Celestial Names [Archive] - Wizards Community

Celestial Names [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Thrudjelmer
10-25-03, 01:00 PM Personally, I'm just looking for a decent name for a hound archon NPC...

...but also, what specific names and kind of naming conventions do you use for celestial creatures in general?
God of Slivers
10-25-03, 03:20 PM That's a good question. I too would like to know some celestial names, I just don't know what to name the half-celestial characters I use.
Quathmoir Dlaeh Issarhai
10-25-03, 03:56 PM Use combinations of elven and hebrew, and you can't lose. I'll give you a few ideas for hound archons:

Ne'eman
{hebrew: loyal}
Kelevamin
{hebrew: kelev=dog amin=trustworthy, but sounds all elven}
Orfisomer
{hebrew: orfi = the back of my neck; somer = sits up, refaring to hair, so Orfisomer means "the hair on the back of my neck sits up"}
Tlafcedek
{hebrew for "Paw of Justice"}
Krasatan
{Hebrew: kra=tear satan=devil. "Tear the Devil" is a jewish kabalistic mantra used to remove illness or infestation. I recomend giving this name to some paragon of the Hound Archons}
Ormeialel
{Hebrew: Howling Light, or=light meialel=howls}
Tofar Vashen
{hebrew: Claw And Tooth. tofar=claw shen=tooth. Not particualrily exaplted, but perfectly canine.}
Barze'ev
{hebrew: Wolflord}
Koredror {hebrew: Freedomcaller. dror=freedom kore=calls}
Klavcedek
{hebrew: Hound of Justice}
Ze'veonel
{hebrew: God's wolverine. se'evon=wolverine el=god}
Ze'evor
{hebrew: Wolf of Light, ze'ev=wolf or=light}
Klavlavel
{hebrew: God's puppy. klavlav=puppy el=god}
Apizakur
{hebrew: my nose is alert. api = my nose, zakur=alert}
Elinavakh
{hebrew: my god barked. eli = my god, navakh=barked}
Kolishma
{hebrew: hear my voice. koli= my voice, shma=hear}
Klishim'u
{same as above, but shim'u is plural for shma, a command spoken to more than one}
Khad-ozen
{hebrew: shap-eared, or one of sharm ears. khad=sharp ozen=ear}
Harodef
{hebrew: the Chaser, or "he who chases", "he who hounds"}
Mevituv
{hebrew: bringer of goodness. mevi=brings tuv=goodness}
Galezadon
{hebrew: find Evil, kinda. gale=find zadon=evilness}
Shakhro'a
{hebrew: bite badness/evil. shakh=bite ro'a=badness, but has no positive slang-meaning}
Erla'ad
{hebrew: Everaware, Everwake. er=awake/aware la'ad=forever}
Katalshed
{hebrew: Demonslayer, kinda. katal=slew shed=demon}

I expect Sabres... ugh... i mean Savras to come and add some more:smirk:
Arilou_skiff
10-25-03, 04:34 PM Don't forget Aziraphale :D (Reference)

From PS:

Trias (The Betrayer): Fallen Astral Deva, thrown out of the heavens because he rebelled against the Celestial Lords decision to stay out of the Blood War. Attempted to Raise a host of fiends to invade Celestia in order to frighten the Lords into taking action.

Archimedes: Fallen Solar, N, wages a permanent personal war against the Baatezu on the second layer of Baator, thrown out of the hosts for "smiting too hard".

Ygriel: Movanic Deva, LG, spying on the Tanar'ri of the Abyss.
Quathmoir Dlaeh Issarhai
10-25-03, 07:51 PM Oh, Skiff! Comeon, honor the tradition, and give him homebrewed fynish names for hound archons!
Originally posted by Arilou_skiff
Don't forget Aziraphale :D (Reference) I didn't get it :confused:
Kingrames
10-25-03, 09:54 PM what kind of campaign are you running? if you've got a specific hound archon, why not use the same hound archon I've got?

It would be really cool to see different campaigns weaving NPC's into each other.

Hmmm...

perhaps you should start a new thread requesting Celestial and Exalted NPC's? I'll contribute...
Kobold Avenger
10-25-03, 11:12 PM For Angels and Archons go with more Hebrew or Arabic sounding names. Though a more Hindi like name might also be appropriate for Devas and Asuras at least. With Eladrins just go for some more Celtic sounding names.
Kingrames
10-25-03, 11:22 PM I generally just go with "make something up. if it doesn't make sense, make it make sense."

you'd be surprised how many interesting storylines you can create by making a mistake.

for example, a character in your NPC's background might accidentally be very similar to a NPC in one of the PC's backgrounds, and you could over the course of the adventure find out that they are one and the same.
Quathmoir Dlaeh Issarhai
10-25-03, 11:46 PM Originally posted by Kobold Avenger
For Angels and Archons go with more Hebrew or Arabic sounding names. You got Savras and myself (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1667964#post1667964) as hebrew name-generators, and for arabic i would recommend Dante, but i'm not sure he's ever posting on the Mature Access boards.
the Horc
10-25-03, 11:56 PM Originally posted by Quathmoir Dlaeh Issarhai

Tlafcedek
{hebrew for "Paw of Justice"}

I now have to have a Hound Archon in my campaign named Tlafcedek.

