Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bartmanhomer 12-01-04, 07:37 PM	Can children be played as Player Chrachters? (For example 6 or 7 years old?)
shakedown47 12-01-04, 07:52 PM	A rock can be a PC, it just wouldn't be challenging or that much fun. In answer to your question though: OF COURSE.
stonehill_troll 12-01-04, 08:36 PM	Can children be played as Player Chrachters? (For example 6 or 7 years old?) Grimm is the game you are looking for (D20 rule set), by Fantasy Flight Games. Just picked it up myself, haven't played yet though it looks really interesting and certainly different. Many people have been talking about it over on ENWorld's boards, there should be a review over there that you can read. Children PCs in a twisted fairy tale world....
sothpaw 12-01-04, 08:44 PM	my DM once allowed childer PCs, but they sucked because they had penalties to strength, constitution, and intelligence, and only a plus two to charisma and far as bonuses. but if you had a really nice DM who let you play a PC around age 10, that would be kinda neat...
catharz 12-02-04, 02:35 AM	Does anyong else think that it is just wrong to let a kid go up against an otyugh or something? I mean, kids shold be in school :teach:
CzarGarrett 12-02-04, 07:56 AM	Does anyong else think that it is just wrong to let a kid go up against an otyugh or something? I mean, kids shold be in school :teach: Kids don't learn anything in schools nowadays anyway.
Seeker95 12-02-04, 11:03 AM	If we are really going to be PC about it, they should be referred to as "pre-adults". :P
Aliquid 12-02-04, 11:34 AM	If we are really going to be PC about it, they should be referred to as "pre-adults". :PChronologically challenged?
Seeker95 12-02-04, 02:01 PM	Chronologically challenged?That's just for the "pre-adults" that show up late. :P
Ogre4Hire 12-02-04, 04:08 PM	Kids don't learn anything in schools nowadays anyway. Sadly, that's entirely true.
Miles Vorkosigan 12-02-04, 06:19 PM	Imagine a campaign based on kids who play hookey and instead save the world in delve into ancient and forgotten knowledge... How delightfully ironic. :D -MVK
Bartmanhomer 12-03-04, 04:07 PM	Does that included babies as well? :confused:
sothpaw 12-05-04, 01:32 PM	Does that included babies as well? :confused: interesting thought... "but mommy, i dont want to kill the orc!"
Fasius 12-05-04, 01:58 PM	Imagine the fearsome sight of a 2-year old Frenzied Berserker wielding a greatsword while charging a Red Dragon.
KangsRegiment 12-06-04, 12:45 PM	They have stats for making (human) child characters in the d20 Modern book.
MrMorden 01-13-05, 02:43 PM	It seems that in order for a character to have "standard" stats, he must be at least sexually mature...say 14 years old or so for a human. Below that, there would have to be penalties to STR, WIS, and maybe even DEX. I'd probably give them bonuses to CON and CHA (most folks like or at least tolerate kids). Plus skills and experience would be a problem. I'd have a tough time believing a 9 year old could be a second or third level fighter, and could kick butt on an average town guard... One good solution if you want to try this is a "prequel" adventure. Have the players generate PCs normally, then subtract 2 points from ALL stats, half their skill ranks, and give them no special class abilities at all. Then run them through a very low-level adventure, like maybe fleeing as their village is razed by Orcs and having to evade the Orcs in the nearby hills. Assuming the PCs survive and make it to the nearest city, advance time 3-10 years, and give them back all their abilities and stats. That could be a lot of fun.
Thanatos02 01-13-05, 04:05 PM	Part of the problem with child PC's is that PC classes frequently require training. Most children wouldn't have access to it, but what I would suggest is giving the following: Adolecent: -1 Str. +1 Dex. Child: -1 Str. -1 Con. +1 Dex. They're smaller, and thus more dexterous (which may be why that (female) gymnists stop after they reach a certain age). However, without being fully mature, they lack muscle mass and perhaps the immune system of an older person. (Children and the elderly are the most damaged by disease.) I would, story allowing, accept a child PC - a Sorcerer, Barbarian, Rogue are the most probable. Child savant Wizards, Psions, fighters-in-training, the praticularly faithful or wise, ect might also be possible. Some classes just are worse of then others due to the Str. penalties but fulfill praticular niches in literature.
