cast 22 cure light wounds every day forever [Archive] - Wizards Community

cast 22 cure light wounds every day forever [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
gannaid
10-01-04, 06:20 AM One of the players in my group has started looking into creating magic items and wants an item that casts cure light wounds 22 times a day. By the rules it looks like a Command word item which would be Spell level X caster Level X 1800 GP or 1 X 1 x 1800 = 1800 then under special we add in the charges per day which is divide by 5 (5divided by charges per day) 22/5 =4.4 and 4.4 X 1800 = 7920.

Is this the correct way to calculate this if I put it on something mundane like a jewel? How much if I add it to a shield and what would the formula be for that?
amethal
10-01-04, 07:44 AM Without having the book handy, I'd say you are calculating it wrong and it would be a lot cheaper than that (say about 1,800 gp).

However, my advice to you (or your DM, if that is not you) is DO NOT allow this item.

The item cost table is very much a last resort, for when you can't come up with a price any other way (e.g. by comparing to similar items). If the DM is not careful it can prove the most unbalancing "rule" in the whole game.

If the players want a healing item, let them buy wands of cure light wounds (caster level 1) at 750 gp each for 50 charges.
Wildonion
10-01-04, 08:21 AM -The wand is the way to go my friend.

-Unless you want it to be in the shape of his holy symbol, then that would add some flavor to it.

-Why use a Cure Light Wounds wand when you can do it (50 charges so 50 times) with a wand in the shape of the God's holy symbol? :)
WWAD
10-01-04, 09:51 AM Ultimately it won't impact the game too much and they are paying for it (10 x the cost of a CLW wand). It doesn't have the power (d8+1) to cure hp during combat, so it's only going to help recover downtime that would be used to replenish healing spells which may only speed up your game. That's never a bad thing.

Don't listen to these posts, the rules for making this item are fine. Sure a CLW wand is the base for this, but if the character has 8k to spend and doesn't mind having an item that's basically useless during combat after level 5'ish, let him.
CzarGarrett
10-01-04, 10:16 AM IMO, 22 times a day is excessive. Look at other magic items. You either have at will, or something like 2 or 3 times a day.

A Ring of Cure Light Wounds, I'd go with 2/hour. That gives plenty of downtime healing, especially if its at a higher level. And it won't give much of a chance for abuse. 22 times a day, going with a standard 4 member party, each gets 5 times a day + standard healing + any other healing outside of combat. Its almost too much.
Seeker95
10-01-04, 11:00 AM Once you get beyond five times a day, you are in the realm of unlimited use.
Unlimited use cure light wounds is not permitted by most sane DMs. It is an item similar to the Weapon of True Strike found in my signature.

Want frequent cure light wounds ability? Get a wand. :D
Zherog
10-01-04, 11:41 AM One of the players in my group has started looking into creating magic items and wants an item that casts cure light wounds 22 times a day. By the rules it looks like a Command word item which would be Spell level X caster Level X 1800 GP or 1 X 1 x 1800 = 1800 then under special we add in the charges per day which is divide by 5 (5divided by charges per day) 22/5 =4.4 and 4.4 X 1800 = 7920.

Is this the correct way to calculate this if I put it on something mundane like a jewel? How much if I add it to a shield and what would the formula be for that?

The formula for the item you are looking for would be:

1 (spell level) * 1 (caster level) * 1800 (command word) * 2 (unslotted) / ( 5 / 22) charges per day.

This would give you a cost of 15840 GP.
Pyre
10-01-04, 01:17 PM DND stays away from infinite curing items. I'm all for going with the wand. And for the record, any item, when using the formulae, will have a higher cost with more than 5 charges/day than it will with unlimited charges.

The best item to look at for this is the ring of regeneration, the only unlimited curing item in the DMG. The twice an hour cure light wounds would be better than a ring of regeration until the character got above 15-20th level (Depending on the CL of the Cure spell).

Also, even though the ring of regeneration encompasses the regeneration of limbs, I believe that it is not its primary ability (unless you are using the AD&D supplement with the special critical hits: Skills and Powers, or something like that I think).

The Ring of Regeneration is 90,000. This item is not something I'd allow.