EDIT: I just looked it up... Tlaf means "hoof". Would work for a Cervidal, but not a hound archon.
Quathmoir Dlaeh Issarhai
10-26-03, 12:37 AM Originally posted by the Horc
EDIT: I just looked it up... Tlaf means "hoof". Would work for a Cervidal, but not a hound archon. Looked it up where?
Look, i'm a jewish israely, Hebrew is my native tongue, so bellive me when i tell you that Tlaf means Paw, whereas hebrew for Hoof is Parsa.
the Horc
10-26-03, 01:08 AM Guess my hebrew english dictionary is out of date, or uses a different dialect. What you gonna do?

Bantam-Megiddo Hebrew & English dictionary.

Understand, when I saw the name ("Paw of Justice"), I thought that was neat, so I looked it up in my dictionary (several years old) and it gave me a differing answer to the one you gave. So I pointed this out.
Anacreon
10-26-03, 07:59 AM Originally posted by Quathmoir Dlaeh Issarhai

Tlafcedek
{hebrew for "Paw of Justice"}
Barze'ev
{hebrew: Wolflord}

Just two minor corrections: "Tlaf" is actually Aramaic. In Hebrew the word would be "Telef".
"Bar" is another Aramaic word which means "son" rather than "lord". the Hebrew word would be "Ben".
Lord in Hebrew would be: "Adon" (Adon Olam - Master of the World is a common epithet to God), "Mar" (although in Modern Hebrew is usually used for Mr.), "Rozen" (a biblical nobility title of unclear origin, in Modern Hebrew usually used to translate the title "Count").
Arilou_skiff
10-26-03, 08:21 AM EvOriginally posted by Quathmoir Dlaeh Issarhai
Oh, Skiff! Comeon, honor the tradition, and give him homebrewed fynish names for hound archons!
I didn't get it :confused:

Fynish? You mean finnish? I don't speak finnish!

As for not getting it: Aziraphale is an angel (the angel really) in Terry Pratchett's excellent apolypticall satire "Good Omens".

Swedish does not have any large tradition of angels or other "celestial" beings (we tend to focus on the baddies it seems) But I can give you a few words made up of the "right ingredients" :D

Light: Ljus
Bravery: Mod
Wisdom: Vishet
Compassion: Medkänsla
Eternity: Evighet
Thrudjelmer
10-26-03, 01:34 PM Originally posted by Anacreon
Just two minor corrections: "Tlaf" is actually Aramaic.

You just happen to have an Aramaic dictionary lying around, or have you spent time studying it? :cool:

One of these days, I'm gonna have to dig my Deluxe Universal Translator software out of mothballs to assist in creating names from other languages... won't have Aramaic, but it does have a significant number of languages to work with.
Anacreon
10-26-03, 04:55 PM Although my main field of study is Greek and Roman philology, I spent some time studying Ancient Hebrew philology. And if you know anything of the history of the Hebrew language, you know that Mishnaic Hebrew was very much influenced by Aramaic. So much so that the least one must learn in order to have any sort of comprehension of Mishnaic Hebrew morphology and vocabulary, is the rules of transporting of words from Aramaic to Hebrew. Thus one learns to recognize Aramaic forms whether one likes to or not.
Quathmoir Dlaeh Issarhai
10-26-03, 09:10 PM 1} Aramaic words absorbed into hebrew often have somewhat different meanings in hebrew, than those they had in the origin. Aspecially in combination.
"Bar" indeed comes from the aramic word for "son", but in hebrew, when used as a prefix it vaguely means "owner" or "the owner of". A lucky bastard is "mamzer bar-mazal".

2} Now for tlafaim {paws}:
The word "telef", when bent to a smikhut, bcomes "tlaf". In "Hound of Justice" the "of" is an obvious call for smikhut, and thus Tlafcedek, and not some monstrocity like "telef shel cedek".

3} The word for Lord is "sar".
Read the bible, all the ministers {in medieval european terms a minister is a lord} are Sarim. In modern hebrew Sar also means "minister", same as with some european countries where constitutionary monarchy is the governmental system.

4} Mar and Adon:
Mar is closer to Segnor or Souvereign {i'm weak on spelling}. Marut, a word derived from "Mar" means sourereinity or segnorship. "Nafalti takhat maruto" = I fell into {under} his souvereinity/reign
Adon i must translate as "Master" for lack of better-suited analog. It lacks the "skill" aspect of the word Master, but otherwise fits.

