Charisma [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Charisma [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Zaknafein43608
12-12-06, 08:49 AM Hello all!
I was wondering, if Charisma not only governs force of personality, but looks as well, how does one play a decent sorcerer character that may have been horribly scarred in a magical accident? I was looking to play a character than was horribly burned so he basically has no face to speak of. If Charisma is my key ability, how would I do this then?
Seghan
12-12-06, 09:02 AM Think of for example Seal. Not that he is nearly as extreme as what your character sounds like, he does have a badly scarred face but still is regarded as a very charasmatic and even sexy individual by many women (including his supermodel significant other). Basically, looks really are only a part of charisma and personality and bearing play a huge role. IN a practical sense, I would give him one outstanding facial feature that survived the burning, particularly the eyes. Picture the horribly scarred face with intense blue eyes glareing out. That can make up for a lot.
CryoSilver
12-12-06, 09:08 AM Personally, I let PCs be as pretty/ugly as they want, independent of Charisma.
Zaknafein43608
12-12-06, 09:10 AM Okay. I think this helps. Thank you.
frasmage
12-12-06, 10:24 AM charisma is more force of personallity, way with words and their aura over others.

For example, most undead are horrid creatures, but have high charisma because they have an aura of fear and creepiness about them.

Also a thug may be revolting to look at, but thats not to say he can't talk his way out of any trouble that he runs into.
Grand Theft Otto
12-12-06, 11:19 AM I think the line about charisma being looks is simply a holdover from earlier editions. I ignore it. Your average ghast has a 16 charisma... how sexy do you think they are?
Zaknafein43608
12-12-06, 11:20 AM I think the line about charisma being looks is simply a holdover from earlier editions. I ignore it. Your average ghast has a 16 charisma... how sexy do you think they are?

Lmao! Thanks!
pita
12-12-06, 11:24 AM A mind flayer is too sexy for his shirt.
Also, Book of Erotic Fantasy, while being very amusing with the concepts about D&D's "screwy" side, has a new attribute, appearance, which me and my friends use and it replaces charisma every now and then. (getting a group of orcs to like you because "you're too pretty to be against them" is going to use appearance, unlike "you can smash them into tiny pieces."
JulesCARV
12-12-06, 11:41 AM Come up with a concept for why your sorcerer is so charismatic. Physical attractiveness could have been a viable conceptual way of describing your character's high charisma, but in the case of your character, it isn't, so why else might he be so charismatic? Is he extremely passionate about something, extremely intense in his beliefs, desires, or convictions? Or is he extremely self-confident and bold?
Vestigial_Thumb
12-12-06, 02:06 PM Think of for example Seal. Not that he is nearly as extreme as what your character sounds like, he does have a badly scarred face but still is regarded as a very charasmatic and even sexy individual by many women (including his supermodel significant other).
He is quite handsome even with the scarring.

BTW, I'm a straight guy, so I may not be the best judge.
Solaris
12-12-06, 02:36 PM Also, Book of Erotic Fantasy, while being very amusing with the concepts about D&D's "screwy" side, has a new attribute, appearanceBack in 1st Edition it was called Comeliness:

Comeliness reflects physical attractiveness, social grace, and personal beauty of the character. It is used to determine initial reactions to the character, and characters with a high comeliness may affect the wills and actions of others. While charisma deals specifically with leadership and interactions between characters, comeliness deals with attractiveness and first impressions.
Robert Craven
12-12-06, 03:53 PM Charisma includes all aspects of social interaction. You may be extremly pretty or you may be extremely frightening or just "charimatic". All the conversation in the room stops as you enter just for your presence.

Just look at the skills that go with charisma:
Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, Gather Information, Handle Animal, Perform, Use Magic Device (and Leadership)

And think about people in history who had a high charisma score (in DnD terms)
Hitler fascinated millions, and I am sure only a few weirdos think, he was sexy
Ghandi, Lenin and others changed the world because of their high charisma.

Or think about some actors: Jack Nickolson definately is not a beau, but he has high charisma (which makes him attractive to some females)

and so on.
Sim_antix
12-12-06, 04:00 PM Something that calls attention to you enhances your charisma whether it is extreme attractiveness or horrible disfigurment. Charisma is your ability to command attention and make an impression on people and yes looks do come into play but people get confused because beholders have high Cha scores.

