CR of an encounter with wild magic [Archive] - Wizards Community

CR of an encounter with wild magic [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Wynther
07-24-07, 03:38 PM Hi all,

I was hoping you could help me with your opinions on what the CR of an encounter should be. Here is the scenario:

The top level of a tower that was basically one big wild magic zone. Im not familiar with normal wild magic zones but this one forced all casters to roll on the wild surge table for every spell they cast, bringing about all manner of strange effects but not usually the desired spell. There was i think a 4% chance to actually do what you intended, some of those with reduced or increased effects.

Add one shield guardian construct. I think this is CR9 by itself, but im just not sure. This guardian took half of the below referenced spellcasters damage taken. Nickname - "Barbarian Fodder"

Then comes the fun part. Enter the evil drow with 11 or 12 levels of sorcerer (I hate chain lightning). This would not be so bad considering the wild magic zone. Very quickly though, we learned that said wild magic zone only extended 10 feet above the floor of the top floor of the tower, and the drow started with a fly spell active (he'd obviously been tracking our progress) and was therefore completely unaffected until its duration ran out. And then of course it went greater invisible like any good caster. A few chain lightnings and cones of cold later, 2 of our party were down for the count with no available healing or means of dispelling the drows enchantments. Listen or spot checks to try and see or hear the origin of spell effects met with being given a general direction of the origin.

I dont think ive left anything out of that. Anyway, i just wanted some input as to what, in your opinion, the CR of this encounter should be. Thanks!
Geogoose
07-24-07, 03:54 PM A CR 14 and a 9 would be EL 15. The unfavorable terrain could be resolved with an ad hoc EXP bonus of whatever you feel appropriate, probably 15-40% bonus.

Why did the PC's not just go back in the tower and waited out the sorceror's combat buffs?
Wynther
07-24-07, 04:14 PM A few of us thought of that, but we have some characters that do not "run away" from a fight. One of our lower characters only survived because he ran. My character survived on evasion. He attempted to run, but was caught in a wild surge fear effect from a fellow party member who happened to be standing right next to the stairway. He ended up at a full-out run directly away from the only escape for a few rounds.
FaithlessOfLux
07-24-07, 06:08 PM What you're asking us to tell you is that your dm was wrong, and that you died because he put you up against something too strong. Even if he did that's the wrong way to look at it. You have a few options.

1) Run. If your losing a fight don't stick around. Get up and get out.

2) Conditions are unfavorable. Change the terrain. Go down to the floor below, and try to lure the sorcerer away. Without fly spells of your own your much better having both your opponent and you on the same grounds.

3) Stop casting spells! If you have a 4% chance of desired effect, why are you still casting? When your losing don't take losing odds. At least you could've moved your own spellcasters out of the zone. If it only extends to 10 ft I would rather have my spell caster get tossed up in the air or climb something rolling a concentration check then hurting my own teammates.

4) If he's in the air. The first thing you want to do is take away his advantage. Find a way to drag him down stow a few good items with you. The shield guardian should be your second priority, if the evil drow goes down the construct goes down. All you have to do is smash that amulet.

And lastly waiting for a strategic advantage and still fighting is not running away from a fight. You can still be in a fight even if your not going full on aggressive.

So back to the point. If you lose you should not be looking at what you think the DM did wrong. You should be looking at what you could've done better. If you constantly keep dying and your group dynamic has tried ti improved but sees no difference then you should confront your dm. Not ask us how overpowered the fight you think he put against you is.
Wynther
07-24-07, 06:42 PM As much as i love it when people put words in my mouth (mmm, tasty words), I never asked you to tell me my dm was wrong or even implied that he was. It was a genuinely challenging fight. We lost 2 of our number, I survived and reaped the benefits.

I also never asked for your advice about how to overcome such an encounter. We obviously did. We went up against a (relatively) high level spellcaster who was prepared for us, so we expected him to have a few advantages in store. I had fun, even if i was forced to try and retreat. Thanks for the thought though.

What I DID ask, was others opinions on the CR of this particular challenge for my own curiosity, given the extra challenges to overcome during the course of the original battle. If i havent made this clear enough, then i apologize, but I am definitely not blaming the DM for anything, just outlining the circumstances of the fight.