For similar items: reference the Stronghold Builder's guide>Wonderous Architecture>Bed of Healing. I don't like that one either, so I didn't include it in my examples.
IceFractal
10-01-04, 07:49 PM IMO, there's a reason 5 times/day is equal in price to "at will", and it's that items that would be overpowered when usable at will should instead be usable 5/day for the same price.

For instance, a ring of CLW at will (basically a ring of fast healing 1d8+1) would cost waaaaaaaay more than 2,000 gp (maybe epic, or maybe just very high cost). However, for 2,000 gp, you can get a ring of CLW that works 5 times a day. In this context, a ring of CLW 10/day for 4,000 gp makes perfect sense, because "at will" costs a heck of a lot more than that (I'd probably base the price off of a Ring of Regeneration 5.5, minus some because Fast Healing isn't as good, plus some if it could be used on other people).

The same thing solves the "true strike item" trick. 2,000 gp will get you True Strike 5/day, not at will. If you want it at will, the price would be around 200,000 gp minimum (Priced as a +10 weapon, as +10 to hit/+10 to damage seems about equal to +20 to hit), and probably more, as it stacks with the weapon bonus and is a circumstance bonus rather than enhancement.

I have no proof that this is what's intended by the pricing, but it seems to work pretty well.
WWAD
10-02-04, 09:15 AM A thread in the CO forum priced the true strike weapon around 150 million or something insane. I'm too lazy to do the search, but it's there if you're interested. And if anyone knows the rules enough to calculate that, it's the people in the CO forum.
Wildonion
10-02-04, 10:16 AM Once you get beyond five times a day, you are in the realm of unlimited use.
Unlimited use cure light wounds is not permitted by most sane DMs. It is an item similar to the Weapon of True Strike found in my signature.

Want frequent cure light wounds ability? Get a wand. :D

I want a sword of true strike. I'm going to play a Wizard and ask my DM:
"Hey Scott?"
"What?"
"I can craft wonderouse items and I wanted to know, could I buy a brand new masterwork Rapier?"
"You already have a +2 Rapier but fine."
"Great, now can I enchant it with True Strike?"
"Sure whatever."

The next combat

"I cast Tensor's Tranformation!"
"Ok you are now a fighter type."

next turn

"I run up and attack the <name here> and get a 45"
"WHAT?!?!?!"
"Yep, 14+1+20"
"Where did the plus 20 come from?"
"The Rapier of True Strike, and While I'm at it can I cast Keen Edge and Permanancy on it?"

Oh the laughs we would have......
Scion of Coldshard
10-02-04, 12:12 PM The ring of regen is horribly, horribly overpriced. As such it does not make for a good comparison ;)

Still though, there are other items that one could get instead.

A lesser strand of prayer beads is 9,600 and it has the bead of blessing and the bead of healing. If your dm is a linient sort then a bead of healing on a strand by itself is 9k.

Of course it can cast one spell per day which could be any one of the following: cure serious wounds, remove blindness/deafness, or remove disease

Caster level 5, so it will heal 3d8+5. Not too shabby.

There are other items that will help as well, but going back to the initial statement of the ring being overpriced.. for 90k one can have instead 1800 cure light wound potions. These are useable anytime by anyone, they can heal much faster, they are not level dependent, and they dont take up a slot. In total they heal 9900 (on average, but with 1800 dice rolled being even a couple of points away from this is nearly impossible). It would take a 20th level character pretty much being hurt all of the time with at least 20 points for 495 hours just to be able to heal this much.

As for the unlimited cure light wounds item ::shrugs:: I would prefer to make something out of one of the newer spells. Grant Fast Healing X while worn. Make it require being on for a full day before working and it can be priced decently low. Little to no combat potential, but not much healing needed outside of combat except when in a rush. Perfect ;)
Seeker95
10-02-04, 12:58 PM A thread in the CO forum priced the true strike weapon around 150 million or something insane.The weapon grants a +20 to hit.
Bonus squared x 2000
20 x 20 x 2000 = 800,000gp
It is epic, so the price is multiplied by 10 = 8,000,000.

Some would argue that it is doubled because a weapon does not take up a body slot. = 16,000,000gp
darczero
10-02-04, 09:17 PM Here's one for you:

Tome and Blood version of Innate Spell; allows single spell to be used as spell-like ability at will by permanently giving up spell slot 8 levels higher, requires Silent Spell, Still Spell, and Quicken Spell, and unlike an item, cannot be stolen.

