Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Varchild 02-24-04, 03:06 AM	I'm trying to get information on where I can e-mail Wizards with a link to a web site that blatantly uses the spell content from several D&D books which have been published, INCLUDING the Players Hand book! THANKS! Varchild
OtherNiceMan 02-24-04, 03:15 AM	Well you could start by emailing custserv@wizards.com. WoTC have released large sections of the game as Open Content (http://www.wizards.com/d20) so it may be perfectly legal.
Capn Charlie 02-24-04, 03:31 AM	Why don't you post a link here. I am quite curious myself. You are aware of the OGL aren't you?
Solaris 02-24-04, 03:51 AM	Holy tattletales! Good thing you were on the case! Honestly, I haven't seen this kind of thing since gradeschool.
Incenjucar 02-24-04, 03:58 AM	1) He's new for the month, so may well be a troll. 2) The OGL means you can SELL stuff taken from the SRD, and even the SRD itself. Some companies are doing exactly that as is. 3) Copyright issues -are- a big deal. Maybe not for a company as large as WotC, but for small-time publishers and writer, it's a real problem. Nipping it in the bud is generally a good idea. 4) Being excited about being dutiful is generally a bad sign. Sober is too rare a manner.
Ranger REG 02-24-04, 04:17 AM	Originally posted by Varchild I'm trying to get information on where I can e-mail Wizards with a link to a web site that blatantly uses the spell content from several D&D books which have been published, INCLUDING the Players Hand book! Dare I ask, what web site do you find a possible violation?
Capn Charlie 02-24-04, 04:56 AM	Originally posted by Incenjucar 1) He's new for the month, so may well be a troll. Actually that is the first and only post the guy has made. I am however very curious as to which site he's talking about. And yes, the schoolyard factor is pretty high on this one, Solaris. But then, I love a good spectacle. Always have.
jasper 02-24-04, 09:03 AM	No the poster is trying to be a good citizen by trying to report things he thinks are illegal. the site may just have ogl material. Or like one site I report the guy had the full copy the second edition monster manual.
Zherog 02-24-04, 09:33 AM	Originally posted by Incenjucar 1) He's new for the month, so may well be a troll. Right, because everybody who is new is a troll. :rolleyes:
Capn Charlie 02-24-04, 09:35 AM	I have seen at least three "one posters" trolling in the last two hours. It is a valid concern.
Another Gnome 02-24-04, 12:08 PM	I'm trying to get information on where I can e-mail Wizards with a link to a web site that blatantly uses the spell content from several D&D books which have been published, INCLUDING the Players Hand book! THANKS! To me it looks like a nice, polite question (if perhaps a bit misinformed) was asked and a valid answer was given in an equally polite manner. Now, I may be a bit slow or perhaps I'm just naive, but valid concerns aside, precisely what in the above text counts as trolling?
diaglo 02-24-04, 01:08 PM	Originally posted by Zherog Right, because everybody who is new is a troll. :rolleyes: :behold: some of us are old pros. :D
Edymnion 02-24-04, 02:06 PM	Originally posted by Solaris Holy tattletales! Good thing you were on the case! Honestly, I haven't seen this kind of thing since gradeschool. Funny, you said that same thing to ME before. I'll chalk it up to you just having a really bad memory though. Really, if there is anybody trolling or baiting anyone here, its Solaris. "Oh no, this guy is doing the morally correct thing, and is trying to keep the game alive. I better call him names and imply that he's a 6 year old. Yeah, that'll make me look like a big man, then nobody will look at how I've got all these pirated books on my computer. Yeah, that'll do it!" Seriously Solaris, if you've got some twisted moral compunction to try and keep other people from doing the right thing, do you think you could take it somewhere else? I mean, what do you do all day, hang around police stations making fun of people that come in to report crimes? "Ha ha, you got robbed! You want to give a description of the guy that stole your purse? Stop being a tattletail!" It gets really old, really fast.
Varchild 02-24-04, 02:45 PM	I have to obtain the link to the website again, but after I get it, I'm going to post it here. I'm not trying to be a forum troll, its a legitmate question.
Edymnion 02-24-04, 02:50 PM	Originally posted by Varchild I have to obtain the link to the website again, but after I get it, I'm going to post it here. Don't post it here, as that would probably get you in trouble with the WizO's. Send an email to customer service ( custserv@wizards.com ) and tell them what the URL is, and let them forward it on to the legal department.
