Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Spikes01k 11-05-06, 10:57 AM	Hello, I was wondering how I would get a hold of the proper people to ask for a re-write of a specific class, such as the Hex Blade. The Hex Blade is a great class concept but has been given little in the long run. Their primary ability of Hex Blade Cures does nothing to things with high will saves, especally in the long run. Their bonus feat selection is horrible, it needs to be expanded to include maybe some Meta Magic feats such as Still Spell and Arcane Strike. Also giving them the ability to cast, eventually, with no Arcane Spell Chance Failure while wearing Medium Armor would be something to gain via class abilities. One sugestion I would have is give them Battle Caster as a possible chosen feat for the Hex Blade feat, as well as give them an Improved Battle caster feat added to the list, which lets them wear heavy armor with out arcane spell chance failure. These small changes in my opinion would work more to balancing out the class, and making it more usful in time to come. The class does have its nitch as a core dark night class which has been a favorit class of many. The massive spell saves they gain is a unique one and a very usfull one. However you give them a full base attack bonus + D10 hit dice, but with out the armor, or an incredibly high dex, they make sub-par front liners. My version of the Un-official Errata suggestions ____________________ Hexblade Fix: * Boost to Fortitude saves of +1 at level 2 and every 6 levels there after (level 8, 14, and 20) * A hexblade may use their curse a number of times each day equal to 1 + Cha modifier, with a maximum of 2 additional uses a level 1. The additional uses per day from Cha modifier increases by +1/day at level 2 and every 3 levels there after. * Curse ability usable as a swift action * Proficiency with all armor and shields, except tower shields. * Ability to cast in light or medium armor and while carrying a light shield or buckler. This increases to heavy shields at level 9. * At 6th level, the hexblade can cast one hexblade spell per day as a swift action, as long as its original casting time is a standard action or faster. He gains an additional use of this power at levels 8, 11, 14, and 18. ____________________
Shaggy_Shaggs 11-05-06, 11:04 AM	I think you're barking up the wrong tree. For one thing, Dex generally comes from initial ability score and sometimes race, not class - if you want high Dex, just have high Dex. For another, WotC isn't in the habit of rebuilding classes from the ground up for one person's complaint (or even many people's complaints - witness the huge number of firestorms over the fighter's mechanical difficulties). I suggest you look for base class multiclassing options, and/or prestige classes, that achieve the style and capabilities you're looking for. They don't even have to include hexblade - classes are just building blocks, after all, almost anything can be that 'dark knight' you're after. As an example, try a swashbuckler/wizard/eldritch knight mix focused on necromancy debuffs, and personal buff spells - you'd have a nice Int synergy there, good reason to keep Dex up, could go around 'cursing' folks, and be a relatively tough customer in melee so long as you chose your buff spells carefully. Alternately, you might want to work with a DM to make some houserule changes to the hexblade. Be very careful if you go this route, it's easy to make a subtle mistake that hugely impacts the power of the class, but isn't obvious at first.
Otto the Bugbear 11-05-06, 11:20 AM	You can also look on the Classes and Prestige Classes board. There's a current thread where I've posted a rewrite that really takes the Hexblade to that level where it should be. Cheers Otto :)
Shaggy_Shaggs 11-05-06, 11:23 AM	Yes, there's also that. Otto may be the wrong kind of goblinoid (goblins FTW), but he generally knows what he's talking about.
Seeker95 11-05-06, 06:09 PM	As for the original question... Contact Customer Service. You won't get anywhere with your idea, but it is how you contact Wizards of the Coast. If you have a better idea for the class, contact Paizo (Dragon Magazine) and see if they will let you submit it for the Class Acts series.
Spikes01k 11-05-06, 10:42 PM	As for the original question... Contact Customer Service. You won't get anywhere with your idea, but it is how you contact Wizards of the Coast. If you have a better idea for the class, contact Paizo (Dragon Magazine) and see if they will let you submit it for the Class Acts series. Thank you! That was my main question, everything else was making my case and making some sugestions. If you could get me a link, I can't seem to find the customer servic area:duel: I'll look into the dragon mag. Thank you!
pukunui 11-06-06, 12:25 AM	Do you see all the tabs on the left side of your screen? The ones that start with "D&D Home". If you look a bit further down, there's the red die that opens up a dice roller. To the right of that, there's a button that says "HELP". Click on that. Hint: It's under the button that says "Tools" and above the button that says "Eberron".
