Character death, and the new character [Archive] - Wizards Community

Character death, and the new character [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Gutjak
05-04-06, 09:11 AM A thing that allways trouble me is when a character die. Two options come up for the player. Hoping the players will pay alot of gold and lose a level, by using a spell. Or rolling up a new character, at the same level, and with alot new equipment.

Options:
1. Lose a level, and alot gold.
2. Dont lose a level, and get alot of new items + the items the dead character had go to party poll.

Option 2 sounds alot more attractive to me if I lose my character. But the two options is so different that i think i moves the game ballance a bit.

I actually played a campaing where the players exploid the opitunity to gain extra gold, by making a new character. We got so many Cloaks of resistance +1 we could make tents of them.

In a another campaing we tried to let new characters be 1 level below the lowest playing character. But later in the campaing we get one on level 30 and one on level 21. Thats a very big jump between highest and lowest.

I really need to find a solution for this matter, coarse it force me to make something up when a character die, and i dont want to dissturp game ballance, and i dont want to underpower the party.

What do you think or did in these times?
Illion the Red
05-04-06, 09:29 AM As a DM, I do the following:

Allow PCs to have wills and an "insurance" account to be used to raise them. (This is only if they are in a very civilized area).

Otherwise, the standard options apply.

If the player creates a new chracter, then I adjust the treasure downward for the next few encounters to compensate for the extra "loot" from the dead PC. My players had an interesting reaction to this once they realized that they were missing out on new loot - they buried the dead PC's equipment with the body.

Now that last little bit may be a factor of how I set up my encounters in that they can often be very difficult, but equally rewarding. They were really not happy missing out on some of the treasure from the hard encouters.
Whim
05-04-06, 10:06 AM I usually try to avoid final death as much as possible when I DM. I like to stick with the word "incapacitated". The only time I really enforce final death is either when I'm trying to prove a point, set a mood, or if the incapacitated body is mutilated in some fatal way (decapitation, heart ripped out, etc.).

Anything else more or less just means that you'll be out of commission for an extended period of time in my scenarios, usually.

And when a player does reroll in my scenarios, they don't start out with anything more than common gear and VERY little money.
geekling
05-04-06, 10:30 AM In a another campaing we tried to let new characters be 1 level below the lowest playing character. But later in the campaing we get one on level 30 and one on level 21. Thats a very big jump between highest and lowest.

Perhaps try one level below party average level, rounded down.

So if you got a party of 4 level 6 characters - a new one starts at level 5.
But if you've got one level 5, two level 6 and one level 7 - your new character still starts at level 5.

Means that you don't quite as big spread of levels as the game progress if you've got a lot of PC death.

Yes, it could be abused, I'm sure, and it could even mean gaining a level when rolling up a new character - if the character that dies have lagged behind the party. But such tendencies could be nipped in the bud if you keep an eye out for them.
celtredleg
05-04-06, 10:37 AM I use pretty much the same standard if they are raised, or if they are new. So it it a matter of preference, not advantage.

If death costs PCs nothing, then there is little to impose fear on them.
Board_Rider
05-04-06, 01:29 PM If PCs die in my game the come back as 1 level lower than the lowest PC. They also come back with standard money for the appropriate level.

This has never really been an issue because most players that I DMed have been fairly competitive and don't want to be the low man on the totem pole. Basically, they usually try to ressurect one another.
strumbleduck
05-04-06, 02:23 PM Why not have the new character be 1 level lower than the old character? This seems fairer to the player than "one below the average party level" or "one below the level of the lowest-level character".

I don't know what to do about PC's looting their fallen comrades, though.
HermitIX
05-04-06, 02:51 PM This just happened in my game. What I did was I let him make a new character one level lower than his dead character. I gave him the starter equipment, with a +1 on his weapon and armor.

I didn’t let him have full treasure for his level because his old character’s treasure was still around and I didn’t want to have this huge influx of goodies. He can attempt to beg gear off the other (now very well equipped) party members.

Death should be an inconvenience. I am always disappointed when a character dies. Players who just roll up a new one bug me. 3 times out of 5 I have my old character resurrected.
Entheogenic
05-04-06, 03:10 PM I'm trying to deal with this in my game as well. In my upcoming campaign, I'm going to rule (I think) that if you want to reroll, you will come back as one level lower than the lowest party member, and that you will only get 2/3 the gold listed in the PHB. I may even reduce this to 1/2. Being able to purchase all high level equipment, especially at level 10+ is a BIG advantage--no real character of that level would have all liquid assets and be able to totally reequip himself. I like continuity as much as possible, so I'm going to try to make it less than desirable to reroll, as I do have several players who have a history of getting tired of their characters after just a little while and wanting to reroll again and again.

