes he couldn't live with himself that way - heck, that plays out literally in the Locker, now doesn't it?

- Marty Lund

normally I don't post one word responses, but...

Amen.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Magon 06-28-07, 12:00 PM	what is the alignment of captain jack sparrow? he's certainly chaotic, CG or CN. one them. which?
Chaze 06-28-07, 12:23 PM	Kinda taking a stab at it, but I would say CN... He's good and evil at times so he equals out to be CN. Just my opinion though.
Magon 06-28-07, 12:29 PM	he's never compleatly evil... CN with good tendencies or NG with natural tendencys
Rogue Shadows 06-28-07, 12:32 PM	Almost everything Sparrow does is for himself. That doesn't make him evil, but it keeps him a far, far cry from good as well. I'm depressed 'cause we never get to see him actually pirating, and what he's like as an actual corsair. Nevertheless, Chaotic Neutral, with evil tendencies, I'd think.
Forgotten_Warrior 06-28-07, 12:41 PM	Chaotic Nuetral, he has both good and evil tendancies.
Doleth 06-28-07, 01:01 PM	http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=784002&highlight=jack+sparrow this is pretty much the same thread than here, check it out.
Magon 06-28-07, 01:05 PM	Almost everything Sparrow does is for himself. That doesn't make him evil, but it keeps him a far, far cry from good as well. I'm depressed 'cause we never get to see him actually pirating, and what he's like as an actual corsair. Nevertheless, Chaotic Neutral, with evil tendencies, I'd think. he saved the girl in the start of the first movie, without trying to get a reward. and he tryed to trick barbosa into negotiating, instead of battle
Rogue Shadows 06-28-07, 01:46 PM	he saved the girl in the start of the first movie, without trying to get a reward. and he tryed to trick barbosa into negotiating, instead of battle He's a pirate. That entails, as he himself put it, "raid, pillage, plunder and otherwise pilfer my weasely black guts out." He also, without much if any regret, betrayed Will to Davy Jones. So he does good, and he does evil, but his good acts are for the most part out of attempting to save his own skin (remember that negotiating with Barbarosa got him away from Norrington) or flukes, while his evil acts are conscious descisions on his part. So: Neutral, with evil tendencies.
Forgotten_Warrior 06-28-07, 01:50 PM	He's a pirate. That entails, as he himself put it, "raid, pillage, plunder and otherwise pilfer my weasely black guts out." He also, without much if any regret, betrayed Will to Davy Jones. So he does good, and he does evil, but his good acts are for the most part out of attempting to save his own skin (remember that negotiating with Barbarosa got him away from Norrington) or flukes, while his evil acts are conscious descisions on his part. So: Neutral, with evil tendencies. He also went back to face the Kraken.
Rogue Shadows 06-28-07, 01:57 PM	In Dead Man's Chest or At World's End?
B28 06-28-07, 02:12 PM	CN definetly. It would seem that he has both good and evil tendencies. That makes him...just CN. At least thats how hes shown in the movies. Being a pirate he might show his true nature more away from his more "goody goody" companians Will and Liz. He might need keep up a less evil appearance to count them as allies. Who knows when he might die and need some one to rescue him?
_Jayne_Cobb_ 06-28-07, 02:14 PM	He epitomizes the CN alignment, as he has done in each of these threads which have popped up over the last couple years and as he will continue to do in all subsequent identical threads.
Magon 06-28-07, 02:37 PM	He epitomizes the CN alignment, as he has done in each of these threads which have popped up over the last couple years and as he will continue to do in all subsequent identical threads. i'm a mage. i can cast CLONE
MagicMouth 06-28-07, 02:59 PM	As _Jayne_Cobb_ put it, he´s basically a walking incarnation of the Chaotic Neutral alignment. He's a pirate. That entails, as he himself put it, "raid, pillage, plunder and otherwise pilfer my weasely black guts out." True, but it is mentioned in the first movie that he prefers to handle things without bloodshed, and that was actually one of the reasons his crew mutinied (it was a while since I saw it, so I don´t recall the exact wording).
Evil DM Mk3 06-28-07, 03:04 PM	In the books (which are canon and take place before the films) he piladges a port without firing a single shot and frees the cargo of african slaves he is shipping for the Hounourable East India Traiding Company (in the days when he worked for them as a Privateer). On the other hand avoiding violance could just be a form of the defencive cowardice he shows in that fighting can lead to death, running seldom does.
