Charisma... any further uses? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Charisma... any further uses? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sotha_syl
06-05-07, 09:43 PM Strength applies to melee (and some ranged) attack and damage rolls and carrying capacity.

Dexterity applies to initiative, armor class, and reflex saves.

Constitution applies to health and fortitude saves.

Intelligence applies to skill points and is a caster stat for several classes.

Wisdom applies to will saves and is a caster stat for several classes.

Charisma is only a main caster stat for several classes.

I realize that all of the stats apply to several skills and other minor things in game, but these are the main uses for the six stats. And it seems to me that charisma doesn't get enough love. I know I'm not overlooking something, but is there some kind of other mechanic or solid thing that charisma can apply to? Maybe in a source book, or in someone's house rules.

I realize it dictates almost all social interaction, but so can the other stats in many ways, and they all have their uses like that that make them important for roleplaying, and thus a solidly roleplayed character does not need charisma, necessarily. So don't call me a powergamer or a munchkin or whatever, I can see the values of charisma as the 'social interaction stat'. I just wish it had further uses, so many players I know call it the 'universal dump stat' and I'd like to remedy that somehow.

So, any ideas?
Rerecros
06-05-07, 09:46 PM I've heard this before.
The best solution i've heard is to use Cha for initiative.
Dex contributes to so many things already, and it makes sense for a character thats bursting with mojo to be the first to react.
Sotha_syl
06-05-07, 09:59 PM I've heard this before.
The best solution i've heard is to use Cha for initiative.
Dex contributes to so many things already, and it makes sense for a character thats bursting with mojo to be the first to react.

Blah. Dexterity makes sense for that, and I don't see any reason to detract from it. It doesn't make much sense to me, either. It seems that a character that has a very fast reaction time will take action before a socially adept and self-assured character with a strong force of personality.
CryoSilver
06-05-07, 10:49 PM Charisma is used in many WIll save calculations for special attacks, such as frightful presence.
SillyRobot
06-05-07, 11:16 PM I've constructed specific mechanical house rules for Charisma and those social interactions I don't want to play out (such as shopping).

I have a set of rules for finding rare or difficult to purchase items (magic, illegal poisons, etc.), selling services in town (training others, selling magic item construction, selling unusual services).

Most of the rules are based around either a level + Cha bonus or a social skill such as Gather Information.
Araxiss
06-05-07, 11:31 PM It helps turning/rebuking/controling undead for clerics.
MerlintheTuna
06-05-07, 11:54 PM Charisma can get you nearly everything, with the right tool. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=320889) Sometimes twice.
ekeeb
06-05-07, 11:59 PM its used in turning/rebuking undead, primary ability for certain spellcasters, used for Lay on Hands.

its your force of personality, it determines how socially inept you are compared to others, and if your Dm really hates you, he can throw an intelligent item at you with an ego over 19, and then you have to roll a charisma check to overcome the personality of the item and control it, instead of it controlling you.

charisma is also how attractive you are to creatures (or people) who find your race attractive, thats why fey have such high charisma scores.

Ekeeb :D
Vharuck
06-06-07, 12:04 AM To a monster with spell-like abilities, Charisma is awesome.
Thomar_of_Uointer
06-06-07, 12:21 AM Don't underestimate the skill-based uses of Charisma. Besides being able to bend NPCs to your whims, the Use Magic Device skill lets you fake being a spellcaster to use scrolls and wands (arguably the best bang for the buck if you don't want to dedicate yourself to a spellcasting class, and you don't suffer from the low Hit Dice).
Someone
06-06-07, 02:49 AM A high Cha makes you less likely to pass out from a touch of idiocy spell, perhaps?
Mystyc
06-06-07, 03:44 AM Yeah, those are all things Charisma affects, but they're almost all class-dependent. Things like saving throws, skill points, and carrying capacity affect pretty much every character all the time.

The best suggestion I've seen is to have your CHA modifier apply to your action point total each level.* In a pulp-cinematic environment like Eberron, characters with greater presence are more "plot-worthy," so they should be able to tweak fate in their favor more often. Of course, you have to be using action points to do this, but I like them anyhow.

* -- I recommend reducing the normal total as well, so your APs are 3 + CHA + 1/2 level. Making points a little scarcer means getting more from CHA is more valuable.