Entheogenic
purpledragon
05-04-06, 05:58 PM When a new char comes into my games, I have to approve of the char before he can enter. That means looking ove the skills, feats, attribs, spells, and equipment. This is usually when I say "Smokers, this is a good time for you to take a break".
Korhal_IV
05-04-06, 07:47 PM In my group, you come back one level lower than the average. If you die before gaining another level, you stay that level. So in our group, I never lost a PC, and got up to 8th, but another guy lost two, and his third PC was 7th.

We did have a lot of excess loot, but that never really became a problem since we rarely stopped to resell or reequip. It got so that even the barbarian had a Headband of Intellect +2, but that was more funny than anything else. :)
jasper
05-05-06, 09:22 AM the only limit I put on new pcs are reasonable equipment, and 3 CLW potions. No other magic and 100 gp in bank. Basically your pc is broke again and starting to adventure again.
geekling
05-05-06, 10:07 AM Why not have the new character be 1 level lower than the old character? This seems fairer to the player than "one below the average party level" or "one below the level of the lowest-level character".

Perhaps because it leaves itself open to getting out of hand.

Party is made up by A, B, C and D - they are all level 7.

A's character dies, no ressurection available, so A makes new character at level 6.

Before leveling up A goes through a run of bad luck and A's character dies again. - Still no ressurection available, A rolls up a new character at level 5 (one lower than the old character.)

We now have a party with 3 level 7 character and one level 5, at two levels below the rest of the party, A's character is that much more at risk dying. Which would lead to his character slipping even further behind, becoming even weaker and more vunerable compaired to the rest of the party..... and the circle goes on.
Dragon Snack
05-05-06, 09:36 PM IMC, we have new characters come back at one level below the old character, with enough XP to be half the way to the next level plus the XP from the fight that their character died in, if they aren't just switching characters (just as if they had been Raised). I also vary the XP handed out by level so that lower level characters gain XP faster (I believe this is in the core rules, but I'll admit I haven't read that part in the 3.5 books). I have never had the problem of a player getting more than 2 levels behind, they usually catch up pretty quickly even from one level behind.

If you want the average PC wealth by level, I roll randomly for what gear you have and you are free to sell (at half price) what you don't want for whatever customized equipment you want. If you want specific custom equipment, you get the average NPC wealth by level to spend as you wish.