Beholders and other abberations have high Cha scores because they are absolutely monstrous and when you see one you notice it and when it commands its minions they listen. Its a force of personality that takes into account everything that enables you to gain an upperhand when dealing with others and yes being an extremely attractive nymph is one way. Of course its just as good to be a Great Wyrm Dragon that dominates the landscape, hard to not pay attention to that...
theotherdraxen
12-12-06, 04:03 PM I was wondering, if Charisma not only governs force of personality, but looks as well
Everyone knows that sorcery is only skin deep!;)

He is quite handsome even with the scarring.

BTW, I'm a straight guy, so I may not be the best judge.

I thought you were the foremost poster here on manliness. You said so yourself!

Also, who is seal?

Anyway, RAW, charisma can have something to do with your looks, but frankly, it really shouldn't. Looks don't open doors nearly as much as people may wish to think it does. Also, don't assume that a high-charisma means you're nice: it means you have a presence that helps you get your way.

Besides, why wouldn't you make your character attractive? Ugly people can't be heroes! :P
theotherdraxen
12-12-06, 04:04 PM Something that calls attention to you enhances your charisma whether it is extreme attractiveness or horrible disfigurment.
Gouge out an eye! You'll get more spells!

...sorry, couldn't resist.
BlaineTog
12-12-06, 04:11 PM Charisma as appearance makes patantly no sense when you look into what it's used for and who has what scores. Once you remember that beauty is in the eye of the onlooker (no bad puns today, sorry), it starts making even less sense. Occam tells me that it's easiest to just ignore that little phrase in the abilities write up than to BS your way through the spellcasting system, each Moster Manual, the social skills, and basic reasoning.
Sim_antix
12-12-06, 04:17 PM Gouge out an eye! You'll get more spells!

...sorry, couldn't resist.
I never said that getting bonus spells for looking good or bad was a good idea just that the way charisma works anything that calls attention to yourself should increase your charisma, its even like that in real life.

Look at Joseph Merrick...
Vestigial_Thumb
12-12-06, 04:19 PM I thought you were the foremost poster here on manliness. You said so yourself!
It takes a man to recognize another man's true beauty. By beauty, I do not mean fragile, womanly beauty, but a rugged, bearded one.
Also, who is seal?
Seal (capital S; it's his name) is a musician most famous for songs such as Killer, Crazy and Kiss from a Rose (IIRC, it was one of the songs used in Batman Returns). He has facial scarring caused by a childhood case of lupus.
Besides, why wouldn't you make your character attractive? Ugly people can't be heroes! :P
Exactly.
General_Ridley
12-12-06, 06:52 PM It takes a man to recognize another man's true beauty. By beauty, I do not mean fragile, womanly beauty, but a rugged, bearded one.

and we all know there is only one man who conveys that type of beauty perfectly.
Vestigial_Thumb
12-12-06, 06:54 PM and we all know there is only one man who conveys that type of beauty perfectly.
Does his name begin with a C and end with a roundhouse kick?

I know the answer and I expect you to all to know it, too.
Cael
12-12-06, 10:10 PM No. He is bald, black, and has a glowing sword.... mother-er! :D
Seghan
12-12-06, 10:17 PM No. He is bald, black, and has a glowing sword.... mother-er! :D

Seal?!
nightwyrm
12-12-06, 10:55 PM Seal?!

I would think Samual L. Jackson from the description.
Magetastic
12-13-06, 08:07 PM mace windu?
Rogue Shadows
12-13-06, 08:14 PM Charisma determines force of personality. It is, by definition in the Monster Manual, the thing that a creature uses to tell itself apart from things that are not itself.

Charisma =/= appearance. Rather, people with strong forces of personality often seek to manifest this in their physical appearance. Someone with high charisma knows to bathe regularly, brush the hair, dress in the finest, because this increases the effect one has on other people.