And yes, this is a house rule. RAW, Charisma just doesn't do much for a lot of characters.
Dragonsblood
06-06-07, 04:03 AM Rogues use it with the bluff skill to feint in combat.
Leo
06-06-07, 04:37 AM Charisma determines how cool your character looks. By the rules you can't have that awe inspiring warrior with golden hair and blue eyes(or anything else exotic) if you don't put some effort into charisma.
StormKnight
06-06-07, 10:44 AM Any of the high CHA benefits that involve skills you would also get from a high INT, a few levels, and spending the bonus skill points in the right place.

CHA is not as good as the other stats. I think it says as much somewhere in the DMG about designing PC races and giving racial bonuses and penalties.

As suggested already, price reductions or extra action points are good ways to balance it out a bit.

The game Runequest, which used the same base stats as D&D, had CHA modify all sorts of abilities, because it meant the gods would pay more attention to you.

By the rules you can't have that awe inspiring warrior with golden hair and blue eyes...
Er, sounds like an ok way to play, but "by the rules?" I don't think the rules say anything like that at all :)
hiryuu
06-06-07, 11:49 AM Er, sounds like an ok way to play, but "by the rules?" I don't think the rules say anything like that at all :)

Oddly enough, it does (but it also doesn't mean pretty; it also could mean "unique"). Look at the definition of Charisma in the 3.5 PH. If your Charisma is low, expect your character to come off as unimpressive, unattractive, and unremarkable (heck, Tieflings in 2E got a Chariwma bonus because they looked exotic and intriguing; it was removed in 3E because the designers didn't read their own material decided "icky" = Cha penalty).
_________________

For one of my homebrew settings, everything has a mana die or mana total (yes, even objects). It's sort of like a metaphysical HP track; you can use it to convert damage you're taking to nonlethal damage, power magical devices, power magic, activate magical effects on things (like channeling your mana into a door to activate its locking mechanism), and lots of creatures deal mana damage. Hitting 0 mana is just like hitting 0 hp, and you can even die as your soul starts to fade away.

It's modified by your Charisma.
Astron the Wizard
06-06-07, 12:06 PM if you're in a dungeon crawl, there's almost no use for charisma (unless you're a sorcerer or a bard) in combat situations, but those "charisma based skills and other minor things" you talk about could be extremely useful in some campaigns, or what if there's a good aligned monster in the dungeon who you don't want to kill, but you want the treasure in the next room? Diplomacy to the recue!
Prof. Pacali
06-06-07, 12:17 PM Don't underestimate the value of having a character with high charisma. A well designed Sorceror or Hexblade can have people eating out of his hands with a Bluff or Diplomacy check, and the right words.

As for no use in a dungeon crawl, how do you plan to find the dungeon in the first place without a Gather Information check? :rolleyes:
DaidojiTaidoru
06-06-07, 12:32 PM Charisma is the Strength of the mental stats. Good to have more then 6 in. Useful for many classes. Worthless for many classes.

A Barbarian will take whatever Charisma he can get without being burned at the stake (though more would be nice).

A Druid will take whatever strength score will allow him to carry his food, and wait until wildshape kicks in to melee things.

edit: Though if you want to make having a Charisma lower then 6 apply in a few more cases you could use it as the Force of Will stat. IE: Wisdom is resisting mental effects, charisma is causing mental effects. It'll only come up in things like morphic planes and other odd situations, but it is something to do with it.
Edymnion
06-06-07, 12:36 PM http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=837660
Sotha_syl
06-06-07, 02:39 PM Yes, yes, I realize charisma is used for all sorts of misc skills and class features and such things, christ. So is every stat, and thus it doesn't balance out to equal all the other stats as far as covering the basics.

Well, I suppose it's time to switch things up with a houserule, Haven't seen anything here that does it for me I guess.
Findail
06-06-07, 04:27 PM Leadership, the most powerful feat in the game (and available to every class except some oddball PrC's), uses Charisma.

Without other modifiers, you need a Charisma of at least 10 if you take Leadership at 6th level to get a 4th level cohort (your cohort must be at least 2 levels below you). If you wait till 9th, you need a Charisma of 12 to get a 7th level cohort. The longer you wait, the more Charisma you need: and if you lose your cohort, you will have problems at high levels getting another cohort 2 levels below you without a substantial Cha modifier.

