Clerics... ? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Clerics... ? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Chrono Nexus
03-03-07, 12:46 PM I'm a little confused as to how clerics function thematically in a party. Often, they do nothing aside from adventure with the party- which may or may not further the cause of their religion or deity.
Also, how can a cleric sell his healing? It seems to me all the proceeds would need to go to the church he follows, since it isn't his power to heal, it's his god's.
How would a magical religion be organized? In the real world, a large amount of religion is built around attaining the faith and belief of it's followers. In a world where magic and miracles are real (or even commonplace), this aspect of faith seems like it would be replaced.
danzibr
03-03-07, 01:02 PM To me, it doesn't seem that clerics necessarily have to further the cause of their god. Any given deity in D&D probably has many, many followers and may not really care what's happening on the material plane. A rough example would be one of the demon lords... I think that's what they're called, anyways. Like the Demogorgon. I remember reading that one of them totally didn't care whether he had followers or not.

I may be straying. Regardless, as for selling healing, why not? Someone gives a cleric some money and they patch them up. Well, if they're evil they could just rob the person, and good deities would probably prefer to have them do it for free, but... yeah.

And a magical religion? I don't know, like other religions but instead of worshipping a god you're worshipping an object, sort of.

I have no idea what kind of answers you wanted, but that's a bit of what I think. Oh, and for fitting in thematically, it depends on what you're talking out. Playing the role of the party cleric? I suppose they'd use their magic and such and maybe preach to their party members... or not. But simply playing the role of an adventurer? Then yeah, just going with the party would be fine, I suppose.

Dan
Azezel
03-03-07, 01:08 PM Firstly - don't underestimate the concept of friendship.

So long as a party is not actively working against the designs of his patron god a Cleric is quite happy to be part of a party just for the sake of friendship.

A Cleric who charges for healing (as most of them do - outside of the scope of the 'freind' thing), may choose to give the proceeds over to his church - but why should he? Clerics, by their nature are always doing the will of their deity (at least in a broad sense - if they wren't doing the will of their daity, they woud not be Clerics now, would they). So any money made from magic can be kept by the cleric, and used by that Cleric to serve his god.

Buying a suit of +5 Full Plate does serve the Cleric's god, incidentally, because it keeps the Cleric alive, and a living Cleric is the best kind.

As for how a raligeon functions in a magic world - better minds than your or mine have asked that question. For my part, I see it like this:

All of the gods are real - it is patent fact, no faith involved. A person does not beleive in gods any more than he 'beleives' in shoes or cats - he knows for a fact that they exist.

Now - worship & prayer is something else. A person (even a Cleric) likely prays to many gods - going on a journey? Pray to Farlanghn. Want a good harvest? Pray to Obad-Hai. Want somebody to die? Pray to Nerul...

However, each person probably only worships one god. Worship implies a sense of devotion, of dedication. A prayer is just asking for a favour - worship is praise and devotion.
danzibr
03-03-07, 01:16 PM However, each person probably only worships one god. Worship implies a sense of devotion, of dedication. A prayer is just asking for a favour - worship is praise and devotion.

Very nice destinction. But yeah, overall, good call.

Dan
Cromag
03-03-07, 01:37 PM If people don't have to pay for a service in some way then it tends not to be valued and becomes over used. Start handing out food for free and if it's any good it will disappear very quickly and with little thanks as people grab as much as they can

I'm sure that a lot of healing is done under the table when deemed necessary (especially for members of the same religion), but if it wasn't a temple would become overwhelmed and not be able to help those truly in need.

Keep in mind also that most of the money most likely goes to funding the church and keeping the clerics fed/clothed. This is just another way to accept tithes for the church.

As far as a church charging for miracles, the Catholic church used to charge money to be forgiven their sins. Most cults require that you donate all earthly possessions.

The gods probably don't care about cash, but if you consider it as a physical representation of their devotion to the church that is a completely different matter. Also the gods (in D&D) usually like having bigger temples/more followers and cash helps with that too.
RadicalTaoist
03-04-07, 06:05 PM Am I the only one who thinks it odd that clerics are as separated from the rest of the world as they are in D&D? Perhaps even to the point of feeling that such a separation shouldn't be represented in the mechanics?
Kursk
03-04-07, 08:02 PM I'm a little confused as to how clerics function thematically in a party. Often, they do nothing aside from adventure with the party- which may or may not further the cause of their religion or deity.

I don't know. In my games if he runs across a situation where they can forward the interests of their god they do so. I also have adventures every once in a while that takes them into situations that maybe their god wants "handled".
It's up to the DM. In my world Clerical powers aren't free.
_SIN_
03-04-07, 09:49 PM Clerics... ? WTF's a cleric?..... Ain't it one of those NPC classes?....

