CHARACTER CLASS: The New Website Feature [Archive] - Wizards Community

CHARACTER CLASS: The New Website Feature [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Razz
10-14-04, 12:34 AM Well...these message boards are for humble opinions and discussions so let's start with this new feature they've started on the website.

Personally, I don't like it for one main reason. No crunch. I was hoping for not only tips but a new fighter feat or prestige class or something.

What do you all think of it?
Bulabase
10-14-04, 01:00 AM I think it might be useful to someone who has never played D&D. But on the whole it is too simple. If you can't figure out the basic strengths and weaknesses of the Fighter class after a few games, you might want to stick to playing brigde. I hope they expand it a bit in the future, though. It would be nice to see different takes on how one could play a fighter, complete with feat and skill suggestions. It is sometimes fun to get beyond the "meat shield" stereotype, and I think more novice players can benefit a great deal from helpful hints.
Razz
10-14-04, 03:23 AM Yeah I don't mind what the article is trying to do. But it was rather simple and can be better explained.

But it is good to see an article like that for new players or people who truly love the Fighter class. However, the article needs to be more balanced when it comes to offering "fluff text" and "crunch text".

It's best to assume an almost equal amount of gamers would read this article and say to themselves,"I care less about half what this says, what about a new fighter feat for me or a cool new weapon or maybe a neat fighter-type prestige class?"

They need to take into consideration the "Kick In The Door" type players of D&D and balance out their websites articles with that in mind. Give it the falvor and "fluff" you want, but please the other half by placing in something new and exciting the player can actually play with, not just hints and tips that can easily come to any player in due time and experience.
Crunchy Frog
10-14-04, 12:39 PM Anyone remember the Hero Builder's Guidebook (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/868960000)? I already know this stuff, but this sort of thing is nice for beginners. Remember, the big hardbound PH isn't all that accessible to a newcomer, unless he has someone experienced to guide him. I, for one, am glad that this sort of stuff (newbie's guide to what the various character classes are all about) is going on the web site, rather than in a book.

What they ought to do is make a section of the web site called "tips for beginning players" and link it to a list of articles like this.
CuCulain42
10-14-04, 01:15 PM I have to agree the article is great for a newbie, but I would have liked to see a new feat or prestige class or something for experienced characters. Definitely could use more to the article, seems to me that Skip could have typed up this with out even really applying conscious thought.
Seeker95
10-14-04, 02:20 PM This article was for beginners. I liked it. They deserve more support on the website. I approve, and encourage more like it. We non-beginners can use it to introduce new folks. :D
Kem
10-14-04, 06:28 PM Actually I read it and thought that it was a good starting point :)

Each of the "Rules of the Game" articles kinda start slow or with the obvious stuff also. I just hope they follow up on it.
BlaineTog
10-14-04, 09:18 PM This article was for beginners. I liked it. They deserve more support on the website. I approve, and encourage more like it. We non-beginners can use it to introduce new folks. :DIts not just simple. Its obvious while, at the same time, being almost gibberish to someone who doesn't already know something about the way the game works.

I, too, was disapointed with this. It just seems like filler, a restatement of the fighter's PHB description (which can also mislead newbies into thinking that they might actually be able to make a decent diplomat out of a PHB fighter). Its fine w/o crunch, but please don't give me old and used fluff.
green_yawgmoth
10-14-04, 10:06 PM I found the article almost entirely worthless. You wouldn't know what he's talking about unless you'd already learned the game, and by that time you should know what a fighter is good for, and how to make a decent one.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
BlaineTog
10-15-04, 12:51 AM I found the article almost entirely worthless. You wouldn't know what he's talking about unless you'd already learned the game, and by that time you should know what a fighter is good for, and how to make a decent one.Exactly my point! The whole article is basically a restatement on the Fighter's entry in the PHB. Newbies won't "get" it and everyone else knows it already.
Seeker95
10-15-04, 01:18 PM I let my newest player read it.
He liked it. He got it. He found it useful.

