Converting white wolf difficulty rolls into D&D DC checks [Archive] - Wizards Community

Converting white wolf difficulty rolls into D&D DC checks [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
KashGarinn
04-26-05, 10:54 PM Greets.

I have a few players who do not like the white wolf system, so I'm thinking of changing a few things so it'll work in a D&D settings, it's a more familiar system anyway.

I need to convert the DC checks from WW to D&D, how would you convert DC from white wolf (which can be one to many dice checks and from 3 to 10+ on the die itself)?

Would love to check out other peoples ideas before I post mine.

K.
SnowbearK
04-26-05, 11:33 PM It's not a simple formulaic translation unfortunately. You can't just say, add 10 to the WW dif. and there's your DC.

DCs aren't just dependant upon how difficult it is for the average person to accomplish whatever, they're partially dependant on character levels as well.

In WW, a DC of 10 means a damn freakin' difficult task.

For the average commoner (2nd level commoner), they could have a skill bonus anywhere from +0 to +5 (from ranks) and up to +3 more (from feat), so +0 to +8 (average commoners don't have ability bonuses).

A damn freakin' difficult task for them, then, is DC 20-25.

For your average 2nd level PC, who can have anywhere from +0 to an additional +8 tacked onto that (+5 ability bonus, +2 synergy bonus, +1 magically granted bonus), DC 20-25 is pretty routine.

Number of success in WW doesn't even translate to D&D, since 1 die is rolled to determine success or failure.

Your best bet is to get pretty good at determining what the DC is in D&D for any given task, then scrapping the WW references altogether.
Solaris
04-26-05, 11:59 PM You might be able to work out a conversion using the probabilities in the two systems. Perhaps average folk could be used as a baseline, or maybe you can translate levels into die-pool size or something. It could require some experimentation, but you might manage to get something sensible in the end.

Here's a table of White Wolf probabilities found by google:
http://mu.ranter.net/rpg/probabilities.html
weasel fierce
04-27-05, 12:26 AM I'd just wing it. The two systems are rather different. Also, WW;s rules makes the amount of success scored matter, whereas D&D uses succeed or Fail, with no levels of sucess.
Solaris
04-27-05, 12:36 AM Yeah, I'll agree with "just wing it".

I still think there's a possibility of doing it. Perhaps something along the lines of setting a standard difficulty, and then letting one success correspond to a DC of 10, two to 15, three to 20, etc. Or letting difficulty correspond in some way to DC and then only being concerned with whether or not there are any successes. Or something.

But I don't know that it's worth it. If I wanted to use a World of Darkness setting with d20 rules, I'd just try to use the d20 mechanics as given; d20 Modern could probably be adapted for Vampire: The Masquerade in a straightforward manner.

Of course I'd never want to do any such thing: I love the White Wolf system, and I remember fondly the days of yore, in the First Age of roleplaying, long ere the One System was forged "to bring them all and with d20 bind them, in the land of Renton where the Wizards lie."

Ash d20 durbatuluk, ash d20 gimbatul...
KashGarinn
04-27-05, 07:00 AM Actually, I'm not trying to do a direct conversion per se..

I've been following a manga series called hunter x hunter, and the 'magic' system in it is fascinating and logical.

The system which I've found is the closest to being able to represent that is mage the ascension. It's as if the creator took that system, changed it a little and looked at it only from one dogma (explaining the magic system as 'nen') and I wanted to try to capture that a little in d&d so peeps would be willing to partake in the campaign instead of WW.

So basically I'd be changing the magic system in d&d, and giving all classes somekind of a magical bonus to work with.

I'm thinking that I might rather just convince people to use the WW system and lower any penalties when using magic around disbelievers (if anyone knows the mage system), try to create the D&D mood with WW dice..

Seriously, those who know the mage the ascension system, watch the hunter x hunter series or manga from start to finish, and you'll instantly see the similarities and 'get' the differences between the dogmas explained in mage, and vice versa.

