Critical Hit Deck! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Critical Hit Deck! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Shubert
08-21-07, 05:32 PM I'm sure most of you have seen it, it's a deck of 52 cards that you can use as a variant to critical hits. I've seen it a couple times and decided to buy it today.

If nobody knows what this is, I'll be happy to tell you all about it, but in case it's well known, I won't give you all a long explaination.

My question is, has anybody used the deck in a game? It's obviously fairly unbalencing, but is it fun? Does it work? Has it ever ruined an encounter? Give me your thoughts on the deck as a implemented variant.
Patrakis
08-21-07, 09:54 PM Hi,

I've used the deck systematically for all criticals since it came out. It replaces the x2 or x3 damage and gives a very wide range of effects. Unbalancing Maybe, but so far, a lot of fun.

There is only one instant death effect that i've seen so far but i didn't read them all.

I'll be certain to pick up the fumble deck when it comes out in january i think. That should spice up combat also :)

Pat
Vharuck
08-21-07, 11:30 PM Just remember that the addition of more random outcomes ultimately punishes the PCs more than NPCs. NPCs are often meant to die after a single encounter; it doesn't matter if they're unceremoniously amputated by a greataxe. However, PCs have this strange tendency to be in every single fight, and if one were to add up the chances of being critically hit and drawing a bad card with how many times they're swung at, bad things happen.

Lop off a kobold's leg, it's funny. Stab a PC's eyes, and you got an instant NPC.
Shubert
08-21-07, 11:39 PM Just remember that the addition of more random outcomes ultimately punishes the PCs more than NPCs. NPCs are often meant to die after a single encounter; it doesn't matter if they're unceremoniously amputated by a greataxe. However, PCs have this strange tendency to be in every single fight, and if one were to add up the chances of being critically hit and drawing a bad card with how many times they're swung at, bad things happen.

Lop off a kobold's leg, it's funny. Stab a PC's eyes, and you got an instant NPC.

Well, I wouldn't use it ON PCs. I don't think it was really meant to be used this way.

Also, I played a blind character once, a blind 15 year old 12th level monk, and though he wasn't quite as powerful as other melee characters, he wasn't unplayable. But I do understand your example.
Adamaro23
08-22-07, 02:19 AM Yes I use the deck. Yes it has made encounters/crits more fun. And no it's never ruined a fight.

The players always love drawing from it. And i've made one exception for NPCs using it; I let every single NPC/monster in the Mournland (eberron) use it.
Shubert
08-22-07, 03:03 AM Yes I use the deck. Yes it has made encounters/crits more fun. And no it's never ruined a fight.

The players always love drawing from it. And i've made one exception for NPCs using it; I let every single NPC/monster in the Mournland (eberron) use it.

Interesting house rule, that definately makes the mournland a place to fear! I'll have to think about that one.
BilopTheFleshwarper
08-22-07, 04:04 AM The critical hit deck is awesome.

It's really the best for weapons that do x2 damage. since higher multiplier just gets you more draws, and most of the cards are x2 damage and something else. It reallyu varies from player to player, archers can get some nice results but I standardly prefer the x3 damage instead.

As far as monsters using the deck, I prefer the option that only the bosses, get to use the deck. otherwise low level encounters with lots of mooks become too serious of a threat.
Prince_of_Murder_Kinghall
08-22-07, 04:32 AM I always wanted to use it for one of those low magic but really deadly games.
BilopTheFleshwarper
08-22-07, 06:54 AM give everyone +20hp's at first level and never pull a punch... Hackmaster style.
Seeker95
08-22-07, 08:38 AM Well, I wouldn't use it ON PCs. I don't think it was really meant to be used this way.It was meant to be used in this way, if it is used at all. The critical hit deck is a two-way street. Using it on the NPCs but not the PCs is unfair, and using on the PCs at all is dangerous.

Use this wonderful gift with caution. It carries much of the same risks as a Deck of Many Things.
Shubert
08-22-07, 03:59 PM It was meant to be used in this way, if it is used at all. The critical hit deck is a two-way street. Using it on the NPCs but not the PCs is unfair, and using on the PCs at all is dangerous.

Use this wonderful gift with caution. It carries much of the same risks as a Deck of Many Things.

