Could this team live? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Could this team live? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Aphota_Hellsbrother
02-16-07, 08:11 PM Lvl.22 Human Swashbuckler
Lvl.10 Human Overdrive Master
Lvl.6 Githzerai Ranger
Lvl.4 Half-Dragon Aasimar Ninja
Lvl.4 Half-Celestial Gnome Druid
Lvl.3 Hound Archon Knight
Lvl.3 Elder Grey Elf of Legend Sorcerer
VS
Great Wrym White Dragon

Odd team I know, but I need to know, seeing as that situation could occur quite soon in my game.
Always-Late
02-16-07, 08:14 PM Can you give us the CRs and ECLs on them? Hit Dice are useful.

If anybody has a gross LA without the hit die to go with it, they'r toast.
mkill
02-16-07, 09:00 PM Mhh, I guess they better find a smart way to deal with the dragon, I'd suggest trickery and negotiation. They wouldn't survive a direct attack, except the swashbuckler. But a swashy is not enough to kill a dragon, I fear.
DemonDavyJones
02-16-07, 09:39 PM Ingredients:
Decanter of Endless Water
+1 Shocking Sword
Some Copper
Armor of Electricity Resistance (Doesn't have to be improved or greater)
Soverign Glue
Scroll of Wall of Stone
Scroll of Delayed Blast Fireball (Must be delayed blast)
Either A. Some more soverign glue or B. Scroll of Teleport Object

Prep:
1. Go in and set up the shocking sword by the Decanter, and wire the copper from the sword to the armor, making an infinite battery.
2. Turn on decanter, creating infinite electrolosis.
3. Seal up the dragon's cave/residence so it fills up with hydrogen and oxygen. (Quickly, before he realizes you're on to him!)
4. Either A. Leave a hole through which the Delayed Blast Fireball will be launched, or B. Ready the Teleport Object, depending on if you chose A or B on the ingredients list.
5. Either fire the fireball (set to blow after a few rounds) through the crack and seal it with soverign glue (or something else) or launch the fireball into the square next to you and Teleport Object it into the building.
6. Run away as fast as you can and don't look back.
7. Enjoy fireworks as the fireball blows the cave and the surrounding area into a parking lot by burning the hydrogen.
8. Collect XP and level up.

My Real Answer:

Some more info would be helpful. I don't own anything but the core 3 and MM2, and no one I play with has much else, so I'm not familiar with the Overdrive Master, what exactly does it do? I know of what everything else is capable of except for the swashbuckler, which I get a general idea of by the name :P . In any case, unless the Overdrive Master is Wizard's way of making the Frenzied Berserker more acceptable as a PC class, I don't think you'll be winning a straight-up fight barring several max-damage crits for you, several natural 1's by the dragon, and maybe a healthy dose of orbital bombardment. If you have to fight and not negotiate, the ninja should be helpful for wearing the dragon down, I forget what level they get Etheral Strike at, but I think yours should have it. If you have time before the battle, invest in some powerful one-use or charged items if you can, say, a scroll of some sort of maximized fire spell, probably Fireball or DBF. Attack with an opening volley, buffed up with Resist Energy and the like, cast Obscuring mist, get the heck out, and repeat. Focus on surviving, not killing. Get in, deal damage, get out. Use Pass Without Trace if you have to. If possible, hire some mercenaries to assist with arrows. If you have the money, possibly pool for some kind of high-level damaging scroll, preferably with a Reflex save. Dragons hate reflex saves. You could also use scrolls of Transmute Rock to Mud to collapse the dragon's cave somewhat, which may be more cost-effective, because it deals less damage than higher level scrolls, but costs exponentially less.

