Coup De Grace and Grappling [Archive] - Wizards Community

Coup De Grace and Grappling [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
-Shade-
10-06-05, 02:45 PM I have a question. Can a coup de grace be initiated in a grapple? If so, what conditions must be meet?

The reason I ask is because of a prestige class variant i'm trying to make. I want to improve an assassin's ability to coup de grace a person on a grapple.
Purkake
10-06-05, 03:07 PM Well you can only CdG helpless people. Grappling helpless people doesn't have much of a point... So well that class would not work RAW...
IceFractal
10-06-05, 03:13 PM Well, if you knock them out (via damage or a feat like Choke Hold), then they'd be helpless and you could CdG them, but just having them pinned doesn't make them helpless.
Longarms
10-06-05, 03:18 PM "but just having them pinned doesn't make them helpless."

Does having them pinned make them helpless with respect to a person not involved in the grapple?
Purkake
10-06-05, 03:24 PM Well, it's for the DM to decide if it counts as "[...]otherwise at your mercy[...]" part of CdG.
Lord Ian Stark
10-06-05, 04:40 PM No sir. A CdG by RAW is not allowed on a pinned character. I'm at work so I can't post the exact line. A person pinned is not helpless (To anyone enemy) and therefore does not qualify for a CdG.

Especially not if you are thinking of making a character that can grapple and CdG by himself. A CdG is a full round action and during a grapple you are limited to doing a few things while grappling. A CdG is not one of them.
Longarms
10-07-05, 12:28 AM "A CdG by RAW is not allowed on a pinned character."

You are right. PHB says pinned characters are held immoble but are not helpless.

That begs the question, how is an immoble character not helpless? What can an immoble character do that a helpless character could not? Use harsh language?
BlaineTog
10-07-05, 12:32 AM "A CdG by RAW is not allowed on a pinned character."

You are right. PHB says pinned characters are held immoble but are not helpless.

That begs the question, how is an immoble character not helpless? What can an immoble character do that a helpless character could not? Use harsh language?Maybe twitch his head, thrash around, etc.
Tyler Do'Urden
10-07-05, 12:36 AM 1) He's not completely immoble, not like full-body paralysis, he's just not going anywhere this round unless the pin is broken.
2) If you're pinned in a grapple, the guy pinning you can't coup de grace because he's spending each round pinning you. Even if the guy had Death Blow, pinning you and... I guess coup-ing de grace, would be two standard actions.
3) Other people can't coup de grace you because there's a guy in the way; the one pinning you.

It's really tough to try and verbify a phrase like coup de grace. Plus every time I read it, I hear "Hercule" from DBZ Budokai mispronouncing it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
-Shade- 10-06-05, 02:45 PM	I have a question. Can a coup de grace be initiated in a grapple? If so, what conditions must be meet? The reason I ask is because of a prestige class variant i'm trying to make. I want to improve an assassin's ability to coup de grace a person on a grapple.
Purkake 10-06-05, 03:07 PM	Well you can only CdG helpless people. Grappling helpless people doesn't have much of a point... So well that class would not work RAW...
IceFractal 10-06-05, 03:13 PM	Well, if you knock them out (via damage or a feat like Choke Hold), then they'd be helpless and you could CdG them, but just having them pinned doesn't make them helpless.
Longarms 10-06-05, 03:18 PM	"but just having them pinned doesn't make them helpless." Does having them pinned make them helpless with respect to a person not involved in the grapple?
Purkake 10-06-05, 03:24 PM	Well, it's for the DM to decide if it counts as "[...]otherwise at your mercy[...]" part of CdG.
Lord Ian Stark 10-06-05, 04:40 PM	No sir. A CdG by RAW is not allowed on a pinned character. I'm at work so I can't post the exact line. A person pinned is not helpless (To anyone enemy) and therefore does not qualify for a CdG. Especially not if you are thinking of making a character that can grapple and CdG by himself. A CdG is a full round action and during a grapple you are limited to doing a few things while grappling. A CdG is not one of them.
Longarms 10-07-05, 12:28 AM	"A CdG by RAW is not allowed on a pinned character." You are right. PHB says pinned characters are held immoble but are not helpless. That begs the question, how is an immoble character not helpless? What can an immoble character do that a helpless character could not? Use harsh language?
BlaineTog 10-07-05, 12:32 AM	"A CdG by RAW is not allowed on a pinned character." You are right. PHB says pinned characters are held immoble but are not helpless. That begs the question, how is an immoble character not helpless? What can an immoble character do that a helpless character could not? Use harsh language?Maybe twitch his head, thrash around, etc.
Tyler Do'Urden 10-07-05, 12:36 AM	1) He's not completely immoble, not like full-body paralysis, he's just not going anywhere this round unless the pin is broken. 2) If you're pinned in a grapple, the guy pinning you can't coup de grace because he's spending each round pinning you. Even if the guy had Death Blow, pinning you and... I guess coup-ing de grace, would be two standard actions. 3) Other people can't coup de grace you because there's a guy in the way; the one pinning you. It's really tough to try and verbify a phrase like coup de grace. Plus every time I read it, I hear "Hercule" from DBZ Budokai mispronouncing it.