Class limits? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Class limits? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Orion Polaris
10-13-04, 01:22 PM Is there a total limit for the number of classes a character can take? EG) Can my character be a Barbarian/Fighter/Ranger/Cleric? Is the max just three?

Also can you take more than one Prestige Class, eg) Can my character be a Gladiator/Tactical Soldier?

Also does anyone have any 3.0 conversions for the 2.0 monster the Peryton?

kthxbai
caeruleus
10-13-04, 01:27 PM You can take as many classes and prestige classes as you like, so long as you meet all requirements.

The peryton has been reprinted... but I can't remember if it was in Monster Manual 2, Fiend Folio, or Monsters of Faerun. I think it's in one of those, though.
The Shaman
10-13-04, 01:28 PM The peryton was updated to 3.0 - it's in Monsters of Faerun.

There is no limit on multi-classing with core classes other than alignment and class restrictions.

PrC multi-classing, and PrCs in general, are up to the GM.
Orion Polaris
10-13-04, 01:32 PM The peryton was updated to 3.0 - it's in Monsters of Faerun.

There is no limit on multi-classing with core classes other than alignment and class restrictions.

PrC multi-classing, and PrCs in general, are up to the GM.

Of course, almost everything is up to the GM.

I'm the GM of my games and I was just wondering if it's normally allowable because a multiclassed Barbarian/Fighter/Ranger/Cleric seems to be better than a pure Barbarian or pure Fighter or pure Ranger or Pure Cleric of equal level...
Sulaco
10-13-04, 02:10 PM Of course, almost everything is up to the GM.

I'm the GM of my games and I was just wondering if it's normally allowable because a multiclassed Barbarian/Fighter/Ranger/Cleric seems to be better than a pure Barbarian or pure Fighter or pure Ranger or Pure Cleric of equal level...

Multi-class PCs aren't "better" than straight-class PCs per se, they are just more versatile. The more classes you add the more of a defecit it becomes at higher levels. He becomes the embodiment of the phrase "Jack of all trades, master of none".

A 4th level Bar1/Ftr1/Rng1/Clr1 is a powerhouse but a 20th level Bar5/Ftr5/Rng5/Clr5 will have his ass handed to him ten times over by a 20th level straight-class PC pretty much regardless of what that class is.
Zherog
10-13-04, 02:16 PM A 4th level Bar1/Ftr1/Rng1/Clr1 is a powerhouse but a 20th level Bar5/Ftr5/Rng5/Clr5 will have his ass handed to him ten times over by a 20th level straight-class PC pretty much regardless of what that class is.

Except Bard. :schemes:
q'afuu
10-13-04, 02:23 PM Except Bard. :schemes:
Riiiiiiight. Check the Will save on that 20th level character - even while raging that char doesn't stand a chance against any of the bard's charm spells or abilities.
Zherog
10-13-04, 05:16 PM Well, while I was being sarcastic....

A Bar5/Ftr5/Rng5/Clr5 would have a base will save of +7. Assuming the character has a 13 wisdom (needed to cast his cleric spells), that's another +1. An item to boost his Wisdom isn't unreasonable at 20th level - but we'll go small and say he only has a +2 item, for another +1. Through in a cloak of resistance +5 and rage. For a total of +16. If he happens to be a dwarf or elf, that's another +2 you can throw into it, for a total of +18. I don't think any of that is being over the top cheesy.

So now our bard. We can assume his charisma is up around a 28, for a modifier of +9. So the save DC against the bard's highest level spells (6th level) is 25. We can even throw in Spell Focus (Enchantment), if you'd like, for a total of 26.

So for our Barbarian to make his save against our bard's best spells he'll need to roll an 8 or better. That's a 65% success rate against the bard's best spells.

Yeah, you're right - the bard totally owned that Bar5/Ftr5/Rng5/Clr5. :rolleyes:
q'afuu
10-13-04, 07:11 PM We can assume his charisma is up around a 28, for a modifier of +9. 16 starter, +5 from levels, +3 inherent (to stay conservative), +6 Cloak of Charisma - that's +10 right there. +1 from Spell Focus, of desired. +2 morale from a simple Candle of Invocation - that makes +13. Use UMD and a wand of Enervation to take off 1d4 of the target's save mod - no save, and it's a touch attack - shouldn't be too hard. Get a scroll and have it maximized if necessary. If the bard wins init, forget about the scroll and move immediately for the save or die (no rage). Plus, there's no way said multiclasser is going to get that bard down in 2-3 rounds if the bard has half a brain and uses it - if the spell is saved against, cast it again. Unless the multiclassed spends an absolutely inordinate amount of money and other resources on boosting his Will save, he won't have a chance in hell.