I really don't think that's true. That's like (if you play Eberron) giving your NPCs action points. Heroic things (like action points and the critical hit deck) should be given to heroic characters. If it makes the PCs a little more deadly, then make the encounters a bit harder. But like Vharuck said, you slash out a PCs eyes, they're generally not going to be very happy.
Seeker95
08-22-07, 04:13 PM I really don't think that's true.It is true. Straight from the horse's mouth (http://paizo.com/gameMastery/accessories/v5748btpy7wv9):

Tired of the same old double damage? Wouldn't you rather chop your opponent's head off in one clean swing or put an arrow through his heart? Paizo Publishing presents the GameMastery Critical Hit Deck!

Rolled a critical hit? Draw a card and apply the result! Each of the Critical Hit cards in this 52-card deck has four different results based on weapon type, all of which are compatible with the world's most popular fantasy roleplaying game. Chop off a head, slice through a tendon, poke out an eye—crushing your enemy has never been this much fun.

Usable by experienced GMs and novices alike, this product fits perfectly into any Game Master's arsenal.

In fact, the product was designed as part of the Game Master series, making it less likely a product for PC use (although I doubt that is Paizo's intent).
Shubert
08-22-07, 04:47 PM In any case, I don't think it can only be used one way, or now way at all. If I'm going to be using it, the PCs will be the only ones using them, unless I decide some BBEG gets to. And I think most people would agree with me that that's how they'd use (or do use) it. And like I said, if it gives the players a little more power, just make the encounters a little tougher. I personally think any DM who consistantly uses the deck against his PCs is not going to have a very happy group of players on his hands.
SokenzanMarauder
08-22-07, 05:30 PM snip
:D
http://paizo.com/image/product/secondary/CritHitDeck/chd-rules-01.jpg

They themselves recommend only using it with the 'big bad guys.'

-Gene
SpoonNinja
08-22-07, 06:54 PM What do they mean, must spend a feat?
SokenzanMarauder
08-22-07, 07:39 PM What do they mean, must spend a feat?
It's basically saying that if you want monsters to be able to use this they should lose a feat (or just take a feat named Critical Hit Deck (or something similar)).

-Gene
BilopTheFleshwarper
08-23-07, 02:09 AM The feat bit is just an option to limit it's use on PC's.
mearrin69
08-23-07, 03:20 AM I just ordered this deck tonight (along with a bunch of 2E Planescape PDFs) and can't wait to try it out - though I'll only use it if all of the players want to go that way. I would like to check out the critical fumble deck when it comes out too (had it in my cart then saw the release date - just can't preorder that far in advance).

In one of my games we're using a critical fumble chart but I don't really care for it much (it's a tough one but the players voted it in and I'm not gonna argue if they want to die in amusing ways). Some of the fumbles have been entertaining though. One lightly capable mage type shot her bow (instead of the arrow) at a creature a few sessions ago and the heavy hitter fighter type accidentally tossed his bastard sword through the sorcerer's chest last session. Ack!
M
gixanthrax
08-23-07, 07:14 AM In another system, we used something a little different from that.

After a critical Hit you had to roll % and depending on the outcome you did some extra damage, disarmed you opponent, tripped him or made one of his limbs unusable for quite some time ( something like d20 +5 days).
a result of 95-96 blinded him 97-98 rendered him unconscious, a 100 instant killed.

We also had it for critical failures.

Like : you drop your weapon, you hit your foot, you hit your friend adjacent to you or, on a range of 20% yor weapon was destroyed. If its magical roll a d6. if the result is higher than the combined magical boni, its also destroyed.

And the same for critical success and failure when usig magic.

crit success and a result over 90 %all effects ( range, damage usw. were doubled). Crit failure over 95% Instant death.

And some other niceiteies( change of gender, colour, attrackting butterflie sfor a week...)

It was really fun but sometimes we were really ******.

Like: 1 Magical and 2 MW weapons destroyed, one char only moving at half speed for 14 days, one unable to use his right arm for the same time, the dwarfen wizard having lost his complete body hair and the cleric gone female....
Seeker95
08-23-07, 08:40 AM http://paizo.com/image/product/secondary/CritHitDeck/chd-rules-01.jpgI knew all those card images looked more interesting than I was giving them credit for!
Oxlar
08-23-07, 01:15 PM I've been using Rolemaster's critical charts since the early 90's. Just set the crit classes to equal certain damage ranges and divide all hits in half (round up). Its worked like a charm ever since. And we use it for both PCs and NPCs. For weapons its called Arms and Claw law. For spell crits, the book is called Spell Law. They made another book for other types of energy plus mental stress and martial arts crits as well.
Patrakis
08-23-07, 06:08 PM I personally think any DM who consistantly uses the deck against his PCs is not going to have a very happy group of players on his hands.

