Coup de Grace [Archive] - Wizards Community

Coup de Grace [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
vegeta7835
01-05-06, 06:09 PM When a character does this technique can they combine that with the Power Attack feat (smite evil too?)?

I was wondering because I was reading the action and it describes it as an "attack", so I would think that naturally any attack could use Power Attack. However, since it automatically hits the target (with an auto-critical too) I was wondering if special techniques can be applied when using a coup de grace.
Dhavaer
01-05-06, 06:17 PM Sure. Power Attack + Coup de Grace = death. Then again, Coup de Grace = death anyway. Power Attack is just that little extra insurance that your 'friend's' Frenzied Berserker dies in its sleep.
Eerongal
01-05-06, 06:26 PM Coup de Grace

As a full-round action, you can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace to a helpless opponent. You can also use a bow or crossbow, provided you are adjacent to the target.

You automatically hit and score a critical hit. If the defender survives the damage, he must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + damage dealt) or die. A rogue also gets her extra sneak attack damage against a helpless opponent when delivering a coup de grace.

Delivering a coup de grace provokes attacks of opportunity from threatening opponents.

You can’t deliver a coup de grace against a creature that is immune to critical hits. You can deliver a coup de grace against a creature with total concealment, but doing this requires two consecutive full-round actions (one to "find" the creature once you’ve determined what square it’s in, and one to deliver the coup de grace).

Nowhere in there do i see it saying that a coup de grace is an "attack", just a full round action. So ultimately, no, i would say you cannot
Rocketboy13
01-05-06, 06:35 PM Nowhere in there do i see it saying that a coup de grace is an "attack", just a full round action. So ultimately, no, i would say you cannot
While the word attack is not specificly used the fact that words hit and critical are both mentioned and sneak dice count as well it would not be out of line to say that you could use power attack to add your attack bonus to the damage dealt, and for factoring the possible following save. :)
Eerongal
01-05-06, 06:47 PM Just because its subject to sneak attack doesn't mean its subject to power attack. Personally, i dont see why you wouldnt be able to house rule it, but im just saying that by the RAW, it would seem that you can't do it.
IceFractal
01-05-06, 07:10 PM Power Attack does not say you have to make an attack. You can declare power attack on a round that you don't actually attack in and it will still apply to melee damage that's not an attack, such as Coup de Grace. You can also declare Power Attack while grappling (which is a pretty good idea, since you don't have to make attack rolls to do damage).
WayneTheGame
01-05-06, 07:41 PM I see absolutely no reason why Power Attack couldn't be used in conjunction with a Coup de Grace. Saying it doesn't apply is reading too much into the exact wording of the rules, methinks.

As an aside, I never understood why Coup de Grace actually did DAMAGE. In my group, we usually houserule that it's an instant kill; don't bother to roll the damage.
Tyler Do'Urden
01-05-06, 07:52 PM Yes you can Power Attack on a coup de grace. In fact since you automatically hit, you can PA your entire base attack bonus. Don't forget to weild whatever weapon you're using in two hands so you get a 2:1 ratio.