5} *casts "Slay Self"*
Stupid Dlaeh!
Sorry, Skiff, i confused you with another cool person around here. Now i recall you were the resident swedish-namer, and can't remember the other guy's name... but there was a resident finnish-namer, i'm sure.
He Who Lurks
10-26-03, 09:37 PM "Aziraphale" is the name of the angel in "Good Omens", an absolutely hilarious book about Armageddon. It's by Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett.

If I recall correctly, he was the angel who was supposed to guard the Garden of Eden against all who would enter, but he ended up giving Adam and Eve his flaming sword so they could survive outside of Paradise, because he felt sorry for them. Now that's a real angel.

But as far as names go, I agree that Hebrew is probably the way to go. You might try some Latin-esque names, too (I've always thought that Latin was rather grand-sounding).

I imagine that celestials are fond of adjective-titles as well. Things like ____ the Just, ____ the Merciful, ____ the Righteous, etc...
Quathmoir Dlaeh Issarhai
10-27-03, 01:50 AM Originally posted by He Who Lurks
I imagine that celestials are fond of adjective-titles as well. Things like ____ the Just, ____ the Merciful, ____ the Righteous, etc... And i see it as an obvious request to trranslate those into hebrew as well {deamn, sometimes i don't belive how annoying i am...}!

the Merciful = ha Rakhman, ha Rakhum {female: ha Rakhmanit, ha Rekhuma}
the Righteous = ha Cadkani {female: ha Cadkanit}
the Just =... ugh, either i'm rusty, or there's really no good analog for that word, so here are some substitutes:
the Fair = ha Hogen
the Decent = ha Hagun

Heyyyy! i've an idea: What did they call the fallen angel {and arch villain} in Neverworld?
Anacreon
10-27-03, 05:16 AM "bar mazal" is completely interchangible with "ben mazal", it is by no means "owner of luck", the concept of "owning" luck is entirely alien...

as for "telef", it is in the same mishkal as "degel", and just as one wouldn't say "dgal ha-medinah" in smikhut, analogically, one wouldn't say "tlaf ha-kelev" unless one's speech is heavily influenced by Aramaic.

sorry to bore the rest of you in the knit picking of Hebrew morphology
Arilou_skiff
10-27-03, 07:01 AM I've also found that Greek names are good for celestials,
Archimedes, Alexander ("Defender of men"), Demetrios, Pericles, Achilleús, Castor, Cassandra... All work as well. I've a tendencay to let my CG celestials (mostly the CG aasimon) be pretty greek-inspired (partially because Arborea is supposed to be the home of the Greek Pantheon)
Anacreon
10-27-03, 09:40 AM the element "kle" in many greek names means "glory", this way: Sophokles (glory of the wise), Themistokles (glory of justice), Kleopatra and Patroklos (both mean glory of the father), Perikles (all around glory).

I always thought Eladrins should have Celtic names. Unfortunately I know nothing of Irish / Cornish / Welsh / Scott / Manx etc.
GanarothLes
10-27-03, 11:23 AM Heyyyy! i've an idea: What did they call the fallen angel {and arch villain} in Neverworld?

In Neverwhere, by Gaiman? Islington, I believe.
Arilou_skiff
10-27-03, 12:35 PM Ah, good old Islington (or rather not!)
Quathmoir Dlaeh Issarhai
10-28-03, 01:45 AM Originally posted by GanarothLes
In Neverwhere, by Gaiman? Islington, I believe.Yessssss, that's it, thancue Ganaroth!

Anacreon:
Mishkal is irrelevant. Kheder becomes "khadar-" in smikhut, yet degel doesn't become "dagal-". Mishkal has little to do with the way smikhut forms.
Anacreon
10-28-03, 03:42 AM I just checked Even Shoshan dictionary, It does not recognize tlaf as a word (not even in smikhut).
(and btw Kheder is not the same mishkal as degel and telef, and mishkal is very relevant)
Gadodel
10-28-03, 04:11 AM One of these days, I may just have to learn Hebrew. A very fascinating language....

What about the word "Fetch"...as in "retrieve"?

That might be a good name for a Hound Archon.
Anacreon
10-28-03, 04:31 AM I didn't think of it untill you asked for it, but there are actually two forms of imperative 2nd pers. masc. sg. for "fetch", and they do sound like an onomatopoeia for a bark...

it's: 'have' (pronounced as two syllables and not as the English word) or 'hav'. Of the two the second is more archaic, although the entire imperative is slowly becoming archaic in Modern Hebrew, being replaced in colloquial speech with the future indicative. The future indicative 2nd pers. masc. sg. of fetch is 'tavi'.
Gadodel
10-28-03, 05:17 AM Cool.

This one may sound odd too. Often, we humans refer to our Canines with affection; rather than by name. For example: the Canine does something correct or good and we merely say "Good Boy" or "Good Girl".

Rather than a literal translation, does the language consider "affection" and have words for it. I guess what I am looking for is Hebrew Equivalents for "nicknames".
Anacreon
10-28-03, 05:48 AM canine pet names? are you sure that's what you want to call your character?
Gadodel
10-28-03, 05:55 AM Well, if it said in another language; why not?