An ugly creature...such as, say, most demons and devils...can still have very high charisma, due to their force of personality.
Morrowner
12-13-06, 08:36 PM Give the guy a nickname and since he is a sorcerer say its something he picked up while learning magic. Most guys when the acid arrow slams them in the face die or give up but Algric the Scarred said "Screw that. I will master my magical side".
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
12-13-06, 09:29 PM People tend to misunderstand the line about "appearance". They attach a qualifier there that isn't there. The guy who is ugly as sin is just as charismatic as Helen, with all other factors the same. Why? Because you're going to remember both of their faces.
Sim_antix
12-13-06, 09:56 PM People tend to misunderstand the line about "appearance". They attach a qualifier there that isn't there. The guy who is ugly as sin is just as charismatic as Helen, with all other factors the same. Why? Because you're going to remember both of their faces.
Yes exactly. Appearance is a part of charisma, period.
Cael
12-13-06, 10:00 PM I would think Samual L. Jackson from the description.
Yep. Sam Jackson :) There is a Sam Jackson Fighter Fix running around in the Classes board.
theotherdraxen
12-13-06, 10:02 PM Yes exactly. Appearance is a part of charisma, period.

I'm ugly so I get more spells? :confused:

You'll notice that, via the reincarnation spell, only physical stats change. Even when your appearance changes, your mental stats stay the same. An ugly scar has nothing to do with your charisma, or when you changed your form, your charisma would alter.
Sim_antix
12-13-06, 10:06 PM I'm ugly so I get more spells? :confused:

You'll notice that, via the reincarnation spell, only physical stats change. Even when your appearance changes, your mental stats stay the same. An ugly scar has nothing to do with your charisma, or when you changed your form, your charisma would alter.
I never said that wizards had any clue how to design rules, just that charisma is most certainly influenced by appearance.
theotherdraxen
12-13-06, 10:08 PM I never said that wizards had any clue how to design rules, just that charisma is most certainly influenced by appearance.

Ah, RAW, charisma is linked to appearance (and it is). Gotcha.
Vestigial_Thumb
12-14-06, 09:03 AM There is a Sam Jackson Fighter Fix running around in the Classes board.
I lost the thread.