S.
StormKnight
04-27-05, 10:44 AM In WW, a DC of 10 means a damn freakin' difficult task.
Actually, a DC 10 in White Wolf would be "impossible other than by sheer luck". Since a '1' on a die cancels a success, no matter how many dice you roll, you are just as likely to succeed as to fail.

I think you'll be better off just going for estimating values, but if you take a fairly unskilled person (average stat, no points in skill) in both systems:
White Wolf - will roll 2 dice from stat.
D&D - no bonus (average stat of 0, no skill bonus)
(looking at just the odds of getting 1 or more success)
WW difficulty 6 = 65% chance of success
65% chance of success = DC 8
WW difficulty 7 = 56% chance of success
56% = DC 10
WW difficulty 8 = 45% chance of success
45% = DC 12
WW difficult 9 = 32% chance of success
32% = DC 15

Of course, the number of success required will drastically change these numbers.
If you need two successes
Diff 6 = 25% = DC 16
Diff 7 = 16% = DC 17
Diff 8 = 9% = DC 19
Diff 9 = 4% = DC 20
KashGarinn
04-27-05, 03:06 PM Hmm.. but aren't the number of successes necessary always something to do with how long something lasts, or how long you try to do stuff?

don't have a WW book with me right now, so can't verify.

K.
Solaris
04-27-05, 03:30 PM Hmm.. but aren't the number of successes necessary always something to do with how long something lasts, or how long you try to do stuff?

They represent degrees of success at the task you're performing.
Gedrin
04-27-05, 03:44 PM Currently, I don't use the D20 system. I actually use a variation of the Storyteller (WW) system. Basic character creation is the same, as is advancement. A class is chosen (because I like the structure it gives), and consists of a set of merits specialized to the class role.

I use difficulty to describe how hard something is to pull off. High diff means it's hard to do.
I use successes to describe the magnitude of success. Lots of successes mean you did something well. Hit hard. Fired accurately. Cast the spell very well/powerfully.

In the past, I did convert from a Storyteller based system, to D20. They produce radically different game environments. I quickly became convinced that I could not run the same kinds of stories in D20 as I could in a Storyteller based system.

If you want your party of 4 experienced PC's to be concerned when confronted by 20 soldiers, use Storyteller. If you want them to know they can Cleave/Fireball their way through them all in 1 round, use D20.
StormKnight
04-27-05, 05:59 PM Hmm.. but aren't the number of successes necessary always something to do with how long something lasts, or how long you try to do stuff?

don't have a WW book with me right now, so can't verify.

K.

Sometimes a task might be so difficult multiple successess are required to even succeed, or an effect might require a certain number of successess. For example, in Mage to produce a given magic effect you would need some number of successess. Usually more than 1.

For a quick conversion, I would say D&D DC = about 2x Storyteller difficulty.
So, difficulty 7 = DC 14.
If more than 2 successess would be required, add 3 to 5 to the DC per extra success needed (3 for diff 6 or less, 4 for 7 or 8, 5 for 9).
Assume a skill bonus from Storyteller is about +2 in D&D per skill dot. So someone with a skill of 5 gets a +10 bonus.

That should give you a fairly reasonable conversion.

I think the new WW, by the way, always uses a fixed difficulty of 6. But since I will never again buy a White Wolf product, I'm not sure.
Solaris
04-27-05, 07:01 PM I think the new WW, by the way, always uses a fixed difficulty of 6.

That's good. The system was broken before (increasing your skill could increase your botch probability) and that fixes it.
striderII
04-28-05, 09:20 PM I think the new WW, by the way, always uses a fixed difficulty of 6. But since I will never again buy a White Wolf product, I'm not sure.

A correction: the target number is always 8 in the Storytelling system. This never changes under any circumstances.

As an aside, what glaring insult did White Wolf commit that apparently has you up in arms about their products?

strider
KashGarinn
04-29-05, 05:46 AM I like your thinking stormknight.. sounds about right.