Joni-san 06-28-07, 03:08 PM	CN, no doubts about it. While he may be looking out for himself, he tries to do it without involving others in misfortune (or innocents, for the purpose of this discussion). This is what makes him neutral, instead of evil.
bobotheguy 06-28-07, 03:40 PM	Im going to cause a little bru-ha-ha and go for Chaotic Evil. What is Jack but using everybody to achieve his own goals. through any means necessary. In CotBP Jack used Norrington and Barbossa to fight against each other so that he may steal the Pearl back. Jack was mutinied as captain of the Pearl, so what is the first movie but revenge against Barbossa? What was Elizabeth but a barganing chip to use against Will? Not to mention the several times Jack tries to "woo" Elizabeth Even until the end of the movie, Jack gives Will up to Norrington and jumps off the rampart. DMC: Davy Jones raised the Pearl from the depth of the ocean, and in return jack GAVE HIS SOUL to Davy. Rather than actually give up his soul, jack offers to get 100 sould in exchange. So he takes advantage the drunks of Tortuga to acieve these souls. And what of his compass not working? It shows what he truely wants, but he has to use other people to find the way. And yes, while Jack does go down herorically against the Kraken, why was he put there in the first place? he fell for his desires and let Elizabeth kiss him and chain him up. Lastly, ATW. Ive seen it but once, so im not quite as sure on everything as other may be. In World's End, with the ship full of Jacks, he kills himself to eat a peanut. Knowing that he had Calypso, he tried to lure Davy Jones and Bekket into a trap. He used the other pirate lords and elected Elizabeth knowing she wants Will and would go to war for him. Finally, letting Will stab the heart. Sure, it was heroric, saving his friends life, but lets not forget where the end of the movie takes us. Hunting for the fountain of youth to again, achieve his personal goals. There is the other side of the debate. Bobo
Forgotten_Warrior 06-28-07, 04:46 PM	In Dead Man's Chest or At World's End? Dead Man's Chest. He opened his enchanted compass and found out that he really wanted to go back to the ship and help his friends.
Vrael 06-28-07, 05:08 PM	Im going to cause a little bru-ha-ha and go for Chaotic Evil. What is Jack but using everybody to achieve his own goals. through any means necessary. Well, let's see what I can do here, hm? In CotBP Jack used Norrington and Barbossa to fight against each other so that he may steal the Pearl back. Jack was mutinied as captain of the Pearl, so what is the first movie but revenge against Barbossa? What was Elizabeth but a barganing chip to use against Will? Not to mention the several times Jack tries to "woo" Elizabeth Even until the end of the movie, Jack gives Will up to Norrington and jumps off the rampart. Jack trying to woo Elizabeth is a bit tongue-in-cheek, he knows he doesn't have a chance. Jack is very good at applying leverage, and he needed Will for his plan, which would, in fact, not result in any of their deaths. He's tricky like that. At the end of the movie, Will's objective was to free Jack- if he hadn't taken off, that wouldn't have been honoring Will's wishes, would it? DMC: Davy Jones raised the Pearl from the depth of the ocean, and in return jack GAVE HIS SOUL to Davy. Rather than actually give up his soul, jack offers to get 100 sould in exchange. So he takes advantage the drunks of Tortuga to acieve these souls. And what of his compass not working? It shows what he truely wants, but he has to use other people to find the way. And yes, while Jack does go down herorically against the Kraken, why was he put there in the first place? he fell for his desires and let Elizabeth kiss him and chain him up. Oh, sure, he wiled his way out of giving up his souls by offering up 100 others, but that was a ruse so he could go after the heart. I don't see any problem with using other people to find the way- kinda like the party rogue using the wizard's spells to help. So sue him if he doesn't have ranks in UMD. Falling for desires doesn't have anything to do with Evil, at least not in this case. Lastly, ATW. Ive seen it but once, so im not quite as sure on everything as other may be. In World's End, with the ship full of Jacks, he kills himself to eat a peanut. Knowing that he had Calypso, he tried to lure Davy Jones and Bekket into a trap. He used the other pirate lords and elected Elizabeth knowing she wants Will and would go to war for him. Finally, letting Will stab the heart. Sure, it was heroric, saving his friends life, but lets not forget where the end of the movie takes us. Hunting for the fountain of youth to again, achieve his personal goals. Yeah, he kills himself to eat a peanut- by then, he's figured out where he is, so it doesn't matter. His afterlife is what clued me in that he was, beyond a shadow of a doubt, CN. Isn't that the vibe you got when you saw the nose over the plate on a white background? Nothing wrong with luring people into traps, that's just good tactics. He's a diplomancer, what do you expect when you put other people around him? Letting Will stab the heart was a HUGE sacrifice for him, that was his main motivation in this film. He's just off trying to find a less tentacley solution to his mortality problem. There is the other side of the debate. Bobo And here's the other other side.
