Complicated Paladin/Monk question (your general 'is it possible' question) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Complicated Paladin/Monk question (your general 'is it possible' question) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Prismatic_Bard
02-26-07, 08:02 AM I was just skimming over the rules for Paladins, monks, and related classes, and after reviewing them, I came up with an interesting question:

Can I take the Paladin class up to level 20, then take the Champion of Torm prestige class to level 10, then 'step off the path' (as described in the PH 3.0) by becoming a Monk, thus retaining all class bonuses for the Paladin and CoT, Raise my Monk level to 20, then change my alignment to Lawful Evil while still retaining all Paladin bonuses because I am no longer bound by their code of honor, 'step off the path' again, then take the Blackguard prestige class to level 10 while still keeping all related class bonuses for the above reasons?

And lets just say that my DM would allow this if I could find adequate rules allowing this class design. And if I could manage to act out the character.

... Now that I have the chance to read over that, it seems a little munchkin-ish.
Evil DM Mk3
02-26-07, 08:07 AM then change my alignment to Lawful Evil while still retaining all Paladin bonuses because I am no longer bound by their code of honor
I think step is where you fall down. Paladins who have taken other classes havnet fallen, they are STILL paladins, just paladins who cannot gain further paladin levels. Go LE and you break the CoC. Anyway this is a what, 60 level build? what type of game are you playing?!
ae020704
02-26-07, 08:20 AM SRD (emphasis added):
Ex-Paladins
A paladin who ceases to be lawful good, who willfully commits an evil act, or who grossly violates the code of conduct loses all paladin spells and abilities (including the service of the paladin’s mount, but not weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies). She may not progress any farther in levels as a paladin. She regains her abilities and advancement potential if she atones for her violations (see the atonement spell description), as appropriate.

Like a member of any other class, a paladin may be a multiclass character, but multiclass paladins face a special restriction. A paladin who gains a level in any class other than paladin may never again raise her paladin level, though she retains all her paladin abilities.

If you have levels in Paladin, you are ALWAYS bound by the Paladin's code. Break the code, and you lose your Paladin abilities.
Prismatic_Bard
02-26-07, 08:55 AM Ah. Dang. I should have guessed that they still count as Paladins, considering how it says 'Paladin' on the character sheet. Oh well :P.

That must have been what kept the DM up all night. Endless laughter :embarrass.

Never mind then.
Prismatic_Bard
02-26-07, 09:04 AM Anyway this is a what, 60 level build? what type of game are you playing?!

It's the ungodly epic, overpowered type of campaign where I have fallen behind and become severely underpowered in comparison to my friends. I was just looking for a quick way to catch up and provide plenty of plot potential to keep the game going.

And with that... I'm off.
Trel
02-26-07, 10:34 AM I'm sure being level 60 you could convince a DM for some Light-loved Traitor feat that makes you keep your class abilities, just supplied by evils.

But with a DM running a game like that, couldnt you save yourself some trouble and use a Pally of Tyranny?
Escef
02-26-07, 11:37 AM You can trade in Paladin levels for Blackguard levels when you class into it. Check the Blackguard PrC description for details.
ArcTan
02-26-07, 05:41 PM ... Now that I have the chance to read over that, it seems a little munchkin-ish.

It's a level 60 character in D&D. I don't think it's just a "little" munchkinish.
ArcTan
02-26-07, 05:43 PM It's the ungodly epic, overpowered type of campaign where I have fallen behind and become severely underpowered in comparison to my friends. I was just looking for a quick way to catch up and provide plenty of plot potential to keep the game going.

Then again, a melee class in an Epic campaign will always lag behind, no matter how hard you try.

But yes, you can turn those Paladin levels into Blackguard levels and get the kinds of benefits you describe.
Leo
02-26-07, 06:38 PM Well, by level 60, you tell Pelor and Asmodeus what to do and be your good evil character:P

(just out of curiosity, what are you fighting in such an high level campaign?:P)
Prismatic_Bard
02-26-07, 08:52 PM Then again, a melee class in an Epic campaign will always lag behind, no matter how hard you try.

But yes, you can turn those Paladin levels into Blackguard levels and get the kinds of benefits you describe.

Hmm... I guess it'll work, but not what I had in mind... besides, does that count for CoT levels, too? Of course, the DM could always allow it anyways :).