I knew you were being sarcastic. That doesn't mean erroneous slights against the bard class are any less tiresome. :bored:
Zherog
10-13-04, 08:08 PM If you want to start throwing in other magic items, I can certainly get the target's will save higher than I did above.

The bard won't have as easy of a time as you're making it out to be.
q'afuu
10-14-04, 07:48 AM If you want to start throwing in other magic items, I can certainly get the target's will save higher than I did above.
I throw in other magic items because they're entirely appropriate for the character. What bard doesn't want a cloak of charisma, which is dead cheap at level 20? UMD is the single most effective skill a bard can take aside from Perform, of course he should invest in it - and wands are again dead cheap at level 20 too.

As I said above, sure you can increase the other's Will save inordinately if you want to, but what you'd be doing is patching up a weakness at the cost of most of the build's strong points. If you do that, the build is going to be completely ineffective at pretty much anything but making saves.
Zherog
10-14-04, 10:36 AM Q'afuu, I like bards. I think they're interesting, and can make for a fun class. But come on.

We'll add in your stuff. We'll take my bard:

So now our bard. We can assume his charisma is up around a 28, for a modifier of +9. So the save DC against the bard's highest level spells (6th level) is 25. We can even throw in Spell Focus (Enchantment), if you'd like, for a total of 26.

We'll bump his Charisma up to 30, because you're right - 30 is a conservative number for a 20th level character's primary stat. We'll add the Candle of invocation (+2) and the wand of enervation (-2 to will save, or, effectively, +2 to the DC). So now we've raised the bard's DC all the way up to 31 for his highest level spells.