Spikes01k 11-06-06, 07:43 PM	Do you see all the tabs on the left side of your screen? The ones that start with "D&D Home". If you look a bit further down, there's the red die that opens up a dice roller. To the right of that, there's a button that says "HELP". Click on that. Hint: It's under the button that says "Tools" and above the button that says "Eberron". Thank you! E-mail sent. hehe under defective products was the best choice I saw. hehe
pukunui 11-06-06, 07:46 PM	Thank you! E-mail sent. hehe under defective products was the best choice I saw. hehe Glad I could help. Don't expect much more than a "thank you for writing to us. We have no plans to revise the hexblade at this time, but we'll pass on your concerns to r&d for consideration."
Spikes01k 11-07-06, 09:29 AM	Glad I could help. Don't expect much more than a "thank you for writing to us. We have no plans to revise the hexblade at this time, but we'll pass on your concerns to r&d for consideration." yeah.... sigh. Maybe I should start a petition
WotC Mearls 11-07-06, 01:05 PM	Hello, I was wondering how I would get a hold of the proper people to ask for a re-write of a specific class, such as the Hex Blade. The Hex Blade is a great class concept but has been given little in the long run. The hexblade suffers a little because he came on the scene relatively early in 3.5's life. As R&D pushes the boundaries of the game, we learn that some things we thought were risky or potentially broken aren't. Other times, we learn things that look fine don't actually work in play. Armored mages fall into the first category. Them seem really powerful, but in the long run they aren't. Spells and magic items allow an unarmored mage to build great defenses. The spell mage armor is as good as medium armor, and its duration allows most mages to keep it active at all times. If you compare the hexblade to the duskblade from PH 2, you can see how the thinking has changed. If you want to boost the hexblade, I'd try the following changes: * Good Fortitude save * Curse ability usable 1 + the hexblade's Cha modifier per day * Curse ability usable as a swift action * Curse ability does not count as used if the target makes his saving throw * Ability to cast in light or medium armor and while carrying a light shield or buckler * At 6th level, the hexblade can cast one hexblade spell per day as a swift action, as long as its original casting time is a standard action or faster. He gains an additional use of this power at levels 8, 11, 14, and 18. The key to the hexblade is his curse ability, but it's a little un-fun to have it so limited in use. The hexblade also has trouble casting spells and using his melee attacks, so shifting spells to swift actions fits in with the idea of an armored mage. (These are by no means official. They're just off the top of my head changes I'd consider making.)
Grand Theft Otto 11-07-06, 01:38 PM	The hexblade suffers a little because he came on the scene relatively early in 3.5's life. As R&D pushes the boundaries of the game, we learn that some things we thought were risky or potentially broken aren't. Other times, we learn things that look fine don't actually work in play. Armored mages fall into the first category. Them seem really powerful, but in the long run they aren't. Spells and magic items allow an unarmored mage to build great defenses. The spell mage armor is as good as medium armor, and its duration allows most mages to keep it active at all times. If you compare the hexblade to the duskblade from PH 2, you can see how the thinking has changed. If you want to boost the hexblade, I'd try the following changes: * Good Fortitude save * Curse ability usable 1 + the hexblade's Cha modifier per day * Curse ability usable as a swift action * Curse ability does not count as used if the target makes his saving throw * Ability to cast in light or medium armor and while carrying a light shield or buckler * At 6th level, the hexblade can cast one hexblade spell per day as a swift action, as long as its original casting time is a standard action or faster. He gains an additional use of this power at levels 8, 11, 14, and 18. The key to the hexblade is his curse ability, but it's a little un-fun to have it so limited in use. The hexblade also has trouble casting spells and using his melee attacks, so shifting spells to swift actions fits in with the idea of an armored mage. (These are by no means official. They're just off the top of my head changes I'd consider making.) Wow! I'm amazed to see a designer response, and admission of the class' weakness. Good suggestions too.
Shaggy_Shaggs 11-07-06, 01:46 PM	I was relatively cruel to his watered-down rust monster (which I still think wasn't a good idea), but I have to admit the response and suggestions on improving the hexblade look pretty good to me. I'm not a hexblade player, but those alterations might change my mind.
pukunui 11-07-06, 01:54 PM	Wow, Mike totally proved me wrong. I've been on these boards since June and I've never seen a staff member come and respond to a post like this before. Way to go, Mike! For the record, though, his proposed changes don't make me any more interested in playing the hexblade, though. Not my cup of tea, really.
