Con Drain and Resurrection [Archive] - Wizards Community

Con Drain and Resurrection [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
AaronDireBear
01-23-08, 07:26 PM I would like to pose a question:
Can someone who dies by means of con drain be brought back with Resurrection, or is he pretty much SOL and stuck with using True Res?

Would True Res even be able to do so?

I am trying to create a murder mystery and I would like the death of the victim to be irreversible. Already solved raise dead by having her heart removed. Was wondering if resurrection can be stopped by con drain (con DAMAGED to zero is healed to a con of 1, so i wasnt sure if this applied to drain or if drain was special).

There are at least 4 NPC clerics in my city above 13th level and one above 17th.
Witch
01-23-08, 09:22 PM Have the soul imprisoned by trap the soul. Resurrection impossible.
Seeker95
01-23-08, 10:36 PM Just rule that the deceased simply does not want to come back.
AaronDireBear
01-24-08, 03:10 AM explain why a young, beautiful, popular, witty, talented, outgoing, wealthy half elven bard would not want to come back...
Naderion
01-24-08, 03:14 AM When the players are that powerfull, their opponents will be too and trapping the soul shouldn't really be a problem for them and they should be smart enough to do it as well.
AaronDireBear
01-24-08, 03:27 AM Again, you assume that a murderer who wishes to keep a noble's lurid affair (and business deals) with a Drow High priestess a secret.MUST be high level and must be a wizard...Not everything is about a big bad evil guy trying to take down the PCs...some of it is just political intrigue without much actual combat.

She was a 5ht level bard who knew too much. Her death so saddened her fans that they all pitched in to hire adventurers to investigate.
zeratulcraft
01-24-08, 03:41 AM explain why a young, beautiful, popular, witty, talented, outgoing, wealthy half elven bard would not want to come back...

Because he's gone to his peoples heaven and can do whatever he wants at all times. Why would he come back?
VengefulGazeofGod
01-24-08, 09:17 AM If you were to stand in the presence of your god, would you wish to return to the world of the mundane?
:cool:
AaronDireBear
01-26-08, 11:52 AM WOULD YOU PLEASE ANSWER MY GOD DAMN CON DRAIN QUESTION INSTEAD OF LAMBASTING MY PLOT????????

MY PLAYERS GET ****** OFF IF I JUST HANDWAVE STUFF LIKE THAT AND I FEEL GUILTY FOR RAILROADING!
(Tried ruling that an already dead person they found, a week dead, had already spent a week in Elysium and failed his save, and my brother looked at me **** eyed)

**** SAKES I JUST WANT A RULES LEGAL NONMAGICAL WAY TO KEEP SOMEONE DEAD!!!!

JUST ANSWER My QUESTION, can someone whose Con has been reduced to 0 by con DRAIN, NOT DAMAGE, be brought back with normal resurrection?

Because if thats they can't, all I have to worry about is true resurrection, which financial reasons and avaiulability of diamonds makes hard to come by. I ALREADY KNOW that CON damaged characters can even be brought back through raise dead (with a con of 1 until healed), but since Con DRAIN is more permanent I wanted tyo know if it defeated the 2 lesser revival spells.
CryoSilver
01-26-08, 12:02 PM Once someone's dead, they're dead, and their stats become irrelevant, so I'd think. Your best bet is Trap the Soul or something similar. Is there some way of involving a barghest that can eat the soul of the deceased?

Epic Level Handbook has a poison that prevents resurrection.

Another option you have is to turn the victim into an undead creature. Though resurrection can restore someone who has been turned into an undead and destroyed, there's nothing about returning a presently extant undead creature to life.

And, dude, chill out.
AaronDireBear
01-26-08, 12:08 PM And a corrupt aristocrat is supposed to find a Barghest WHERE now?
I have ONE epic level NPC in my capitol city and he's a commoner.
I cant just use an epic solution...for god sakes wheres a city slicker supposed to get the venom of an epic level creature? Also what page is this poison you claim exists?
CryoSilver
01-26-08, 12:12 PM Barghests are 6 HD outsiders, so if the aristocrat can find an unscrupulous level 7 cleric to cast Lesser Planar Ally (a 4th level spell), he can find a barghest.
Sarella Starshine
01-26-08, 06:08 PM Aaron:

It is NOT railroading to have someone decide to NOT come back to life. It explicitly states in the spell description, that the person coming back HAS to be WILLING. Your players must be really great throwing around guilt trips if they make you feel that following a perfectly legit reason (the bard does not want to come back) is being mean, selfish, and railroady.

