Cost of Slavery [Archive] - Wizards Community

Cost of Slavery [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Walter_O_Dim
04-30-08, 10:21 AM I'm after a system for working out the costs of slaves, this was a thread from way back and there was a particularly good table which I've since lost. If someone could point me in the direction of good table I'd be much obliged, thus far all I've been able to find is Kismet's guide (http://www.kismetrose.com/dnd/MySlaveCosts.html) which isn't to say it isn't a good guide, but I'm hoping for something to compare it to.
Escef
04-30-08, 12:18 PM Was it THIS (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=929328) thread?
icuall
04-30-08, 01:56 PM What I would do is determine how the pricing would fit in the economics of your campaign. In my game I like to have some realism in my pricing, but that is just me.

If you take a Commoner Laborer – unskilled and they earn 1 sp a day (or 3 gp a month). Thus someone is paying them 3 gp a month which is their cost. For low skill laborer work, (like farming, digging ditches, housekeeping, etc) someone would only buy them if the slaves were cheaper than hiring paid labor. There would have to be a profit to rationalize the purchase, compensate for the upfront costs, and upkeep. In an attempt to answer your question, how much profit does a purchaser expect from the labor provided?

Let’s take a simple farmer; he and his family work the land. The farmer is looking into if he should purchase a slave field-hand or contract with an indentured servant to assist with the crops. The field hand is doing the same type of work as a paid laborer, it makes sense that the farmer will not pay more than a basis of 3gp a month for X amount of years he expects to keep the field hand. Lets say he expects to keep a field-hand for 10 years (10 years x 12 months x 3gp month = 360 gp) he would look for a price of less than 360gp. The less the farmer pays the more profit he expects to receive spread over the 10 years. For the farmer to earn any money based on the field hand’s labor, the field-hand has to produce more than his purchase price and his upkeep.

For argument’s sake, say the farmer knows that one field hand will produce X amount of product and the product can be sold for 72 gp annually. Thus the profit from the field hand over ten years is 72gp x 10 yrs = 720 gp less purchase cost (200 gp) = 520 gp, or 52 gp per year. (Then of course he pays taxes and has other expenses, but that’s a different subject.) In my example, for a simple laborer he/she price would be 200 gp and lower. And if they are younger, then they would cost more because you would get more work out of them. Since going through this example, for game mechanices, I'd rule that they costs between 100 to 400 gp, depending on the work provided.

In my game, there are nations that have slaves, Faerūn. Our campaign is centralized around about freeing the neighboring slaves in other countries…being the heroes! They are out to stop the slave trade and be a location of freedom for all.
Walter_O_Dim
05-04-08, 07:38 AM Was it THIS (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=929328) thread?
Unfortunately no, about the only semi-specific details I can remember about the thread is that it was a very detailed, with prices for skill points, feats, species and I think even for gender and age, and then there were replies from people pointing out how the system could be manipulated for maximum stat slaves for next to nothing. And just remembered a user named 'quicksilver' or something close to that made several posts, his avatar was a kraken rearing out of the water I hope that helps XD
I'm still looking for the thread myself but I'm sure there would be a hundred other systems out there that are just as good that you could link me to
As always, any help you guys can giv me is of great help
kelvinaw273
05-04-08, 11:21 AM In the absence of this thread, consider this:

What you have to bear in mind is that you have to feed, clothe and house your slaves. Hence a slave probably costs around half of what a commoner would cost. A skilled slave would cost more because you really need to keep them relatively happy (or terrified) to turn out good work.

Also bear in mind that slaves are sold according to their apparent value, not their actual value. A slave can make themselves a bargain by concealing their skills from bad owners, and revealing them to good ones. The downside of this is that they may end up stuck stone-breaking or rowing in a galley where there is no opportunity to show their abilities and improve their lot. So the primary factors on a slave's value are:

Attitude
Health & Age
Appearance or Skills

Experience level doesn't really come into it, save insofar as it effects skills. Attitude has a big effect - no point buying a slave with good skills if they are likely to try and escape, or don't want to use them, or can't be trusted (if they are a criminal, for example). Appearance is a variable - if you want a skilled engraver then looks don't matter, if you want a bed-warmer, they are paramount.