Seeker95 11-07-06, 02:18 PM	I've been on these boards since June and I've never seen a staff member come and respond to a post like this before.It used to happen all the time. And some members would rip them apart with all the present-tearing-glee of a three-year old on Christmas morning. For the past two years, it has been much more infrequent.
pukunui 11-07-06, 02:22 PM	It used to happen all the time. And some members would rip them apart with all the present-tearing-glee of a three-year old on Christmas morning. For the past two years, it has been much more infrequent. Oh ok. I think the first part of your post adequately explains the second part ...
Otto the Bugbear 11-07-06, 09:34 PM	The hexblade also could use a lot of help with the variety of its curses. They're pretty bland right now. Hex (su): Once per round, as a move action, a hexblade can unleash a hex upon her foes. The target must be within 30 ft. of to be affected by the hex and is entitled to a Will save (DC 10 + ˝ effective character level + Cha modifier) to negate the effect. When the hexblade first gains this ability, she must choose what hex she wants from the list of available hexes. Some hexes have minimum level requirements and all have various effects. When she activates this ability, she must choose one of her known hexes to afflict the target with. If a target makes his saving throw, he is immune to that hex for 24 hours, though he may still be affected by other hexes the hexblade knows. Any effect that removes curses or dispels magic works on Hexes as normal. Treat the Hexblade's class level as the caster level for opposed dispel checks. In addition, a hexblade may lift her own hex from any creature as a non-action. She may also choose to lift one hex, but leave others in place, in the event of a creature that is suffering from more than one hex. Hexes are not subject to spell failure from wearing armor. The gestures are simple enough that armor does not interfere with a hexblade’s ability to place a hex on her target. The hexblade gains 2 hexes at level 1, and gains one additional hex at level 4, 7, 10, 13, 16 and 19. Each hex has a minimum level associated with it. A character must have the given number of levels of hexblade in order to take that hex. She may choose from the following list of hexes: Minimum Level 1 Hexes: Hexblade's Curse: You curse a creature to failure. The target of this hex takes a -2 penalty on attack rolls, saves, ability checks, skill checks and damage rolls for 1 hour/hexblade level. The effects of this curse do not stack. Curse of Weakness: The target's strength score counts as 10 for the purpose of calculating carrying capacity and encumbrance. If the target’s strength score is 10 or lower, treat his strength as 3 for purposes of calculating carrying capacity and encumbrance. This hex lasts 1 hour per hexblade level. Truth: The target cannot tell a lie. He may choose to avoid saying the truth, but if he speaks it will be a truthful statement. This hex lasts 1 hour per class level. Minimum Level 4 Hexes: Curse of Ineptitude: The target takes a -8 penalty to all checks made using a single skill, which you choose when you activate this hex, for 1 hour per hexblade level. Pins and Needles: One of the target's limbs becomes numb and ceases to function. The limb is chosen randomly. If an arm is chosen, any items held by that hand are dropped. If a leg is chosen, the target's land speed is halved (round down). This lasts for 1 hour. Curse of Nonproficiency: You choose one, the target loses either all weapon proficiencies, or all armor proficiencies. The target suffers all appropriate penalties and may lose the ability to use any feats that require proficiency to function (such as Weapon Focus). This hex lases for 1 hour per class level. Social Gracelessness: The target takes a -6 penalty on Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate and Sense Motive, on Charisma checks to influence someone, and on Disguise checks when attempting to act as someone else. This hex lasts for 1 day per class level. Minimum Level 7 Hexes: Improved Hexblade's Curse: You curse a creature to ineptitude. The target of this hex takes a -4 penalty on attack rolls, saves, ability checks, skill checks and damage rolls for 1 hour/hexblade level. A Cursed Gift for You: The target of this hex must carry an object designated by you or suffer a -5 penalty on all saves. The item can be vague (such as "a bucket") or very specific (such as "this sack of rocks"), but it cannot be something dangerous or deadly to the target. You must give the object to the target when you activate this hex. This hex lasts for 1 hour per class level. Curse of Fatigue: The target immediately becomes fatigued. The target now requires 12 hours of sleep or is fatigued for the remainder of the day. This hex lasts 1 day per class level. Sactity of Life: The target fears killing and must attempt to deal non-lethal damage whenever possible. Against any fallen foes that have not yet perished, he will attempt to stabilize them with a heal check. This hex lasts for 1 hour per class level. Aura of Unluck: Victims of this hex have trouble hitting their foes. All attacks made by the affected creature suffer a 20% miss chance for 1 hour per hexblade level. Minimum Level 10 Hexes: Cursed Armaments: The target's armor, shield or one weapon being wielded becomes