You could buy an item, but that's money you could be spending on other things.
StormKnight
06-06-07, 05:14 PM Diplomacy to the recue!

A well designed Sorceror or Hexblade can have people eating out of his hands with a Bluff or Diplomacy check, and the right words.

As for no use in a dungeon crawl, how do you plan to find the dungeon in the first place without a Gather Information check?
CHA +1 = +1 Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate at level 1.

INT +1 = +1 Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate at level 1. And another +1 to one of those skills every level.
Prof. Pacali
06-06-07, 05:27 PM CHA +1 = +1 Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate at level 1.

INT +1 = +1 Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate at level 1. And another +1 to one of those skills every level.

If bluff, diplomacy, gather information, and intimidate are not on your class skill list then the Charisma bonus will help you more in the long run, because you won't waste the 4 skill points you get at 1st level buying ranks in a cross-class skill.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
06-06-07, 06:03 PM CHA +1 = +1 Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate at level 1.

INT +1 = +1 Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate at level 1. And another +1 to one of those skills every level.

You miss the part where there is a limit to how many ranks you can have. There is not a limit to how much you can add due to Charisma.

Edit: And it assumes you aren't putting any ranks in those skills in the first place, which is frankly ludicrous.
Vharuck
06-06-07, 06:09 PM Yes, yes, I realize charisma is used for all sorts of misc skills and class features and such things, christ. So is every stat, and thus it doesn't balance out to equal all the other stats as far as covering the basics.

Well, I suppose it's time to switch things up with a houserule, Haven't seen anything here that does it for me I guess.

Funny thing is those skills and class features are what contribute most to a character's power.
Karish
06-06-07, 06:20 PM Charisma lets me look badass and scare the living hell out of things when mized with Intimidate.

That's all I need, any class, any level. Charisma makes me cool. I can worry about death afterwards. :3
Electric_Zombie
06-06-07, 06:20 PM If you're a Paladin and/or Blackgaurd, you get your Charisma bonus to all your saves. Pretty damn nice.
TinyHowie
06-06-07, 07:57 PM In rules terms and solely rules, Charisma also affects NPC attitude to you. Diplomacy is capable of turning a "hostile" situation to "neutral" or "friendly" situation. It's only matter of players' approach when encountering others.

How cool you look? Hmmm... ghouls have 13 charisma, higher than most non charisma based classes. They are intimidating only because of their claw claw bite + paralyze at that low CR. Perhaps it's a way to reflect how undeads strike fear over other creatures.
Leo
06-06-07, 11:00 PM Well, str is quite usefull, yet more than half the classes out there use it as dump stat(aka non melees). Go figure.
Dragonsblood
06-07-07, 04:37 AM Any of the high CHA benefits that involve skills you would also get from a high INT, a few levels, and spending the bonus skill points in the right place.

Unless your social skills are already maxed. You also make "a few levels" seem like such a trivial thing, when in many campaigns it can take months to get a few levels.
jeffepp
06-07-07, 11:48 AM The type of play that you use is important when considering how important Charisma is. If you are running nothing but combat heavy dungeon grinder sessions, then social skills may not be worth much. However, if you are doing city based games, with lots of RP and only occasional fighting, Charisma skills come at premium, for any class. There is no point in getting militant about how important or unimportant the stat is, with out considering this aspect.
Sotha_syl
06-08-07, 05:22 PM Funny thing is those skills and class features are what contribute most to a character's power.

:rolleyes:

Hilarious.

The intent of my original post was to take skills and class features out of the picture, seeing as those are a massive variable and it's difficult to compare much of anything between them without an awful lot of things to consider.