Coup de Grace is supposed to [hugging] kill you, people. The Fort save is there because sometimes the damage by itself doesn't do it.
alastor_t13
01-28-06, 07:32 PM coup de grace doesn't always mean "instant kill"
Ex: a kobold(lvl1) with a simple dagger sneaked to a massive red dragon(don't know if it's immune to crit' - so let's say it's not) and makes a coupe de grace. I don't know about you but i don't know how he could kill red dragon with one him blow. i mean a red has 600+ HP and AC 41+ not to meantion it's size. so don't sometimes ou have to role dmg and fort save
Gnome_Dragon_Disciple
01-28-06, 07:40 PM As an aside, I never understood why Coup de Grace actually did DAMAGE. In my group, we usually houserule that it's an instant kill; don't bother to roll the damage.
The save represents situations where you have someone savagely beaten and kicked when they're down (the coup de grace) but pull through in spite of being left for dead.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
vegeta7835 01-05-06, 06:09 PM	When a character does this technique can they combine that with the Power Attack feat (smite evil too?)? I was wondering because I was reading the action and it describes it as an "attack", so I would think that naturally any attack could use Power Attack. However, since it automatically hits the target (with an auto-critical too) I was wondering if special techniques can be applied when using a coup de grace.
Dhavaer 01-05-06, 06:17 PM	Sure. Power Attack + Coup de Grace = death. Then again, Coup de Grace = death anyway. Power Attack is just that little extra insurance that your 'friend's' Frenzied Berserker dies in its sleep.
Eerongal 01-05-06, 06:26 PM	Coup de Grace As a full-round action, you can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace to a helpless opponent. You can also use a bow or crossbow, provided you are adjacent to the target. You automatically hit and score a critical hit. If the defender survives the damage, he must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + damage dealt) or die. A rogue also gets her extra sneak attack damage against a helpless opponent when delivering a coup de grace. Delivering a coup de grace provokes attacks of opportunity from threatening opponents. You can’t deliver a coup de grace against a creature that is immune to critical hits. You can deliver a coup de grace against a creature with total concealment, but doing this requires two consecutive full-round actions (one to "find" the creature once you’ve determined what square it’s in, and one to deliver the coup de grace). Nowhere in there do i see it saying that a coup de grace is an "attack", just a full round action. So ultimately, no, i would say you cannot
Rocketboy13 01-05-06, 06:35 PM	Nowhere in there do i see it saying that a coup de grace is an "attack", just a full round action. So ultimately, no, i would say you cannot While the word attack is not specificly used the fact that words hit and critical are both mentioned and sneak dice count as well it would not be out of line to say that you could use power attack to add your attack bonus to the damage dealt, and for factoring the possible following save. :)
Eerongal 01-05-06, 06:47 PM	Just because its subject to sneak attack doesn't mean its subject to power attack. Personally, i dont see why you wouldnt be able to house rule it, but im just saying that by the RAW, it would seem that you can't do it.
IceFractal 01-05-06, 07:10 PM	Power Attack does not say you have to make an attack. You can declare power attack on a round that you don't actually attack in and it will still apply to melee damage that's not an attack, such as Coup de Grace. You can also declare Power Attack while grappling (which is a pretty good idea, since you don't have to make attack rolls to do damage).
WayneTheGame 01-05-06, 07:41 PM	I see absolutely no reason why Power Attack couldn't be used in conjunction with a Coup de Grace. Saying it doesn't apply is reading too much into the exact wording of the rules, methinks. As an aside, I never understood why Coup de Grace actually did DAMAGE. In my group, we usually houserule that it's an instant kill; don't bother to roll the damage.
Tyler Do'Urden 01-05-06, 07:52 PM	Yes you can Power Attack on a coup de grace. In fact since you automatically hit, you can PA your entire base attack bonus. Don't forget to weild whatever weapon you're using in two hands so you get a 2:1 ratio. Coup de Grace is supposed to [hugging] kill you, people. The Fort save is there because sometimes the damage by itself doesn't do it.
alastor_t13 01-28-06, 07:32 PM	coup de grace doesn't always mean "instant kill" Ex: a kobold(lvl1) with a simple dagger sneaked to a massive red dragon(don't know if it's immune to crit' - so let's say it's not) and makes a coupe de grace. I don't know about you but i don't know how he could kill red dragon with one him blow. i mean a red has 600+ HP and AC 41+ not to meantion it's size. so don't sometimes ou have to role dmg and fort save
Gnome_Dragon_Disciple 01-28-06, 07:40 PM	As an aside, I never understood why Coup de Grace actually did DAMAGE. In my group, we usually houserule that it's an instant kill; don't bother to roll the damage. The save represents situations where you have someone savagely beaten and kicked when they're down (the coup de grace) but pull through in spite of being left for dead.