We had established +18 as the multiclassed character's Will Save total. So now to make the save, he'll need to roll a 13 or better. The multiclass character has a 40% chance to succeed against the bard's best spells. The bard has a good chance - better than 50/50 - but he's hardly dominating the multiclass character.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Orion Polaris 10-13-04, 01:22 PM	Is there a total limit for the number of classes a character can take? EG) Can my character be a Barbarian/Fighter/Ranger/Cleric? Is the max just three? Also can you take more than one Prestige Class, eg) Can my character be a Gladiator/Tactical Soldier? Also does anyone have any 3.0 conversions for the 2.0 monster the Peryton? kthxbai
caeruleus 10-13-04, 01:27 PM	You can take as many classes and prestige classes as you like, so long as you meet all requirements. The peryton has been reprinted... but I can't remember if it was in Monster Manual 2, Fiend Folio, or Monsters of Faerun. I think it's in one of those, though.
The Shaman 10-13-04, 01:28 PM	The peryton was updated to 3.0 - it's in Monsters of Faerun. There is no limit on multi-classing with core classes other than alignment and class restrictions. PrC multi-classing, and PrCs in general, are up to the GM.
Orion Polaris 10-13-04, 01:32 PM	The peryton was updated to 3.0 - it's in Monsters of Faerun. There is no limit on multi-classing with core classes other than alignment and class restrictions. PrC multi-classing, and PrCs in general, are up to the GM. Of course, almost everything is up to the GM. I'm the GM of my games and I was just wondering if it's normally allowable because a multiclassed Barbarian/Fighter/Ranger/Cleric seems to be better than a pure Barbarian or pure Fighter or pure Ranger or Pure Cleric of equal level...
Sulaco 10-13-04, 02:10 PM	Of course, almost everything is up to the GM. I'm the GM of my games and I was just wondering if it's normally allowable because a multiclassed Barbarian/Fighter/Ranger/Cleric seems to be better than a pure Barbarian or pure Fighter or pure Ranger or Pure Cleric of equal level... Multi-class PCs aren't "better" than straight-class PCs per se, they are just more versatile. The more classes you add the more of a defecit it becomes at higher levels. He becomes the embodiment of the phrase "Jack of all trades, master of none". A 4th level Bar1/Ftr1/Rng1/Clr1 is a powerhouse but a 20th level Bar5/Ftr5/Rng5/Clr5 will have his ass handed to him ten times over by a 20th level straight-class PC pretty much regardless of what that class is.
Zherog 10-13-04, 02:16 PM	A 4th level Bar1/Ftr1/Rng1/Clr1 is a powerhouse but a 20th level Bar5/Ftr5/Rng5/Clr5 will have his ass handed to him ten times over by a 20th level straight-class PC pretty much regardless of what that class is. Except Bard. :schemes:
q'afuu 10-13-04, 02:23 PM	Except Bard. :schemes: Riiiiiiight. Check the Will save on that 20th level character - even while raging that char doesn't stand a chance against any of the bard's charm spells or abilities.
Zherog 10-13-04, 05:16 PM	Well, while I was being sarcastic.... A Bar5/Ftr5/Rng5/Clr5 would have a base will save of +7. Assuming the character has a 13 wisdom (needed to cast his cleric spells), that's another +1. An item to boost his Wisdom isn't unreasonable at 20th level - but we'll go small and say he only has a +2 item, for another +1. Through in a cloak of resistance +5 and rage. For a total of +16. If he happens to be a dwarf or elf, that's another +2 you can throw into it, for a total of +18. I don't think any of that is being over the top cheesy. So now our bard. We can assume his charisma is up around a 28, for a modifier of +9. So the save DC against the bard's highest level spells (6th level) is 25. We can even throw in Spell Focus (Enchantment), if you'd like, for a total of 26. So for our Barbarian to make his save against our bard's best spells he'll need to roll an 8 or better. That's a 65% success rate against the bard's best spells. Yeah, you're right - the bard totally owned that Bar5/Ftr5/Rng5/Clr5. :rolleyes:
q'afuu 10-13-04, 07:11 PM	We can assume his charisma is up around a 28, for a modifier of +9. 16 starter, +5 from levels, +3 inherent (to stay conservative), +6 Cloak of Charisma - that's +10 right there. +1 from Spell Focus, of desired. +2 morale from a simple Candle of Invocation - that makes +13. Use UMD and a wand of Enervation to take off 1d4 of the target's save mod - no save, and it's a touch attack - shouldn't be too hard. Get a scroll and have it maximized if necessary. If the bard wins init, forget about the scroll and move immediately for the save or die (no rage). Plus, there's no way said multiclasser is going to get that bard down in 2-3 rounds if the bard has half a brain and uses it - if the spell is saved against, cast it again. Unless the multiclassed spends an absolutely inordinate amount of money and other resources on boosting his Will save, he won't have a chance in hell. I knew you were being sarcastic. That doesn't mean erroneous slights against the bard class are any less tiresome. :bored:
Zherog 10-13-04, 08:08 PM	If you want to start throwing in other magic items, I can certainly get the target's will save higher than I did above. The bard won't have as easy of a time as you're making it out to be.
q'afuu 10-14-04, 07:48 AM	If you want to start throwing in other magic items, I can certainly get the target's will save higher than I did above. I throw in other magic items because they're entirely appropriate for the character. What bard doesn't want a cloak of charisma, which is dead cheap at level 20? UMD is the single most effective skill a bard can take aside from Perform, of course he should invest in it - and wands are again dead cheap at level 20 too. As I said above, sure you can increase the other's Will save inordinately if you want to, but what you'd be doing is patching up a weakness at the cost of most of the build's strong points. If you do that, the build is going to be completely ineffective at pretty much anything but making saves.
Zherog 10-14-04, 10:36 AM	Q'afuu, I like bards. I think they're interesting, and can make for a fun class. But come on. We'll add in your stuff. We'll take my bard: So now our bard. We can assume his charisma is up around a 28, for a modifier of +9. So the save DC against the bard's highest level spells (6th level) is 25. We can even throw in Spell Focus (Enchantment), if you'd like, for a total of 26. We'll bump his Charisma up to 30, because you're right - 30 is a conservative number for a 20th level character's primary stat. We'll add the Candle of invocation (+2) and the wand of enervation (-2 to will save, or, effectively, +2 to the DC). So now we've raised the bard's DC all the way up to 31 for his highest level spells. We had established +18 as the multiclassed character's Will Save total. So now to make the save, he'll need to roll a 13 or better. The multiclass character has a 40% chance to succeed against the bard's best spells. The bard has a good chance - better than 50/50 - but he's hardly dominating the multiclass character.