Con damage vs. current and total HP [Archive] - Wizards Community

Con damage vs. current and total HP [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Seamonster
03-04-08, 05:59 AM I have a 2nd level wizard PC in one of the games I run that got hit by poison that causes Con damage. He was damaged previously and took 2 damage out of his total of 7, leaving 5 out of 7 hit points. He fails his second save on the poison, and it deals 3 Con damage to him. That drops his 12 Con to 9 Con.

So, according to the DMG (p. 290), he loses 4 hit points (1 per Hit Dice for each Con modifier lost). That would put him at 1 out of 7 hit points, but that doesn't seem right because it seems like he would also have a diminished TOTAL hit points, but I can't specify whether the DMG is talking about losing current hit points, or TOTAL Hit Points. This would leave him with 1 out of 3 hit points, which seems more accurate, but I don't want to screw him if it's not RAW.

Please help! Are the hit points lost due to Con ability damage from the TOTAL pool, the current pool, or both?
Shaggy_Shaggs
03-04-08, 06:12 AM He's 2 hp down from his max hp, and his max hp has dropped. If he has 2 hitdice and went from 12 Con to 9 Con with 5/7 hp previously, he now has 1/3 hp.

This btw is why all sane folks don't houserule that a barbarian stops raging when unconscious and bleeding out. At/beyond level 5, if that happened his max hp would drop by at least 10 and take his current hp with it, and it'd be instantaneous death.
Seeker95
03-04-08, 08:35 AM The PC is at 1 out of 3 until his Con is restored.if that happened his max hp would drop by at least 10 and take his current hp with it, and it'd be instantaneous death.That's the risk a barbarian takes by raging. Your house rule mollycoddles the barbarian, turning his rage into a freebie rather than a calculated risk.
SillyRobot
03-04-08, 09:26 AM The PC is at 1 out of 3 until his Con is restored.That's the risk a barbarian takes by raging. Your house rule mollycoddles the barbarian, turning his rage into a freebie rather than a calculated risk.

The Barbarian's rage has several events listed in the rules which cause it to fail. Falling unconscious is not one of the listed events. It looks to me like forcing it to fail when the Barbarian falls unconscious is a house rule.
Seeker95
03-04-08, 11:18 AM The Barbarian's rage has several events listed in the rules which cause it to fail. Falling unconscious is not one of the listed events. It looks to me like forcing it to fail when the Barbarian falls unconscious is a house rule.What do you mean "cause it to fail" and "forcing it to fail"?

When rage ends, it ends. Simple duration is sufficient to cause that. If the barbarian is unconscious and bleeding out when that happens, that's the risk the barbarian took.
Shaggy_Shaggs
03-04-08, 11:43 AM Rage ending when its duration is up is just the way it goes, sometimes. If the barbarian coincidentally happens to be bleeding out at the time, sucks to be him but it's fine and fair. It's the folks that rule that rage ends immediately (regardless of duration) when the barbarian falls unconscious, that are houseruling wrong, stupid and abusive.* I should've been more specific in what I said.

*If anyone should feel insulted after reading that, they deserve it. Have a :tissue:
Seeker95
03-04-08, 12:29 PM It's the folks that rule that rage ends immediately (regardless of duration) when the barbarian falls unconscious, that are houseruling wrong, stupid and abusive.Ahh... I was unaware of such a houserule being prevalent. I understand your reply much more clearly now. And I agree with you.
SillyRobot
03-04-08, 12:55 PM Based on the other replies in the thread, I think we are all in agreement, but I just wanted to clarify.

What do you mean "cause it to fail" and "forcing it to fail"?

When rage ends, it ends. Simple duration is sufficient to cause that. If the barbarian is unconscious and bleeding out when that happens, that's the risk the barbarian took.

Several things can cause a Rage to fail: expiry of its timer is the usual case. Calm Emotions can negate the rage early and I'm sure there are other spells and abilities in the game that have similar effect.