If you have an opinion on the CR of this fight, please feel free to share it. If you want to rant about incapable players and blaming DM's, please take it elsewhere. Thanks!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Wynther 07-24-07, 03:38 PM	Hi all, I was hoping you could help me with your opinions on what the CR of an encounter should be. Here is the scenario: The top level of a tower that was basically one big wild magic zone. Im not familiar with normal wild magic zones but this one forced all casters to roll on the wild surge table for every spell they cast, bringing about all manner of strange effects but not usually the desired spell. There was i think a 4% chance to actually do what you intended, some of those with reduced or increased effects. Add one shield guardian construct. I think this is CR9 by itself, but im just not sure. This guardian took half of the below referenced spellcasters damage taken. Nickname - "Barbarian Fodder" Then comes the fun part. Enter the evil drow with 11 or 12 levels of sorcerer (I hate chain lightning). This would not be so bad considering the wild magic zone. Very quickly though, we learned that said wild magic zone only extended 10 feet above the floor of the top floor of the tower, and the drow started with a fly spell active (he'd obviously been tracking our progress) and was therefore completely unaffected until its duration ran out. And then of course it went greater invisible like any good caster. A few chain lightnings and cones of cold later, 2 of our party were down for the count with no available healing or means of dispelling the drows enchantments. Listen or spot checks to try and see or hear the origin of spell effects met with being given a general direction of the origin. I dont think ive left anything out of that. Anyway, i just wanted some input as to what, in your opinion, the CR of this encounter should be. Thanks!
Geogoose 07-24-07, 03:54 PM	A CR 14 and a 9 would be EL 15. The unfavorable terrain could be resolved with an ad hoc EXP bonus of whatever you feel appropriate, probably 15-40% bonus. Why did the PC's not just go back in the tower and waited out the sorceror's combat buffs?
Wynther 07-24-07, 04:14 PM	A few of us thought of that, but we have some characters that do not "run away" from a fight. One of our lower characters only survived because he ran. My character survived on evasion. He attempted to run, but was caught in a wild surge fear effect from a fellow party member who happened to be standing right next to the stairway. He ended up at a full-out run directly away from the only escape for a few rounds.
FaithlessOfLux 07-24-07, 06:08 PM	What you're asking us to tell you is that your dm was wrong, and that you died because he put you up against something too strong. Even if he did that's the wrong way to look at it. You have a few options. 1) Run. If your losing a fight don't stick around. Get up and get out. 2) Conditions are unfavorable. Change the terrain. Go down to the floor below, and try to lure the sorcerer away. Without fly spells of your own your much better having both your opponent and you on the same grounds. 3) Stop casting spells! If you have a 4% chance of desired effect, why are you still casting? When your losing don't take losing odds. At least you could've moved your own spellcasters out of the zone. If it only extends to 10 ft I would rather have my spell caster get tossed up in the air or climb something rolling a concentration check then hurting my own teammates. 4) If he's in the air. The first thing you want to do is take away his advantage. Find a way to drag him down stow a few good items with you. The shield guardian should be your second priority, if the evil drow goes down the construct goes down. All you have to do is smash that amulet. And lastly waiting for a strategic advantage and still fighting is not running away from a fight. You can still be in a fight even if your not going full on aggressive. So back to the point. If you lose you should not be looking at what you think the DM did wrong. You should be looking at what you could've done better. If you constantly keep dying and your group dynamic has tried ti improved but sees no difference then you should confront your dm. Not ask us how overpowered the fight you think he put against you is.
Wynther 07-24-07, 06:42 PM	As much as i love it when people put words in my mouth (mmm, tasty words), I never asked you to tell me my dm was wrong or even implied that he was. It was a genuinely challenging fight. We lost 2 of our number, I survived and reaped the benefits. I also never asked for your advice about how to overcome such an encounter. We obviously did. We went up against a (relatively) high level spellcaster who was prepared for us, so we expected him to have a few advantages in store. I had fun, even if i was forced to try and retreat. Thanks for the thought though. What I DID ask, was others opinions on the CR of this particular challenge for my own curiosity, given the extra challenges to overcome during the course of the original battle. If i havent made this clear enough, then i apologize, but I am definitely not blaming the DM for anything, just outlining the circumstances of the fight. If you have an opinion on the CR of this fight, please feel free to share it. If you want to rant about incapable players and blaming DM's, please take it elsewhere. Thanks!