Lady_Truraven 06-28-07, 05:21 PM	hello. i'm new here. w/f/t
Lady_Truraven 06-28-07, 05:24 PM	I am new here and haven't played d&d in a long while. can anyone send me the original rules to the game...please.:angelhide
Forgotten_Warrior 06-28-07, 06:33 PM	I am new here and haven't played d&d in a long while. can anyone send me the original rules to the game...please.:angelhide Rule 1: Go out and buy the PHB.
zuul88 06-28-07, 06:46 PM	He is an alcoholic, which as one means that I am firmly in the CN camp. Course I am CN myself. It all comes down to self-centeredness. At the end of AWE when he is off to find the fountain of youth(immortality is his goal throughout the whole trilogoy) the thing he wants most is his rum. His only real concern is his own goals, thoughs that run concurrent are very good, and he will even go out of his way a little if it will pay off in the end. This is just like the Riddick thread where people who dont get what CN mean will always put evil into it. Long Life CN Scoundrels!!! Respect Nathan
bobotheguy 06-28-07, 07:03 PM	Vrael, Thank you for the great response. it really could go further and it would be a good debate between the two of us. I do now overlook the Jack and Elizabeth relationship. You make a great point about the peanut, but one thing just kinda bothers me about the debate. the 100 souls, and the selling of his. You make a pretty good argument, but we arent discussing wizard spells, these are souls themselves. in the Book of Vile Darkness, it mentions the trafficing of souls to be irrespocably evil. Now while Jacks immediate goals could be argued for CN, trying to save his own hide, in the long run as you mentioned, he is trying to attain immortality. Thus by being willing to sell his own soul, and comdemn those of 100 others, and Wills as well, does the notion of CE stick. Please, give me good reason to shake of that conception. Bobo
mlund 06-28-07, 07:13 PM	Jack never intended to honor a deal for his soul, Will's soul, or 100 innocent people's souls. He intended to lie, cheat, and steal from Davy Jones to have his cake and eat it to. In effect, he paid lip-service to the Evil-Doer who wanted to traffic in souls while looking around for a sharp object to jam into his eye and kill him. Likewise, distracting, say, a Promajj slaver captain with the promise of a hold full of slaves right for the taking just so you can deliver a fatal Sneak Attack when he goes down the ladder to inspect the hold is not, in fact, trafficking in slavery. - Marty Lund
bobotheguy 06-28-07, 07:17 PM	well, i do agree, sorta. your example has but one small problem. Jack actually went and hired people and wanted to trick them into the service of Davy Jones. Your example seems to lack that element. Bobo
mlund 06-28-07, 07:38 PM	well, i do agree, sorta. your example has but one small problem. Jack actually went and hired people and wanted to trick them into the service of Davy Jones. Your example seems to lack that element. Not really. What does Jack do with the crew? Does he take them to Davy Jones and sell them off? No. He takes them and goes to get the Heart. Now he's certainly exposing them all to a great deal of undue danger and grossly deceiving them, but he's not actively trying to actually sell their souls. - Marty Lund
bobotheguy 06-28-07, 07:42 PM	ok. It makes more sense now. I guess I change to CN. Thanks for a great debate, both Marty and Vrael. and hey, at least i didnt try to argue for Lawful. Bobo
Cariyaga 06-28-07, 07:51 PM	It isn't the act, but the intention of the act that defines alignment. He did that so that he could have the time to find Davy's heart, and stab it. Also, he resonates the troubled vibe. It seems to me that he's having an internal struggle as to be CN or CG. (leaning toward CN)
mlund 06-28-07, 07:59 PM	Also, he resonates the troubled vibe. It seems to me that he's having an internal struggle as to be CN or CG. (leaning toward CN) Actually, I'd say he's struggling between CE and CN most of the time. He's selfish and cowardly, but not stupid. He knows in his head that behaving like a sociopath will get him ahead in the ways he asserts matter, but he feels in his heart that it simply isn't worth living like that kind of a man. Basically, he is tempted to be CE, but realizes he couldn't live with himself that way - heck, that plays out literally in the Locker, now doesn't it? - Marty Lund
Vrael 06-28-07, 11:51 PM	Actually, I'd say he's struggling between CE and CN most of the time. He's selfish and cowardly, but not stupid. He knows in his head that behaving like a sociopath will get him ahead in the ways he asserts matter, but he feels in his heart that it simply isn't worth living like that kind of a man. Basically, he is tempted to be CE, but realizes he couldn't live with himself that way - heck, that plays out literally in the Locker, now doesn't it? - Marty Lund normally I don't post one word responses, but... Amen.