My reference to "forcing" the rage to fail was in reference to the house rule that consciousness was required to remain raging. I've seen that houserule before.
Seeker95
03-04-08, 01:45 PM My reference to "forcing" the rage to fail was in reference to the house rule that consciousness was required to remain raging.The problem with referencing a houserule is that it is not likely to be widely known outside that house. :D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Seamonster 03-04-08, 05:59 AM	I have a 2nd level wizard PC in one of the games I run that got hit by poison that causes Con damage. He was damaged previously and took 2 damage out of his total of 7, leaving 5 out of 7 hit points. He fails his second save on the poison, and it deals 3 Con damage to him. That drops his 12 Con to 9 Con. So, according to the DMG (p. 290), he loses 4 hit points (1 per Hit Dice for each Con modifier lost). That would put him at 1 out of 7 hit points, but that doesn't seem right because it seems like he would also have a diminished TOTAL hit points, but I can't specify whether the DMG is talking about losing current hit points, or TOTAL Hit Points. This would leave him with 1 out of 3 hit points, which seems more accurate, but I don't want to screw him if it's not RAW. Please help! Are the hit points lost due to Con ability damage from the TOTAL pool, the current pool, or both?
Shaggy_Shaggs 03-04-08, 06:12 AM	He's 2 hp down from his max hp, and his max hp has dropped. If he has 2 hitdice and went from 12 Con to 9 Con with 5/7 hp previously, he now has 1/3 hp. This btw is why all sane folks don't houserule that a barbarian stops raging when unconscious and bleeding out. At/beyond level 5, if that happened his max hp would drop by at least 10 and take his current hp with it, and it'd be instantaneous death.
Seeker95 03-04-08, 08:35 AM	The PC is at 1 out of 3 until his Con is restored.if that happened his max hp would drop by at least 10 and take his current hp with it, and it'd be instantaneous death.That's the risk a barbarian takes by raging. Your house rule mollycoddles the barbarian, turning his rage into a freebie rather than a calculated risk.
SillyRobot 03-04-08, 09:26 AM	The PC is at 1 out of 3 until his Con is restored.That's the risk a barbarian takes by raging. Your house rule mollycoddles the barbarian, turning his rage into a freebie rather than a calculated risk. The Barbarian's rage has several events listed in the rules which cause it to fail. Falling unconscious is not one of the listed events. It looks to me like forcing it to fail when the Barbarian falls unconscious is a house rule.
Seeker95 03-04-08, 11:18 AM	The Barbarian's rage has several events listed in the rules which cause it to fail. Falling unconscious is not one of the listed events. It looks to me like forcing it to fail when the Barbarian falls unconscious is a house rule.What do you mean "cause it to fail" and "forcing it to fail"? When rage ends, it ends. Simple duration is sufficient to cause that. If the barbarian is unconscious and bleeding out when that happens, that's the risk the barbarian took.
Shaggy_Shaggs 03-04-08, 11:43 AM	Rage ending when its duration is up is just the way it goes, sometimes. If the barbarian coincidentally happens to be bleeding out at the time, sucks to be him but it's fine and fair. It's the folks that rule that rage ends immediately (regardless of duration) when the barbarian falls unconscious, that are houseruling wrong, stupid and abusive.* I should've been more specific in what I said. *If anyone should feel insulted after reading that, they deserve it. Have a :tissue:
Seeker95 03-04-08, 12:29 PM	It's the folks that rule that rage ends immediately (regardless of duration) when the barbarian falls unconscious, that are houseruling wrong, stupid and abusive.Ahh... I was unaware of such a houserule being prevalent. I understand your reply much more clearly now. And I agree with you.
SillyRobot 03-04-08, 12:55 PM	Based on the other replies in the thread, I think we are all in agreement, but I just wanted to clarify. What do you mean "cause it to fail" and "forcing it to fail"? When rage ends, it ends. Simple duration is sufficient to cause that. If the barbarian is unconscious and bleeding out when that happens, that's the risk the barbarian took. Several things can cause a Rage to fail: expiry of its timer is the usual case. Calm Emotions can negate the rage early and I'm sure there are other spells and abilities in the game that have similar effect. My reference to "forcing" the rage to fail was in reference to the house rule that consciousness was required to remain raging. I've seen that houserule before.
Seeker95 03-04-08, 01:45 PM	My reference to "forcing" the rage to fail was in reference to the house rule that consciousness was required to remain raging.The problem with referencing a houserule is that it is not likely to be widely known outside that house. :D