Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Piropoint 06-19-07, 08:05 AM	Captain Teague is a judge amung pirates. He follows the pirate code to the letter, and makes sure that others do the same. So whats the alignment here? You might say that useing the world as a measureing block, Captain Teague is Chaotic Neutral as a pirate, but within the pirate world, he is a judge of the law which is a lawful quality. True Neutral seems far fetchd to me.
Cartigan 06-19-07, 08:14 AM	The guy that was on screen for maybe 5 minutes? Let's do the alignment of the rock crabs.
Doleth 06-19-07, 11:45 AM	Let's do the alignment of the rock crabs. Ok. So I guess you're refering to the crabs that bring the pearl back on water? They helped Jack and the other escape from the other dimension or whatever was that place without gaining anything for themselves and it must have been somewhat hard to bring the boat to the sea, so they would be good. They are somewhat playful tricksters, as can be seen how they tricked Jack into believing that they are rock and waiting for him to jump off the pearl before acting, according to the gnome entry in the phb, that would be a chaotic trait. However, you have to be pretty well organised to move a boat with a bunch of crabs and they seem to follow their leader with loyalty, a lawful trait. So, my guess is they are awaken neutral good crabs.
Piropoint 06-19-07, 11:52 AM	:doh: But seriously...how do you place a judge for a band of outlaws?
Draco Strang 06-19-07, 02:47 PM	:doh: But seriously...how do you place a judge for a band of outlaws? Well, seeing as they do abide by a code, and all answer to it that's definite points in the Lawful direction. Sure, they don't subscribe to the East India Company's code of laws, but one is in place, and seems to be pretty extensive, judging by the thickness of that book. OTOH, an argument could be made that they're chaotic, since pirates rape, pillage, and loot honest citizens. But anyone who's got even a smidgen of experience aboard a sailing ship will know that there must be a strictly regimented routine, and everyone must know their place and task for any emergency that might arise, from working the ship in rough weather to full-blown battle. So I'm still sticking with lawful. Now let's examine the Good-Evil axis. Pirates can be good (Will Turner, Robin Hood, etc. ad nauseaum), bad (Blackbeard was pretty wicked, Henry Morgan killed for the sheer pleasure of it) or neutral (Captain Kidde was just in it for the money, and made pains to avoid excessive cruelty.) Based on the pirate actions we saw in the movies, Teague would be, by default, more neutral than good/bad. Why? He shoots a man in cold blood when said man raises a fuss about who will be the next pirate lord, but he IS just enforcing order, right? And he looks awful dashing just standing there during the battle scenes. Since no super acts of good/bad are noted, he's probably neutral by default, especially since all the pirate lords entrusted him with that giant book, figuring he'd offer a 3rd party view asked. I'ma go with Lawful Neutral, with Lawful being independent of society, and dependent on pirate standards.
Altar_Boy 06-19-07, 07:52 PM	These are very chaotic people, and as such, the rules apply only when two pirates choose to do so. As the first movie mentioned: "It's not so much a code as it is a guideline." The code, when applied for parlay, was upheld the first two times it was invoked, after which the pirates threatened to kill anyone invoking the code. As such, Teague is a holder of rules for a lawless group. Contradiction? I think not. Chaotic individuals like to pick and choose what rules they follow, and to be given the opportunity to choose their own way. The Code, as I know it, allows parlay, an equal vote, and other ideals that allow pirates to not be oppressed. Not in the physically mortal sense, mind you. Teague's pistol proved that well. :P No, it's the legal and authoratarian control they're worried about. Having no assurance they can bargain gold or servitude for their lives risks one group can destroy all others. Captain Teague is Chaotic Neutral, representing the epitome of the free-spirited pirates. The code (or guideline) is a legal code that ensures freedom from restrictive rules, savvy? (BTW, why do we have no pirate icons? It's repression, I tell you. :rant: )
Piropoint 06-20-07, 08:52 AM	oooooooooooooo. two very compeling arguments. (pirate icons would be awsome) Actually...that didn't turn out to bad. :f: :sc: :f: :v:
lastknightleft 06-20-07, 09:53 AM	Why don't we set allignments for every character?
lastknightleft 06-20-07, 10:14 AM	First off, I think Captian Jack is Chaotic Evil. From all of his action through the three films while he has a good streak in him for the most part he is only concerned for himself. Maybe if you want to mince words you could say he ended with a change of heart to CN but for the largest portion of all three films he was CE. Then there's Davey Jones. Lawful Evil if there ever was a lawful evil.
Draco Strang 06-21-07, 02:05 AM	First off, I think Captian Jack is Chaotic Evil. From all of his action through the three films while he has a good streak in him for the most part he is only concerned for himself. Maybe if you want to mince words you could say he ended with a change of heart to CN but for the largest portion of all three films he was CE. Then there's Davey Jones. Lawful Evil if there ever was a lawful evil. How is Jack Chaotic Evil? Chaotic Evil is the very epitome of evil. As such, flowers should wilt and babies should be dying everywhere he goes. Wanton slaughter, heartless manipulation, cruelty for its own sake, and cheating on midterms are the norm for CE. How many times does Jack have the ability to sell someone down the river or put a knife in their back to end his problems? A ton. What's he do? He mutters an inane dialogue and either gets drunk or engages in flashy swordplay. Chaotic Neutral FTMFW.