My players love it both ways :D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shubert 08-21-07, 05:32 PM	I'm sure most of you have seen it, it's a deck of 52 cards that you can use as a variant to critical hits. I've seen it a couple times and decided to buy it today. If nobody knows what this is, I'll be happy to tell you all about it, but in case it's well known, I won't give you all a long explaination. My question is, has anybody used the deck in a game? It's obviously fairly unbalencing, but is it fun? Does it work? Has it ever ruined an encounter? Give me your thoughts on the deck as a implemented variant.
Patrakis 08-21-07, 09:54 PM	Hi, I've used the deck systematically for all criticals since it came out. It replaces the x2 or x3 damage and gives a very wide range of effects. Unbalancing Maybe, but so far, a lot of fun. There is only one instant death effect that i've seen so far but i didn't read them all. I'll be certain to pick up the fumble deck when it comes out in january i think. That should spice up combat also :) Pat
Vharuck 08-21-07, 11:30 PM	Just remember that the addition of more random outcomes ultimately punishes the PCs more than NPCs. NPCs are often meant to die after a single encounter; it doesn't matter if they're unceremoniously amputated by a greataxe. However, PCs have this strange tendency to be in every single fight, and if one were to add up the chances of being critically hit and drawing a bad card with how many times they're swung at, bad things happen. Lop off a kobold's leg, it's funny. Stab a PC's eyes, and you got an instant NPC.
Shubert 08-21-07, 11:39 PM	Just remember that the addition of more random outcomes ultimately punishes the PCs more than NPCs. NPCs are often meant to die after a single encounter; it doesn't matter if they're unceremoniously amputated by a greataxe. However, PCs have this strange tendency to be in every single fight, and if one were to add up the chances of being critically hit and drawing a bad card with how many times they're swung at, bad things happen. Lop off a kobold's leg, it's funny. Stab a PC's eyes, and you got an instant NPC. Well, I wouldn't use it ON PCs. I don't think it was really meant to be used this way. Also, I played a blind character once, a blind 15 year old 12th level monk, and though he wasn't quite as powerful as other melee characters, he wasn't unplayable. But I do understand your example.
Adamaro23 08-22-07, 02:19 AM	Yes I use the deck. Yes it has made encounters/crits more fun. And no it's never ruined a fight. The players always love drawing from it. And i've made one exception for NPCs using it; I let every single NPC/monster in the Mournland (eberron) use it.
Shubert 08-22-07, 03:03 AM	Yes I use the deck. Yes it has made encounters/crits more fun. And no it's never ruined a fight. The players always love drawing from it. And i've made one exception for NPCs using it; I let every single NPC/monster in the Mournland (eberron) use it. Interesting house rule, that definately makes the mournland a place to fear! I'll have to think about that one.
BilopTheFleshwarper 08-22-07, 04:04 AM	The critical hit deck is awesome. It's really the best for weapons that do x2 damage. since higher multiplier just gets you more draws, and most of the cards are x2 damage and something else. It reallyu varies from player to player, archers can get some nice results but I standardly prefer the x3 damage instead. As far as monsters using the deck, I prefer the option that only the bosses, get to use the deck. otherwise low level encounters with lots of mooks become too serious of a threat.
Prince_of_Murder_Kinghall 08-22-07, 04:32 AM	I always wanted to use it for one of those low magic but really deadly games.
BilopTheFleshwarper 08-22-07, 06:54 AM	give everyone +20hp's at first level and never pull a punch... Hackmaster style.
Seeker95 08-22-07, 08:38 AM	Well, I wouldn't use it ON PCs. I don't think it was really meant to be used this way.It was meant to be used in this way, if it is used at all. The critical hit deck is a two-way street. Using it on the NPCs but not the PCs is unfair, and using on the PCs at all is dangerous. Use this wonderful gift with caution. It carries much of the same risks as a Deck of Many Things.
Shubert 08-22-07, 03:59 PM	It was meant to be used in this way, if it is used at all. The critical hit deck is a two-way street. Using it on the NPCs but not the PCs is unfair, and using on the PCs at all is dangerous. Use this wonderful gift with caution. It carries much of the same risks as a Deck of Many Things. I really don't think that's true. That's like (if you play Eberron) giving your NPCs action points. Heroic things (like action points and the critical hit deck) should be given to heroic characters. If it makes the PCs a little more deadly, then make the encounters a bit harder. But like Vharuck said, you slash out a PCs eyes, they're generally not going to be very happy.