cursed. Any enhancement bonus the item has is reversed. For example, a Spear +3 becomes a Spear -3. This hex lasts for 1 round per hexblade level. Weaken Natural Toughness: Choose either damage reduction, spell resistance, or one type of elemental resistance. If the target has the chosen item, it is reduced by 1 per hexblade level (minimum 0). The duration of this hex is 1 hour per hexblade level. Shakes: The target has uncontrollable shakes, and suffers a -4 penalty to all ranged attack rolls and a 20% spell failure chance for spells with somatic components. This hex lasts 1 hour per class level. Curse of Despair: Your hex is potent, but very specific. Your hex mimics the warlock invocation curse of despair and has a duration of 1 hour. Persistent Hex: Your hexes resists almost every attempt to dispel them. A successful dispel attempt merely grants the victim a second saving throw. If this save fails, the hex still afflicts the target. Minimum Level 13 Hexes: Curse of Anti-Healing: The target loses the ability to gain any hit points from magical healing. This hex lasts for 1 hour per hexblade level. Shortsighted: The target cannot see anything beyond 20 ft., even when using abilities that specify a longer range (such as detect magic or darkvision). This hex lasts 1 hour per class level. Elemental Weakness: The target becomes more susceptible to one energy type chosen by you (fire, acid, electricity, cold, or sonic) and takes an additional 50% damage from that energy type. This hex lasts 1 hour per class level. Skill-less: The target is unable to use three skills of your choosing. This hex lasts 1 hour per class level. Minimum Level 16 Hexes: Greater Hexblade's Curse: You curse a creature to catastrophe. The target of this hex takes a -6 penalty on attack rolls, saves, ability checks, skill checks and damage rolls for 1 hour/hexblade level. Curse of Loss: The target loses access to a class ability, such as spellcasting, sneak attack, or rage. If the class ability is a prerequisite for any feats or other class abilities, he loses access to those as well. This hex lasts for 1 round per class level. Changing Physiology: One of the target's racial abilities (such as a dragon's breath weapon or a troll's regeneration) is lost. This hex lasts for 1 round per class level. No Rest for the Wicked: The target can no longer sleep soundly. He wakes fatigued each morning and cannot perform tasks that require him to be well rested, such as preparing spells. This hex lasts 1 day per class level. Minimum Level 19 Hexes: Reciprocal Curse: The target takes damage equal to the damage he deals to others with weapons. This hex lasts for 1 hour per class level. Murphy's Law: Any critical threats made against the target are automatically confirmed criticals. This hex lasts 1 round per class level. Word of Changing: Your curse transforms targets into inoffensive animals. Your hex mimics the warlock invocation word of changing and has a duration of 1 hour per hexblade level. Swift Hex: At 9th level, a hexblade has learned to place her hexes on targets as a swift action. She may place a hex as a swift action a number of times each day equal to her Charisma modifier. Immediate Hex: At 15th level, a hexblade can place one of her hexes on a target as an immediate action. She may do this a number of times each day equal to her Charisma modifier. There are some more effects that can be robbed from the cursed items in the DMG. There are also some more changes that can be made, but this really really should be the class-defining feature. As such, it deserves to have a lot more attention paid to it than just -2, -4 or -6. Cheers Otto :)
Spikes01k 05-03-07, 07:08 AM	The hexblade suffers a little because he came on the scene relatively early in 3.5's life. As R&D pushes the boundaries of the game, we learn that some things we thought were risky or potentially broken aren't. Other times, we learn things that look fine don't actually work in play. Armored mages fall into the first category. Them seem really powerful, but in the long run they aren't. Spells and magic items allow an unarmored mage to build great defenses. The spell mage armor is as good as medium armor, and its duration allows most mages to keep it active at all times. If you compare the hexblade to the duskblade from PH 2, you can see how the thinking has changed. If you want to boost the hexblade, I'd try the following changes: * Good Fortitude save * Curse ability usable 1 + the hexblade's Cha modifier per day * Curse ability usable as a swift action * Curse ability does not count as used if the target makes his saving throw * Ability to cast in light or medium armor and while carrying a light shield or buckler * At 6th level, the hexblade can cast one hexblade spell per day as a swift action, as long as its original casting time is a standard action or faster. He gains an additional use of this power at levels 8, 11, 14, and 18. The key to the hexblade is his curse ability, but it's a little un-fun to have it so limited in use. The hexblade also has trouble casting spells and using his melee attacks, so shifting spells to swift actions fits in with the idea of an armored mage. (These are by no means official. They're just off the top of my head changes I'd consider making.) I just want to say THANK YOU! I will be making a write-up of a fix off your suggestions shortly!