I suspect those who object to it lack ranks in the "think like a new guy" skill.
Dorlomin
10-15-04, 03:52 PM Well...these message boards are for humble opinions and discussions so let's start with this new feature they've started on the website.

Personally, I don't like it for one main reason. No crunch. I was hoping for not only tips but a new fighter feat or prestige class or something.

What do you all think of it?

You don't like the article in particular or the whole concept? I doubt every article will be the exact same thing. The article did appear to be slanted towards newer players, so keep that in mind. Give it a chance...

And I think the "No crunch" was the prevailing idea of the article. As there are an awful lot of PrC's and Feats (arguably too many on both counts), and a vast majority are under-utilized in general I think.
green_yawgmoth
10-16-04, 02:48 AM I let my newest player read it.
He liked it. He got it. He found it useful.

I suspect those who object to it lack ranks in the "think like a new guy" skill.I think that's more of a feat, with the counter of "way too much of a powergamer" feat. Which I have. :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Bulabase
10-17-04, 09:56 AM I let my newest player read it.
He liked it. He got it. He found it useful.

I suspect those who object to it lack ranks in the "think like a new guy" skill.

Is that from a third party d20 publisher?
Escef
10-17-04, 10:38 AM When I was at GenCon some of the designers mentioned that they have noticed the backlash against cunchy material. They mentioned that 2e took a massive swing towards the fluff direction and that 3e's material took the pendulum to the other side. They're trying to balance things out now. Also, keep in mind we just had the Game Day, so expect more newbies hitting the sight. Folks who might remember enough from the games they played to understand some of the game terms, but are still really green. If they can recruit people into the game at a more balanced level of fluff vs. crunch than in 20 or 30 years when some of these kids become designers it will (hopefully) have a positive impact on the industry.