Besides, even Human characters have nicknames. Some are menacing like Mirt of Waterdeep..."Old Wolf". Azoun's was "The Purple Dragon". They were said both in affection and in respect.

I figure a Hound Archon would have many qualities similar to a canine. Eager to please. Intelligent. Obedient. Above all, Playful!

So, it stands to reason that being a Celestial and without pride, the Hound Archon just might have an amusing name.
Quathmoir Dlaeh Issarhai
10-29-03, 01:13 AM Originally posted by Anacreon
I didn't think of it untill you asked for it, but there are actually two forms of imperative 2nd pers. masc. sg. for "fetch", and they do sound like an onomatopoeia for a bark...
it's: 'have' (pronounced as two syllables and not as the English word) or 'hav'.Hey, you're right! Hav/Have means bring, {i don't think "fetch" has an equivalent}, and its sound is perfect ofr a hound archon!
{Also, ten kaf akhi: we made Gadodel wanna learn hebrew:smirk:}

Haseg {hebrew: Get}
Tfos {hebrew: Catch}
Zanek {hebrew: Leap}
Tkof {hebrew: Attack}
Sa' {hebrew: literall, it means "Travel", but is used as a "Go!" command, and as an attacking command for dogs or for me.}
Hav {hebrew: bring} is probably still the best and simplest name anyone ever thought of here, so Anacreon - i bow befortht thee :bow:.
Or maybe we could enhance it to "Havli" {hebrew: Bring [to] me}, but it could spoil the simplicity...
And well, i still think my original list is pretty good:
Originally posted by... well, me!
Ne'eman
{hebrew: loyal}
Kelevamin
{hebrew: kelev=dog amin=trustworthy, but sounds all elven}
Orfisomer
{hebrew: orfi = the back of my neck; somer = sits up, refaring to hair, so Orfisomer means "the hair on the back of my neck sits up"}
Tlafcedek
{hebrew for "Paw of Justice"}
Krasatan
{Hebrew: kra=tear satan=devil. "Tear the Devil" is a jewish kabalistic mantra used to remove illness or infestation. I recomend giving this name to some paragon of the Hound Archons}
Ormeialel
{Hebrew: Howling Light, or=light meialel=howls}
Tofar Vashen
{hebrew: Claw And Tooth. tofar=claw shen=tooth. Not particualrily exaplted, but perfectly canine.}
Barze'ev
{hebrew: Wolflord}
Koredror {hebrew: Freedomcaller. dror=freedom kore=calls}
Klavcedek
{hebrew: Hound of Justice}
Ze'veonel
{hebrew: God's wolverine. se'evon=wolverine el=god}
Ze'evor
{hebrew: Wolf of Light, ze'ev=wolf or=light}
Klavlavel
{hebrew: God's puppy. klavlav=puppy el=god}
Apizakur
{hebrew: my nose is alert. api = my nose, zakur=alert}
Elinavakh
{hebrew: my god barked. eli = my god, navakh=barked}
Kolishma
{hebrew: hear my voice. koli= my voice, shma=hear}
Klishim'u
{same as above, but shim'u is plural for shma, a command spoken to more than one}
Khad-ozen
{hebrew: shap-eared, or one of sharm ears. khad=sharp ozen=ear}
Harodef
{hebrew: the Chaser, or "he who chases", "he who hounds"}
Mevituv
{hebrew: bringer of goodness. mevi=brings tuv=goodness}
Galezadon
{hebrew: find Evil, kinda. gale=find zadon=evilness}
Shakhro'a
{hebrew: bite badness/evil. shakh=bite ro'a=badness, but has no positive slang-meaning}
Erla'ad
{hebrew: Everaware, Everwake. er=awake/aware la'ad=forever}
Katalshed
{hebrew: Demonslayer, kinda. katal=slew shed=demon}
Originally posted by Anacreon
imperative is slowly becoming archaic in Modern Hebrew, being replaced in colloquial speech with the future indicative.
Yepp, and i sodding HATE this tendency. I actually keep using civui as it was meant to be, {yeah, outa princip'} and people aren't even surprised... guess it just gives me some "classic style" immage.
Anacreon
10-30-03, 02:11 AM Quathmoir Dlaeh Issarhai: I agree. I also try to use the imperative whenever I can, but I'm afraid it's only a matter of time before it becomes obsolete.

