Concerning singing... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Concerning singing... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
PortapottyPunk
06-20-06, 04:18 AM Just out of curiosity, do bards really have to sing their songs, or do they just say "I sing my song of XXX." and totoally take out roleplaying the song?

Does the same go for perform: sing?

Or does it just depend on the DM?

What do you usually do?
Bulletproof_Condom
06-20-06, 04:30 AM Just out of curiosity, do bards really have to sing their songs, or do they just say "I sing my song of XXX." and totoally take out roleplaying the song?
...no. Of course not, most people can't sing anyway. Doesn't mean that only people who can sing and write songs are allowed to play bards.

I mean you don't have to act out combat encounters, why should a Perform check be any different?
Witch
06-20-06, 04:31 AM Let's adapt, shall we.

If the fighter wants to hit the monster, does he really take out a sword, and stick it in the DM's belly, and rips him apart?
Lord Herman
06-20-06, 04:49 AM I've had only one bard in my campaign thus far, and I haven't required the player to sing at the table. But one session, he had written a short poem to recite for his bardic music ability. It's a pity he did it only once (he would often completely forget about his bardic music ability, treating his bard as a multiclass sorcerer/fighter).

I think bards are a bit like wizards in this respect: you can play a wizard without ever speaking a single verbal component, but it's a lot more fun for the player, and for the rest of the group, if you have mysterious magic words to yell when casting your fireball.
Johnny_Cancer
06-20-06, 04:49 AM When I DM I don't require the player of a bard character to actually sing or perform, but if they were capable of rendering a good performance I would certainly give them a circumstance bonus to their roll.
PortapottyPunk
06-20-06, 05:45 AM Let's adapt, shall we.

If the fighter wants to hit the monster, does he really take out a sword, and stick it in the DM's belly, and rips him apart?

Verbal things, not physical. Anyways, I was just wondering if people considered it roleplaying to actually sing the songs.
Witch
06-20-06, 06:37 AM I never knew verbal things weren't physical. Where does your voice come from, if not from your body? How is it interpreted by the listener, if not by the brain, which is part of the body?

Anyway, roleplaying has limits.
Are you bluffing someone? Sure, bluff away. If the enemy wouldn't believe you straight away, you'd need to make a roll.

But singing - no.
Just like I don't make a barbarian player roar when he gets into a rage.
Chargarodon
06-20-06, 07:04 AM I think my DM and my party would kill me when I would start singing... ;)
gorfnad the shiznit
06-20-06, 07:46 AM I had the reverse of this thought experiment. I had a DM at college who liked to sing during the games. He was a really good singer too!
Sunrider
06-20-06, 08:43 AM In my games, characters (and NPCs) live or die, succeed or fail, by their wits, their ability scores, their feats, their skills and the roll of the dice. They may sing, or they may not but, ultimately, it comes down to their Charisma modifier, their ranks in Perform, the d20 dice roll (assuming they're not Taking 10) and the task they're trying to achieve.

I use Circumstance modifiers liberally - dressed in the right clothes/perfume to disguise yourself as a noble? That's a +5 to your Disguise check, easily (depends how good the costume is - missing parts, e.g. signet ring, won't help your cause). Dressed in a glowing skull helmet and a smelly bear-hide, and haven't washed for days, and passing yourself off as a noble? -6 at least. Convincing someone that you're just a local farm-girl when you're wearing field plate and carrying a greatsword? Fat chance of that happening... I apply such modifiers, however, to what the character does in-game, not what the player does - you won't get a Circumstance bonus to Disguise as a noble if you come to the gaming table dressed as one...

If you want to hit something with a sword, describe your actions, then roll the dice. If you want to pick a lock, describe what you're trying to do, then roll the dice. If you're trying to use the Diplomacy or Bluff skills, describe what you're trying to do or what message you're trying to convey, then roll the dice.

Just like fighter-players don't have to fight, mage-players don't have to cast spells and rogue-players don't have to pick locks, bard-players don't have to sing or give long speeches for diplomacy.

And no-one - I mean no-one is going to bring bat guano into my apartment!!! That's just asking for permanent death by DM fiat...
CzarGarrett
06-20-06, 09:28 AM I played an interesting Bard for a short campaign once, in which I had both Oratory and Percussion maxed out.

I would take basic beats from various songs, re-write some of the lyrics and actually make attempt to sing each song while keeping a beat on the table. Although this was only done once per song.

It made for interesting sessions.
FloppyLlama
06-20-06, 02:00 PM Nah, requiring it just isn't cool. A lot of people aren't in a comfort zone at all when singing [alone], because quite frankly, most people aren't that good at it. If tehy want to give it a go, all the more power to them, but requiring it seems sort of silly.

What if their bard plays a lute? I mean, would you ask them to purchase one and play it when they fascinate that orc over there? What if their bard played the grand piano? 0.o

As awesome as it might be when the bard's player pulls out a horn and lets out a blast, requiring it is going a bit far.
docballen
06-20-06, 02:41 PM Yeah.

When I play a Bard I have my songs ready.

When I "Summon Monster" I sing Hungry Like The Wolf... when I summon a wolf.

And then everybody at the table throws stuff at me. :D
rogue_lettuce
06-21-06, 02:44 AM I think bards are a bit like wizards in this respect: you can play a wizard without ever speaking a single verbal component, but it's a lot more fun for the player, and for the rest of the group, if you have mysterious magic words to yell when casting your fireball.
Like...
HADOKEN!
Or did you mean something different? :cloud9:
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
06-21-06, 03:01 AM Let's adapt, shall we.