So I would guess, to get the value of a slave make the base cost 3gp+1gp per skill level (or positive charisma modifier, or both) desired. Add or subtract the Con modifier to this. Age will add fifty percent if Young Adult, subtract twenty five percent for each age category over this. If the attitude of the slave is unfriendly or worse, then skills become irrelevant (although appearance may still be). If a slave wants to impress with their skills they need to make a Craft or Profession (or a Bluff) check on the relevant skill (for a fighting slave, like a gladiator, make on their attack bonus) against an assessor's Sense Motive skill.

Upkeep will be double this for a year. Use of Intimidate or other skills on your slaves may improve their Attitude - one reason slavers tend to be nasty.

Slave economies tend to be poor. The reason for this is that slavery stifles wealth - a slave has almost no disposable income, so no money to put back into circulation. When slavery is common, it can both underpin and restrict an economy.
Shiftkitty
05-04-08, 05:54 PM Green Ronin's "Plot & Poison" has a listing of what their drow usually use for starting bids on slaves. Kobolds, for example, start at a 5gp bid, while an athach bid starts at 800gp.
Walter_O_Dim
05-04-08, 08:56 PM In the absence of this thread, consider this:

What you have to bear in mind is that you have to feed, clothe and house your slaves. Hence a slave probably costs around half of what a commoner would cost. A skilled slave would cost more because you really need to keep them relatively happy (or terrified) to turn out good work.

Also bear in mind that slaves are sold according to their apparent value, not their actual value. A slave can make themselves a bargain by concealing their skills from bad owners, and revealing them to good ones. The downside of this is that they may end up stuck stone-breaking or rowing in a galley where there is no opportunity to show their abilities and improve their lot. So the primary factors on a slave's value are:

Attitude
Health & Age
Appearance or Skills

Experience level doesn't really come into it, save insofar as it effects skills. Attitude has a big effect - no point buying a slave with good skills if they are likely to try and escape, or don't want to use them, or can't be trusted (if they are a criminal, for example). Appearance is a variable - if you want a skilled engraver then looks don't matter, if you want a bed-warmer, they are paramount.

So I would guess, to get the value of a slave make the base cost 3gp+1gp per skill level (or positive charisma modifier, or both) desired. Add or subtract the Con modifier to this. Age will add fifty percent if Young Adult, subtract twenty five percent for each age category over this. If the attitude of the slave is unfriendly or worse, then skills become irrelevant (although appearance may still be). If a slave wants to impress with their skills they need to make a Craft or Profession (or a Bluff) check on the relevant skill (for a fighting slave, like a gladiator, make on their attack bonus) against an assessor's Sense Motive skill.

Upkeep will be double this for a year. Use of Intimidate or other skills on your slaves may improve their Attitude - one reason slavers tend to be nasty.

Slave economies tend to be poor. The reason for this is that slavery stifles wealth - a slave has almost no disposable income, so no money to put back into circulation. When slavery is common, it can both underpin and restrict an economy.

What about for different species? elves live longer and have useful racial traits, orcs are stronger and can carry more, halfling are shorter and weaker so generally less desirable unless skilled? or if the slave is sick or weak and is therefore worth less (this I don't think was covered in the original thread I'm looking for)? or differeing values for men and women and then for better or worse looking women (something I won't put in my campaign)?
And even higher ability scores in humans are worthy of a higher price, a stronger slave can carry more and does more damage with a weapon.

For example, if I wanted a bedwarmer slave girl with 20's for every stat it would cost 185 Gp and double that in upkeep for the next year, which is 555 Gp in total. (I hope I used your system right) which means the PC's could create a small army (50) of these characters at fifth level and still equip themselves, that would make them nearly unstoppable, unless as DM I rule that they're not allowed to do it and I don't want to limit my PC's actions like that.
Although I do like the price adjustment for age category, it's something that kismet's guide doesn't have, and it looks like her guides the best I'll get in place of the one I first found
Walter_O_Dim
05-04-08, 09:08 PM Also, I think the first guide I found was posted before all that stuff with gleemax, would that make a difference in finding it?
Sarella Starshine
05-04-08, 10:10 PM if the thread was in the mature forums, then you will not be able to access it unless you enter your birthdate into your profile and hope you are over 18. (if you have done that and cannot access it, it is because when they take the servers down for maintence is when they do the mature access stuff)
kelvinaw273
05-05-08, 04:58 AM What about for different species? elves live longer and have useful racial traits, orcs are stronger and can carry more, halfling are shorter and weaker so generally less desirable unless skilled? or if the slave is sick or weak and is therefore worth less (this I don't think was covered in the original thread I'm looking for)? or differeing values for men and women and then for better or worse looking women (something I won't put in my campaign)?
And even higher ability scores in humans are worthy of a higher price, a stronger slave can carry more and does more damage with a weapon.