I suppose what I'm saying is that charisma, in terms of what all the base stats do, is the weakest. It doesn't give you anything on the side, excluding all of the following: skills, feats, class features, spells, and anything of the sort. There's really no arguing that, because it really and truly does not. And I know I'm bound to receive the "well that's why charisma is so good" argument. Honestly, all the stats apply to certain skills, feats, class features, spells, etc. Some more than others in certain cases, but that isn't the point.
Astron the Wizard
06-08-07, 09:31 PM well, once again, you must consider the type if campaign you are running. An urban campaign may easily depend on a high charisma.
Vurgyl
06-09-07, 09:58 AM A 1st level Ftr. faces a group of Orcs.He is one of six soldiers.But unlike the rest,he hates these Orcs especially.
You could create encounters dramatically charged.The soldier's older brother was killed by this particular Orc clan.He adds his CHA.mod. to his weapon damage+STR.
If the PC is chasing someone,or trying to reach another player,they add their CHA. mod. to any DEX checks they may have to make.(Please note:if they roll too low,they won't be very pretty then.)
My PC and I felt the same about CHA. not getting enough mileage.Ihope this helps.
Optimized_Commoner
06-09-07, 10:49 AM Charisma is the special ability stat.
Strength is the brute force stat.
Dexterity is the 'fight on your own terms' stat.
Intelligence is the extra options stat.
Wisdom is the 'don't screw up' stat.
Constitution is the 'go longer' stat.
wierd_crew_inja
06-09-07, 11:23 AM chr can be a very good stat depending on how u roleplay.

if you roleplay along with your stats then if you have a low chr then you prolbaly wont talk alot to shopkeeps and the like

its like a barbarian haveing a chr 6 and the Player talking to NPCs as if he had a really high chr and things of the like