Well, by level 60, you tell Pelor and Asmodeus what to do and be your good evil character:P

(just out of curiosity, what are you fighting in such an high level campaign?:P)

Didn't think of that one. That's not a bad idea :P. (by the way, we just finished mopping up virtually every hell in existance. Might as well start ruling them :D)

Well, thanks for answering the question, everyone :D. That about clears everything up.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Prismatic_Bard 02-26-07, 08:02 AM	I was just skimming over the rules for Paladins, monks, and related classes, and after reviewing them, I came up with an interesting question: Can I take the Paladin class up to level 20, then take the Champion of Torm prestige class to level 10, then 'step off the path' (as described in the PH 3.0) by becoming a Monk, thus retaining all class bonuses for the Paladin and CoT, Raise my Monk level to 20, then change my alignment to Lawful Evil while still retaining all Paladin bonuses because I am no longer bound by their code of honor, 'step off the path' again, then take the Blackguard prestige class to level 10 while still keeping all related class bonuses for the above reasons? And lets just say that my DM would allow this if I could find adequate rules allowing this class design. And if I could manage to act out the character. ... Now that I have the chance to read over that, it seems a little munchkin-ish.
Evil DM Mk3 02-26-07, 08:07 AM	then change my alignment to Lawful Evil while still retaining all Paladin bonuses because I am no longer bound by their code of honor I think step is where you fall down. Paladins who have taken other classes havnet fallen, they are STILL paladins, just paladins who cannot gain further paladin levels. Go LE and you break the CoC. Anyway this is a what, 60 level build? what type of game are you playing?!
ae020704 02-26-07, 08:20 AM	SRD (emphasis added): Ex-Paladins A paladin who ceases to be lawful good, who willfully commits an evil act, or who grossly violates the code of conduct loses all paladin spells and abilities (including the service of the paladin’s mount, but not weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies). She may not progress any farther in levels as a paladin. She regains her abilities and advancement potential if she atones for her violations (see the atonement spell description), as appropriate. Like a member of any other class, a paladin may be a multiclass character, but multiclass paladins face a special restriction. A paladin who gains a level in any class other than paladin may never again raise her paladin level, though she retains all her paladin abilities. If you have levels in Paladin, you are ALWAYS bound by the Paladin's code. Break the code, and you lose your Paladin abilities.
Prismatic_Bard 02-26-07, 08:55 AM	Ah. Dang. I should have guessed that they still count as Paladins, considering how it says 'Paladin' on the character sheet. Oh well :P. That must have been what kept the DM up all night. Endless laughter :embarrass. Never mind then.
Prismatic_Bard 02-26-07, 09:04 AM	Anyway this is a what, 60 level build? what type of game are you playing?! It's the ungodly epic, overpowered type of campaign where I have fallen behind and become severely underpowered in comparison to my friends. I was just looking for a quick way to catch up and provide plenty of plot potential to keep the game going. And with that... I'm off.
Trel 02-26-07, 10:34 AM	I'm sure being level 60 you could convince a DM for some Light-loved Traitor feat that makes you keep your class abilities, just supplied by evils. But with a DM running a game like that, couldnt you save yourself some trouble and use a Pally of Tyranny?
Escef 02-26-07, 11:37 AM	You can trade in Paladin levels for Blackguard levels when you class into it. Check the Blackguard PrC description for details.
ArcTan 02-26-07, 05:41 PM	... Now that I have the chance to read over that, it seems a little munchkin-ish. It's a level 60 character in D&D. I don't think it's just a "little" munchkinish.
ArcTan 02-26-07, 05:43 PM	It's the ungodly epic, overpowered type of campaign where I have fallen behind and become severely underpowered in comparison to my friends. I was just looking for a quick way to catch up and provide plenty of plot potential to keep the game going. Then again, a melee class in an Epic campaign will always lag behind, no matter how hard you try. But yes, you can turn those Paladin levels into Blackguard levels and get the kinds of benefits you describe.
Leo 02-26-07, 06:38 PM	Well, by level 60, you tell Pelor and Asmodeus what to do and be your good evil character:P (just out of curiosity, what are you fighting in such an high level campaign?:P)
Prismatic_Bard 02-26-07, 08:52 PM	Then again, a melee class in an Epic campaign will always lag behind, no matter how hard you try. But yes, you can turn those Paladin levels into Blackguard levels and get the kinds of benefits you describe. Hmm... I guess it'll work, but not what I had in mind... besides, does that count for CoT levels, too? Of course, the DM could always allow it anyways :). Well, by level 60, you tell Pelor and Asmodeus what to do and be your good evil character:P (just out of curiosity, what are you fighting in such an high level campaign?:P) Didn't think of that one. That's not a bad idea :P. (by the way, we just finished mopping up virtually every hell in existance. Might as well start ruling them :D) Well, thanks for answering the question, everyone :D. That about clears everything up.