For example, if I wanted a bedwarmer slave girl with 20's for every stat it would cost 185 Gp and double that in upkeep for the next year, which is 555 Gp in total. (I hope I used your system right) which means the PC's could create a small army (50) of these characters at fifth level and still equip themselves, that would make them nearly unstoppable, unless as DM I rule that they're not allowed to do it and I don't want to limit my PC's actions like that.
Although I do like the price adjustment for age category, it's something that kismet's guide doesn't have, and it looks like her guides the best I'll get in place of the one I first found

Availability will effect price ... if you want a strong slave treat the strength bonus as the skill in question, for all slaves con is factored (how healthy they are) but an obviously sick slave will fetch less.

If you can FIND a person with 20's in each stat, good for you. Finding one person with a 20 charisma isn't easy, and what you have to bear in mind is that slaves are not like mass-produced commodities. Just because player characters have the money does not mean the goods are available. In fact, the same goes for any other non-mass produced commodity (and in a non-industrial society, that's just about everything).

Finding commoners with a 12 in a stat and a single skill point is easy. Finding an expert with a 16 in a single stat would be a one-in-a-hundred slave. An 18 would be one-in-a-thousand. If the slave auctioneer only has fifty slaves up for sale ... what are your odds? Not good.

I know it upsets some Players when you explain to them that sorry, they may have ten thousand gold pieces, but there just isn't any of what they want for sale, but that's the way the world is.
Walter_O_Dim
05-05-08, 09:33 AM I just don't want to work out how many of the hundred slaves available have a slave with a given stat score
Ash2Dust
05-05-08, 10:43 AM If you can FIND a person with 20's in each stat, good for you. Finding one person with a 20 charisma isn't easy, and what you have to bear in mind is that slaves are not like mass-produced commodities. Just because player characters have the money does not mean the goods are available. In fact, the same goes for any other non-mass produced commodity (and in a non-industrial society, that's just about everything).