also for the whole chr being the dump stat, well thast only for certain classes as well. i doupt a fighter will have a very high chr mainly becasue his strs dont realy on it. a barbarian the samething. but what about sorcerers and bards? their chr prolly wont be a dump stat, and if it is then u arnt building a very good character. there are also many class abilities that rely on the chr mod of the character for times per day. how many special abities rely on str to determine times per day. not alot if any
Sajek
06-09-07, 03:48 PM I don't think Charisma determines physical attractiveness. Why? A beholder has Charisma 18. Your telling me you want to hit that?
DragonStrife
06-09-07, 05:05 PM I have a 1/2 celestial elf cleric that have high stats(bonuses) How ever, she's leading a group of lvl 1s (she's a lvl 2 at the moment) I have to make sure when I sick 8 zombie Kobolds on them that she doesn't kill them all before anyone else gets a chance(str:21). Her Charisma is needed in this campaign even though it is mostly out of towns because she needs to talk to people that are very on edge and most likely befriend animals. Turing undead is also very useful, her Cha. is something like 20(she rolled a 17(?)). So Charisma has its uses.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sotha_syl 06-05-07, 09:43 PM	Strength applies to melee (and some ranged) attack and damage rolls and carrying capacity. Dexterity applies to initiative, armor class, and reflex saves. Constitution applies to health and fortitude saves. Intelligence applies to skill points and is a caster stat for several classes. Wisdom applies to will saves and is a caster stat for several classes. Charisma is only a main caster stat for several classes. I realize that all of the stats apply to several skills and other minor things in game, but these are the main uses for the six stats. And it seems to me that charisma doesn't get enough love. I know I'm not overlooking something, but is there some kind of other mechanic or solid thing that charisma can apply to? Maybe in a source book, or in someone's house rules. I realize it dictates almost all social interaction, but so can the other stats in many ways, and they all have their uses like that that make them important for roleplaying, and thus a solidly roleplayed character does not need charisma, necessarily. So don't call me a powergamer or a munchkin or whatever, I can see the values of charisma as the 'social interaction stat'. I just wish it had further uses, so many players I know call it the 'universal dump stat' and I'd like to remedy that somehow. So, any ideas?
Rerecros 06-05-07, 09:46 PM	I've heard this before. The best solution i've heard is to use Cha for initiative. Dex contributes to so many things already, and it makes sense for a character thats bursting with mojo to be the first to react.
Sotha_syl 06-05-07, 09:59 PM	I've heard this before. The best solution i've heard is to use Cha for initiative. Dex contributes to so many things already, and it makes sense for a character thats bursting with mojo to be the first to react. Blah. Dexterity makes sense for that, and I don't see any reason to detract from it. It doesn't make much sense to me, either. It seems that a character that has a very fast reaction time will take action before a socially adept and self-assured character with a strong force of personality.
CryoSilver 06-05-07, 10:49 PM	Charisma is used in many WIll save calculations for special attacks, such as frightful presence.
SillyRobot 06-05-07, 11:16 PM	I've constructed specific mechanical house rules for Charisma and those social interactions I don't want to play out (such as shopping). I have a set of rules for finding rare or difficult to purchase items (magic, illegal poisons, etc.), selling services in town (training others, selling magic item construction, selling unusual services). Most of the rules are based around either a level + Cha bonus or a social skill such as Gather Information.
Araxiss 06-05-07, 11:31 PM	It helps turning/rebuking/controling undead for clerics.
MerlintheTuna 06-05-07, 11:54 PM	Charisma can get you nearly everything, with the right tool. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=320889) Sometimes twice.
ekeeb 06-05-07, 11:59 PM	its used in turning/rebuking undead, primary ability for certain spellcasters, used for Lay on Hands. its your force of personality, it determines how socially inept you are compared to others, and if your Dm really hates you, he can throw an intelligent item at you with an ego over 19, and then you have to roll a charisma check to overcome the personality of the item and control it, instead of it controlling you. charisma is also how attractive you are to creatures (or people) who find your race attractive, thats why fey have such high charisma scores. Ekeeb :D
Vharuck 06-06-07, 12:04 AM	To a monster with spell-like abilities, Charisma is awesome.
Thomar_of_Uointer 06-06-07, 12:21 AM	Don't underestimate the skill-based uses of Charisma. Besides being able to bend NPCs to your whims, the Use Magic Device skill lets you fake being a spellcaster to use scrolls and wands (arguably the best bang for the buck if you don't want to dedicate yourself to a spellcasting class, and you don't suffer from the low Hit Dice).
Someone 06-06-07, 02:49 AM	A high Cha makes you less likely to pass out from a touch of idiocy spell, perhaps?
Mystyc 06-06-07, 03:44 AM	Yeah, those are all things Charisma affects, but they're almost all class-dependent. Things like saving throws, skill points, and carrying capacity affect pretty much every character all the time. The best suggestion I've seen is to have your CHA modifier apply to your action point total each level.* In a pulp-cinematic environment like Eberron, characters with greater presence are more "plot-worthy," so they should be able to tweak fate in their favor more often. Of course, you have to be using action points to do this, but I like them anyhow. * -- I recommend reducing the normal total as well, so your APs are 3 + CHA + 1/2 level. Making points a little scarcer means getting more from CHA is more valuable. And yes, this is a house rule. RAW, Charisma just doesn't do much for a lot of characters.