Kursk 01-13-05, 10:18 PM	The minimum age for a class by race in the PHB is when you'd reach 1st level. It is assumed a character has been building towards this until that age. A kid is training under his "Barbarian" father until that age. So, you could play a kid but you'd be 0 level until that age...
Wharin 01-14-05, 12:05 AM	Yeah, i mean, i suppose its possible, but the idea of kid PC's bothers me. Other than dex, they should have some massive penalties to stats. Yes this includes int and cha, which so many people here are convinced children should get. OK, so here is my thoughts on all the stats and how they apply to children. As a reference i am using 8-10 age range. i mean an adult is, by DnD, 15 which is still very young by todays standards, but there is definately a major growth development (physical AND mental) that happens between 8 and 15. As for how you would stat out a 12 year old and a 14.9 year old is hard, as there is definately a growing process that is taking place that can very from person to person. A kid in no way is stronger or nearly as strong as he would be as an adult, if he is as strong than is at 10 as he would be at 30, this person has really really let himself go. So a big str penalty (i think -4 is in order, but i coud forsee more). I know that i thought i was big stuff for being able to bench 100 lbs back in 6th grade. Thats now 1/3 of what i can bench now. Dex i am not so sure about. The only arguement for a better dex than an adult are all the gymnasts that strive to stay young, threw drugs. I suppose this is true in some aspects. Though i personally think it has to do more with keeping his/her weight down as to maintain the ability to lift oneself up with ease. Leaving dex as is would be appropriate. Though i would give kids the small size reflecting their nimbleness. People say that kids can spring up from all their bumps and bruises they inflict on themselves, and as such they deserve either to maintain their normal con or to even have a better con score. Yeah but thats because alot of kids couldnt be that lethal to one another if they tried, (reflected by their weak str score) external weapons excluded. If an adult were to attack a kid, god forbid, i doubt that said kid would able to take any hits before going down. I know as i a kid i got sick 10 x more often that i do now as an adult. As such i think that a con -4 would be appropriate, if not more. Int i am again, not the most positive on how to argue for or against. I know that IQ is something someone is born with, and not learned, but dang, i find it hard to believe that a kid is as sharp as he could be as an adult without the proper education. I'll let this go, but i wouldnt mind seeing a -2 (or more) to int as well. I mean when we say that a grown adult is operating at the same level as a 4th grader, we are not saying that he is operating mentally as a normal adult, right? Wis. Ah yes... I know ever kid thinks they know everything and has experienced all they need to know under the sun. And as we grow up we come to realise that alot of us we're pretty foolish. We did a lot of dumb things, which seemed like a good idea at the time. And we often said that people were stupid if they didnt see things your way. But until you grow up you only see the world threw rose coloured glasses. Heck, even some of us who are adults still take this "its either my way or its dumb" approach, even though they no nothing of what they are talking about. Not very wise people, eh? Id go with a wis -4 I know alot of people think that kids are naturally well liked, or whatever, but how much respect to most kids demand? Sure they, now, might get their parents to do whatever they want with the power of the all-mighty tantrum, but in a soceity that wouldnt prevent beatings (ie, not the modern western world), i doubt that a kid could afford to be anything other than subserviant (special cases excluded). How many times did you convince a grown-up that you were not the one who through the rock at the window? Cha -4. But often times they are one notch higher on the npc reaction chart. So, yeah does this seem fair and balanced for a game? Not really. But i dont think that Gygax or WotC ever intended kids to be the champions of justice (or tyranny or whatever). Could a character make it on his own when he is 8? Not at *nearly* the success rate as a child that was raised by adults. I would think that most children would be level 1 commoners, with that commoner level serving as a place holder till he would gain a level as a core class, which i wouldnt allow till majority. I just really dont like the idea of playing a game where kids take on the world and risk their lives for a world they barely spent any time on. Meh my 2 cp's. Hopefully i didnt offend too many people.