(It also further states that the person getting rezed knows some basic information about the person casting the spell, like alignment and I *think* the god/godess (if any) they worship, so you can have someone who would accept a rez from someone of the same alignment or the same god NOT accept it from someone of a differing alingment or god.)

So, having the bard, even though she was cut down in the prime of her life, NOT come back because her afterlife is that much better is a perfectly legit tool. (And its one that constantly gets overlooked because somehow almost everyone forgets the fact that the person getting rezed CAN CHOOSE.)

In any aspect, having the bard being brought back to life is a very very expensive way of getting information from the bard. I mean, there are such spells as speak with dead. (which is easier and cheeper, and also easier and cheeper to thwart (just remove jaw/tongue or cut off head).)
Malek2991
01-27-08, 09:11 AM My oppinion is that Ressurection would bring the bard's CON back up to 1, However if the bard is level 1, the spell would do 2 pts of CON drain instead of the level loss, with the provision that if the reduction would bring the CON down to 0 the character can't be ressurected. So the spell would fail if the bard is level 1.
Kamin_Majere
01-27-08, 11:15 AM To actually answer your question, no the rules don't say one way or the other. It doesn't mention drain so you as the DM are free to interpret it any way you want to. Personally I think its 6 of one and 1/2 dozen of another. Once your stat has reached 0 I don't think the spell cares how it got there.

The easiest way to get around Raise Dead is to use a death effect. Assassins are cheap (relatively speaking) and with their death attack/cutting out of the tongue would limit the PC's choices to either Res or True Res.