Go with the item, and if your price sounds okay to you and the player in question, then by all means, do it. If you want to be hard on them, require special materials or something (make them go on a quest for it).
Wildonion
10-02-04, 10:51 PM The weapon grants a +20 to hit.
Bonus squared x 2000
20 x 20 x 2000 = 800,000gp
It is epic, so the price is multiplied by 10 = 8,000,000.

Some would argue that it is doubled because a weapon does not take up a body slot. = 16,000,000gp

True Strike is a first level wizard spell :D
Seeker95
10-03-04, 08:56 AM True Strike is a first level wizard spell :DRead my signature for my response to such malarkey. :P
Wildonion
10-03-04, 10:08 AM I have read your sig, a lot. It is very funny, but for my campaigns it is by this method:

<weapon name here> of True Strike:

Craft Magic weapons and armor feat, an masterwork weapon (brand new never been used), the wizard to make the thing and one confused/distracted DM.
Seeker95
10-03-04, 10:49 AM I concur with one of the pre-requisites being a very confused DM.
Bort333
10-03-04, 11:30 AM Activating an item with true strike has a standard action. Thats not really a big deal, your only fight half of the rounds and only one attack. I don't see how thats broken unless you pull a fast one by your DM.

As far as cure light wounds... meh. Wands of cure light do almost as good. If you buy 10 of them (thats 7,500) thats 500 charges of cure light. 500d8+500 = a lot of healing, probably not that much needed for a LONG time.
Mrvice
10-04-04, 03:28 AM I say give the guy the item. Then do the following thingsthings:

1. Make it so he can't control when the ring cures him. IE: Make it intellegent or make it act on a regular interval.

2. Apply what happens to a character when they start recieving to much positive energy. IE: That character begins to exhibit an aura of good and choas, they become either fat or bloated, and given to much they can possibly die.

3. Make the item cursed, and have it be that if that character removes the curse, they also remove the magic of the ring.

The obvious solution to this problem is to simply damage yourself when the ring's healing becomes nonbenifical. Which is probably the route the player will go, once he discovers the unfortent side effects of this ring. You counter ballance this by having all this damage be treated as ritual scaring, which draws the attention of an evil deity. That said deity then sends a High level or possibly a group of high level devoties to attempt to convert or perhaps sacrifice this character. Upon meeting this character these devoties realize the aura of good around him, and decide to kill him instead.

I know this sounds unecisary, but this item is an attempt to unballance your campign and as such should be treated with the upmost cruleity. Let this stand as a warning to all players who would dare try this again.

Mr. Vice

Please Pardon my spelling
Magus Gar Kan
10-04-04, 01:24 PM Actually there is an item "Bow of True Arrows", the catch is that it is a standard action to use, so you cannot attack in the same round that you activate it's power (barring any specific feats, items, spells, etc). Also, it is obscenely expensive.

Also in reguards to the CLW item, where did he come up with 22 times a day? Also it is worth noting that at minimum the item cures 1d8+1 hp per round, taking a standard action to use. at the level the group would be able to afford such an item, it does not seem that overpowered to me.
Zherog
10-04-04, 03:17 PM Actually there is an item "Bow of True Arrows", the catch is that it is a standard action to use, so you cannot attack in the same round that you activate it's power (barring any specific feats, items, spells, etc). Also, it is obscenely expensive.

In addition, that bow is a Spell Trigger item (sort of like a wand). That means the spell must be on your spell list to use it.
Mrvice
10-05-04, 06:02 AM The problem is that it's removing a sinkhole from the world econemy. YOu can say all you want about buying wands, but remember, if players have this item, it will effectively remove all need for buying healing agents in game. As someone earlier said, you can buy 10 wands of cure light for 7500 gp and thats 500 cure light wounds. Remember that that item has to be used by someone who can cast the spell and wands do eventualy run out. This item is effectively gving the players a second level cleric who has devoted is entire assortement of first and second level spells to healing and nothing but healing.