Zherog 02-24-04, 02:54 PM	Originally posted by Varchild I have to obtain the link to the website again, but after I get it, I'm going to post it here. I'm not trying to be a forum troll, its a legitmate question. Don't worry, Varchild. Most of us are aware that you aren't trolling. Just some people like throwing that word around. If the link you have refers to the SRD, that is OK. Most material from the Player's Handbook, Dungeon Masters Guide and Monster Manual is already available on the web, curtesy of Wizards. You can find that kind of stuff at www.opengamingfoundation.org. Now, if the link you have contains info from books other than those three, there might be a problem. I'm just guessing, but if the link has "bad" stuff, I would think the wizo's (the people who moderate these boards) probably wouldn't want it posted. That's just a guess though. I believe the advice OtherNiceMan gave you (contacting customer service) is probably your best course of action.
Solaris 02-24-04, 03:15 PM	Originally posted by Edymnion Funny, you said that same thing to ME before. I'll chalk it up to you just having a really bad memory though. You'd be correct, too (though you being unmemorable could have been a factor). I do remember now, however. "Oh no, this guy is doing the morally correct thing, and is trying to keep the game alive. I better call him names and imply that he's a 6 year old. Yeah, that'll make me look like a big man, then nobody will look at how I've got all these pirated books on my computer. Yeah, that'll do it!" Well, that's a whole lot of conclusion you got there for no investment of fact. Very creative. Well done. Is making up lots of crap with which to attack your opponent how you usually conduct yourself in an argument? Does that actually work for you? There have been websites with pirated material for as long as there's been a web (witness TSR's early attempts to shut them down) -- and the game is going strong. He's not keeping it alive. I'm also not interested in being a "big man", but I am annoyed by busybodies like this. It seems very similar to the child who tries to gain points (and be a "big man"?) by tattling on his classmates. It's not a good look for adults. As for any pirated books I may or may not have: again, I congratulate you on your creative inference. Seriously Solaris, if you've got some twisted moral compunction to try and keep other people from doing the right thing, do you think you could take it somewhere else? And if you've got some moral compunction to try to be an internet paladin, could you take it somewhere else? I mean, what do you do all day, hang around police stations making fun of people that come in to report crimes? And what do you do all day, hang around on the streets reporting jaywalkers to the police? What a hero! "Ha ha, you got robbed! You want to give a description of the guy that stole your purse? Stop being a tattletail!" Bogus. Copyright infringement is not theft and never has been. If you don't believe me, ask the supreme court.
Zherog 02-24-04, 03:23 PM	Perhaps the two of you could keep your personal grudge match elsewhere? Varchild posted a legitimate question, whether or not you agree with his motives matters not.
Capn Charlie 02-24-04, 03:30 PM	Originally posted by Capn Charlie But then, I love a good spectacle. Always have. Wish I had me some marshmallows. Or perhaps popcorn. Sure the marshmallows are appropriate, what with the flaming and all, but popcorn just seems appropriate for a good brawl.
J. Grenemyer 02-24-04, 05:08 PM	[Gets up on pedestal] Hello Everyone, To be blunt: Solaris' comments in his second post have got to be the most overly defensive, immature and hurtful (to the game) that I've ever seen posted online. Further, adults, unless I'm mistaken, are the people that maintain and uphold a moral center. But more important than that adults (unlike children and adolescents) are able to recognize and respect the values of others that they may not themselves share. And while a healthy dose of skepticism is required when reading material online (such as the opener to this thread), that skepticism alone is not a license to freely criticize the author of a suspected thread, much less ignore subsequent posts by that author that lend credence to the idea that the original poster is sincere in his reasoning and efforts to protect the game, regardless of the author's seeming lack of knowledge about the SRD and OGL. That Solaris did open fire on the thread starter, in addition to deliberately ignoring subsequent comments by that person (which illustrated said person's sincerity) such that Solaris chose to angrily reply to Edymnion in lieu of admitting to his error (much less apologizing to the thread starter) reveals a level of immaturity that should not be condoned by adults, but instead be discouraged. This Community does not need people who work to keep others from adhering to values that serve to keep our shared hobby alive and viable as a product. [Gets off of pedestal]
Puritan13 02-24-04, 05:18 PM	Originally posted by Capn Charlie Wish I had me some marshmallows. Or perhaps popcorn. Sure the marshmallows are appropriate, what with the flaming and all, but popcorn just seems appropriate for a good brawl. mmmmmmmmmm... Marshmallows.