But, if you don't have any real time to prepare for the fight, I would need to know more specifics about you group before figuring any other tactics out. Preferably more about the situation as well. Fighting a white dragon on a featureless plain is very different than fighting the same dragon in a hilly arctic wasteland full of valleys.
swallowyersoul
02-16-07, 09:42 PM the swashbuckler and overdrive master will survive the first round of combat.

the others, though they have strong LA, won't have the hit points or saves to make it through the first blast of great white wyrm frosty goodness. jeez, some might even succumb to the dragon awe before being nuked from orbit.

the remaining two will be no match for the dragon without support. neither has the AC to resist any attacks, even with power attack penalties.

the team will get slaughtered.
Seeker95
02-16-07, 10:10 PM Not if your DM plays the dragon with even a hint of the tactical advantages it would have. As swallow said, all but the first two are dead in round one.
Aphota_Hellsbrother
02-17-07, 06:47 PM Yeah... this team doesn't have much of a chance.
So I made an adjustment.
Lvl.22 Swashbuckler -> Lvl.20 Swashbuckler / Lvl.5 Tempest
I did a test fight between just the Swashbuckling Tempest and Mr. Great Wyrm White Dragon.
Here's how it went: In about 3 turns, Swashy Lobbed it's head off with his +5 Vorpal Rapier, but I continued the fight just in case. Around turn 7 I got a huge crit which dealt 100+ damage so that was useful. Turn 9 Lobbed it's head off again, still continued. Dragon dead by turn 10.
So the Swashbuckler Tempest is able to take him on his own, and can survive an onslaught as well, seeing as he has DR 30 from Cold, renbering the Dragon's breath attack useless (against him anyway) and even survived 4 full attacks taking only 117 damage in total.
So everything should go smoothl, but I'll try a test fight with them all soon, in case half of them die, which would be annoying, seeing as most of them are outsiders so reviving them would be a bother.
Zoycitenega
02-17-07, 07:47 PM Yes. The team could retreat.

There's a possibility of winning in the fact that White Dragons are the weakest dragons. Great Wyrms have a CR of 21. You should buy some scrolls of immunity to energy, and equip the team with them(especially the lower levels). Also, make sure your weapons deal fire damage and are magical. You should probably equip the lower level ones(who have little chance of overcoming AC) with wands of Scorching Ray. This is a ranged touch attack with no saving throw. If there's anyone in the party who is particularly useless, you might set them up with healing scrolls/oils/or potions to be the healer.