AffableDoomwalker 06-21-07, 02:23 AM	ib4tl
lastknightleft 06-21-07, 10:29 AM	How is Jack Chaotic Evil? Chaotic Evil is the very epitome of evil. As such, flowers should wilt and babies should be dying everywhere he goes. Wanton slaughter, heartless manipulation, cruelty for its own sake, and cheating on midterms are the norm for CE. How many times does Jack have the ability to sell someone down the river or put a knife in their back to end his problems? A ton. What's he do? He mutters an inane dialogue and either gets drunk or engages in flashy swordplay. Chaotic Neutral FTMFW. Wow, Every chaotic evil character is like that really? It's amazing they do anything with all the wanton meaningless slaughter, not to mention how hard it would be to buy mundane things like bread. Jack killed all the time, he betrayed friends for his own gains, and only really did something for others after a change of heart which came after his resurrection. He was a chaotic evil character, not an npc, a character. And like I said he ended CN but it took his death and resurection.
Piropoint 06-21-07, 11:17 AM	jack is chaotic neutral. From what i've read, chaotic evil charachters have a hard time forming plans and staying on target. They can hardly work together, and have a very distructive nature for the sake of being distructive. Jack is no robin hood (chaotic good) to be sure, but he's not bent on world distruction eaither. Chaotic Neutral, "Free Spirit" A chaotic neutral character follows his whims. He is an individualist first and last. He values his own liberty but doesn’t strive to protect others’ freedom. He avoids authority, resents restrictions, and challenges traditions. A chaotic neutral character does not intentionally disrupt organizations as part of a campaign of anarchy. To do so, he would have to be motivated either by good (and a desire to liberate others) or evil (and a desire to make those different from himself suffer). A chaotic neutral character may be unpredictable, but his behavior is not totally random. He is not as likely to jump off a bridge as to cross it. Chaotic Evil, "Destroyer" A chaotic evil character does whatever his greed, hatred, and lust for destruction drive him to do. He is hot-tempered, vicious, arbitrarily violent, and unpredictable. If he is simply out for whatever he can get, he is ruthless and brutal. If he is committed to the spread of evil and chaos, he is even worse. Thankfully, his plans are haphazard, and any groups he joins or forms are poorly organized. Typically, chaotic evil people can be made to work together only by force, and their leader lasts only as long as he can thwart attempts to topple or assassinate him. Chaotic evil is sometimes called "demonic" because demons are the epitome of chaotic evil. Which one sounds more like jack?
Erato 06-21-07, 01:35 PM	What's all the confusion about? Lawful means following *a* code, not the code of the East India Trading Company. It doesn't really matter how much you break other people's laws, what matters is that you keep to your own code. Teague is Lawful, because unlike many other pirates, who might use the Code as mere guidelines to uphold or disregard as they please, Teague believes the Code to be the ultimate Law, and he will keep to it, no matter what. A Paladin might be an outlaw in a country of orcs, because he has saved innocents and freed slaves, but he's still Lawful. And were did Jack come in to all this :confused:
Erato 06-21-07, 01:40 PM	How is Jack Chaotic Evil? Chaotic Evil is the very epitome of evil. No, not anymore. CE just means commiting Evil acts without any pattern, unlike LE who systemize their cruelty, and NE who are capable of planing ahead and following a system if they have to, but are willing to change if it can further their own goal. That said, I agree with you about Jack's alignment.
EvilPheemy 06-21-07, 05:31 PM	Teague, definitely Lawful. Most likely not Good (after all, he is willing to kill casually to enforce the Law). Though we don't get nearly enough material from his pair of three minute appearances to get a handle on his moral compass. Jack isn't evil. He's neutral. He's got a nagging conscience that really keeps him from the cruelty necessary for evil. At worst, he poses evil. He is most definitely Chaotic. I'd peg Barbossa as evil before Jack. Most likely Neutral Evil (though by the end of the third film, I'd say he's Neutral with evil tendencies). And the main baddies from the East India Trading Company? They're a fine example of Lawful Evil. And an even better counterpoint to the "honorable" Lawful Evil stereotype that has gained so much popularity as of late.
Draco Strang 06-22-07, 10:51 AM	Wow, Every chaotic evil character is like that really? It's amazing they do anything with all the wanton meaningless slaughter, not to mention how hard it would be to buy mundane things like bread. Jack killed all the time, he betrayed friends for his own gains, and only really did something for others after a change of heart which came after his resurrection. He was a chaotic evil character, not an npc, a character. And like I said he ended CN but it took his death and resurection. Well, as for the bread, you can bet pirates, evil or neutral, don't walk into town to buy it. They steal it, bake it, have pirate wenches find it, or buy it from other pirates. Jack did not just "kill all the time." Did you see him walk into town square and start offing villagers because they were in his way? Anyone he stabbed/shot was directly in his way, and the majority of his killings were blatant self defense.
lastknightleft 06-22-07, 11:53 AM	allright, I'll give on the CN for jack but he does show lots of evil tendencies. Barbosa I'l definitely pin as an evil character, I think he's a darn good example of NE. He makes plans, but will change them on a whim, he ignores the code sometimes but knows the whole thing by heart. I think he's an exemplar of NE where Davey is an Exemplar of LE. What about the scorned lover in the film I can never remember his name, but he was the guy who died to help the girl escape, I think he started LN and died NG, he showed lots of shift in allignment and I thought he was an excellent journey character.
MHolland 06-22-07, 11:59 AM	Chaotic from the perspective of those outside their society but Lawful within it imho. I vote for Lawful Neutral.