Spikes01k 05-05-07, 07:41 PM	The hexblade suffers a little because he came on the scene relatively early in 3.5's life. As R&D pushes the boundaries of the game, we learn that some things we thought were risky or potentially broken aren't. Other times, we learn things that look fine don't actually work in play. Armored mages fall into the first category. Them seem really powerful, but in the long run they aren't. Spells and magic items allow an unarmored mage to build great defenses. The spell mage armor is as good as medium armor, and its duration allows most mages to keep it active at all times. If you compare the hexblade to the duskblade from PH 2, you can see how the thinking has changed. If you want to boost the hexblade, I'd try the following changes: * Good Fortitude save * Curse ability usable 1 + the hexblade's Cha modifier per day * Curse ability usable as a swift action * Curse ability does not count as used if the target makes his saving throw * Ability to cast in light or medium armor and while carrying a light shield or buckler * At 6th level, the hexblade can cast one hexblade spell per day as a swift action, as long as its original casting time is a standard action or faster. He gains an additional use of this power at levels 8, 11, 14, and 18. The key to the hexblade is his curse ability, but it's a little un-fun to have it so limited in use. The hexblade also has trouble casting spells and using his melee attacks, so shifting spells to swift actions fits in with the idea of an armored mage. (These are by no means official. They're just off the top of my head changes I'd consider making.) Well I have shown my DM the statement you had here and he did about what I expected, scoffed and pretty much ignored the post. He said that an actual errata he would lessen to, but there is nothing I can do about it until you get around to that, if ever. You'd think an official comment like this might change his mind... I find this very annoying but he is the GM. I will try and do what I can to get that errata. Again thank you for the generous post.
Otto the Bugbear 05-05-07, 10:52 PM	Well I have shown my DM the statement you had here and he did about what I expected, scoffed and pretty much ignored the post. He said that an actual errata he would lessen to, but there is nothing I can do about it until you get around to that, if ever. You'd think an official comment like this might change his mind... I find this very annoying but he is the GM. I will try and do what I can to get that errata. Again thank you for the generous post. He needs to be beat about the head and neck. With a chain saw. That's running. I'll be there shortly. Oh, and... Yay for thread necromancy!
RogerWilco 05-06-07, 12:27 PM	It used to happen all the time. And some members would rip them apart with all the present-tearing-glee of a three-year old on Christmas morning. For the past two years, it has been much more infrequent. Pray we may see these more frequently again. I think it's a good suggestion and will allow it in my game. I have been active on these forums for about 2 years, so I have also never seen a response like this and appreciate it very much.
Spikes01k 05-27-07, 06:15 PM	A notice to everyone, I have started a Hexblade fix petition. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=852040) Please join me in trying to get one of the first New base Classes for 3.5 fixed!
Archangel_James 05-27-07, 08:05 PM	Dude, they never fix classes, so it will be a sad waste of time to see your petition get 100,000 hits and accomplish nothing. And if your DM isn't willing to try out Mearls' suggestion, pop him one in the nose. It's a DM's job to make the game fun for a player. The game is at its most fun when you leave your books on the table and go from custom-made stuff. He won't let you use a fix for a class because it's two clicks shy from being "official"? He should stop playing D&D; it sounds like a computer game with no human judgement would be more up his alley.
Deacon Liadon 05-28-07, 06:47 AM	A notice to everyone, I have started a Hexblade fix petition. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=852040) Please join me in trying to get one of the first New Core Classes for 3.5 fixed! The Hexblade isn't core. It's a base class, not a core class. Personally, I think that there are classes that need fixing more than the Hexblade. The Truenamer for a start, who eventually gets to the point where he cannot use his own abilities.