Thanks for the help guys, It'll help me alot.

K.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
KashGarinn 04-26-05, 10:54 PM	Greets. I have a few players who do not like the white wolf system, so I'm thinking of changing a few things so it'll work in a D&D settings, it's a more familiar system anyway. I need to convert the DC checks from WW to D&D, how would you convert DC from white wolf (which can be one to many dice checks and from 3 to 10+ on the die itself)? Would love to check out other peoples ideas before I post mine. K.
SnowbearK 04-26-05, 11:33 PM	It's not a simple formulaic translation unfortunately. You can't just say, add 10 to the WW dif. and there's your DC. DCs aren't just dependant upon how difficult it is for the average person to accomplish whatever, they're partially dependant on character levels as well. In WW, a DC of 10 means a damn freakin' difficult task. For the average commoner (2nd level commoner), they could have a skill bonus anywhere from +0 to +5 (from ranks) and up to +3 more (from feat), so +0 to +8 (average commoners don't have ability bonuses). A damn freakin' difficult task for them, then, is DC 20-25. For your average 2nd level PC, who can have anywhere from +0 to an additional +8 tacked onto that (+5 ability bonus, +2 synergy bonus, +1 magically granted bonus), DC 20-25 is pretty routine. Number of success in WW doesn't even translate to D&D, since 1 die is rolled to determine success or failure. Your best bet is to get pretty good at determining what the DC is in D&D for any given task, then scrapping the WW references altogether.
Solaris 04-26-05, 11:59 PM	You might be able to work out a conversion using the probabilities in the two systems. Perhaps average folk could be used as a baseline, or maybe you can translate levels into die-pool size or something. It could require some experimentation, but you might manage to get something sensible in the end. Here's a table of White Wolf probabilities found by google: http://mu.ranter.net/rpg/probabilities.html
weasel fierce 04-27-05, 12:26 AM	I'd just wing it. The two systems are rather different. Also, WW;s rules makes the amount of success scored matter, whereas D&D uses succeed or Fail, with no levels of sucess.
Solaris 04-27-05, 12:36 AM	Yeah, I'll agree with "just wing it". I still think there's a possibility of doing it. Perhaps something along the lines of setting a standard difficulty, and then letting one success correspond to a DC of 10, two to 15, three to 20, etc. Or letting difficulty correspond in some way to DC and then only being concerned with whether or not there are any successes. Or something. But I don't know that it's worth it. If I wanted to use a World of Darkness setting with d20 rules, I'd just try to use the d20 mechanics as given; d20 Modern could probably be adapted for Vampire: The Masquerade in a straightforward manner. Of course I'd never want to do any such thing: I love the White Wolf system, and I remember fondly the days of yore, in the First Age of roleplaying, long ere the One System was forged "to bring them all and with d20 bind them, in the land of Renton where the Wizards lie." Ash d20 durbatuluk, ash d20 gimbatul...
KashGarinn 04-27-05, 07:00 AM	Actually, I'm not trying to do a direct conversion per se.. I've been following a manga series called hunter x hunter, and the 'magic' system in it is fascinating and logical. The system which I've found is the closest to being able to represent that is mage the ascension. It's as if the creator took that system, changed it a little and looked at it only from one dogma (explaining the magic system as 'nen') and I wanted to try to capture that a little in d&d so peeps would be willing to partake in the campaign instead of WW. So basically I'd be changing the magic system in d&d, and giving all classes somekind of a magical bonus to work with. I'm thinking that I might rather just convince people to use the WW system and lower any penalties when using magic around disbelievers (if anyone knows the mage system), try to create the D&D mood with WW dice.. Seriously, those who know the mage the ascension system, watch the hunter x hunter series or manga from start to finish, and you'll instantly see the similarities and 'get' the differences between the dogmas explained in mage, and vice versa. S.