Gadodel: There are no idiomatic pet names for dogs that I'm aware of. 'Kelev Tov' means good dog, Kalba Tova is the fem. Other than that I usually use diminutives with my dogs.
Quathmoir Dlaeh Issarhai
10-30-03, 06:16 AM "Kushi" is the most iconic name for both a black dog and a black cat, and means "Nygger". Same goes for jinger cats and dogs named "Jinji" {no nead in translations here}. "As" is popular for large dogs, and is the hebrew pronouncation of Ace. During the late sixties, the name Benzo was very popular for dogs, but this is far from being appropriate for a hound archon, seeing as it's a short for "ben zona" witch means "son of an umberlee". Many reppoes mistook commands for iconical names, and thus the most typical commands became iconical names for dogs among reppoes; "Ragli" for example, is a command for the dog to stick to your foot.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Thrudjelmer 10-25-03, 01:00 PM	Personally, I'm just looking for a decent name for a hound archon NPC... ...but also, what specific names and kind of naming conventions do you use for celestial creatures in general?
God of Slivers 10-25-03, 03:20 PM	That's a good question. I too would like to know some celestial names, I just don't know what to name the half-celestial characters I use.
Quathmoir Dlaeh Issarhai 10-25-03, 03:56 PM	Use combinations of elven and hebrew, and you can't lose. I'll give you a few ideas for hound archons: Ne'eman {hebrew: loyal} Kelevamin {hebrew: kelev=dog amin=trustworthy, but sounds all elven} Orfisomer {hebrew: orfi = the back of my neck; somer = sits up, refaring to hair, so Orfisomer means "the hair on the back of my neck sits up"} Tlafcedek {hebrew for "Paw of Justice"} Krasatan {Hebrew: kra=tear satan=devil. "Tear the Devil" is a jewish kabalistic mantra used to remove illness or infestation. I recomend giving this name to some paragon of the Hound Archons} Ormeialel {Hebrew: Howling Light, or=light meialel=howls} Tofar Vashen {hebrew: Claw And Tooth. tofar=claw shen=tooth. Not particualrily exaplted, but perfectly canine.} Barze'ev {hebrew: Wolflord} Koredror {hebrew: Freedomcaller. dror=freedom kore=calls} Klavcedek {hebrew: Hound of Justice} Ze'veonel {hebrew: God's wolverine. se'evon=wolverine el=god} Ze'evor {hebrew: Wolf of Light, ze'ev=wolf or=light} Klavlavel {hebrew: God's puppy. klavlav=puppy el=god} Apizakur {hebrew: my nose is alert. api = my nose, zakur=alert} Elinavakh {hebrew: my god barked. eli = my god, navakh=barked} Kolishma {hebrew: hear my voice. koli= my voice, shma=hear} Klishim'u {same as above, but shim'u is plural for shma, a command spoken to more than one} Khad-ozen {hebrew: shap-eared, or one of sharm ears. khad=sharp ozen=ear} Harodef {hebrew: the Chaser, or "he who chases", "he who hounds"} Mevituv {hebrew: bringer of goodness. mevi=brings tuv=goodness} Galezadon {hebrew: find Evil, kinda. gale=find zadon=evilness} Shakhro'a {hebrew: bite badness/evil. shakh=bite ro'a=badness, but has no positive slang-meaning} Erla'ad {hebrew: Everaware, Everwake. er=awake/aware la'ad=forever} Katalshed {hebrew: Demonslayer, kinda. katal=slew shed=demon} I expect Sabres... ugh... i mean Savras to come and add some more:smirk:
Arilou_skiff 10-25-03, 04:34 PM	Don't forget Aziraphale :D (Reference) From PS: Trias (The Betrayer): Fallen Astral Deva, thrown out of the heavens because he rebelled against the Celestial Lords decision to stay out of the Blood War. Attempted to Raise a host of fiends to invade Celestia in order to frighten the Lords into taking action. Archimedes: Fallen Solar, N, wages a permanent personal war against the Baatezu on the second layer of Baator, thrown out of the hosts for "smiting too hard". Ygriel: Movanic Deva, LG, spying on the Tanar'ri of the Abyss.
Quathmoir Dlaeh Issarhai 10-25-03, 07:51 PM	Oh, Skiff! Comeon, honor the tradition, and give him homebrewed fynish names for hound archons! Originally posted by Arilou_skiff Don't forget Aziraphale :D (Reference) I didn't get it :confused:
Kingrames 10-25-03, 09:54 PM	what kind of campaign are you running? if you've got a specific hound archon, why not use the same hound archon I've got? It would be really cool to see different campaigns weaving NPC's into each other. Hmmm... perhaps you should start a new thread requesting Celestial and Exalted NPC's? I'll contribute...
Kobold Avenger 10-25-03, 11:12 PM	For Angels and Archons go with more Hebrew or Arabic sounding names. Though a more Hindi like name might also be appropriate for Devas and Asuras at least. With Eladrins just go for some more Celtic sounding names.
Kingrames 10-25-03, 11:22 PM	I generally just go with "make something up. if it doesn't make sense, make it make sense." you'd be surprised how many interesting storylines you can create by making a mistake. for example, a character in your NPC's background might accidentally be very similar to a NPC in one of the PC's backgrounds, and you could over the course of the adventure find out that they are one and the same.
