CR not broken [Archive] - Wizards Community

CR not broken [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
swallowyersoul
02-16-07, 09:29 PM so i've read a lot on the boards about how CR is broken, or CR isn't a valuable tool, or about CR 'suxxors', etc.

truth is, CR is a valuable tool and if used right is quite accurate.

the key to using CR right is to bear in mind what it measures: the power of a critter relative to other critters

now, the intent was to measure the power of a critter relative to the PCS, and that didn't work out so well. too many variables for that to work: combination of classes, feat selection, player skill, ability scores, etc. CR 8 doesn't always mean it's an appropriate encounter for a party of 8th level characters.

CR 8 does mean the critter is approximately the same power level as other CR 8 critters, somewhat less powerful than CR 9 critters and a lot more powerful than CR 5 critters.

as the DM, it's your job to figure out how powerful your character party really is. for example, in a recent campaign i had a cleric and a bard on the team -- their buffers worked together and made the whole party about two levels higher than normal in terms of combat effectiveness. bard died and was replaced by a paladin. suddenly, the party is a level lower just 'cos they lost inspire courage.

anyways, CR is just fine if you keep in mind what it measures. admittedly, that's not what it was supposed to measure, or even what the rules say it measures, but still it's a powerful and valuable tool.
Seeker95
02-16-07, 10:08 PM truth is, CR is a valuable tool and if used right is quite accurate.You surely must realize that you are asking an awful lot of some people on the Boards. :devil:
Prince_of_Murder_Kinghall
02-16-07, 11:56 PM So is my MM missing some text on the Grick? why does it have a CR of 3?
swallowyersoul
02-17-07, 01:26 AM You surely must realize that you are asking an awful lot of some people on the Boards. :devil:

that's a good point. but then i've always been lawful optimistic.
Dhavaer
02-17-07, 02:51 AM So is my MM missing some text on the Grick? why does it have a CR of 3?

High DR and lots of attacks in my guess.
Prince_of_Murder_Kinghall
02-17-07, 03:43 AM Ill have to find my book again but it had hardly any HP or DR (if it had any...) or much attack power.
Daydreamer
02-17-07, 03:54 AM its not fixed either, it requires alot of management on behalf of the dm.

both in terms of keeping pcs at the right item range, and in terms of using the monsters effectively.
Dhavaer
02-17-07, 03:58 AM Ill have to find my book again but it had hardly any HP or DR (if it had any...) or much attack power.

It has barely any hp, you're right (only 9) but DR 10/magic and 5 melee attacks. Against a sor/wiz with a damage spell, it'll die very quickly, but against a fighter it could last a while if they don't have a magic weapon.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
swallowyersoul 02-16-07, 09:29 PM	so i've read a lot on the boards about how CR is broken, or CR isn't a valuable tool, or about CR 'suxxors', etc. truth is, CR is a valuable tool and if used right is quite accurate. the key to using CR right is to bear in mind what it measures: the power of a critter relative to other critters now, the intent was to measure the power of a critter relative to the PCS, and that didn't work out so well. too many variables for that to work: combination of classes, feat selection, player skill, ability scores, etc. CR 8 doesn't always mean it's an appropriate encounter for a party of 8th level characters. CR 8 does mean the critter is approximately the same power level as other CR 8 critters, somewhat less powerful than CR 9 critters and a lot more powerful than CR 5 critters. as the DM, it's your job to figure out how powerful your character party really is. for example, in a recent campaign i had a cleric and a bard on the team -- their buffers worked together and made the whole party about two levels higher than normal in terms of combat effectiveness. bard died and was replaced by a paladin. suddenly, the party is a level lower just 'cos they lost inspire courage. anyways, CR is just fine if you keep in mind what it measures. admittedly, that's not what it was supposed to measure, or even what the rules say it measures, but still it's a powerful and valuable tool.
Seeker95 02-16-07, 10:08 PM	truth is, CR is a valuable tool and if used right is quite accurate.You surely must realize that you are asking an awful lot of some people on the Boards. :devil:
Prince_of_Murder_Kinghall 02-16-07, 11:56 PM	So is my MM missing some text on the Grick? why does it have a CR of 3?
swallowyersoul 02-17-07, 01:26 AM	You surely must realize that you are asking an awful lot of some people on the Boards. :devil: that's a good point. but then i've always been lawful optimistic.
Dhavaer 02-17-07, 02:51 AM	So is my MM missing some text on the Grick? why does it have a CR of 3? High DR and lots of attacks in my guess.
Prince_of_Murder_Kinghall 02-17-07, 03:43 AM	Ill have to find my book again but it had hardly any HP or DR (if it had any...) or much attack power.
Daydreamer 02-17-07, 03:54 AM	its not fixed either, it requires alot of management on behalf of the dm. both in terms of keeping pcs at the right item range, and in terms of using the monsters effectively.
Dhavaer 02-17-07, 03:58 AM	Ill have to find my book again but it had hardly any HP or DR (if it had any...) or much attack power. It has barely any hp, you're right (only 9) but DR 10/magic and 5 melee attacks. Against a sor/wiz with a damage spell, it'll die very quickly, but against a fighter it could last a while if they don't have a magic weapon.