Token 01-14-05, 01:50 AM	Does anyong else think that it is just wrong to let a kid go up against an otyugh or something? I mean, kids shold be in school :teach: School these days is a glorified daycare center. I think it would be awesome if kids pulled their weight by killing off some of the things that prey on innocent passerbys, bringing home their own dinner, etc. It wasn't very long ago (about 150-200 years ago) that kids were married off by age 12 or so, with a dozen or more kids to of their own in the next 10 years. Of course, mortality rates were so high, most kids didn't survive to age 12. Maybe the mortality rate thing is assiciated with kids fighting monsters. Maybe the reformists who want a return to "the good old days" aren't really far from the mark... :devil: So to answer your question, nobody cares.
Token 01-14-05, 02:01 AM	Part of the problem with child PC's is that PC classes frequently require training. Most children wouldn't have access to it, but what I would suggest is giving the following: Adolecent: -1 Str. +1 Dex. Child: -1 Str. -1 Con. +1 Dex. They're smaller, and thus more dexterous (which may be why that (female) gymnists stop after they reach a certain age). However, without being fully mature, they lack muscle mass and perhaps the immune system of an older person. (Children and the elderly are the most damaged by disease.) Are you kidding? Children's immune system, while it might not have the antibodies of a full-adult (though an active kid who crawls through dungeons, sewers, etc would get them quickly), but a child's immune system is stronger than an adults. That's why doc's say to expose kids to chicken pox, the measles, etc, at an early age. Because as an adult they wont be able to fight it as well. I would, story allowing, accept a child PC - a Sorcerer, Barbarian, Rogue are the most probable. Child savant Wizards, Psions, fighters-in-training, the praticularly faithful or wise, ect might also be possible. Some classes just are worse of then others due to the Str. penalties but fulfill praticular niches in literature.The real reason kids don't have experience THESE DAYS, is that we put them in schools where they aren't taught anything, and they can't gain any real-world expierence. Furthermore, schools cater to 80 IQ students, who should be taught how to do the manual labor they will end up doing anyway later in life, so the smart kids can be taught useful stuff at a pace that isn't so slow they forget everything in the last paragraph (from a month and a half ago).
Squall_the_paladin 01-14-05, 02:24 AM	Two quick statements: In D&D the school system actually does a DECENT job of teaching children, so stating the obvious in relation to D&D seems kind of off. Secondly, what parent in the right mind would allow their child to just run off and start fighting evil at a young age, no matter what setting it is? Of course that can be answered by saying that their parents died, but what about others? Adoption had to start somewhere and I seriously doubt someone would let them run around with nobody to take care of them. Having gotten those points out of the way, a young campaign would be focused more on the initial training so that the child could become that fighter he/she has always wanted to be, or whatever class he/she decides to take, and if your players are ready for a deeply immersed role-playing experience rather than "roll-playing", then I would say yes, run a campaign with children. If they aren't ready for that level of role-playing, then I would personally scrap this idea until they are. I'm babbling on now and have lost my topic somewhere so I'm just going to leave and see if I can catch up with my mind now (the little bugger's been taking off without the protection my skull provides it). All of that is my 2 gil worth though. Good day.
DaveReaves 01-14-05, 02:34 AM	A rock can be a PC, it just wouldn't be challenging or that much fun. I played a rock once in a RIFTS game. It was quite chalenging balancing the psyonics points I used to move myself and what I used for battle. It was also one of my favorite characters. As for children as PCs. Sure why not, and to put an interesting spin on it, I think it would be fun to have all the children PCs have actualy been adults who just woke up one day as children. Now they have a plot hook to go and break a wizard and kill a curse.
sooperspook 01-14-05, 02:57 AM	Actually i believe the fact that most beings with levels are young adult or older is due to the fact that they didnt HAVE to go adventuring when they were younger and not because kids automatically cant do it. Sure , because of strength penalties and what not they wont be as good, but that doesnt mean the can't. If you go to some of the poorer countries , even today, you will find kids who do jobs that adults do in wealthier countries. and often as well as the adults do. And in medieval society orpphans were often on their own. heck even in victorian times they usually were. (Oliver Twist anyone?) This mean that they would have to 'grow up' mentally if not physically a lot faster. as reflected in them gaining levels. as for stat penalties, remember that , depending on age, kids will be a size catagory smaller which carries with it its own penalties and benefits.