Not to mention that anything with all 20's, or even one 20 and the rest falling into average range, has likely long since made his way out of slavery somehow and taken up adventuring.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Walter_O_Dim 04-30-08, 10:21 AM	I'm after a system for working out the costs of slaves, this was a thread from way back and there was a particularly good table which I've since lost. If someone could point me in the direction of good table I'd be much obliged, thus far all I've been able to find is Kismet's guide (http://www.kismetrose.com/dnd/MySlaveCosts.html) which isn't to say it isn't a good guide, but I'm hoping for something to compare it to.
Escef 04-30-08, 12:18 PM	Was it THIS (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=929328) thread?
icuall 04-30-08, 01:56 PM	What I would do is determine how the pricing would fit in the economics of your campaign. In my game I like to have some realism in my pricing, but that is just me. If you take a Commoner Laborer – unskilled and they earn 1 sp a day (or 3 gp a month). Thus someone is paying them 3 gp a month which is their cost. For low skill laborer work, (like farming, digging ditches, housekeeping, etc) someone would only buy them if the slaves were cheaper than hiring paid labor. There would have to be a profit to rationalize the purchase, compensate for the upfront costs, and upkeep. In an attempt to answer your question, how much profit does a purchaser expect from the labor provided? Let’s take a simple farmer; he and his family work the land. The farmer is looking into if he should purchase a slave field-hand or contract with an indentured servant to assist with the crops. The field hand is doing the same type of work as a paid laborer, it makes sense that the farmer will not pay more than a basis of 3gp a month for X amount of years he expects to keep the field hand. Lets say he expects to keep a field-hand for 10 years (10 years x 12 months x 3gp month = 360 gp) he would look for a price of less than 360gp. The less the farmer pays the more profit he expects to receive spread over the 10 years. For the farmer to earn any money based on the field hand’s labor, the field-hand has to produce more than his purchase price and his upkeep. For argument’s sake, say the farmer knows that one field hand will produce X amount of product and the product can be sold for 72 gp annually. Thus the profit from the field hand over ten years is 72gp x 10 yrs = 720 gp less purchase cost (200 gp) = 520 gp, or 52 gp per year. (Then of course he pays taxes and has other expenses, but that’s a different subject.) In my example, for a simple laborer he/she price would be 200 gp and lower. And if they are younger, then they would cost more because you would get more work out of them. Since going through this example, for game mechanices, I'd rule that they costs between 100 to 400 gp, depending on the work provided. In my game, there are nations that have slaves, Faerūn. Our campaign is centralized around about freeing the neighboring slaves in other countries…being the heroes! They are out to stop the slave trade and be a location of freedom for all.
Walter_O_Dim 05-04-08, 07:38 AM	Was it THIS (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=929328) thread? Unfortunately no, about the only semi-specific details I can remember about the thread is that it was a very detailed, with prices for skill points, feats, species and I think even for gender and age, and then there were replies from people pointing out how the system could be manipulated for maximum stat slaves for next to nothing. And just remembered a user named 'quicksilver' or something close to that made several posts, his avatar was a kraken rearing out of the water I hope that helps XD I'm still looking for the thread myself but I'm sure there would be a hundred other systems out there that are just as good that you could link me to As always, any help you guys can giv me is of great help
kelvinaw273 05-04-08, 11:21 AM	In the absence of this thread, consider this: What you have to bear in mind is that you have to feed, clothe and house your slaves. Hence a slave probably costs around half of what a commoner would cost. A skilled slave would cost more because you really need to keep them relatively happy (or terrified) to turn out good work. Also bear in mind that slaves are sold according to their apparent value, not their actual value. A slave can make themselves a bargain by concealing their skills from bad owners, and revealing them to good ones. The downside of this is that they may end up stuck stone-breaking or rowing in a galley where there is no opportunity to show their abilities and improve their lot. So the primary factors on a slave's value are: Attitude Health & Age Appearance or Skills Experience level doesn't really come into it, save insofar as it effects skills. Attitude has a big effect - no point buying a slave with good skills if they are likely to try and escape, or don't want to use them, or can't be trusted (if they are a criminal, for example). Appearance is a variable - if you want a skilled engraver then looks don't matter, if you want a bed-warmer, they are paramount. So I would guess, to get the value of a slave make the base cost 3gp+1gp per skill level (or positive charisma modifier, or both) desired. Add or subtract the Con modifier to this. Age will add fifty percent if Young Adult, subtract twenty five percent for each age category over this. If the attitude of the slave is unfriendly or worse, then skills become irrelevant (although appearance may still be). If a slave wants to impress with their skills they need to make a Craft or Profession (or a Bluff) check on the relevant skill (for a fighting slave, like a gladiator, make on their attack bonus) against an assessor's Sense Motive skill. Upkeep will be double this for a year. Use of Intimidate or other skills on your slaves may improve their Attitude - one reason slavers tend to be nasty. Slave economies tend to be poor. The reason for this is that slavery stifles wealth - a slave has almost no disposable income, so no money to put back into circulation. When slavery is common, it can both underpin and restrict an economy.
Shiftkitty 05-04-08, 05:54 PM	Green Ronin's "Plot & Poison" has a listing of what their drow usually use for starting bids on slaves. Kobolds, for example, start at a 5gp bid, while an athach bid starts at 800gp.