Seeker95 08-22-07, 04:13 PM	I really don't think that's true.It is true. Straight from the horse's mouth (http://paizo.com/gameMastery/accessories/v5748btpy7wv9): Tired of the same old double damage? Wouldn't you rather chop your opponent's head off in one clean swing or put an arrow through his heart? Paizo Publishing presents the GameMastery Critical Hit Deck! Rolled a critical hit? Draw a card and apply the result! Each of the Critical Hit cards in this 52-card deck has four different results based on weapon type, all of which are compatible with the world's most popular fantasy roleplaying game. Chop off a head, slice through a tendon, poke out an eye—crushing your enemy has never been this much fun. Usable by experienced GMs and novices alike, this product fits perfectly into any Game Master's arsenal. In fact, the product was designed as part of the Game Master series, making it less likely a product for PC use (although I doubt that is Paizo's intent).
Shubert 08-22-07, 04:47 PM	In any case, I don't think it can only be used one way, or now way at all. If I'm going to be using it, the PCs will be the only ones using them, unless I decide some BBEG gets to. And I think most people would agree with me that that's how they'd use (or do use) it. And like I said, if it gives the players a little more power, just make the encounters a little tougher. I personally think any DM who consistantly uses the deck against his PCs is not going to have a very happy group of players on his hands.
SokenzanMarauder 08-22-07, 05:30 PM	snip :D http://paizo.com/image/product/secondary/CritHitDeck/chd-rules-01.jpg They themselves recommend only using it with the 'big bad guys.' -Gene
SpoonNinja 08-22-07, 06:54 PM	What do they mean, must spend a feat?
SokenzanMarauder 08-22-07, 07:39 PM	What do they mean, must spend a feat? It's basically saying that if you want monsters to be able to use this they should lose a feat (or just take a feat named Critical Hit Deck (or something similar)). -Gene
BilopTheFleshwarper 08-23-07, 02:09 AM	The feat bit is just an option to limit it's use on PC's.
mearrin69 08-23-07, 03:20 AM	I just ordered this deck tonight (along with a bunch of 2E Planescape PDFs) and can't wait to try it out - though I'll only use it if all of the players want to go that way. I would like to check out the critical fumble deck when it comes out too (had it in my cart then saw the release date - just can't preorder that far in advance). In one of my games we're using a critical fumble chart but I don't really care for it much (it's a tough one but the players voted it in and I'm not gonna argue if they want to die in amusing ways). Some of the fumbles have been entertaining though. One lightly capable mage type shot her bow (instead of the arrow) at a creature a few sessions ago and the heavy hitter fighter type accidentally tossed his bastard sword through the sorcerer's chest last session. Ack! M
gixanthrax 08-23-07, 07:14 AM	In another system, we used something a little different from that. After a critical Hit you had to roll % and depending on the outcome you did some extra damage, disarmed you opponent, tripped him or made one of his limbs unusable for quite some time ( something like d20 +5 days). a result of 95-96 blinded him 97-98 rendered him unconscious, a 100 instant killed. We also had it for critical failures. Like : you drop your weapon, you hit your foot, you hit your friend adjacent to you or, on a range of 20% yor weapon was destroyed. If its magical roll a d6. if the result is higher than the combined magical boni, its also destroyed. And the same for critical success and failure when usig magic. crit success and a result over 90 %all effects ( range, damage usw. were doubled). Crit failure over 95% Instant death. And some other niceiteies( change of gender, colour, attrackting butterflie sfor a week...) It was really fun but sometimes we were really ******. Like: 1 Magical and 2 MW weapons destroyed, one char only moving at half speed for 14 days, one unable to use his right arm for the same time, the dwarfen wizard having lost his complete body hair and the cleric gone female....
Seeker95 08-23-07, 08:40 AM	http://paizo.com/image/product/secondary/CritHitDeck/chd-rules-01.jpgI knew all those card images looked more interesting than I was giving them credit for!
Oxlar 08-23-07, 01:15 PM	I've been using Rolemaster's critical charts since the early 90's. Just set the crit classes to equal certain damage ranges and divide all hits in half (round up). Its worked like a charm ever since. And we use it for both PCs and NPCs. For weapons its called Arms and Claw law. For spell crits, the book is called Spell Law. They made another book for other types of energy plus mental stress and martial arts crits as well.
Patrakis 08-23-07, 06:08 PM	I personally think any DM who consistantly uses the deck against his PCs is not going to have a very happy group of players on his hands. My players love it both ways :D