Completely off topic of the question... your players are twits. If they are picky enough that you have to justify drain vs damage to a stat to prevent raise dead then they need a rule book to the head. I would have already told the lot to sod off if they put the rules that far ahead of the story.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
AaronDireBear 01-23-08, 07:26 PM	I would like to pose a question: Can someone who dies by means of con drain be brought back with Resurrection, or is he pretty much SOL and stuck with using True Res? Would True Res even be able to do so? I am trying to create a murder mystery and I would like the death of the victim to be irreversible. Already solved raise dead by having her heart removed. Was wondering if resurrection can be stopped by con drain (con DAMAGED to zero is healed to a con of 1, so i wasnt sure if this applied to drain or if drain was special). There are at least 4 NPC clerics in my city above 13th level and one above 17th.
Witch 01-23-08, 09:22 PM	Have the soul imprisoned by trap the soul. Resurrection impossible.
Seeker95 01-23-08, 10:36 PM	Just rule that the deceased simply does not want to come back.
AaronDireBear 01-24-08, 03:10 AM	explain why a young, beautiful, popular, witty, talented, outgoing, wealthy half elven bard would not want to come back...
Naderion 01-24-08, 03:14 AM	When the players are that powerfull, their opponents will be too and trapping the soul shouldn't really be a problem for them and they should be smart enough to do it as well.
AaronDireBear 01-24-08, 03:27 AM	Again, you assume that a murderer who wishes to keep a noble's lurid affair (and business deals) with a Drow High priestess a secret.MUST be high level and must be a wizard...Not everything is about a big bad evil guy trying to take down the PCs...some of it is just political intrigue without much actual combat. She was a 5ht level bard who knew too much. Her death so saddened her fans that they all pitched in to hire adventurers to investigate.
zeratulcraft 01-24-08, 03:41 AM	explain why a young, beautiful, popular, witty, talented, outgoing, wealthy half elven bard would not want to come back... Because he's gone to his peoples heaven and can do whatever he wants at all times. Why would he come back?
VengefulGazeofGod 01-24-08, 09:17 AM	If you were to stand in the presence of your god, would you wish to return to the world of the mundane? :cool:
AaronDireBear 01-26-08, 11:52 AM	WOULD YOU PLEASE ANSWER MY GOD DAMN CON DRAIN QUESTION INSTEAD OF LAMBASTING MY PLOT???????? MY PLAYERS GET **** OFF IF I JUST HANDWAVE STUFF LIKE THAT AND I FEEL GUILTY FOR RAILROADING! (Tried ruling that an already dead person they found, a week dead, had already spent a week in Elysium and failed his save, and my brother looked at me eyed) ** SAKES I JUST WANT A RULES LEGAL NONMAGICAL WAY TO KEEP SOMEONE DEAD!!!! JUST ANSWER My QUESTION, can someone whose Con has been reduced to 0 by con DRAIN, NOT DAMAGE, be brought back with normal resurrection? Because if thats they can't, all I have to worry about is true resurrection, which financial reasons and avaiulability of diamonds makes hard to come by. I ALREADY KNOW that CON damaged characters can even be brought back through raise dead (with a con of 1 until healed), but since Con DRAIN is more permanent I wanted tyo know if it defeated the 2 lesser revival spells.
CryoSilver 01-26-08, 12:02 PM	Once someone's dead, they're dead, and their stats become irrelevant, so I'd think. Your best bet is Trap the Soul or something similar. Is there some way of involving a barghest that can eat the soul of the deceased? Epic Level Handbook has a poison that prevents resurrection. Another option you have is to turn the victim into an undead creature. Though resurrection can restore someone who has been turned into an undead and destroyed, there's nothing about returning a presently extant undead creature to life. And, dude, chill out.
AaronDireBear 01-26-08, 12:08 PM	And a corrupt aristocrat is supposed to find a Barghest WHERE now? I have ONE epic level NPC in my capitol city and he's a commoner. I cant just use an epic solution...for god sakes wheres a city slicker supposed to get the venom of an epic level creature? Also what page is this poison you claim exists?
CryoSilver 01-26-08, 12:12 PM	Barghests are 6 HD outsiders, so if the aristocrat can find an unscrupulous level 7 cleric to cast Lesser Planar Ally (a 4th level spell), he can find a barghest.
Sarella Starshine 01-26-08, 06:08 PM	Aaron: It is NOT railroading to have someone decide to NOT come back to life. It explicitly states in the spell description, that the person coming back HAS to be WILLING. Your players must be really great throwing around guilt trips if they make you feel that following a perfectly legit reason (the bard does not want to come back) is being mean, selfish, and railroady. (It also further states that the person getting rezed knows some basic information about the person casting the spell, like alignment and I think the god/godess (if any) they worship, so you can have someone who would accept a rez from someone of the same alignment or the same god NOT accept it from someone of a differing alingment or god.) So, having the bard, even though she was cut down in the prime of her life, NOT come back because her afterlife is that much better is a perfectly legit tool. (And its one that constantly gets overlooked because somehow almost everyone forgets the fact that the person getting rezed CAN CHOOSE.) In any aspect, having the bard being brought back to life is a very very expensive way of getting information from the bard. I mean, there are such spells as speak with dead. (which is easier and cheeper, and also easier and cheeper to thwart (just remove jaw/tongue or cut off head).)
Malek2991 01-27-08, 09:11 AM	My oppinion is that Ressurection would bring the bard's CON back up to 1, However if the bard is level 1, the spell would do 2 pts of CON drain instead of the level loss, with the provision that if the reduction would bring the CON down to 0 the character can't be ressurected. So the spell would fail if the bard is level 1.
Kamin_Majere 01-27-08, 11:15 AM	To actually answer your question, no the rules don't say one way or the other. It doesn't mention drain so you as the DM are free to interpret it any way you want to. Personally I think its 6 of one and 1/2 dozen of another. Once your stat has reached 0 I don't think the spell cares how it got there. The easiest way to get around Raise Dead is to use a death effect. Assassins are cheap (relatively speaking) and with their death attack/cutting out of the tongue would limit the PC's choices to either Res or True Res. Completely off topic of the question... your players are twits. If they are picky enough that you have to justify drain vs damage to a stat to prevent raise dead then they need a rule book to the head. I would have already told the lot to sod off if they put the rules that far ahead of the story.