Just think about it

Mr Vice

I sorry for the possible lack of clerity in this post, I"m on pain killers for a torn muscle in my back and it's effecting my ability to write.
Wildonion
10-05-04, 08:21 AM Torn muscle? Ouch hope ya get better :)
Coran
10-05-04, 02:23 PM the item i would cap it at 5 or make it unlimited at double the price as well it isn't taking an item slot so an adiitional double. as well if you find it unbalances the campaign then the DMs little magic munchkin can relieve said characters of said item ;)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
gannaid 10-01-04, 06:20 AM	One of the players in my group has started looking into creating magic items and wants an item that casts cure light wounds 22 times a day. By the rules it looks like a Command word item which would be Spell level X caster Level X 1800 GP or 1 X 1 x 1800 = 1800 then under special we add in the charges per day which is divide by 5 (5divided by charges per day) 22/5 =4.4 and 4.4 X 1800 = 7920. Is this the correct way to calculate this if I put it on something mundane like a jewel? How much if I add it to a shield and what would the formula be for that?
amethal 10-01-04, 07:44 AM	Without having the book handy, I'd say you are calculating it wrong and it would be a lot cheaper than that (say about 1,800 gp). However, my advice to you (or your DM, if that is not you) is DO NOT allow this item. The item cost table is very much a last resort, for when you can't come up with a price any other way (e.g. by comparing to similar items). If the DM is not careful it can prove the most unbalancing "rule" in the whole game. If the players want a healing item, let them buy wands of cure light wounds (caster level 1) at 750 gp each for 50 charges.
Wildonion 10-01-04, 08:21 AM	-The wand is the way to go my friend. -Unless you want it to be in the shape of his holy symbol, then that would add some flavor to it. -Why use a Cure Light Wounds wand when you can do it (50 charges so 50 times) with a wand in the shape of the God's holy symbol? :)
WWAD 10-01-04, 09:51 AM	Ultimately it won't impact the game too much and they are paying for it (10 x the cost of a CLW wand). It doesn't have the power (d8+1) to cure hp during combat, so it's only going to help recover downtime that would be used to replenish healing spells which may only speed up your game. That's never a bad thing. Don't listen to these posts, the rules for making this item are fine. Sure a CLW wand is the base for this, but if the character has 8k to spend and doesn't mind having an item that's basically useless during combat after level 5'ish, let him.
CzarGarrett 10-01-04, 10:16 AM	IMO, 22 times a day is excessive. Look at other magic items. You either have at will, or something like 2 or 3 times a day. A Ring of Cure Light Wounds, I'd go with 2/hour. That gives plenty of downtime healing, especially if its at a higher level. And it won't give much of a chance for abuse. 22 times a day, going with a standard 4 member party, each gets 5 times a day + standard healing + any other healing outside of combat. Its almost too much.
Seeker95 10-01-04, 11:00 AM	Once you get beyond five times a day, you are in the realm of unlimited use. Unlimited use cure light wounds is not permitted by most sane DMs. It is an item similar to the Weapon of True Strike found in my signature. Want frequent cure light wounds ability? Get a wand. :D
Zherog 10-01-04, 11:41 AM	One of the players in my group has started looking into creating magic items and wants an item that casts cure light wounds 22 times a day. By the rules it looks like a Command word item which would be Spell level X caster Level X 1800 GP or 1 X 1 x 1800 = 1800 then under special we add in the charges per day which is divide by 5 (5divided by charges per day) 22/5 =4.4 and 4.4 X 1800 = 7920. Is this the correct way to calculate this if I put it on something mundane like a jewel? How much if I add it to a shield and what would the formula be for that? The formula for the item you are looking for would be: 1 (spell level) * 1 (caster level) * 1800 (command word) * 2 (unslotted) / ( 5 / 22) charges per day. This would give you a cost of 15840 GP.
Pyre 10-01-04, 01:17 PM	DND stays away from infinite curing items. I'm all for going with the wand. And for the record, any item, when using the formulae, will have a higher cost with more than 5 charges/day than it will with unlimited charges. The best item to look at for this is the ring of regeneration, the only unlimited curing item in the DMG. The twice an hour cure light wounds would be better than a ring of regeration until the character got above 15-20th level (Depending on the CL of the Cure spell). Also, even though the ring of regeneration encompasses the regeneration of limbs, I believe that it is not its primary ability (unless you are using the AD&D supplement with the special critical hits: Skills and Powers, or something like that I think). The Ring of Regeneration is 90,000. This item is not something I'd allow. For similar items: reference the Stronghold Builder's guide>Wonderous Architecture>Bed of Healing. I don't like that one either, so I didn't include it in my examples.
