confusion about making a doppelganger character.(non-monsterous class) [Archive] - Wizards Community

confusion about making a doppelganger character.(non-monsterous class) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Jigglebuns_the_swift
03-28-08, 11:15 PM I have some questions about the doppelganger race. it says in the book called "races of destiny" that they start out with 4 levels of monsterous humanoid. but i don't want that to be his(its actually) class. I wanted to make him into a soulknife. but i don't know what to do about the Hit dice conflictions between the racial bonus and the class bonus.[do i use the 4d8 from races of destiny, or do i use the soulknife's 1d10] for HD. and does he get all the listed racial bonuses when i start, or do i have to follow the table and add the bonuses at each individual level( even though it said that was only for the actual monsterous humanoid class). I just want to know what exactly i need to do in terms of deciding whether i can use the doppelgangers racial with the soulknife class, or if i have to start off using the monsterous humanoid class.
MystErikEry
03-29-08, 04:58 AM You must take the Monstrous Humanoid levels (they're there to balance out some of the benefits of being a Doppelganger, without actually giving you completely "useless" levels, the way the "LA" mechanic works). However, you can take Soulknife as you progress.

Just be wary of your ECL (which is your Hit Dice + LA), since I'm pretty sure that Doppelgangers have both hit dice and a Level Adjustment (LA)... This means your Effective Character Level (ECL) will be higher than normal.

If your LA was +1 and you had 3 levels of Monstrous Humanoid, you would be starting at ECL 4 --- which means you'd be on par with a Level 4 Human Fighter! That's before you even take any class levels. When you take Soulknife 1, you'd be at ECL 5 in this case.
Just check on Doppelganger's racial hit dice (4d8 being four Hit Dice worth) and LA modifier.

Do note that Monstrous Humanoid has a d8 Hit Die (as opposed to the Soulknife having d10) but you start with four -levels- of it, or four racial hit dice.
Most races have no racial hit dice (such as humans, elves, and dwarves - generally they start at ECL 1 with a class level and get class hit dice instead).

I think perhaps you should read the rules for monstrous player characters in the DMG, before you attempt to make such a rules-complex character :D
Naderion
03-29-08, 09:13 AM The most simple way would be to add 1 level of soulknife to the doppelganger of the DMG and play it as a 9th level character with 36.000 XP. At 45.000 XP you're level 10 and can add a second level of soulknife.
But that's not neccessarily the best way.
ieattrollsforbreakfast
03-29-08, 12:49 PM My advice: play a changeling.

Changelings are designed specifically to accomdate players that want to try out doppelgangers, and are, mechanically, the much better choice. That +4 LA from the doppelganger really hurts, and the monstrous humanoid HD aren't as good as levels in a class.
You'd be giving up the ability to detect thoughts and shape functioning limbs and clothing for an extra 8 levels of soulknife.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jigglebuns_the_swift 03-28-08, 11:15 PM	I have some questions about the doppelganger race. it says in the book called "races of destiny" that they start out with 4 levels of monsterous humanoid. but i don't want that to be his(its actually) class. I wanted to make him into a soulknife. but i don't know what to do about the Hit dice conflictions between the racial bonus and the class bonus.[do i use the 4d8 from races of destiny, or do i use the soulknife's 1d10] for HD. and does he get all the listed racial bonuses when i start, or do i have to follow the table and add the bonuses at each individual level( even though it said that was only for the actual monsterous humanoid class). I just want to know what exactly i need to do in terms of deciding whether i can use the doppelgangers racial with the soulknife class, or if i have to start off using the monsterous humanoid class.
MystErikEry 03-29-08, 04:58 AM	You must take the Monstrous Humanoid levels (they're there to balance out some of the benefits of being a Doppelganger, without actually giving you completely "useless" levels, the way the "LA" mechanic works). However, you can take Soulknife as you progress. Just be wary of your ECL (which is your Hit Dice + LA), since I'm pretty sure that Doppelgangers have both hit dice and a Level Adjustment (LA)... This means your Effective Character Level (ECL) will be higher than normal. If your LA was +1 and you had 3 levels of Monstrous Humanoid, you would be starting at ECL 4 --- which means you'd be on par with a Level 4 Human Fighter! That's before you even take any class levels. When you take Soulknife 1, you'd be at ECL 5 in this case. Just check on Doppelganger's racial hit dice (4d8 being four Hit Dice worth) and LA modifier. Do note that Monstrous Humanoid has a d8 Hit Die (as opposed to the Soulknife having d10) but you start with four -levels- of it, or four racial hit dice. Most races have no racial hit dice (such as humans, elves, and dwarves - generally they start at ECL 1 with a class level and get class hit dice instead). I think perhaps you should read the rules for monstrous player characters in the DMG, before you attempt to make such a rules-complex character :D
Naderion 03-29-08, 09:13 AM	The most simple way would be to add 1 level of soulknife to the doppelganger of the DMG and play it as a 9th level character with 36.000 XP. At 45.000 XP you're level 10 and can add a second level of soulknife. But that's not neccessarily the best way.
ieattrollsforbreakfast 03-29-08, 12:49 PM	My advice: play a changeling. Changelings are designed specifically to accomdate players that want to try out doppelgangers, and are, mechanically, the much better choice. That +4 LA from the doppelganger really hurts, and the monstrous humanoid HD aren't as good as levels in a class. You'd be giving up the ability to detect thoughts and shape functioning limbs and clothing for an extra 8 levels of soulknife.