Solaris 02-24-04, 05:20 PM	J. Grenemyer: Take a hike? Get bent. I never questioned the original poster's sincerity (I believe he's sincere in his desires to feel important by being a tattletale -- it was someone else who called him a troll, if you'll recall), so I can't figure out how demonstrations of his sincerity have supposedly put me in error. As for my second post, it was simply in response to Edymnion's bull (some of which, incidentally, appears to be fertilizing your own post). Feel free to read into my comments whatever you like, though. I doubt I'll be able to dissuade you. I'll have to be content with the humor that's to be had from watching all you Lawful Goodygoody Heroes clamber for the moral high ground. After all, if WotC gives the original poster a pat on the head and a Junior Sherriff badge, maybe he'll let you be his deputies! Have fun :) P.S. I find it fascinating that simply calling a tattletale a tattletale could elicit such responses. Did you guys do it in school, and get beaten up for it or something? It seems to be a bit of a touchy subject... Maybe you guys just really, really care about copyright infringement. Were your families killed by copyright infringers? To be serious for a moment: For my part, this kind of thing falls well within the "live and let live" category. It's just not something I care enough about (unlike, say, burglary or assault) to go out of my way to report. So, from my perspective, it just seems really petty, and that makes the person doing it seem like a childish jerk. That's why I called him a tattletale.
NestroEmichae 02-24-04, 05:21 PM	Varchild- Is the website Crystal Keep? They generally copy even the copyrighted stuff from the books and put in on the internet to be downloaded for free. I can pm you a link if you want it. Also, I would assume that the WizOs and WotC are aware of it by this point: It's been doing that since early 3.0, and you wouldn't be the first person to run across it and post a link on here. I generally use it to look up some obscure spell or feat when I'm too lazy to dig out the books. About Solaris: In my experience, Edymnion doesn't attack without a reason. Solaris's first post almost has me looking up delayed-blast acid ball,
J. Grenemyer 02-24-04, 06:22 PM	Originally posted by Solaris I never questioned the original poster's sincerity… That's right, you didn't. That was your first mistake. I'll even spell out for you why this is important, in a voice you are sure to understand: [Adopts the tone of a parent speaking to an exceptionally petulant child] ”You see, little man, the point is that it not OK for you to blurt out your unhappiness whenever you read something you don’t like. If you don’t have a good idea about the reasons behind what is being said, it’s not OK for you to complain. Adults make sure they know what is going on before they criticize. Children just shoot off their mouths without a thought. I’m disappointed with you because you did the later and not the former. Understand, little man?” So, if we have reason to believe the original poster was sincere in his efforts and also recognize he was trying to protect the Hobby we all enjoy, we realize you’re description of his efforts as that of a “tattletale” are entirely off the mark, just as your linking his behavior to that of what is found in a schoolyard is also incorrect. And yet when you're criticized for being (obviously) in the wrong, you fought back instead of acknowledging your error. This was your second mistake. Originally posted by Solaris I'll have to be content with the humor that's to be had from watching all you Lawful Goodygoody Heroes clamber for the moral high ground. What does Lawful Good have to do with real life morals? Are the alignment charts in the PHB what you use to set your own personal moral standards? Originally posted by Solaris Hey, if WotC gives the original poster a pat on the head and a Junior Sherriff badge, maybe he'll let you be his deputies! I think this comment illustrates best your attitude: To hell with the game and the people care about it. Originally posted by Solaris For my part, this kind of thing falls well within the "live and let live" category. It's just not something I care enough about (unlike, say, burglary or assault) to go out of my way to report. And yet that same discretion fails to manifest when you decide you want to blast someone else for doing it. Solaris, I repeat my previous advice: Take a hike. The community doesn’t need what you have to give.
Solaris 02-24-04, 06:40 PM	(I'll just omit the childish insults from your quoted text below -- it doesn't really help things.) Originally posted by J. Grenemyer the point is that it not OK for you to blurt out your unhappiness whenever you read something you don’t like. Sure it is. The boards are full of it. People with opposing views expressing those views on threads. It's ok for me to do it, just like it's ok for YOU to do it, as you have been. Ultimately, you and I (and the original poster) are simply upholding ends of a discussion. You and I just seem to fall naturally into being highly inflammatory when we go about it, which, actually, might not be okay, but you're as guilty of it as I: I called the original poster a tattletale, and you called me all sorts of other things: little man, petulant child, a worthless member of the community, someone who wishes harm to the game (?!). recognize he was trying to protect the Hobby we all enjoy You're still operating on the assumption that infringing web pages are somehow damaging the hobby. You're free to assume it if you really want to, but it hasn't been shown to be the case, and I'd argue that there's plenty of evidence against it simply in the fact that the game is going stronger than it ever has been, despite such sites having existed for many, many years. And yet when you're criticized for being (obviously) in the wrong, you fought back instead of acknowledging your error. Well, if it's obviously been shown that he's not being a tattletale, I missed it. I still can't find it, in fact. Maybe this is just a matter of opinion. I think this comment illustrates best your attitude: To hell with the game and the people care about it. This is so far off the mark as to not even be visible. But as I suggested in a previous post, you're free to read all the falsehood you like into my statements (it's something you and Edymnion both seem to enjoy), and, as I said, it doesn't seem I've been able to dissuade you from it. Solaris, I repeat my previous advice: Take a hike. That's advice? Sounds more like you're being condescending and confrontational (rather like the entire first part of your post). But if that's advice, I'll repeat mine: Get bent.