Spikes01k 05-28-07, 09:31 AM	The Hexblade isn't core. It's a base class, not a core class. Personally, I think that there are classes that need fixing more than the Hexblade. The Truenamer for a start, who eventually gets to the point where he cannot use his own abilities. Thanks for the edit, you are correct, base, not core You may be right, but how many game designers do you know of who has admitted to the public that it is underpowered and gave suggestions on how to fix it?
Araxiss 05-28-07, 05:34 PM	The Truenamer for a start, who eventually gets to the point where he cannot use his own abilities. Explain please, or at least point me to a thread explaining this. :)
Deacon Liadon 05-28-07, 05:40 PM	To use his abilities, a truenamer is required to make a check of DC 15 +twice the HD/CR of whatever he's casting on. This means that, for example, a first level truenamer casting on a single HD kobold needs to get a DC 17 check in order to successfully use the ability. with a fair bit of optimisation this can be done, with difficulty. But as the levels go up, the DC gets higher and higher, until it's almost impossible to use the ability. What makes it even more difficult is that each time you use your abilities, the DC goes up by two resulting in a class that, at higher levels, can't do anything.
Araxiss 05-29-07, 08:51 AM	To use his abilities, a truenamer is required to make a check of DC 15 +twice the HD/CR of whatever he's casting on. This means that, for example, a first level truenamer casting on a single HD kobold needs to get a DC 17 check in order to successfully use the ability. with a fair bit of optimisation this can be done, with difficulty. But as the levels go up, the DC gets higher and higher, until it's almost impossible to use the ability. What makes it even more difficult is that each time you use your abilities, the DC goes up by two resulting in a class that, at higher levels, can't do anything. ...... Whoa. That does need some revision.
KazumoShun 03-24-08, 04:11 PM	You know what would fix Hexblade? Update their bonus feats a bit. Improved Initiative, Battle Caster, Battle Inspiration (Complete champion - makes paladins able to cast all their spells that are not longer than 1 round as -swift actions-. Apply this to the Hexblade, instead of only Paladin.) (Complete Arcane) Arcane Mastery, Practiced Spellcaster, Extra Slot, Extra Spell Allow them to have medium armor proficiency (they can still only cast in light unless they take battle caster) Give them 4+Int Skill points. Allow them 1 + Charisma modifier uses of their Curse at 1st level. They gain an additional curse/day as per their class chart. A failed Curse will not count towards your daily curse limit per day. You may attempt to curse any given opponent only once per round, despite it being a free action to use a curse. If they succeed their save, it does not count towards your daily curses, but you must wait until next round to attempt to curse them once again. Saves do not need to be adjusted,
Kursk 03-24-08, 04:23 PM	You know what would fix Hexblade? Update their bonus feats a bit. Improved Initiative, Battle Caster, Battle Inspiration (Complete champion - makes paladins able to cast all their spells that are not longer than 1 round as -swift actions-. Apply this to the Hexblade, instead of only Paladin.) (Complete Arcane) Arcane Mastery, Practiced Spellcaster, Extra Slot, Extra Spell Allow them to have medium armor proficiency (they can still only cast in light unless they take battle caster) Give them 4+Int Skill points. Allow them 1 + Charisma modifier uses of their Curse at 1st level. They gain an additional curse/day as per their class chart. A failed Curse will not count towards your daily curse limit per day. You may attempt to curse any given opponent only once per round, despite it being a free action to use a curse. If they succeed their save, it does not count towards your daily curses, but you must wait until next round to attempt to curse them once again. Saves do not need to be adjusted, Check out Oct Blades!
KazumoShun 03-24-08, 07:41 PM	Check out Oct Blades! Oct Blades? is that a thread?
Count Arioch the 28th 03-25-08, 11:53 AM	I think he's trying to make a funny. It's a little obscure though. :P
KazumoShun 03-25-08, 08:11 PM	I think he's trying to make a funny. It's a little obscure though. :P It is obscure. Tell me the joke.
Count Arioch the 28th 03-25-08, 11:19 PM	Hex = six sided shapes Oct = eight sided shapes.
Optimator 03-26-08, 01:54 AM	Hex = six sided shapes Oct = eight sided shapes. Cute. ;)