Post/Author/DateTime	Post
RickyD 05-20-05, 07:19 PM	The problem at hand stems from a question brought up last session: “What is your movement rate for a round if you can fly and run?” Let’s say for example a character that normally moves at 60ft/round has the fly spell (3.0) cast on them and can now can fly at 90ft/round. What is their actual movement rate then? Can they only choose one or the other? Can they move for 55ft then fly 90ft? The only reasonable answer I could think of seems a bit tidious for quick combat calculations. I was thinking of both movement rates in terms of a ratio, so if you flew for 45ft then you can run for 60-(45/90) = 30ft. Now should they have moved 40ft then it really starts to muck things up. I did a quick scan of the boards but I can’t seem to find any mention of this sort of problem there or in the rulebooks. Fly is a fairly common spell so such problems must have come up before. If anyone has any opinion or house-rules related to his I’d love to hear them. Thank you. RickyD
Flushmaster 05-20-05, 08:09 PM	I'm not sure of an official rule pertaining to this, but I'd use the proportion method (as you mentioned). However, I'd only let the character use a run action if they are capable of using the run action while in flight (which the fly spell doesn't allow). They could also take a double move action (no running, no non move actions) to move their full base land speed and then their base fly speed, or vice versa).
Prgrmr@wrk 05-20-05, 08:21 PM	I'd just take the simple way out, and make them use the lesser of the 2 movement rates. So the example character could move for 25 ft, and then fly for 35 feet, or any division thereof. It's not as 'fair' as a proportional movement rate would be, but it's a heck of a lot easier to calculate, and accounts for any time it would take to activate the flight ability. I can't see this situation coming up enough to justify any fancy rules.
Arrowhen 05-21-05, 01:35 AM	The first time it happened in my game, I'd probably just as the player how far she thought she could move and decide on the fly if that was reasonable or not. If it was something she was planning on doing all the time though, I'd divide both movement rates by five and figure it out on a second-by-second basis, leaving the "extra" second in the round to account for switching movement modes. So, if you had a flight speed of 90 and a ground speed of 60, that would be 18 feet per second flying and 12 feet per second on the ground, rounded to 20 and 10. If you moved 40 feet on the ground, that would be four seconds, another second to take to the air, and 20 more feet in the final second.
Minias 05-21-05, 02:04 AM	I am not sure why you'd make this so difficult. The character could use his first move action to move his ground speed of 60 feet, and then use his fly speed of 90 feet as his second move action for a total of 150 feet. He could reverse the order of movement by moving his fly speed then moving his ground speed. Or he could move his ground speed as both actions for 120 feet. Or he could move his fly speed as both move actions for 180 feet. Or he could run, as a rull round action, for 240 feet (180 feet if in heavy armor, or 300 feet if they have the Run feat)
Dwarsen 05-21-05, 09:24 AM	I'm not sure of an official rule pertaining to this, but I'd use the proportion method (as you mentioned). However, I'd only let the character use a run action if they are capable of using the run action while in flight (which the fly spell doesn't allow). They could also take a double move action (no running, no non move actions) to move their full base land speed and then their base fly speed, or vice versa). You can run while flying if you're flying in a straight line.
Arrowhen 05-21-05, 05:05 PM	I am not sure why you'd make this so difficult. The character could use his first move action to move his ground speed of 60 feet, and then use his fly speed of 90 feet as his second move action for a total of 150 feet. He could reverse the order of movement by moving his fly speed then moving his ground speed. Or he could move his ground speed as both actions for 120 feet. Or he could move his fly speed as both move actions for 180 feet. Well, sure, if you wanted to take a double move. But if you wanted to, say, polymorph into a creature with a swim speed, move to the edge of a body of water, and swim away all in one round, the question of just how far you could move would certainly arise.
Minias 05-21-05, 05:58 PM	I see. Sorry about that. I completely misunderstood the question. In that case, I'd just subtract the distance moved before the change of locomotion from the new mode of movement. For example, in the case of the land speed 60, fly speed 90 character the PC could move up to 60 feet using his land speed and then another 30 feet flying for a total of 90 feet. This is assuming that the change of locomotion is not an action (has wings, under the influence of fly spell, at the beginning of his move. If you reverse the order of locomotion, I'd not give any bonus speed. That is to say that if you flew for 60 feet and landed then your move action is done, but you could fly 30 feet and then move 30 feet of your land speed in one move action. Alternately, I could understand ruling that you could combine speeds but never move more than your greatest speed. In that case you could fly 60 feet and then move 30 feet of land speed (or any combination) such that it the combined movement does not exceed 90 feet (the farthest you could move with any one movement type). Sorry about my eariler confusion.
RickyD 05-24-05, 01:52 PM	You can run while flying if you're flying in a straight line. As far as I was concerned, and from what I've read in the "Rules of the Game" articles, you can only run in flight if you have a natural flight speed, so anyone with the fly spell can only do a hustle (2x fly speed), though if they're flying downwards they double their speed as well. I see. Sorry about that. I completely misunderstood the question. In that case, I'd just subtract the distance moved before the change of locomotion from the new mode of movement. For example, in the case of the land speed 60, fly speed 90 character the PC could move up to 60 feet using his land speed and then another 30 feet flying for a total of 90 feet. This is assuming that the change of locomotion is not an action (has wings, under the influence of fly spell, at the beginning of his move. If you reverse the order of locomotion, I'd not give any bonus speed. That is to say that if you flew for 60 feet and landed then your move action is done, but you could fly 30 feet and then move 30 feet of your land speed in one move action. Alternately, I could understand ruling that you could combine speeds but never move more than your greatest speed. In that case you could fly 60 feet and then move 30 feet of land speed (or any combination) such that it the combined movement does not exceed 90 feet (the farthest you could move with any one movement type). Sorry about my eariler confusion. I'd have to say that is so far the best ruling for combined movement rates. It allows freedom to move between modes without any sort of calculations at all. I like Arrowhen's proposed ruling but I've found that simplicity is often the best solution when dealing with combat. I've already spoken to the DM and he also likes this method. And with the focus of my character involving fleetness and position in battle (my character has mobility, spring attack feats and a variety of speed items), he has ruled for the latter option, so my character is able to move freely between both movement rates as long as long the movement doesn’t exceed the individual movement rate and the total don’t exceed the largest movement rate. Thanks to everyone to replied, it’s always good to go outside of the group and see how other people play their game. RickyD