Quathmoir Dlaeh Issarhai 10-25-03, 11:46 PM	Originally posted by Kobold Avenger For Angels and Archons go with more Hebrew or Arabic sounding names. You got Savras and myself (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1667964#post1667964) as hebrew name-generators, and for arabic i would recommend Dante, but i'm not sure he's ever posting on the Mature Access boards.
the Horc 10-25-03, 11:56 PM	Originally posted by Quathmoir Dlaeh Issarhai Tlafcedek {hebrew for "Paw of Justice"} I now have to have a Hound Archon in my campaign named Tlafcedek. EDIT: I just looked it up... Tlaf means "hoof". Would work for a Cervidal, but not a hound archon.
Quathmoir Dlaeh Issarhai 10-26-03, 12:37 AM	Originally posted by the Horc EDIT: I just looked it up... Tlaf means "hoof". Would work for a Cervidal, but not a hound archon. Looked it up where? Look, i'm a jewish israely, Hebrew is my native tongue, so bellive me when i tell you that Tlaf means Paw, whereas hebrew for Hoof is Parsa.
the Horc 10-26-03, 01:08 AM	Guess my hebrew english dictionary is out of date, or uses a different dialect. What you gonna do? Bantam-Megiddo Hebrew & English dictionary. Understand, when I saw the name ("Paw of Justice"), I thought that was neat, so I looked it up in my dictionary (several years old) and it gave me a differing answer to the one you gave. So I pointed this out.
Anacreon 10-26-03, 07:59 AM	Originally posted by Quathmoir Dlaeh Issarhai Tlafcedek {hebrew for "Paw of Justice"} Barze'ev {hebrew: Wolflord} Just two minor corrections: "Tlaf" is actually Aramaic. In Hebrew the word would be "Telef". "Bar" is another Aramaic word which means "son" rather than "lord". the Hebrew word would be "Ben". Lord in Hebrew would be: "Adon" (Adon Olam - Master of the World is a common epithet to God), "Mar" (although in Modern Hebrew is usually used for Mr.), "Rozen" (a biblical nobility title of unclear origin, in Modern Hebrew usually used to translate the title "Count").
Arilou_skiff 10-26-03, 08:21 AM	EvOriginally posted by Quathmoir Dlaeh Issarhai Oh, Skiff! Comeon, honor the tradition, and give him homebrewed fynish names for hound archons! I didn't get it :confused: Fynish? You mean finnish? I don't speak finnish! As for not getting it: Aziraphale is an angel (the angel really) in Terry Pratchett's excellent apolypticall satire "Good Omens". Swedish does not have any large tradition of angels or other "celestial" beings (we tend to focus on the baddies it seems) But I can give you a few words made up of the "right ingredients" :D Light: Ljus Bravery: Mod Wisdom: Vishet Compassion: Medkänsla Eternity: Evighet
Thrudjelmer 10-26-03, 01:34 PM	Originally posted by Anacreon Just two minor corrections: "Tlaf" is actually Aramaic. You just happen to have an Aramaic dictionary lying around, or have you spent time studying it? :cool: One of these days, I'm gonna have to dig my Deluxe Universal Translator software out of mothballs to assist in creating names from other languages... won't have Aramaic, but it does have a significant number of languages to work with.
Anacreon 10-26-03, 04:55 PM	Although my main field of study is Greek and Roman philology, I spent some time studying Ancient Hebrew philology. And if you know anything of the history of the Hebrew language, you know that Mishnaic Hebrew was very much influenced by Aramaic. So much so that the least one must learn in order to have any sort of comprehension of Mishnaic Hebrew morphology and vocabulary, is the rules of transporting of words from Aramaic to Hebrew. Thus one learns to recognize Aramaic forms whether one likes to or not.
Quathmoir Dlaeh Issarhai 10-26-03, 09:10 PM	1} Aramaic words absorbed into hebrew often have somewhat different meanings in hebrew, than those they had in the origin. Aspecially in combination. "Bar" indeed comes from the aramic word for "son", but in hebrew, when used as a prefix it vaguely means "owner" or "the owner of". A lucky bastard is "mamzer bar-mazal". 2} Now for tlafaim {paws}: The word "telef", when bent to a smikhut, bcomes "tlaf". In "Hound of Justice" the "of" is an obvious call for smikhut, and thus Tlafcedek, and not some monstrocity like "telef shel cedek". 3} The word for Lord is "sar". Read the bible, all the ministers {in medieval european terms a minister is a lord} are Sarim. In modern hebrew Sar also means "minister", same as with some european countries where constitutionary monarchy is the governmental system. 4} Mar and Adon: Mar is closer to Segnor or Souvereign {i'm weak on spelling}. Marut, a word derived from "Mar" means sourereinity or segnorship. "Nafalti takhat maruto" = I fell into {under} his souvereinity/reign Adon i must translate as "Master" for lack of better-suited analog. It lacks the "skill" aspect of the word Master, but otherwise fits. 5} casts "Slay Self" Stupid Dlaeh! Sorry, Skiff, i confused you with another cool person around here. Now i recall you were the resident swedish-namer, and can't remember the other guy's name... but there was a resident finnish-namer, i'm sure.