Token 01-14-05, 03:28 AM	Secondly, what parent in the right mind would allow their child to just run off and start fighting evil at a young age, no matter what setting it is? Of course that can be answered by saying that their parents died, but what about others? Adoption had to start somewhere and I seriously doubt someone would let them run around with nobody to take care of them. Perhaps a parent that isn't overprotective, mabye one that has to work the farm all day, while the kid explores the surrounding land, learning how to survive as a serf/pesant/farmer's kid. Perhaps the kid ran away/wandered off when he realized his only future was doing what his parents did. This could easily explain a rogue or barbarian. Perhaps he was *gasp* kidnapped and separated from his parents before permenate memories set in, and he was trained by an evil wizard who pushed him, punished him sevrely for failure, and he learned as much as he could to escape as soon as he could - but he took a spellbook with him... Or maybe his parent(s) is/are fully capable wizards of their own right and pushed him to excel early, and as soon as he could get a 1 missle magic missle spell down, they dropped him in the middle of the wild to survive. Kind of like throwing your weakling kid into a lions den. The kid has two options: survive and grow powerful, or get eaten. Try pulling your head out of american culture long enough to realize that kids are fully capable human beings that are only weakend by coddling. Try reading some stories about kids that were written before the over-protective thing became an issue, like huckleberry finn.
Ogre4Hire 01-14-05, 01:16 PM	There's a bit of a difference between fishing or working on a farm and fighting Dragons, you know.
Gurv 01-14-05, 02:54 PM	I would say that the average child would not be capable of adventuring. Before the starting age given in the PHB, they have not developed adult strength, stamina, cognitive ability, social skills or anything else. The stat system actually fails to work for them as well as it does for the adults they were designed around. Con, for example, measures stamina, basic resiliance, and resistance to disease and poison. Children are somewhat more resistant to disease, but are more susceptable to poisons, and although they have more energy than an adult, they have less stamina. However, if you want an adventuring child, I suggest just using the rules for reducing a creature's size. The result won't be identical to a normal child, but then again, this is no normal child you are working with here. -4 Str, +2 Dex, -2 Con, and all the adjustments of a Small creature. You can attempt to make something more realistic than this, but not in D&D. By the time a child has 5 levels in anything, realism is pretty much out the window anyhow.
sooperspook 01-14-05, 11:44 PM	There's a bit of a difference between fishing or working on a farm and fighting Dragons, you know. True , but 1st level Adult wouldnt be fighting dragons either. Besides i'm pretty sure i've read stories about children going off and having adventures without adults or at least with minimal adult help. Whats wrong with wanting to duplicate those stories? Can anyone think of any kids stories where the protagonist is a child and does the 'swords and sorcery ' thing? my minds gone blank for the moment.
Jefuri no Oni 01-14-05, 11:58 PM	True , but 1st level Adult wouldnt be fighting dragons either. Besides i'm pretty sure i've read stories about children going off and having adventures without adults or at least with minimal adult help. Whats wrong with wanting to duplicate those stories? Can anyone think of any kids stories where the protagonist is a child and does the 'swords and sorcery ' thing? my minds gone blank for the moment. Well there's Harry Potter.
Lokiyn 01-15-05, 12:01 AM	Are the children natural children? or are they former adults. I tend to annoy my dm occasionally by reducing my age to 10 or so for my wizard with a spell from the BoVD. Of course you have to factor in the equipment penalties for children combined with lowered strength and stamina (i know kids can play all day but give them a 10lb sword and armor to lug around and they probably will get tired quick.)
oberyn 01-15-05, 06:27 AM	take a thief is a book about a kid whos mistreated by his uncle he had training after he ran away first by a master thief with parilyzed legs and then by an order that are pallidinish so by the time he was 13 he could rob you blind and with throwing weapons kick your sorry... well you get the idea.
Bartmanhomer 01-15-05, 02:12 PM	I thought of something. Can a child join forces with adventurer of adult and eldery?