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Chrono Nexus 03-03-07, 12:46 PM	I'm a little confused as to how clerics function thematically in a party. Often, they do nothing aside from adventure with the party- which may or may not further the cause of their religion or deity. Also, how can a cleric sell his healing? It seems to me all the proceeds would need to go to the church he follows, since it isn't his power to heal, it's his god's. How would a magical religion be organized? In the real world, a large amount of religion is built around attaining the faith and belief of it's followers. In a world where magic and miracles are real (or even commonplace), this aspect of faith seems like it would be replaced.
danzibr 03-03-07, 01:02 PM	To me, it doesn't seem that clerics necessarily have to further the cause of their god. Any given deity in D&D probably has many, many followers and may not really care what's happening on the material plane. A rough example would be one of the demon lords... I think that's what they're called, anyways. Like the Demogorgon. I remember reading that one of them totally didn't care whether he had followers or not. I may be straying. Regardless, as for selling healing, why not? Someone gives a cleric some money and they patch them up. Well, if they're evil they could just rob the person, and good deities would probably prefer to have them do it for free, but... yeah. And a magical religion? I don't know, like other religions but instead of worshipping a god you're worshipping an object, sort of. I have no idea what kind of answers you wanted, but that's a bit of what I think. Oh, and for fitting in thematically, it depends on what you're talking out. Playing the role of the party cleric? I suppose they'd use their magic and such and maybe preach to their party members... or not. But simply playing the role of an adventurer? Then yeah, just going with the party would be fine, I suppose. Dan
Azezel 03-03-07, 01:08 PM	Firstly - don't underestimate the concept of friendship. So long as a party is not actively working against the designs of his patron god a Cleric is quite happy to be part of a party just for the sake of friendship. A Cleric who charges for healing (as most of them do - outside of the scope of the 'freind' thing), may choose to give the proceeds over to his church - but why should he? Clerics, by their nature are always doing the will of their deity (at least in a broad sense - if they wren't doing the will of their daity, they woud not be Clerics now, would they). So any money made from magic can be kept by the cleric, and used by that Cleric to serve his god. Buying a suit of +5 Full Plate does serve the Cleric's god, incidentally, because it keeps the Cleric alive, and a living Cleric is the best kind. As for how a raligeon functions in a magic world - better minds than your or mine have asked that question. For my part, I see it like this: All of the gods are real - it is patent fact, no faith involved. A person does not beleive in gods any more than he 'beleives' in shoes or cats - he knows for a fact that they exist. Now - worship & prayer is something else. A person (even a Cleric) likely prays to many gods - going on a journey? Pray to Farlanghn. Want a good harvest? Pray to Obad-Hai. Want somebody to die? Pray to Nerul... However, each person probably only worships one god. Worship implies a sense of devotion, of dedication. A prayer is just asking for a favour - worship is praise and devotion.
danzibr 03-03-07, 01:16 PM	However, each person probably only worships one god. Worship implies a sense of devotion, of dedication. A prayer is just asking for a favour - worship is praise and devotion. Very nice destinction. But yeah, overall, good call. Dan
Cromag 03-03-07, 01:37 PM	If people don't have to pay for a service in some way then it tends not to be valued and becomes over used. Start handing out food for free and if it's any good it will disappear very quickly and with little thanks as people grab as much as they can I'm sure that a lot of healing is done under the table when deemed necessary (especially for members of the same religion), but if it wasn't a temple would become overwhelmed and not be able to help those truly in need. Keep in mind also that most of the money most likely goes to funding the church and keeping the clerics fed/clothed. This is just another way to accept tithes for the church. As far as a church charging for miracles, the Catholic church used to charge money to be forgiven their sins. Most cults require that you donate all earthly possessions. The gods probably don't care about cash, but if you consider it as a physical representation of their devotion to the church that is a completely different matter. Also the gods (in D&D) usually like having bigger temples/more followers and cash helps with that too.
RadicalTaoist 03-04-07, 06:05 PM	Am I the only one who thinks it odd that clerics are as separated from the rest of the world as they are in D&D? Perhaps even to the point of feeling that such a separation shouldn't be represented in the mechanics?
Kursk 03-04-07, 08:02 PM	I'm a little confused as to how clerics function thematically in a party. Often, they do nothing aside from adventure with the party- which may or may not further the cause of their religion or deity. I don't know. In my games if he runs across a situation where they can forward the interests of their god they do so. I also have adventures every once in a while that takes them into situations that maybe their god wants "handled". It's up to the DM. In my world Clerical powers aren't free.
_SIN_ 03-04-07, 09:49 PM	Clerics... ? WTF's a cleric?..... Ain't it one of those NPC classes?....