StormKnight 04-27-05, 10:44 AM	In WW, a DC of 10 means a damn freakin' difficult task. Actually, a DC 10 in White Wolf would be "impossible other than by sheer luck". Since a '1' on a die cancels a success, no matter how many dice you roll, you are just as likely to succeed as to fail. I think you'll be better off just going for estimating values, but if you take a fairly unskilled person (average stat, no points in skill) in both systems: White Wolf - will roll 2 dice from stat. D&D - no bonus (average stat of 0, no skill bonus) (looking at just the odds of getting 1 or more success) WW difficulty 6 = 65% chance of success 65% chance of success = DC 8 WW difficulty 7 = 56% chance of success 56% = DC 10 WW difficulty 8 = 45% chance of success 45% = DC 12 WW difficult 9 = 32% chance of success 32% = DC 15 Of course, the number of success required will drastically change these numbers. If you need two successes Diff 6 = 25% = DC 16 Diff 7 = 16% = DC 17 Diff 8 = 9% = DC 19 Diff 9 = 4% = DC 20
KashGarinn 04-27-05, 03:06 PM	Hmm.. but aren't the number of successes necessary always something to do with how long something lasts, or how long you try to do stuff? don't have a WW book with me right now, so can't verify. K.
Solaris 04-27-05, 03:30 PM	Hmm.. but aren't the number of successes necessary always something to do with how long something lasts, or how long you try to do stuff? They represent degrees of success at the task you're performing.
Gedrin 04-27-05, 03:44 PM	Currently, I don't use the D20 system. I actually use a variation of the Storyteller (WW) system. Basic character creation is the same, as is advancement. A class is chosen (because I like the structure it gives), and consists of a set of merits specialized to the class role. I use difficulty to describe how hard something is to pull off. High diff means it's hard to do. I use successes to describe the magnitude of success. Lots of successes mean you did something well. Hit hard. Fired accurately. Cast the spell very well/powerfully. In the past, I did convert from a Storyteller based system, to D20. They produce radically different game environments. I quickly became convinced that I could not run the same kinds of stories in D20 as I could in a Storyteller based system. If you want your party of 4 experienced PC's to be concerned when confronted by 20 soldiers, use Storyteller. If you want them to know they can Cleave/Fireball their way through them all in 1 round, use D20.
StormKnight 04-27-05, 05:59 PM	Hmm.. but aren't the number of successes necessary always something to do with how long something lasts, or how long you try to do stuff? don't have a WW book with me right now, so can't verify. K. Sometimes a task might be so difficult multiple successess are required to even succeed, or an effect might require a certain number of successess. For example, in Mage to produce a given magic effect you would need some number of successess. Usually more than 1. For a quick conversion, I would say D&D DC = about 2x Storyteller difficulty. So, difficulty 7 = DC 14. If more than 2 successess would be required, add 3 to 5 to the DC per extra success needed (3 for diff 6 or less, 4 for 7 or 8, 5 for 9). Assume a skill bonus from Storyteller is about +2 in D&D per skill dot. So someone with a skill of 5 gets a +10 bonus. That should give you a fairly reasonable conversion. I think the new WW, by the way, always uses a fixed difficulty of 6. But since I will never again buy a White Wolf product, I'm not sure.
Solaris 04-27-05, 07:01 PM	I think the new WW, by the way, always uses a fixed difficulty of 6. That's good. The system was broken before (increasing your skill could increase your botch probability) and that fixes it.
striderII 04-28-05, 09:20 PM	I think the new WW, by the way, always uses a fixed difficulty of 6. But since I will never again buy a White Wolf product, I'm not sure. A correction: the target number is always 8 in the Storytelling system. This never changes under any circumstances. As an aside, what glaring insult did White Wolf commit that apparently has you up in arms about their products? strider
KashGarinn 04-29-05, 05:46 AM	I like your thinking stormknight.. sounds about right. Thanks for the help guys, It'll help me alot. K.