Thrudjelmer 02-24-04, 07:05 PM	Originally posted by Solaris Sure it is. The boards are full of it. People with opposing views expressing those views on threads. It's ok for me to do it, just like it's ok for YOU to do it, as you have been. Ultimately, you and I (and the original poster) are simply upholding ends of a discussion. You and I just seem to fall naturally into being highly inflammatory when we go about it, which, actually, might not be okay, but you're as guilty of it as I: I called the original poster a tattletale, and you called me all sorts of other things: little man, petulant child, a worthless member of the community, someone who wishes harm to the game (?!). But your initial attack had little provocation to be inflametory. Did Varchild secretly encode a hidden message into his first post that criticized you personally somehow? Was there a need for you to comment at all, let alone stoop to the childish behavior of namecalling with an equally childish name like "tattletale"? He started a discussion and you started blasting. It seems to me that this is one of those instances of "If you have nothing nice to say, shut the Hell up."
Solaris 02-24-04, 07:09 PM	Originally posted by Thrudjelmer Was there a need for you to comment at all Need, no. Desire, yes. let alone stoop to the childish behavior of namecalling with an equally childish name like "tattletale"? Well, that was partly to be illustrative of the point. Also, the original post was actually done with some humor in mind (Holy tattletales!). I guess I have only myself to blame if that wasn't clear. That aside, I suppose it could have been phrased in a more highbrow manner, but the word worked. It seems to me that this is one of those instances of "If you have nothing nice to say, shut the Hell up." A good principle. And you probably wouldn't believe how often I exercise it. (I bet on some days Edymnion and Grenemyer do also!)
J. Grenemyer 02-24-04, 07:33 PM	Originally posted by Solaris A good principle ... (I bet on some days Edymnion and Grenemyer do also!) Hardly. Edymnion practices character assassination on The Sage every chance he gets and I tend to join flame wars way more often than I should. But oh well. ;)
Edymnion 02-24-04, 08:22 PM	Originally posted by J. Grenemyer Hardly. Edymnion practices character assassination on The Sage every chance he gets and I tend to join flame wars way more often than I should. But oh well. ;) Lol, what can I say, I think the Sorcerer is a great class and that the rules are fine as written, and Skip and I seem to dissagree in those two areas ;) I would like to apologize for falling for Solaris's trolling though. Should have seen it coming, but I didn't stop to think about it first. So while I won't apologize for what I said, I will apologize for where I said it (aka out here in the general forums). I should have kept my mouth shut, but I hate to see somebody get jumped on for doing the right thing.
Seeker95 02-24-04, 08:52 PM	Everyone go to their neutral evil corners. When the WizOs finally get around to locking this thread, anybody wanna take bets on how many participants get personal warning e-mails? My vote is two. One for the punch. One more for punching back. (Of course, this post might qualify me for a third!)
Solaris 02-24-04, 08:53 PM	Without wanting to flare this up again, I'd like to say that I wasn't trolling; i.e., my post was not intended to elicit the ensuing flame war, or, indeed, any kind of response at all. I would have been happy simply to have said my piece and have been done with it, with it perhaps serving as food for the thoughts of others. I only wanted to make the point that I thought the original post was petty, and tantamount to tattling. It was a statement of my opinion on the matter, a "my two coppers" kind of thing. I wasn't seeking a flame war, but did defend myself (and accept responsibility for doing so, of course).
Edymnion 02-24-04, 09:20 PM	Originally posted by Seeker95 When the WizOs finally get around to locking this thread, anybody wanna take bets on how many participants get personal warning e-mails? My vote is two. One for the punch. One more for punching back. *raises hand* Yup, and I probably deserve it. C'est la vie.