He Who Lurks 10-26-03, 09:37 PM	"Aziraphale" is the name of the angel in "Good Omens", an absolutely hilarious book about Armageddon. It's by Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett. If I recall correctly, he was the angel who was supposed to guard the Garden of Eden against all who would enter, but he ended up giving Adam and Eve his flaming sword so they could survive outside of Paradise, because he felt sorry for them. Now that's a real angel. But as far as names go, I agree that Hebrew is probably the way to go. You might try some Latin-esque names, too (I've always thought that Latin was rather grand-sounding). I imagine that celestials are fond of adjective-titles as well. Things like ____ the Just, ____ the Merciful, ____ the Righteous, etc...
Quathmoir Dlaeh Issarhai 10-27-03, 01:50 AM	Originally posted by He Who Lurks I imagine that celestials are fond of adjective-titles as well. Things like ____ the Just, ____ the Merciful, ____ the Righteous, etc... And i see it as an obvious request to trranslate those into hebrew as well {deamn, sometimes i don't belive how annoying i am...}! the Merciful = ha Rakhman, ha Rakhum {female: ha Rakhmanit, ha Rekhuma} the Righteous = ha Cadkani {female: ha Cadkanit} the Just =... ugh, either i'm rusty, or there's really no good analog for that word, so here are some substitutes: the Fair = ha Hogen the Decent = ha Hagun Heyyyy! i've an idea: What did they call the fallen angel {and arch villain} in Neverworld?
Anacreon 10-27-03, 05:16 AM	"bar mazal" is completely interchangible with "ben mazal", it is by no means "owner of luck", the concept of "owning" luck is entirely alien... as for "telef", it is in the same mishkal as "degel", and just as one wouldn't say "dgal ha-medinah" in smikhut, analogically, one wouldn't say "tlaf ha-kelev" unless one's speech is heavily influenced by Aramaic. sorry to bore the rest of you in the knit picking of Hebrew morphology
Arilou_skiff 10-27-03, 07:01 AM	I've also found that Greek names are good for celestials, Archimedes, Alexander ("Defender of men"), Demetrios, Pericles, Achilleús, Castor, Cassandra... All work as well. I've a tendencay to let my CG celestials (mostly the CG aasimon) be pretty greek-inspired (partially because Arborea is supposed to be the home of the Greek Pantheon)
Anacreon 10-27-03, 09:40 AM	the element "kle" in many greek names means "glory", this way: Sophokles (glory of the wise), Themistokles (glory of justice), Kleopatra and Patroklos (both mean glory of the father), Perikles (all around glory). I always thought Eladrins should have Celtic names. Unfortunately I know nothing of Irish / Cornish / Welsh / Scott / Manx etc.
GanarothLes 10-27-03, 11:23 AM	Heyyyy! i've an idea: What did they call the fallen angel {and arch villain} in Neverworld? In Neverwhere, by Gaiman? Islington, I believe.
Arilou_skiff 10-27-03, 12:35 PM	Ah, good old Islington (or rather not!)
Quathmoir Dlaeh Issarhai 10-28-03, 01:45 AM	Originally posted by GanarothLes In Neverwhere, by Gaiman? Islington, I believe.Yessssss, that's it, thancue Ganaroth! Anacreon: Mishkal is irrelevant. Kheder becomes "khadar-" in smikhut, yet degel doesn't become "dagal-". Mishkal has little to do with the way smikhut forms.
Anacreon 10-28-03, 03:42 AM	I just checked Even Shoshan dictionary, It does not recognize tlaf as a word (not even in smikhut). (and btw Kheder is not the same mishkal as degel and telef, and mishkal is very relevant)
Gadodel 10-28-03, 04:11 AM	One of these days, I may just have to learn Hebrew. A very fascinating language.... What about the word "Fetch"...as in "retrieve"? That might be a good name for a Hound Archon.
Anacreon 10-28-03, 04:31 AM	I didn't think of it untill you asked for it, but there are actually two forms of imperative 2nd pers. masc. sg. for "fetch", and they do sound like an onomatopoeia for a bark... it's: 'have' (pronounced as two syllables and not as the English word) or 'hav'. Of the two the second is more archaic, although the entire imperative is slowly becoming archaic in Modern Hebrew, being replaced in colloquial speech with the future indicative. The future indicative 2nd pers. masc. sg. of fetch is 'tavi'.
Gadodel 10-28-03, 05:17 AM	Cool. This one may sound odd too. Often, we humans refer to our Canines with affection; rather than by name. For example: the Canine does something correct or good and we merely say "Good Boy" or "Good Girl". Rather than a literal translation, does the language consider "affection" and have words for it. I guess what I am looking for is Hebrew Equivalents for "nicknames".
