Character Development boards: an insult to powergaming [Archive] - Wizards Community

Character Development boards: an insult to powergaming [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Token
01-09-05, 11:50 PM :rant:

I realize this is a daring post, but time and again I am reminded of how ROLEplaying is killing the game. I know it’s generally accepted that ROLEplaying is ‘just one way to play the game,’ but I disagree. It may be an enjoyable way to play for some (pathetic few?) people, but as a powergamer, whenever I talk (be in through the internet or face to face) to ROLEplayers, I get frustrated by the lack of creativity and insight they show. They always play the same weak ‘prick me and I die’ bard every single game, and they always are doing the exact same thing in character, and berating me and my style of play for being somehow “wrong,” “not creative,” or “lacking insight.” I’ve played more different types of characters than the standard rules allow for, because I’m constantly coming up with new builds (note I call them ‘builds’ while still on the drawing board, not characters, because that’s what they are) and I say “Hey! That’d be fun to play,” yet I lack creativity or insight. :rolleyes:

WotC allows their game, or rather our game, to be destroyed by not speaking out against this, by not explaining to players that ROLEplaying is in fact not the right way to play. (If you complain about this, I’ll hit you). They even encourage ROLEplaying by having the Character Development boards – which I believe is the least visited sub-forum of the WotC boards, which probably means that few of the current D&D players are ROLEplayers, which doesn’t explain why WotC (or Hasbro, whatever) encourages ROLEplaying, because it’s WotC’s job to tell you how to play the game, and who are you to question THEM. :banghead:

I know I am speaking for the multitude of players out there, and that I can not expect WotC to remove this thorn from my side (because frankly, I know I’m not a minority). I don’t even mind, I just wanted to stomp on some spilled guts on this one. :pbbbtt:

For Pete’s sake, if you can’t figure out how to maximize your character’s potential, then how can you possibly call yourself (or rather your character) a hero? Because that’s what “powergaming” is all about: maximizing your potential within the rules of the universe.
Razoreface
01-10-05, 12:33 AM :confused:

:noway:

:thinks:

:lightbulb

:doh:

:rofl:

:clap:
SALDAR
01-10-05, 12:49 AM That's interesting. I thought heroes were people of strong character.
Token
01-10-05, 01:08 AM That's interesting. I thought heroes were people of strong character.

No heros are people that actually get something done. Take a look at superman for instance. He has NO character what-so-ever, yet he's a superhero. Super, meaning something more than a regular hero. Yet the thing that makes him a hero is that he goes around wasting his superpowers saving lives, fighting evil vilians, etc, while his brother "regular"man just sits around using his x-ray vision to stare into the girls lockerroom at the highschool a few miles away.

At the same time, "weak"man tries to save someone from a burining building, but he trips over his shoelaces and now needs superman to come rescue him *again* because he can barely hold his own yet he is always trying to be "heroic." Instead of being heroic he merely wastes the true hero's time.

Thus a powergamer is a hero, assuming the powergamer doesn't sit around the tavern all day flirting with the serving wench, drinking too much, and dancing badly, which would mean that he isn't a powergamer because he isn't trying to get more xp and treasure.

While a prick-me-and-I-die type character is constantly wasting the party's reasources saving his worthless bum, rather than using those reasources to do something heroic.
The White Sorcerer
01-10-05, 01:17 AM That's interesting. I thought heroes were people of strong character.

They are. However, they should also be strong characters themselves.

EDIT: Great job, Token. I love thread parodies!
angryman
01-10-05, 01:48 AM No heros are people that actually get something done. Take a look at superman for instance. He has NO character what-so-ever, yet he's a superhero.

Actually, there you're exactly right. Superman has no character whatsoever- he is one of the most dull, one-dimensional comic book characters out there.
Take Batman, who I think is much more interesting. He has no super powers, but he is hardly "prick me and I die" either. Now I would call superman a pretty hardcore power character, nay, the power character, but this is irrelevent to him being interesting, because he's not.
However, a strong or weak build does not correlate to a strong or weak character. You're comparing minmaxing with people who make weak builds, let's call it min-minning. My eccentric friend's Half-Orc wizard 5/rogue 5/bard 5 was kind of interesting but because he was weak and ineffectual, our group said in game, "Hey, you're not pulling your weight, you can't do anything, get out."
At the end of the day, the character sheet is a set of numbers, it's you that has to make him come to life, to be interesting.
Token
01-10-05, 03:28 AM You're exactly right. Superman is a dumbass, and totally lame. Also the superman movies sucked. Either he's got a low int score and being roleplayed correctly or he's being run by a Lawful Stupid player.

Batman is a very powerful character, the result of an insane min/maxing. I mean, he's rogueish, but he can fight really good. He's got the skill monkey thing down and if you substitute expensive gadgets for spells, he's got that area covered. Batman rocks, and he's a powergamer. More of one than superman because how could you wind up with a weakness to one of the most readily available substances in the universe (kryptonite seems to fall into the hands of supermans enemies way too often...) if you made a truely min/maxed build?

Superman gets away with being 1-dimentional by being one of the first superheros, and being a world-war-2 propaganda tool.
WizO_Catoblepas
01-10-05, 07:33 AM Look, we have two boards: the Character Optimization boards and the Character Development boards. Guests can take advantage of them, or they can choose to do not.