IceFractal 10-01-04, 07:49 PM	IMO, there's a reason 5 times/day is equal in price to "at will", and it's that items that would be overpowered when usable at will should instead be usable 5/day for the same price. For instance, a ring of CLW at will (basically a ring of fast healing 1d8+1) would cost waaaaaaaay more than 2,000 gp (maybe epic, or maybe just very high cost). However, for 2,000 gp, you can get a ring of CLW that works 5 times a day. In this context, a ring of CLW 10/day for 4,000 gp makes perfect sense, because "at will" costs a heck of a lot more than that (I'd probably base the price off of a Ring of Regeneration 5.5, minus some because Fast Healing isn't as good, plus some if it could be used on other people). The same thing solves the "true strike item" trick. 2,000 gp will get you True Strike 5/day, not at will. If you want it at will, the price would be around 200,000 gp minimum (Priced as a +10 weapon, as +10 to hit/+10 to damage seems about equal to +20 to hit), and probably more, as it stacks with the weapon bonus and is a circumstance bonus rather than enhancement. I have no proof that this is what's intended by the pricing, but it seems to work pretty well.
WWAD 10-02-04, 09:15 AM	A thread in the CO forum priced the true strike weapon around 150 million or something insane. I'm too lazy to do the search, but it's there if you're interested. And if anyone knows the rules enough to calculate that, it's the people in the CO forum.
Wildonion 10-02-04, 10:16 AM	Once you get beyond five times a day, you are in the realm of unlimited use. Unlimited use cure light wounds is not permitted by most sane DMs. It is an item similar to the Weapon of True Strike found in my signature. Want frequent cure light wounds ability? Get a wand. :D I want a sword of true strike. I'm going to play a Wizard and ask my DM: "Hey Scott?" "What?" "I can craft wonderouse items and I wanted to know, could I buy a brand new masterwork Rapier?" "You already have a +2 Rapier but fine." "Great, now can I enchant it with True Strike?" "Sure whatever." The next combat "I cast Tensor's Tranformation!" "Ok you are now a fighter type." next turn "I run up and attack the <name here> and get a 45" "WHAT?!?!?!" "Yep, 14+1+20" "Where did the plus 20 come from?" "The Rapier of True Strike, and While I'm at it can I cast Keen Edge and Permanancy on it?" Oh the laughs we would have......
Scion of Coldshard 10-02-04, 12:12 PM	The ring of regen is horribly, horribly overpriced. As such it does not make for a good comparison ;) Still though, there are other items that one could get instead. A lesser strand of prayer beads is 9,600 and it has the bead of blessing and the bead of healing. If your dm is a linient sort then a bead of healing on a strand by itself is 9k. Of course it can cast one spell per day which could be any one of the following: cure serious wounds, remove blindness/deafness, or remove disease Caster level 5, so it will heal 3d8+5. Not too shabby. There are other items that will help as well, but going back to the initial statement of the ring being overpriced.. for 90k one can have instead 1800 cure light wound potions. These are useable anytime by anyone, they can heal much faster, they are not level dependent, and they dont take up a slot. In total they heal 9900 (on average, but with 1800 dice rolled being even a couple of points away from this is nearly impossible). It would take a 20th level character pretty much being hurt all of the time with at least 20 points for 495 hours just to be able to heal this much. As for the unlimited cure light wounds item ::shrugs:: I would prefer to make something out of one of the newer spells. Grant Fast Healing X while worn. Make it require being on for a full day before working and it can be priced decently low. Little to no combat potential, but not much healing needed outside of combat except when in a rush. Perfect ;)
Seeker95 10-02-04, 12:58 PM	A thread in the CO forum priced the true strike weapon around 150 million or something insane.The weapon grants a +20 to hit. Bonus squared x 2000 20 x 20 x 2000 = 800,000gp It is epic, so the price is multiplied by 10 = 8,000,000. Some would argue that it is doubled because a weapon does not take up a body slot. = 16,000,000gp
darczero 10-02-04, 09:17 PM	Here's one for you: Tome and Blood version of Innate Spell; allows single spell to be used as spell-like ability at will by permanently giving up spell slot 8 levels higher, requires Silent Spell, Still Spell, and Quicken Spell, and unlike an item, cannot be stolen. Go with the item, and if your price sounds okay to you and the player in question, then by all means, do it. If you want to be hard on them, require special materials or something (make them go on a quest for it).
