Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gorgo 04-27-04, 04:15 AM	I'm starting to play a barbarian/Champion of Gwynharwyf ,the Champion of Gwynharwyf has spells which is all very nice but it doesn't have the concentration skill as a class skill to help in casting defensively but the problem is why does a raging barbarian need to concentrate during his spell casting it somehow negates the rules that during a rage a barbarian can't concentrate...... so what do you suggest taking the concentration skill as cross class and casting defensively or is it a problem with the text or it doesn't need the skill and can cast automaticly during combat ?
Lysen_Gaiden 04-27-04, 11:45 AM	I think the lackof Concentration as a class skill was probably not an oversight. One you fly into rage, your probably not thinking about spells. The Champion looks like they do the spells before they enter into combat, and then do thier casting after words, when they need healing. They are barbarian like class :)
Ulden Throatbane 04-27-04, 12:00 PM	Bear in mind that Concentration is a con-based skill, and while you are raging, its likely to be through the roof. You should be just fine casting defensively even if you have no ranks in Concentration.
Lysen_Gaiden 04-27-04, 02:09 PM	Except the fact while raging, you can not do anything that requires the Concentration skill and other things like that.
Gorgo 04-27-04, 02:38 PM	Originally posted by Lysen_Gaiden I think the lackof Concentration as a class skill was probably not an oversight. One you fly into rage, your probably not thinking about spells. The Champion looks like they do the spells before they enter into combat, and then do thier casting after words, when they need healing. They are barbarian like class :) the problem occurs when you are far from your cleric and the next strike will probably kill you and your only chance is to try to heal yourself or this situation happens to a friend which you will give your life to as an exalted barbarian and if you do this you'll die or your friend will die cause someone spoiled your spell i'm level 16 overall so i can put 19 (9.5 cross class)skill points in concentration and it could be enough but it still to risky.... the class can cast spell even in rage so it can do it even in combat which makes it susceptible to attacks of opertunity and i think the writers didn't mean for this to happen
Lysen_Gaiden 04-27-04, 02:58 PM	yah, they can, and by that time, you can have put 4 total ranks in the class, that gets you, if all you have is the +4 from raging, a +2 con, a total +6 concentration. thats a 50/50 chance of making the spell get off defensivly. of a 1st level spell, and 2 more ranks every level can get you a decent concentration for partial spell caster. A warrior class should take concentration for the same reason, you need to use concentration to take potions. I honestly think the lack of concentration isnt a problem.
Gorgo 04-28-04, 04:38 AM	the main problem is the diversity of the traits the class needs my dex is 8 but i could live with a slow barbarian..... and the lack of inteligence (10) for bonus skill points (i'm playing a half gaint +2 in con,str , -2 in dex) so almost half my skill point will go towards concentration and i want to diversify..... not just concentration.....
TheArchimage 04-28-04, 10:26 AM	The Champion MAY have a slightly more controlled rage, but it is still a rage. And the Player's Handbook specifically states that you can't use the Concentration skill while using the rage ability. Casting defensively while in a rage? That's a hoot. It's completely counter to the idea of a rage, which is to disregard your own safety in order to really bash some heads. Frankly it's enough of a bonus to be able to cast anything while in a rage, so count your blessings. To answer Gorgo's hypothetical question: This is why you stay near the cleric, or at least the paladin. I can paint you a picture of what happens if a wizard gets surrounded by melee types, and the picture is equally bleak. Part of tactics is knowing your role in battle. The Champion is NOT an emergency healer, and it was never intended to be. At best, their spells are for them to cast stuff like bull's strength or holy sword and increase their combat prowess just a bit further. The long-winded answer to your question; the champion or the friend will probably die, but at that level it would be far more effective to go down fighting, possibly taking the threat down before it has a chance to finish you/the friend off than to depend on the 3d8+10 that cure serious wounds (the champion's most powerful healing spell) heals to save you anyway. The class would be far too powerful if it was able to cast freely while raging. Why would anyone bother playing a paladin if that was the case?
Gorgo 04-30-04, 03:50 PM	the difference between a paladin and a campion of gwynharwif is greater then it seems although the paladin has more restrictions it has the advantage of the lay on hands , the animal companion , immunities to diseases and much more spell and isn't resricted to the 10 level and is a class within it self while the champion is a prestige class , so it is hard to make comparisons between the two but i finally agree that it isn't logical but still in my opinion a class shouldn't get abilities without the ability to use them although after a battle it can save life it needs more clarifications about it