Also, Samuel L. Jackson is not rugged and bearded. He's handsome in a different way: Being a smooth mother****er.
BlaineTog
12-14-06, 10:43 AM People tend to misunderstand the line about "appearance". They attach a qualifier there that isn't there. The guy who is ugly as sin is just as charismatic as Helen, with all other factors the same. Why? Because you're going to remember both of their faces.Right, which is to say it has nothing to do with your charisma score.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zaknafein43608 12-12-06, 08:49 AM	Hello all! I was wondering, if Charisma not only governs force of personality, but looks as well, how does one play a decent sorcerer character that may have been horribly scarred in a magical accident? I was looking to play a character than was horribly burned so he basically has no face to speak of. If Charisma is my key ability, how would I do this then?
Seghan 12-12-06, 09:02 AM	Think of for example Seal. Not that he is nearly as extreme as what your character sounds like, he does have a badly scarred face but still is regarded as a very charasmatic and even sexy individual by many women (including his supermodel significant other). Basically, looks really are only a part of charisma and personality and bearing play a huge role. IN a practical sense, I would give him one outstanding facial feature that survived the burning, particularly the eyes. Picture the horribly scarred face with intense blue eyes glareing out. That can make up for a lot.
CryoSilver 12-12-06, 09:08 AM	Personally, I let PCs be as pretty/ugly as they want, independent of Charisma.
Zaknafein43608 12-12-06, 09:10 AM	Okay. I think this helps. Thank you.
frasmage 12-12-06, 10:24 AM	charisma is more force of personallity, way with words and their aura over others. For example, most undead are horrid creatures, but have high charisma because they have an aura of fear and creepiness about them. Also a thug may be revolting to look at, but thats not to say he can't talk his way out of any trouble that he runs into.
Grand Theft Otto 12-12-06, 11:19 AM	I think the line about charisma being looks is simply a holdover from earlier editions. I ignore it. Your average ghast has a 16 charisma... how sexy do you think they are?
Zaknafein43608 12-12-06, 11:20 AM	I think the line about charisma being looks is simply a holdover from earlier editions. I ignore it. Your average ghast has a 16 charisma... how sexy do you think they are? Lmao! Thanks!
pita 12-12-06, 11:24 AM	A mind flayer is too sexy for his shirt. Also, Book of Erotic Fantasy, while being very amusing with the concepts about D&D's "screwy" side, has a new attribute, appearance, which me and my friends use and it replaces charisma every now and then. (getting a group of orcs to like you because "you're too pretty to be against them" is going to use appearance, unlike "you can smash them into tiny pieces."
JulesCARV 12-12-06, 11:41 AM	Come up with a concept for why your sorcerer is so charismatic. Physical attractiveness could have been a viable conceptual way of describing your character's high charisma, but in the case of your character, it isn't, so why else might he be so charismatic? Is he extremely passionate about something, extremely intense in his beliefs, desires, or convictions? Or is he extremely self-confident and bold?
Vestigial_Thumb 12-12-06, 02:06 PM	Think of for example Seal. Not that he is nearly as extreme as what your character sounds like, he does have a badly scarred face but still is regarded as a very charasmatic and even sexy individual by many women (including his supermodel significant other). He is quite handsome even with the scarring. BTW, I'm a straight guy, so I may not be the best judge.
Solaris 12-12-06, 02:36 PM	Also, Book of Erotic Fantasy, while being very amusing with the concepts about D&D's "screwy" side, has a new attribute, appearanceBack in 1st Edition it was called Comeliness: Comeliness reflects physical attractiveness, social grace, and personal beauty of the character. It is used to determine initial reactions to the character, and characters with a high comeliness may affect the wills and actions of others. While charisma deals specifically with leadership and interactions between characters, comeliness deals with attractiveness and first impressions.
Robert Craven 12-12-06, 03:53 PM	Charisma includes all aspects of social interaction. You may be extremly pretty or you may be extremely frightening or just "charimatic". All the conversation in the room stops as you enter just for your presence. Just look at the skills that go with charisma: Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, Gather Information, Handle Animal, Perform, Use Magic Device (and Leadership) And think about people in history who had a high charisma score (in DnD terms) Hitler fascinated millions, and I am sure only a few weirdos think, he was sexy Ghandi, Lenin and others changed the world because of their high charisma. Or think about some actors: Jack Nickolson definately is not a beau, but he has high charisma (which makes him attractive to some females) and so on.
Sim_antix 12-12-06, 04:00 PM	Something that calls attention to you enhances your charisma whether it is extreme attractiveness or horrible disfigurment. Charisma is your ability to command attention and make an impression on people and yes looks do come into play but people get confused because beholders have high Cha scores. Beholders and other abberations have high Cha scores because they are absolutely monstrous and when you see one you notice it and when it commands its minions they listen. Its a force of personality that takes into account everything that enables you to gain an upperhand when dealing with others and yes being an extremely attractive nymph is one way. Of course its just as good to be a Great Wyrm Dragon that dominates the landscape, hard to not pay attention to that...