Seems to satisfy everybody (we no longer play with the person "responsible" for these rules, but we keep them anyway).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gutjak 05-04-06, 09:11 AM	A thing that allways trouble me is when a character die. Two options come up for the player. Hoping the players will pay alot of gold and lose a level, by using a spell. Or rolling up a new character, at the same level, and with alot new equipment. Options: 1. Lose a level, and alot gold. 2. Dont lose a level, and get alot of new items + the items the dead character had go to party poll. Option 2 sounds alot more attractive to me if I lose my character. But the two options is so different that i think i moves the game ballance a bit. I actually played a campaing where the players exploid the opitunity to gain extra gold, by making a new character. We got so many Cloaks of resistance +1 we could make tents of them. In a another campaing we tried to let new characters be 1 level below the lowest playing character. But later in the campaing we get one on level 30 and one on level 21. Thats a very big jump between highest and lowest. I really need to find a solution for this matter, coarse it force me to make something up when a character die, and i dont want to dissturp game ballance, and i dont want to underpower the party. What do you think or did in these times?
Illion the Red 05-04-06, 09:29 AM	As a DM, I do the following: Allow PCs to have wills and an "insurance" account to be used to raise them. (This is only if they are in a very civilized area). Otherwise, the standard options apply. If the player creates a new chracter, then I adjust the treasure downward for the next few encounters to compensate for the extra "loot" from the dead PC. My players had an interesting reaction to this once they realized that they were missing out on new loot - they buried the dead PC's equipment with the body. Now that last little bit may be a factor of how I set up my encounters in that they can often be very difficult, but equally rewarding. They were really not happy missing out on some of the treasure from the hard encouters.
Whim 05-04-06, 10:06 AM	I usually try to avoid final death as much as possible when I DM. I like to stick with the word "incapacitated". The only time I really enforce final death is either when I'm trying to prove a point, set a mood, or if the incapacitated body is mutilated in some fatal way (decapitation, heart ripped out, etc.). Anything else more or less just means that you'll be out of commission for an extended period of time in my scenarios, usually. And when a player does reroll in my scenarios, they don't start out with anything more than common gear and VERY little money.
geekling 05-04-06, 10:30 AM	In a another campaing we tried to let new characters be 1 level below the lowest playing character. But later in the campaing we get one on level 30 and one on level 21. Thats a very big jump between highest and lowest. Perhaps try one level below party average level, rounded down. So if you got a party of 4 level 6 characters - a new one starts at level 5. But if you've got one level 5, two level 6 and one level 7 - your new character still starts at level 5. Means that you don't quite as big spread of levels as the game progress if you've got a lot of PC death. Yes, it could be abused, I'm sure, and it could even mean gaining a level when rolling up a new character - if the character that dies have lagged behind the party. But such tendencies could be nipped in the bud if you keep an eye out for them.
celtredleg 05-04-06, 10:37 AM	I use pretty much the same standard if they are raised, or if they are new. So it it a matter of preference, not advantage. If death costs PCs nothing, then there is little to impose fear on them.
Board_Rider 05-04-06, 01:29 PM	If PCs die in my game the come back as 1 level lower than the lowest PC. They also come back with standard money for the appropriate level. This has never really been an issue because most players that I DMed have been fairly competitive and don't want to be the low man on the totem pole. Basically, they usually try to ressurect one another.
strumbleduck 05-04-06, 02:23 PM	Why not have the new character be 1 level lower than the old character? This seems fairer to the player than "one below the average party level" or "one below the level of the lowest-level character". I don't know what to do about PC's looting their fallen comrades, though.
HermitIX 05-04-06, 02:51 PM	This just happened in my game. What I did was I let him make a new character one level lower than his dead character. I gave him the starter equipment, with a +1 on his weapon and armor. I didn’t let him have full treasure for his level because his old character’s treasure was still around and I didn’t want to have this huge influx of goodies. He can attempt to beg gear off the other (now very well equipped) party members. Death should be an inconvenience. I am always disappointed when a character dies. Players who just roll up a new one bug me. 3 times out of 5 I have my old character resurrected.
Entheogenic 05-04-06, 03:10 PM	I'm trying to deal with this in my game as well. In my upcoming campaign, I'm going to rule (I think) that if you want to reroll, you will come back as one level lower than the lowest party member, and that you will only get 2/3 the gold listed in the PHB. I may even reduce this to 1/2. Being able to purchase all high level equipment, especially at level 10+ is a BIG advantage--no real character of that level would have all liquid assets and be able to totally reequip himself. I like continuity as much as possible, so I'm going to try to make it less than desirable to reroll, as I do have several players who have a history of getting tired of their characters after just a little while and wanting to reroll again and again. Entheogenic
purpledragon 05-04-06, 05:58 PM	When a new char comes into my games, I have to approve of the char before he can enter. That means looking ove the skills, feats, attribs, spells, and equipment. This is usually when I say "Smokers, this is a good time for you to take a break".
Korhal_IV 05-04-06, 07:47 PM	In my group, you come back one level lower than the average. If you die before gaining another level, you stay that level. So in our group, I never lost a PC, and got up to 8th, but another guy lost two, and his third PC was 7th. We did have a lot of excess loot, but that never really became a problem since we rarely stopped to resell or reequip. It got so that even the barbarian had a Headband of Intellect +2, but that was more funny than anything else. :)
jasper 05-05-06, 09:22 AM	the only limit I put on new pcs are reasonable equipment, and 3 CLW potions. No other magic and 100 gp in bank. Basically your pc is broke again and starting to adventure again.
geekling 05-05-06, 10:07 AM	Why not have the new character be 1 level lower than the old character? This seems fairer to the player than "one below the average party level" or "one below the level of the lowest-level character". Perhaps because it leaves itself open to getting out of hand. Party is made up by A, B, C and D - they are all level 7. A's character dies, no ressurection available, so A makes new character at level 6. Before leveling up A goes through a run of bad luck and A's character dies again. - Still no ressurection available, A rolls up a new character at level 5 (one lower than the old character.) We now have a party with 3 level 7 character and one level 5, at two levels below the rest of the party, A's character is that much more at risk dying. Which would lead to his character slipping even further behind, becoming even weaker and more vunerable compaired to the rest of the party..... and the circle goes on.
Dragon Snack 05-05-06, 09:36 PM	IMC, we have new characters come back at one level below the old character, with enough XP to be half the way to the next level plus the XP from the fight that their character died in, if they aren't just switching characters (just as if they had been Raised). I also vary the XP handed out by level so that lower level characters gain XP faster (I believe this is in the core rules, but I'll admit I haven't read that part in the 3.5 books). I have never had the problem of a player getting more than 2 levels behind, they usually catch up pretty quickly even from one level behind. If you want the average PC wealth by level, I roll randomly for what gear you have and you are free to sell (at half price) what you don't want for whatever customized equipment you want. If you want specific custom equipment, you get the average NPC wealth by level to spend as you wish. Seems to satisfy everybody (we no longer play with the person "responsible" for these rules, but we keep them anyway).