Anacreon 10-28-03, 05:48 AM	canine pet names? are you sure that's what you want to call your character?
Gadodel 10-28-03, 05:55 AM	Well, if it said in another language; why not? Besides, even Human characters have nicknames. Some are menacing like Mirt of Waterdeep..."Old Wolf". Azoun's was "The Purple Dragon". They were said both in affection and in respect. I figure a Hound Archon would have many qualities similar to a canine. Eager to please. Intelligent. Obedient. Above all, Playful! So, it stands to reason that being a Celestial and without pride, the Hound Archon just might have an amusing name.
Quathmoir Dlaeh Issarhai 10-29-03, 01:13 AM	Originally posted by Anacreon I didn't think of it untill you asked for it, but there are actually two forms of imperative 2nd pers. masc. sg. for "fetch", and they do sound like an onomatopoeia for a bark... it's: 'have' (pronounced as two syllables and not as the English word) or 'hav'.Hey, you're right! Hav/Have means bring, {i don't think "fetch" has an equivalent}, and its sound is perfect ofr a hound archon! {Also, ten kaf akhi: we made Gadodel wanna learn hebrew:smirk:} Haseg {hebrew: Get} Tfos {hebrew: Catch} Zanek {hebrew: Leap} Tkof {hebrew: Attack} Sa' {hebrew: literall, it means "Travel", but is used as a "Go!" command, and as an attacking command for dogs or for me.} Hav {hebrew: bring} is probably still the best and simplest name anyone ever thought of here, so Anacreon - i bow befortht thee :bow:. Or maybe we could enhance it to "Havli" {hebrew: Bring [to] me}, but it could spoil the simplicity... And well, i still think my original list is pretty good: Originally posted by... well, me! Ne'eman {hebrew: loyal} Kelevamin {hebrew: kelev=dog amin=trustworthy, but sounds all elven} Orfisomer {hebrew: orfi = the back of my neck; somer = sits up, refaring to hair, so Orfisomer means "the hair on the back of my neck sits up"} Tlafcedek {hebrew for "Paw of Justice"} Krasatan {Hebrew: kra=tear satan=devil. "Tear the Devil" is a jewish kabalistic mantra used to remove illness or infestation. I recomend giving this name to some paragon of the Hound Archons} Ormeialel {Hebrew: Howling Light, or=light meialel=howls} Tofar Vashen {hebrew: Claw And Tooth. tofar=claw shen=tooth. Not particualrily exaplted, but perfectly canine.} Barze'ev {hebrew: Wolflord} Koredror {hebrew: Freedomcaller. dror=freedom kore=calls} Klavcedek {hebrew: Hound of Justice} Ze'veonel {hebrew: God's wolverine. se'evon=wolverine el=god} Ze'evor {hebrew: Wolf of Light, ze'ev=wolf or=light} Klavlavel {hebrew: God's puppy. klavlav=puppy el=god} Apizakur {hebrew: my nose is alert. api = my nose, zakur=alert} Elinavakh {hebrew: my god barked. eli = my god, navakh=barked} Kolishma {hebrew: hear my voice. koli= my voice, shma=hear} Klishim'u {same as above, but shim'u is plural for shma, a command spoken to more than one} Khad-ozen {hebrew: shap-eared, or one of sharm ears. khad=sharp ozen=ear} Harodef {hebrew: the Chaser, or "he who chases", "he who hounds"} Mevituv {hebrew: bringer of goodness. mevi=brings tuv=goodness} Galezadon {hebrew: find Evil, kinda. gale=find zadon=evilness} Shakhro'a {hebrew: bite badness/evil. shakh=bite ro'a=badness, but has no positive slang-meaning} Erla'ad {hebrew: Everaware, Everwake. er=awake/aware la'ad=forever} Katalshed {hebrew: Demonslayer, kinda. katal=slew shed=demon} Originally posted by Anacreon imperative is slowly becoming archaic in Modern Hebrew, being replaced in colloquial speech with the future indicative. Yepp, and i sodding HATE this tendency. I actually keep using civui as it was meant to be, {yeah, outa princip'} and people aren't even surprised... guess it just gives me some "classic style" immage.
Anacreon 10-30-03, 02:11 AM	Quathmoir Dlaeh Issarhai: I agree. I also try to use the imperative whenever I can, but I'm afraid it's only a matter of time before it becomes obsolete. Gadodel: There are no idiomatic pet names for dogs that I'm aware of. 'Kelev Tov' means good dog, Kalba Tova is the fem. Other than that I usually use diminutives with my dogs.
Quathmoir Dlaeh Issarhai 10-30-03, 06:16 AM	"Kushi" is the most iconic name for both a black dog and a black cat, and means "Nygger". Same goes for jinger cats and dogs named "Jinji" {no nead in translations here}. "As" is popular for large dogs, and is the hebrew pronouncation of Ace. During the late sixties, the name Benzo was very popular for dogs, but this is far from being appropriate for a hound archon, seeing as it's a short for "ben zona" witch means "son of an umberlee". Many reppoes mistook commands for iconical names, and thus the most typical commands became iconical names for dogs among reppoes; "Ragli" for example, is a command for the dog to stick to your foot.