All in all, this is going to cost a bit of money.
* Scrolls of Immunity from Energy are going to be between 1000-2100 each.
* Each wand is going to be up to 16,500 gp(if you want to have the 12d6 points of fire damage/each)
* And then stuff for healing.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Aphota_Hellsbrother 02-16-07, 08:11 PM	Lvl.22 Human Swashbuckler Lvl.10 Human Overdrive Master Lvl.6 Githzerai Ranger Lvl.4 Half-Dragon Aasimar Ninja Lvl.4 Half-Celestial Gnome Druid Lvl.3 Hound Archon Knight Lvl.3 Elder Grey Elf of Legend Sorcerer VS Great Wrym White Dragon Odd team I know, but I need to know, seeing as that situation could occur quite soon in my game.
Always-Late 02-16-07, 08:14 PM	Can you give us the CRs and ECLs on them? Hit Dice are useful. If anybody has a gross LA without the hit die to go with it, they'r toast.
mkill 02-16-07, 09:00 PM	Mhh, I guess they better find a smart way to deal with the dragon, I'd suggest trickery and negotiation. They wouldn't survive a direct attack, except the swashbuckler. But a swashy is not enough to kill a dragon, I fear.
DemonDavyJones 02-16-07, 09:39 PM	Ingredients: Decanter of Endless Water +1 Shocking Sword Some Copper Armor of Electricity Resistance (Doesn't have to be improved or greater) Soverign Glue Scroll of Wall of Stone Scroll of Delayed Blast Fireball (Must be delayed blast) Either A. Some more soverign glue or B. Scroll of Teleport Object Prep: 1. Go in and set up the shocking sword by the Decanter, and wire the copper from the sword to the armor, making an infinite battery. 2. Turn on decanter, creating infinite electrolosis. 3. Seal up the dragon's cave/residence so it fills up with hydrogen and oxygen. (Quickly, before he realizes you're on to him!) 4. Either A. Leave a hole through which the Delayed Blast Fireball will be launched, or B. Ready the Teleport Object, depending on if you chose A or B on the ingredients list. 5. Either fire the fireball (set to blow after a few rounds) through the crack and seal it with soverign glue (or something else) or launch the fireball into the square next to you and Teleport Object it into the building. 6. Run away as fast as you can and don't look back. 7. Enjoy fireworks as the fireball blows the cave and the surrounding area into a parking lot by burning the hydrogen. 8. Collect XP and level up. My Real Answer: Some more info would be helpful. I don't own anything but the core 3 and MM2, and no one I play with has much else, so I'm not familiar with the Overdrive Master, what exactly does it do? I know of what everything else is capable of except for the swashbuckler, which I get a general idea of by the name :P . In any case, unless the Overdrive Master is Wizard's way of making the Frenzied Berserker more acceptable as a PC class, I don't think you'll be winning a straight-up fight barring several max-damage crits for you, several natural 1's by the dragon, and maybe a healthy dose of orbital bombardment. If you have to fight and not negotiate, the ninja should be helpful for wearing the dragon down, I forget what level they get Etheral Strike at, but I think yours should have it. If you have time before the battle, invest in some powerful one-use or charged items if you can, say, a scroll of some sort of maximized fire spell, probably Fireball or DBF. Attack with an opening volley, buffed up with Resist Energy and the like, cast Obscuring mist, get the heck out, and repeat. Focus on surviving, not killing. Get in, deal damage, get out. Use Pass Without Trace if you have to. If possible, hire some mercenaries to assist with arrows. If you have the money, possibly pool for some kind of high-level damaging scroll, preferably with a Reflex save. Dragons hate reflex saves. You could also use scrolls of Transmute Rock to Mud to collapse the dragon's cave somewhat, which may be more cost-effective, because it deals less damage than higher level scrolls, but costs exponentially less. But, if you don't have any real time to prepare for the fight, I would need to know more specifics about you group before figuring any other tactics out. Preferably more about the situation as well. Fighting a white dragon on a featureless plain is very different than fighting the same dragon in a hilly arctic wasteland full of valleys.
swallowyersoul 02-16-07, 09:42 PM	the swashbuckler and overdrive master will survive the first round of combat. the others, though they have strong LA, won't have the hit points or saves to make it through the first blast of great white wyrm frosty goodness. jeez, some might even succumb to the dragon awe before being nuked from orbit. the remaining two will be no match for the dragon without support. neither has the AC to resist any attacks, even with power attack penalties. the team will get slaughtered.
Seeker95 02-16-07, 10:10 PM	Not if your DM plays the dragon with even a hint of the tactical advantages it would have. As swallow said, all but the first two are dead in round one.
Aphota_Hellsbrother 02-17-07, 06:47 PM	Yeah... this team doesn't have much of a chance. So I made an adjustment. Lvl.22 Swashbuckler -> Lvl.20 Swashbuckler / Lvl.5 Tempest I did a test fight between just the Swashbuckling Tempest and Mr. Great Wyrm White Dragon. Here's how it went: In about 3 turns, Swashy Lobbed it's head off with his +5 Vorpal Rapier, but I continued the fight just in case. Around turn 7 I got a huge crit which dealt 100+ damage so that was useful. Turn 9 Lobbed it's head off again, still continued. Dragon dead by turn 10. So the Swashbuckler Tempest is able to take him on his own, and can survive an onslaught as well, seeing as he has DR 30 from Cold, renbering the Dragon's breath attack useless (against him anyway) and even survived 4 full attacks taking only 117 damage in total. So everything should go smoothl, but I'll try a test fight with them all soon, in case half of them die, which would be annoying, seeing as most of them are outsiders so reviving them would be a bother.
Zoycitenega 02-17-07, 07:47 PM	Yes. The team could retreat. There's a possibility of winning in the fact that White Dragons are the weakest dragons. Great Wyrms have a CR of 21. You should buy some scrolls of immunity to energy, and equip the team with them(especially the lower levels). Also, make sure your weapons deal fire damage and are magical. You should probably equip the lower level ones(who have little chance of overcoming AC) with wands of Scorching Ray. This is a ranged touch attack with no saving throw. If there's anyone in the party who is particularly useless, you might set them up with healing scrolls/oils/or potions to be the healer. All in all, this is going to cost a bit of money. * Scrolls of Immunity from Energy are going to be between 1000-2100 each. * Each wand is going to be up to 16,500 gp(if you want to have the 12d6 points of fire damage/each) * And then stuff for healing.