Wildonion 10-02-04, 10:51 PM	The weapon grants a +20 to hit. Bonus squared x 2000 20 x 20 x 2000 = 800,000gp It is epic, so the price is multiplied by 10 = 8,000,000. Some would argue that it is doubled because a weapon does not take up a body slot. = 16,000,000gp True Strike is a first level wizard spell :D
Seeker95 10-03-04, 08:56 AM	True Strike is a first level wizard spell :DRead my signature for my response to such malarkey. :P
Wildonion 10-03-04, 10:08 AM	I have read your sig, a lot. It is very funny, but for my campaigns it is by this method: <weapon name here> of True Strike: Craft Magic weapons and armor feat, an masterwork weapon (brand new never been used), the wizard to make the thing and one confused/distracted DM.
Seeker95 10-03-04, 10:49 AM	I concur with one of the pre-requisites being a very confused DM.
Bort333 10-03-04, 11:30 AM	Activating an item with true strike has a standard action. Thats not really a big deal, your only fight half of the rounds and only one attack. I don't see how thats broken unless you pull a fast one by your DM. As far as cure light wounds... meh. Wands of cure light do almost as good. If you buy 10 of them (thats 7,500) thats 500 charges of cure light. 500d8+500 = a lot of healing, probably not that much needed for a LONG time.
Mrvice 10-04-04, 03:28 AM	I say give the guy the item. Then do the following thingsthings: 1. Make it so he can't control when the ring cures him. IE: Make it intellegent or make it act on a regular interval. 2. Apply what happens to a character when they start recieving to much positive energy. IE: That character begins to exhibit an aura of good and choas, they become either fat or bloated, and given to much they can possibly die. 3. Make the item cursed, and have it be that if that character removes the curse, they also remove the magic of the ring. The obvious solution to this problem is to simply damage yourself when the ring's healing becomes nonbenifical. Which is probably the route the player will go, once he discovers the unfortent side effects of this ring. You counter ballance this by having all this damage be treated as ritual scaring, which draws the attention of an evil deity. That said deity then sends a High level or possibly a group of high level devoties to attempt to convert or perhaps sacrifice this character. Upon meeting this character these devoties realize the aura of good around him, and decide to kill him instead. I know this sounds unecisary, but this item is an attempt to unballance your campign and as such should be treated with the upmost cruleity. Let this stand as a warning to all players who would dare try this again. Mr. Vice Please Pardon my spelling
Magus Gar Kan 10-04-04, 01:24 PM	Actually there is an item "Bow of True Arrows", the catch is that it is a standard action to use, so you cannot attack in the same round that you activate it's power (barring any specific feats, items, spells, etc). Also, it is obscenely expensive. Also in reguards to the CLW item, where did he come up with 22 times a day? Also it is worth noting that at minimum the item cures 1d8+1 hp per round, taking a standard action to use. at the level the group would be able to afford such an item, it does not seem that overpowered to me.
Zherog 10-04-04, 03:17 PM	Actually there is an item "Bow of True Arrows", the catch is that it is a standard action to use, so you cannot attack in the same round that you activate it's power (barring any specific feats, items, spells, etc). Also, it is obscenely expensive. In addition, that bow is a Spell Trigger item (sort of like a wand). That means the spell must be on your spell list to use it.
Mrvice 10-05-04, 06:02 AM	The problem is that it's removing a sinkhole from the world econemy. YOu can say all you want about buying wands, but remember, if players have this item, it will effectively remove all need for buying healing agents in game. As someone earlier said, you can buy 10 wands of cure light for 7500 gp and thats 500 cure light wounds. Remember that that item has to be used by someone who can cast the spell and wands do eventualy run out. This item is effectively gving the players a second level cleric who has devoted is entire assortement of first and second level spells to healing and nothing but healing. Just think about it Mr Vice I sorry for the possible lack of clerity in this post, I"m on pain killers for a torn muscle in my back and it's effecting my ability to write.
Wildonion 10-05-04, 08:21 AM	Torn muscle? Ouch hope ya get better :)
Coran 10-05-04, 02:23 PM	the item i would cap it at 5 or make it unlimited at double the price as well it isn't taking an item slot so an adiitional double. as well if you find it unbalances the campaign then the DMs little magic munchkin can relieve said characters of said item ;)