theotherdraxen 12-12-06, 04:03 PM	I was wondering, if Charisma not only governs force of personality, but looks as well Everyone knows that sorcery is only skin deep!;) He is quite handsome even with the scarring. BTW, I'm a straight guy, so I may not be the best judge. I thought you were the foremost poster here on manliness. You said so yourself! Also, who is seal? Anyway, RAW, charisma can have something to do with your looks, but frankly, it really shouldn't. Looks don't open doors nearly as much as people may wish to think it does. Also, don't assume that a high-charisma means you're nice: it means you have a presence that helps you get your way. Besides, why wouldn't you make your character attractive? Ugly people can't be heroes! :P
theotherdraxen 12-12-06, 04:04 PM	Something that calls attention to you enhances your charisma whether it is extreme attractiveness or horrible disfigurment. Gouge out an eye! You'll get more spells! ...sorry, couldn't resist.
BlaineTog 12-12-06, 04:11 PM	Charisma as appearance makes patantly no sense when you look into what it's used for and who has what scores. Once you remember that beauty is in the eye of the onlooker (no bad puns today, sorry), it starts making even less sense. Occam tells me that it's easiest to just ignore that little phrase in the abilities write up than to BS your way through the spellcasting system, each Moster Manual, the social skills, and basic reasoning.
Sim_antix 12-12-06, 04:17 PM	Gouge out an eye! You'll get more spells! ...sorry, couldn't resist. I never said that getting bonus spells for looking good or bad was a good idea just that the way charisma works anything that calls attention to yourself should increase your charisma, its even like that in real life. Look at Joseph Merrick...
Vestigial_Thumb 12-12-06, 04:19 PM	I thought you were the foremost poster here on manliness. You said so yourself! It takes a man to recognize another man's true beauty. By beauty, I do not mean fragile, womanly beauty, but a rugged, bearded one. Also, who is seal? Seal (capital S; it's his name) is a musician most famous for songs such as Killer, Crazy and Kiss from a Rose (IIRC, it was one of the songs used in Batman Returns). He has facial scarring caused by a childhood case of lupus. Besides, why wouldn't you make your character attractive? Ugly people can't be heroes! :P Exactly.
General_Ridley 12-12-06, 06:52 PM	It takes a man to recognize another man's true beauty. By beauty, I do not mean fragile, womanly beauty, but a rugged, bearded one. and we all know there is only one man who conveys that type of beauty perfectly.
Vestigial_Thumb 12-12-06, 06:54 PM	and we all know there is only one man who conveys that type of beauty perfectly. Does his name begin with a C and end with a roundhouse kick? I know the answer and I expect you to all to know it, too.
Cael 12-12-06, 10:10 PM	No. He is bald, black, and has a glowing sword.... mother-er! :D
Seghan 12-12-06, 10:17 PM	No. He is bald, black, and has a glowing sword.... mother-er! :D Seal?!
nightwyrm 12-12-06, 10:55 PM	Seal?! I would think Samual L. Jackson from the description.
Magetastic 12-13-06, 08:07 PM	mace windu?
Rogue Shadows 12-13-06, 08:14 PM	Charisma determines force of personality. It is, by definition in the Monster Manual, the thing that a creature uses to tell itself apart from things that are not itself. Charisma =/= appearance. Rather, people with strong forces of personality often seek to manifest this in their physical appearance. Someone with high charisma knows to bathe regularly, brush the hair, dress in the finest, because this increases the effect one has on other people. An ugly creature...such as, say, most demons and devils...can still have very high charisma, due to their force of personality.
Morrowner 12-13-06, 08:36 PM	Give the guy a nickname and since he is a sorcerer say its something he picked up while learning magic. Most guys when the acid arrow slams them in the face die or give up but Algric the Scarred said "Screw that. I will master my magical side".
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 12-13-06, 09:29 PM	People tend to misunderstand the line about "appearance". They attach a qualifier there that isn't there. The guy who is ugly as sin is just as charismatic as Helen, with all other factors the same. Why? Because you're going to remember both of their faces.
Sim_antix 12-13-06, 09:56 PM	People tend to misunderstand the line about "appearance". They attach a qualifier there that isn't there. The guy who is ugly as sin is just as charismatic as Helen, with all other factors the same. Why? Because you're going to remember both of their faces. Yes exactly. Appearance is a part of charisma, period.
Cael 12-13-06, 10:00 PM	I would think Samual L. Jackson from the description. Yep. Sam Jackson :) There is a Sam Jackson Fighter Fix running around in the Classes board.
theotherdraxen 12-13-06, 10:02 PM	Yes exactly. Appearance is a part of charisma, period. I'm ugly so I get more spells? :confused: You'll notice that, via the reincarnation spell, only physical stats change. Even when your appearance changes, your mental stats stay the same. An ugly scar has nothing to do with your charisma, or when you changed your form, your charisma would alter.
Sim_antix 12-13-06, 10:06 PM	I'm ugly so I get more spells? :confused: You'll notice that, via the reincarnation spell, only physical stats change. Even when your appearance changes, your mental stats stay the same. An ugly scar has nothing to do with your charisma, or when you changed your form, your charisma would alter. I never said that wizards had any clue how to design rules, just that charisma is most certainly influenced by appearance.
theotherdraxen 12-13-06, 10:08 PM	I never said that wizards had any clue how to design rules, just that charisma is most certainly influenced by appearance. Ah, RAW, charisma is linked to appearance (and it is). Gotcha.
Vestigial_Thumb 12-14-06, 09:03 AM	There is a Sam Jackson Fighter Fix running around in the Classes board. I lost the thread. Also, Samuel L. Jackson is not rugged and bearded. He's handsome in a different way: Being a smooth mother****er.
BlaineTog 12-14-06, 10:43 AM	People tend to misunderstand the line about "appearance". They attach a qualifier there that isn't there. The guy who is ugly as sin is just as charismatic as Helen, with all other factors the same. Why? Because you're going to remember both of their faces.Right, which is to say it has nothing to do with your charisma score.