While I agree the article seems almost like an insult to the intelligence of veteran players, to a newbie it would be useful. Heck, many of today's young gamers don't understand how good an idea it is to have a backup weapon, because they are too used to console games where some of the crazy stuff we do in D&D just isn't possible.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Razz 10-14-04, 12:34 AM	Well...these message boards are for humble opinions and discussions so let's start with this new feature they've started on the website. Personally, I don't like it for one main reason. No crunch. I was hoping for not only tips but a new fighter feat or prestige class or something. What do you all think of it?
Bulabase 10-14-04, 01:00 AM	I think it might be useful to someone who has never played D&D. But on the whole it is too simple. If you can't figure out the basic strengths and weaknesses of the Fighter class after a few games, you might want to stick to playing brigde. I hope they expand it a bit in the future, though. It would be nice to see different takes on how one could play a fighter, complete with feat and skill suggestions. It is sometimes fun to get beyond the "meat shield" stereotype, and I think more novice players can benefit a great deal from helpful hints.
Razz 10-14-04, 03:23 AM	Yeah I don't mind what the article is trying to do. But it was rather simple and can be better explained. But it is good to see an article like that for new players or people who truly love the Fighter class. However, the article needs to be more balanced when it comes to offering "fluff text" and "crunch text". It's best to assume an almost equal amount of gamers would read this article and say to themselves,"I care less about half what this says, what about a new fighter feat for me or a cool new weapon or maybe a neat fighter-type prestige class?" They need to take into consideration the "Kick In The Door" type players of D&D and balance out their websites articles with that in mind. Give it the falvor and "fluff" you want, but please the other half by placing in something new and exciting the player can actually play with, not just hints and tips that can easily come to any player in due time and experience.
Crunchy Frog 10-14-04, 12:39 PM	Anyone remember the Hero Builder's Guidebook (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/868960000)? I already know this stuff, but this sort of thing is nice for beginners. Remember, the big hardbound PH isn't all that accessible to a newcomer, unless he has someone experienced to guide him. I, for one, am glad that this sort of stuff (newbie's guide to what the various character classes are all about) is going on the web site, rather than in a book. What they ought to do is make a section of the web site called "tips for beginning players" and link it to a list of articles like this.
CuCulain42 10-14-04, 01:15 PM	I have to agree the article is great for a newbie, but I would have liked to see a new feat or prestige class or something for experienced characters. Definitely could use more to the article, seems to me that Skip could have typed up this with out even really applying conscious thought.
Seeker95 10-14-04, 02:20 PM	This article was for beginners. I liked it. They deserve more support on the website. I approve, and encourage more like it. We non-beginners can use it to introduce new folks. :D
Kem 10-14-04, 06:28 PM	Actually I read it and thought that it was a good starting point :) Each of the "Rules of the Game" articles kinda start slow or with the obvious stuff also. I just hope they follow up on it.
BlaineTog 10-14-04, 09:18 PM	This article was for beginners. I liked it. They deserve more support on the website. I approve, and encourage more like it. We non-beginners can use it to introduce new folks. :DIts not just simple. Its obvious while, at the same time, being almost gibberish to someone who doesn't already know something about the way the game works. I, too, was disapointed with this. It just seems like filler, a restatement of the fighter's PHB description (which can also mislead newbies into thinking that they might actually be able to make a decent diplomat out of a PHB fighter). Its fine w/o crunch, but please don't give me old and used fluff.
green_yawgmoth 10-14-04, 10:06 PM	I found the article almost entirely worthless. You wouldn't know what he's talking about unless you'd already learned the game, and by that time you should know what a fighter is good for, and how to make a decent one. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
BlaineTog 10-15-04, 12:51 AM	I found the article almost entirely worthless. You wouldn't know what he's talking about unless you'd already learned the game, and by that time you should know what a fighter is good for, and how to make a decent one.Exactly my point! The whole article is basically a restatement on the Fighter's entry in the PHB. Newbies won't "get" it and everyone else knows it already.
Seeker95 10-15-04, 01:18 PM	I let my newest player read it. He liked it. He got it. He found it useful. I suspect those who object to it lack ranks in the "think like a new guy" skill.
Dorlomin 10-15-04, 03:52 PM	Well...these message boards are for humble opinions and discussions so let's start with this new feature they've started on the website. Personally, I don't like it for one main reason. No crunch. I was hoping for not only tips but a new fighter feat or prestige class or something. What do you all think of it? You don't like the article in particular or the whole concept? I doubt every article will be the exact same thing. The article did appear to be slanted towards newer players, so keep that in mind. Give it a chance... And I think the "No crunch" was the prevailing idea of the article. As there are an awful lot of PrC's and Feats (arguably too many on both counts), and a vast majority are under-utilized in general I think.
green_yawgmoth 10-16-04, 02:48 AM	I let my newest player read it. He liked it. He got it. He found it useful. I suspect those who object to it lack ranks in the "think like a new guy" skill.I think that's more of a feat, with the counter of "way too much of a powergamer" feat. Which I have. :D http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Bulabase 10-17-04, 09:56 AM	I let my newest player read it. He liked it. He got it. He found it useful. I suspect those who object to it lack ranks in the "think like a new guy" skill. Is that from a third party d20 publisher?
Escef 10-17-04, 10:38 AM	When I was at GenCon some of the designers mentioned that they have noticed the backlash against cunchy material. They mentioned that 2e took a massive swing towards the fluff direction and that 3e's material took the pendulum to the other side. They're trying to balance things out now. Also, keep in mind we just had the Game Day, so expect more newbies hitting the sight. Folks who might remember enough from the games they played to understand some of the game terms, but are still really green. If they can recruit people into the game at a more balanced level of fluff vs. crunch than in 20 or 30 years when some of these kids become designers it will (hopefully) have a positive impact on the industry. While I agree the article seems almost like an insult to the intelligence of veteran players, to a newbie it would be useful. Heck, many of today's young gamers don't understand how good an idea it is to have a backup weapon, because they are too used to console games where some of the crazy stuff we do in D&D just isn't possible.