If the fighter wants to hit the monster, does he really take out a sword, and stick it in the DM's belly, and rips him apart?
So that's why the police showed up.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
PortapottyPunk 06-20-06, 04:18 AM	Just out of curiosity, do bards really have to sing their songs, or do they just say "I sing my song of XXX." and totoally take out roleplaying the song? Does the same go for perform: sing? Or does it just depend on the DM? What do you usually do?
Bulletproof_Condom 06-20-06, 04:30 AM	Just out of curiosity, do bards really have to sing their songs, or do they just say "I sing my song of XXX." and totoally take out roleplaying the song? ...no. Of course not, most people can't sing anyway. Doesn't mean that only people who can sing and write songs are allowed to play bards. I mean you don't have to act out combat encounters, why should a Perform check be any different?
Witch 06-20-06, 04:31 AM	Let's adapt, shall we. If the fighter wants to hit the monster, does he really take out a sword, and stick it in the DM's belly, and rips him apart?
Lord Herman 06-20-06, 04:49 AM	I've had only one bard in my campaign thus far, and I haven't required the player to sing at the table. But one session, he had written a short poem to recite for his bardic music ability. It's a pity he did it only once (he would often completely forget about his bardic music ability, treating his bard as a multiclass sorcerer/fighter). I think bards are a bit like wizards in this respect: you can play a wizard without ever speaking a single verbal component, but it's a lot more fun for the player, and for the rest of the group, if you have mysterious magic words to yell when casting your fireball.
Johnny_Cancer 06-20-06, 04:49 AM	When I DM I don't require the player of a bard character to actually sing or perform, but if they were capable of rendering a good performance I would certainly give them a circumstance bonus to their roll.
PortapottyPunk 06-20-06, 05:45 AM	Let's adapt, shall we. If the fighter wants to hit the monster, does he really take out a sword, and stick it in the DM's belly, and rips him apart? Verbal things, not physical. Anyways, I was just wondering if people considered it roleplaying to actually sing the songs.
Witch 06-20-06, 06:37 AM	I never knew verbal things weren't physical. Where does your voice come from, if not from your body? How is it interpreted by the listener, if not by the brain, which is part of the body? Anyway, roleplaying has limits. Are you bluffing someone? Sure, bluff away. If the enemy wouldn't believe you straight away, you'd need to make a roll. But singing - no. Just like I don't make a barbarian player roar when he gets into a rage.
Chargarodon 06-20-06, 07:04 AM	I think my DM and my party would kill me when I would start singing... ;)
gorfnad the shiznit 06-20-06, 07:46 AM	I had the reverse of this thought experiment. I had a DM at college who liked to sing during the games. He was a really good singer too!
Sunrider 06-20-06, 08:43 AM	In my games, characters (and NPCs) live or die, succeed or fail, by their wits, their ability scores, their feats, their skills and the roll of the dice. They may sing, or they may not but, ultimately, it comes down to their Charisma modifier, their ranks in Perform, the d20 dice roll (assuming they're not Taking 10) and the task they're trying to achieve. I use Circumstance modifiers liberally - dressed in the right clothes/perfume to disguise yourself as a noble? That's a +5 to your Disguise check, easily (depends how good the costume is - missing parts, e.g. signet ring, won't help your cause). Dressed in a glowing skull helmet and a smelly bear-hide, and haven't washed for days, and passing yourself off as a noble? -6 at least. Convincing someone that you're just a local farm-girl when you're wearing field plate and carrying a greatsword? Fat chance of that happening... I apply such modifiers, however, to what the character does in-game, not what the player does - you won't get a Circumstance bonus to Disguise as a noble if you come to the gaming table dressed as one... If you want to hit something with a sword, describe your actions, then roll the dice. If you want to pick a lock, describe what you're trying to do, then roll the dice. If you're trying to use the Diplomacy or Bluff skills, describe what you're trying to do or what message you're trying to convey, then roll the dice. Just like fighter-players don't have to fight, mage-players don't have to cast spells and rogue-players don't have to pick locks, bard-players don't have to sing or give long speeches for diplomacy. And no-one - I mean no-one is going to bring bat guano into my apartment!!! That's just asking for permanent death by DM fiat...
CzarGarrett 06-20-06, 09:28 AM	I played an interesting Bard for a short campaign once, in which I had both Oratory and Percussion maxed out. I would take basic beats from various songs, re-write some of the lyrics and actually make attempt to sing each song while keeping a beat on the table. Although this was only done once per song. It made for interesting sessions.
FloppyLlama 06-20-06, 02:00 PM	Nah, requiring it just isn't cool. A lot of people aren't in a comfort zone at all when singing [alone], because quite frankly, most people aren't that good at it. If tehy want to give it a go, all the more power to them, but requiring it seems sort of silly. What if their bard plays a lute? I mean, would you ask them to purchase one and play it when they fascinate that orc over there? What if their bard played the grand piano? 0.o As awesome as it might be when the bard's player pulls out a horn and lets out a blast, requiring it is going a bit far.
docballen 06-20-06, 02:41 PM	Yeah. When I play a Bard I have my songs ready. When I "Summon Monster" I sing Hungry Like The Wolf... when I summon a wolf. And then everybody at the table throws stuff at me. :D
rogue_lettuce 06-21-06, 02:44 AM	I think bards are a bit like wizards in this respect: you can play a wizard without ever speaking a single verbal component, but it's a lot more fun for the player, and for the rest of the group, if you have mysterious magic words to yell when casting your fireball. Like... HADOKEN! Or did you mean something different? :cloud9:
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 06-21-06, 03:01 AM	Let's adapt, shall we. If the fighter wants to hit the monster, does he really take out a sword, and stick it in the DM's belly, and rips him apart? So that's why the police showed up.