Dragonsblood 06-06-07, 04:03 AM	Rogues use it with the bluff skill to feint in combat.
Leo 06-06-07, 04:37 AM	Charisma determines how cool your character looks. By the rules you can't have that awe inspiring warrior with golden hair and blue eyes(or anything else exotic) if you don't put some effort into charisma.
StormKnight 06-06-07, 10:44 AM	Any of the high CHA benefits that involve skills you would also get from a high INT, a few levels, and spending the bonus skill points in the right place. CHA is not as good as the other stats. I think it says as much somewhere in the DMG about designing PC races and giving racial bonuses and penalties. As suggested already, price reductions or extra action points are good ways to balance it out a bit. The game Runequest, which used the same base stats as D&D, had CHA modify all sorts of abilities, because it meant the gods would pay more attention to you. By the rules you can't have that awe inspiring warrior with golden hair and blue eyes... Er, sounds like an ok way to play, but "by the rules?" I don't think the rules say anything like that at all :)
hiryuu 06-06-07, 11:49 AM	Er, sounds like an ok way to play, but "by the rules?" I don't think the rules say anything like that at all :) Oddly enough, it does (but it also doesn't mean pretty; it also could mean "unique"). Look at the definition of Charisma in the 3.5 PH. If your Charisma is low, expect your character to come off as unimpressive, unattractive, and unremarkable (heck, Tieflings in 2E got a Chariwma bonus because they looked exotic and intriguing; it was removed in 3E because the designers didn't read their own material decided "icky" = Cha penalty). _________________ For one of my homebrew settings, everything has a mana die or mana total (yes, even objects). It's sort of like a metaphysical HP track; you can use it to convert damage you're taking to nonlethal damage, power magical devices, power magic, activate magical effects on things (like channeling your mana into a door to activate its locking mechanism), and lots of creatures deal mana damage. Hitting 0 mana is just like hitting 0 hp, and you can even die as your soul starts to fade away. It's modified by your Charisma.
Astron the Wizard 06-06-07, 12:06 PM	if you're in a dungeon crawl, there's almost no use for charisma (unless you're a sorcerer or a bard) in combat situations, but those "charisma based skills and other minor things" you talk about could be extremely useful in some campaigns, or what if there's a good aligned monster in the dungeon who you don't want to kill, but you want the treasure in the next room? Diplomacy to the recue!
Prof. Pacali 06-06-07, 12:17 PM	Don't underestimate the value of having a character with high charisma. A well designed Sorceror or Hexblade can have people eating out of his hands with a Bluff or Diplomacy check, and the right words. As for no use in a dungeon crawl, how do you plan to find the dungeon in the first place without a Gather Information check? :rolleyes:
DaidojiTaidoru 06-06-07, 12:32 PM	Charisma is the Strength of the mental stats. Good to have more then 6 in. Useful for many classes. Worthless for many classes. A Barbarian will take whatever Charisma he can get without being burned at the stake (though more would be nice). A Druid will take whatever strength score will allow him to carry his food, and wait until wildshape kicks in to melee things. edit: Though if you want to make having a Charisma lower then 6 apply in a few more cases you could use it as the Force of Will stat. IE: Wisdom is resisting mental effects, charisma is causing mental effects. It'll only come up in things like morphic planes and other odd situations, but it is something to do with it.
Edymnion 06-06-07, 12:36 PM	http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=837660
Sotha_syl 06-06-07, 02:39 PM	Yes, yes, I realize charisma is used for all sorts of misc skills and class features and such things, christ. So is every stat, and thus it doesn't balance out to equal all the other stats as far as covering the basics. Well, I suppose it's time to switch things up with a houserule, Haven't seen anything here that does it for me I guess.
Findail 06-06-07, 04:27 PM	Leadership, the most powerful feat in the game (and available to every class except some oddball PrC's), uses Charisma. Without other modifiers, you need a Charisma of at least 10 if you take Leadership at 6th level to get a 4th level cohort (your cohort must be at least 2 levels below you). If you wait till 9th, you need a Charisma of 12 to get a 7th level cohort. The longer you wait, the more Charisma you need: and if you lose your cohort, you will have problems at high levels getting another cohort 2 levels below you without a substantial Cha modifier. You could buy an item, but that's money you could be spending on other things.
StormKnight 06-06-07, 05:14 PM	Diplomacy to the recue! A well designed Sorceror or Hexblade can have people eating out of his hands with a Bluff or Diplomacy check, and the right words. As for no use in a dungeon crawl, how do you plan to find the dungeon in the first place without a Gather Information check? CHA +1 = +1 Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate at level 1. INT +1 = +1 Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate at level 1. And another +1 to one of those skills every level.
Prof. Pacali 06-06-07, 05:27 PM	CHA +1 = +1 Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate at level 1. INT +1 = +1 Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate at level 1. And another +1 to one of those skills every level. If bluff, diplomacy, gather information, and intimidate are not on your class skill list then the Charisma bonus will help you more in the long run, because you won't waste the 4 skill points you get at 1st level buying ranks in a cross-class skill.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 06-06-07, 06:03 PM	CHA +1 = +1 Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate at level 1. INT +1 = +1 Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate at level 1. And another +1 to one of those skills every level. You miss the part where there is a limit to how many ranks you can have. There is not a limit to how much you can add due to Charisma. Edit: And it assumes you aren't putting any ranks in those skills in the first place, which is frankly ludicrous.