Walter_O_Dim 05-04-08, 08:56 PM	In the absence of this thread, consider this: What you have to bear in mind is that you have to feed, clothe and house your slaves. Hence a slave probably costs around half of what a commoner would cost. A skilled slave would cost more because you really need to keep them relatively happy (or terrified) to turn out good work. Also bear in mind that slaves are sold according to their apparent value, not their actual value. A slave can make themselves a bargain by concealing their skills from bad owners, and revealing them to good ones. The downside of this is that they may end up stuck stone-breaking or rowing in a galley where there is no opportunity to show their abilities and improve their lot. So the primary factors on a slave's value are: Attitude Health & Age Appearance or Skills Experience level doesn't really come into it, save insofar as it effects skills. Attitude has a big effect - no point buying a slave with good skills if they are likely to try and escape, or don't want to use them, or can't be trusted (if they are a criminal, for example). Appearance is a variable - if you want a skilled engraver then looks don't matter, if you want a bed-warmer, they are paramount. So I would guess, to get the value of a slave make the base cost 3gp+1gp per skill level (or positive charisma modifier, or both) desired. Add or subtract the Con modifier to this. Age will add fifty percent if Young Adult, subtract twenty five percent for each age category over this. If the attitude of the slave is unfriendly or worse, then skills become irrelevant (although appearance may still be). If a slave wants to impress with their skills they need to make a Craft or Profession (or a Bluff) check on the relevant skill (for a fighting slave, like a gladiator, make on their attack bonus) against an assessor's Sense Motive skill. Upkeep will be double this for a year. Use of Intimidate or other skills on your slaves may improve their Attitude - one reason slavers tend to be nasty. Slave economies tend to be poor. The reason for this is that slavery stifles wealth - a slave has almost no disposable income, so no money to put back into circulation. When slavery is common, it can both underpin and restrict an economy. What about for different species? elves live longer and have useful racial traits, orcs are stronger and can carry more, halfling are shorter and weaker so generally less desirable unless skilled? or if the slave is sick or weak and is therefore worth less (this I don't think was covered in the original thread I'm looking for)? or differeing values for men and women and then for better or worse looking women (something I won't put in my campaign)? And even higher ability scores in humans are worthy of a higher price, a stronger slave can carry more and does more damage with a weapon. For example, if I wanted a bedwarmer slave girl with 20's for every stat it would cost 185 Gp and double that in upkeep for the next year, which is 555 Gp in total. (I hope I used your system right) which means the PC's could create a small army (50) of these characters at fifth level and still equip themselves, that would make them nearly unstoppable, unless as DM I rule that they're not allowed to do it and I don't want to limit my PC's actions like that. Although I do like the price adjustment for age category, it's something that kismet's guide doesn't have, and it looks like her guides the best I'll get in place of the one I first found
Walter_O_Dim 05-04-08, 09:08 PM	Also, I think the first guide I found was posted before all that stuff with gleemax, would that make a difference in finding it?
Sarella Starshine 05-04-08, 10:10 PM	if the thread was in the mature forums, then you will not be able to access it unless you enter your birthdate into your profile and hope you are over 18. (if you have done that and cannot access it, it is because when they take the servers down for maintence is when they do the mature access stuff)
kelvinaw273 05-05-08, 04:58 AM	What about for different species? elves live longer and have useful racial traits, orcs are stronger and can carry more, halfling are shorter and weaker so generally less desirable unless skilled? or if the slave is sick or weak and is therefore worth less (this I don't think was covered in the original thread I'm looking for)? or differeing values for men and women and then for better or worse looking women (something I won't put in my campaign)? And even higher ability scores in humans are worthy of a higher price, a stronger slave can carry more and does more damage with a weapon. For example, if I wanted a bedwarmer slave girl with 20's for every stat it would cost 185 Gp and double that in upkeep for the next year, which is 555 Gp in total. (I hope I used your system right) which means the PC's could create a small army (50) of these characters at fifth level and still equip themselves, that would make them nearly unstoppable, unless as DM I rule that they're not allowed to do it and I don't want to limit my PC's actions like that. Although I do like the price adjustment for age category, it's something that kismet's guide doesn't have, and it looks like her guides the best I'll get in place of the one I first found Availability will effect price ... if you want a strong slave treat the strength bonus as the skill in question, for all slaves con is factored (how healthy they are) but an obviously sick slave will fetch less. If you can FIND a person with 20's in each stat, good for you. Finding one person with a 20 charisma isn't easy, and what you have to bear in mind is that slaves are not like mass-produced commodities. Just because player characters have the money does not mean the goods are available. In fact, the same goes for any other non-mass produced commodity (and in a non-industrial society, that's just about everything). Finding commoners with a 12 in a stat and a single skill point is easy. Finding an expert with a 16 in a single stat would be a one-in-a-hundred slave. An 18 would be one-in-a-thousand. If the slave auctioneer only has fifty slaves up for sale ... what are your odds? Not good. I know it upsets some Players when you explain to them that sorry, they may have ten thousand gold pieces, but there just isn't any of what they want for sale, but that's the way the world is.
Walter_O_Dim 05-05-08, 09:33 AM	I just don't want to work out how many of the hundred slaves available have a slave with a given stat score
Ash2Dust 05-05-08, 10:43 AM	If you can FIND a person with 20's in each stat, good for you. Finding one person with a 20 charisma isn't easy, and what you have to bear in mind is that slaves are not like mass-produced commodities. Just because player characters have the money does not mean the goods are available. In fact, the same goes for any other non-mass produced commodity (and in a non-industrial society, that's just about everything). Not to mention that anything with all 20's, or even one 20 and the rest falling into average range, has likely long since made his way out of slavery somehow and taken up adventuring.