If you really want to discuss the matter, please start a thread on the appropriate boards. Then guests who normally visit those boards can provide insight to why these boards exist. Pretty simple.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Token 01-09-05, 11:50 PM	:rant: I realize this is a daring post, but time and again I am reminded of how ROLEplaying is killing the game. I know it’s generally accepted that ROLEplaying is ‘just one way to play the game,’ but I disagree. It may be an enjoyable way to play for some (pathetic few?) people, but as a powergamer, whenever I talk (be in through the internet or face to face) to ROLEplayers, I get frustrated by the lack of creativity and insight they show. They always play the same weak ‘prick me and I die’ bard every single game, and they always are doing the exact same thing in character, and berating me and my style of play for being somehow “wrong,” “not creative,” or “lacking insight.” I’ve played more different types of characters than the standard rules allow for, because I’m constantly coming up with new builds (note I call them ‘builds’ while still on the drawing board, not characters, because that’s what they are) and I say “Hey! That’d be fun to play,” yet I lack creativity or insight. :rolleyes: WotC allows their game, or rather our game, to be destroyed by not speaking out against this, by not explaining to players that ROLEplaying is in fact not the right way to play. (If you complain about this, I’ll hit you). They even encourage ROLEplaying by having the Character Development boards – which I believe is the least visited sub-forum of the WotC boards, which probably means that few of the current D&D players are ROLEplayers, which doesn’t explain why WotC (or Hasbro, whatever) encourages ROLEplaying, because it’s WotC’s job to tell you how to play the game, and who are you to question THEM. :banghead: I know I am speaking for the multitude of players out there, and that I can not expect WotC to remove this thorn from my side (because frankly, I know I’m not a minority). I don’t even mind, I just wanted to stomp on some spilled guts on this one. :pbbbtt: For Pete’s sake, if you can’t figure out how to maximize your character’s potential, then how can you possibly call yourself (or rather your character) a hero? Because that’s what “powergaming” is all about: maximizing your potential within the rules of the universe.
Razoreface 01-10-05, 12:33 AM	:confused: :noway: :thinks: :lightbulb :doh: :rofl: :clap:
SALDAR 01-10-05, 12:49 AM	That's interesting. I thought heroes were people of strong character.
Token 01-10-05, 01:08 AM	That's interesting. I thought heroes were people of strong character. No heros are people that actually get something done. Take a look at superman for instance. He has NO character what-so-ever, yet he's a superhero. Super, meaning something more than a regular hero. Yet the thing that makes him a hero is that he goes around wasting his superpowers saving lives, fighting evil vilians, etc, while his brother "regular"man just sits around using his x-ray vision to stare into the girls lockerroom at the highschool a few miles away. At the same time, "weak"man tries to save someone from a burining building, but he trips over his shoelaces and now needs superman to come rescue him again because he can barely hold his own yet he is always trying to be "heroic." Instead of being heroic he merely wastes the true hero's time. Thus a powergamer is a hero, assuming the powergamer doesn't sit around the tavern all day flirting with the serving wench, drinking too much, and dancing badly, which would mean that he isn't a powergamer because he isn't trying to get more xp and treasure. While a prick-me-and-I-die type character is constantly wasting the party's reasources saving his worthless bum, rather than using those reasources to do something heroic.
The White Sorcerer 01-10-05, 01:17 AM	That's interesting. I thought heroes were people of strong character. They are. However, they should also be strong characters themselves. EDIT: Great job, Token. I love thread parodies!
angryman 01-10-05, 01:48 AM	No heros are people that actually get something done. Take a look at superman for instance. He has NO character what-so-ever, yet he's a superhero. Actually, there you're exactly right. Superman has no character whatsoever- he is one of the most dull, one-dimensional comic book characters out there. Take Batman, who I think is much more interesting. He has no super powers, but he is hardly "prick me and I die" either. Now I would call superman a pretty hardcore power character, nay, the power character, but this is irrelevent to him being interesting, because he's not. However, a strong or weak build does not correlate to a strong or weak character. You're comparing minmaxing with people who make weak builds, let's call it min-minning. My eccentric friend's Half-Orc wizard 5/rogue 5/bard 5 was kind of interesting but because he was weak and ineffectual, our group said in game, "Hey, you're not pulling your weight, you can't do anything, get out." At the end of the day, the character sheet is a set of numbers, it's you that has to make him come to life, to be interesting.
Token 01-10-05, 03:28 AM	You're exactly right. Superman is a dumbass, and totally lame. Also the superman movies sucked. Either he's got a low int score and being roleplayed correctly or he's being run by a Lawful Stupid player. Batman is a very powerful character, the result of an insane min/maxing. I mean, he's rogueish, but he can fight really good. He's got the skill monkey thing down and if you substitute expensive gadgets for spells, he's got that area covered. Batman rocks, and he's a powergamer. More of one than superman because how could you wind up with a weakness to one of the most readily available substances in the universe (kryptonite seems to fall into the hands of supermans enemies way too often...) if you made a truely min/maxed build? Superman gets away with being 1-dimentional by being one of the first superheros, and being a world-war-2 propaganda tool.
WizO_Catoblepas 01-10-05, 07:33 AM	Look, we have two boards: the Character Optimization boards and the Character Development boards. Guests can take advantage of them, or they can choose to do not. If you really want to discuss the matter, please start a thread on the appropriate boards. Then guests who normally visit those boards can provide insight to why these boards exist. Pretty simple.