Vharuck 06-06-07, 06:09 PM	Yes, yes, I realize charisma is used for all sorts of misc skills and class features and such things, christ. So is every stat, and thus it doesn't balance out to equal all the other stats as far as covering the basics. Well, I suppose it's time to switch things up with a houserule, Haven't seen anything here that does it for me I guess. Funny thing is those skills and class features are what contribute most to a character's power.
Karish 06-06-07, 06:20 PM	Charisma lets me look badass and scare the living hell out of things when mized with Intimidate. That's all I need, any class, any level. Charisma makes me cool. I can worry about death afterwards. :3
Electric_Zombie 06-06-07, 06:20 PM	If you're a Paladin and/or Blackgaurd, you get your Charisma bonus to all your saves. Pretty damn nice.
TinyHowie 06-06-07, 07:57 PM	In rules terms and solely rules, Charisma also affects NPC attitude to you. Diplomacy is capable of turning a "hostile" situation to "neutral" or "friendly" situation. It's only matter of players' approach when encountering others. How cool you look? Hmmm... ghouls have 13 charisma, higher than most non charisma based classes. They are intimidating only because of their claw claw bite + paralyze at that low CR. Perhaps it's a way to reflect how undeads strike fear over other creatures.
Leo 06-06-07, 11:00 PM	Well, str is quite usefull, yet more than half the classes out there use it as dump stat(aka non melees). Go figure.
Dragonsblood 06-07-07, 04:37 AM	Any of the high CHA benefits that involve skills you would also get from a high INT, a few levels, and spending the bonus skill points in the right place. Unless your social skills are already maxed. You also make "a few levels" seem like such a trivial thing, when in many campaigns it can take months to get a few levels.
jeffepp 06-07-07, 11:48 AM	The type of play that you use is important when considering how important Charisma is. If you are running nothing but combat heavy dungeon grinder sessions, then social skills may not be worth much. However, if you are doing city based games, with lots of RP and only occasional fighting, Charisma skills come at premium, for any class. There is no point in getting militant about how important or unimportant the stat is, with out considering this aspect.
Sotha_syl 06-08-07, 05:22 PM	Funny thing is those skills and class features are what contribute most to a character's power. :rolleyes: Hilarious. The intent of my original post was to take skills and class features out of the picture, seeing as those are a massive variable and it's difficult to compare much of anything between them without an awful lot of things to consider. I suppose what I'm saying is that charisma, in terms of what all the base stats do, is the weakest. It doesn't give you anything on the side, excluding all of the following: skills, feats, class features, spells, and anything of the sort. There's really no arguing that, because it really and truly does not. And I know I'm bound to receive the "well that's why charisma is so good" argument. Honestly, all the stats apply to certain skills, feats, class features, spells, etc. Some more than others in certain cases, but that isn't the point.
Astron the Wizard 06-08-07, 09:31 PM	well, once again, you must consider the type if campaign you are running. An urban campaign may easily depend on a high charisma.
Vurgyl 06-09-07, 09:58 AM	A 1st level Ftr. faces a group of Orcs.He is one of six soldiers.But unlike the rest,he hates these Orcs especially. You could create encounters dramatically charged.The soldier's older brother was killed by this particular Orc clan.He adds his CHA.mod. to his weapon damage+STR. If the PC is chasing someone,or trying to reach another player,they add their CHA. mod. to any DEX checks they may have to make.(Please note:if they roll too low,they won't be very pretty then.) My PC and I felt the same about CHA. not getting enough mileage.Ihope this helps.
Optimized_Commoner 06-09-07, 10:49 AM	Charisma is the special ability stat. Strength is the brute force stat. Dexterity is the 'fight on your own terms' stat. Intelligence is the extra options stat. Wisdom is the 'don't screw up' stat. Constitution is the 'go longer' stat.
wierd_crew_inja 06-09-07, 11:23 AM	chr can be a very good stat depending on how u roleplay. if you roleplay along with your stats then if you have a low chr then you prolbaly wont talk alot to shopkeeps and the like its like a barbarian haveing a chr 6 and the Player talking to NPCs as if he had a really high chr and things of the like also for the whole chr being the dump stat, well thast only for certain classes as well. i doupt a fighter will have a very high chr mainly becasue his strs dont realy on it. a barbarian the samething. but what about sorcerers and bards? their chr prolly wont be a dump stat, and if it is then u arnt building a very good character. there are also many class abilities that rely on the chr mod of the character for times per day. how many special abities rely on str to determine times per day. not alot if any
Sajek 06-09-07, 03:48 PM	I don't think Charisma determines physical attractiveness. Why? A beholder has Charisma 18. Your telling me you want to hit that?
DragonStrife 06-09-07, 05:05 PM	I have a 1/2 celestial elf cleric that have high stats(bonuses) How ever, she's leading a group of lvl 1s (she's a lvl 2 at the moment) I have to make sure when I sick 8 zombie Kobolds on them that she doesn't kill them all before anyone else gets a chance(str:21). Her Charisma is needed in this campaign even though it is mostly out of towns because she needs to talk to people that are very on edge and most likely befriend animals. Turing undead is also very useful, her Cha. is something like 20(she rolled a 17(?)). So Charisma has its uses.