Criticalhit! :) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Criticalhit! :) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Hadan
03-20-07, 03:12 AM Im playing a character with a crit chance of 15+ with x4 and I want to make use of that as much as possible..
Do you got any ideas on what I can do to make use of my crit as much as possible?

Thanks
bobothechimp
03-20-07, 03:18 AM Greater Truedeath Crystal from Magic Item Compendium allows critical hits against undead creatures.
Ariath Ska'Vhor
03-20-07, 03:35 AM Im playing a character with a crit chance of 15+ with x4 and I want to make use of that as much as possible..
Do you got any ideas on what I can do to make use of my crit as much as possible?

Thanks
Firstly, I'm just curious on how you pulled that one off. But a bit of advice I can give is the Disciple of Dispater class. If you're wielding an iron weapon by I believe 8th level you get three times the crit range that stacks with improved critial (but not keen). One of my favorite uses of this is a greatfalchion (sandstorm) and by DoD 8th level you have a crit range of 9-20.
Archon of Light
03-20-07, 03:37 AM Im playing a character with a crit chance of 15+ with x4 and I want to make use of that as much as possible..
Do you got any ideas on what I can do to make use of my crit as much as possible?

Thanks

Attack creatures with low ACs that are not immune to criticals, and always roll high.

Maybe I'm not understanding the question... :thinks:
bobothechimp
03-20-07, 04:09 AM I would like to know if there is any type of item or enhancement that allows critical hits against creatures normally immune to them.
runestar
03-20-07, 06:54 AM Elemental burst weapon enhancements would still work on creatures immune to crits.:)
Frugal
03-20-07, 09:01 AM Im playing a character with a crit chance of 15+ with x4 and I want to make use of that as much as possible..
Do you got any ideas on what I can do to make use of my crit as much as possible?

Thanks

I'm curious how you pulled this off? x4 crit is normally reserved for weapons with a crit range of 20/x4, so even if you're allowing keen and improved crit to stack (they don't normally) that's still 17-20/x4 tops (and I think the doubling of a doubling rules make it 18-20/x4 instead but I could be wrong).
Tempest Stormwind
03-20-07, 09:14 AM I'd like to know how you're doing it as well -- to my knowledge, it's impossible without busting out 3.0 rules of stacking crit range expanders or the Disciple of Dispater (3.0 BoVD PrC). If you're using the Talenta sharrash, do note that it was changed in errata to a much more reasonable crit rate (although I believe there's a weapon in the MM3 that's similar).

That said, look into the Tome of Battle. Blood in the Water stance + two-weapon fighting (if you have it) + high crit range + high crit multiplier = you are a living cuisinart. (This stance gives you a cumulative +1 to attack and damage rolls for each critical hit you confirm. It resets to 0 if you end the stance or go for one minute without making a crit.)
Frugal
03-20-07, 09:22 AM I'd like to know how you're doing it as well -- to my knowledge, it's impossible without busting out 3.0 rules of stacking crit range expanders or the Disciple of Dispater (3.0 BoVD PrC). If you're using the Talenta sharrash, do note that it was changed in errata to a much more reasonable crit rate (although I believe there's a weapon in the MM3 that's similar).

It's probably the Greathorn Minotaur you're thinking of in MM4 which has a greathammer that claims to deal a 19-20/x4 crit. But given that it does the exact same damage, and has the same name as (as well as being an exotic weapon) the greathammer in Races of Stone, it's a pretty safe bet that it's the same weapon and just a typo in MM4. Even then, you'd still need to be stacking improved crit and the enchantment that works like keen but on bludgeoning weapons (weapon of impact? something like that).
Zherog
03-20-07, 10:42 AM I'm curious how you pulled this off? x4 crit is normally reserved for weapons with a crit range of 20/x4, so even if you're allowing keen and improved crit to stack (they don't normally) that's still 17-20/x4 tops (and I think the doubling of a doubling rules make it 18-20/x4 instead but I could be wrong).

Your second one is correct - it would be 18-20.
Frugal
03-20-07, 11:02 AM Your second one is correct - it would be 18-20.

That's what I thought, but no books around makes it tougher. But I could see the mistake in making it 17-20, still don't know about 15-20/x4.
Seeker95
03-20-07, 11:23 AM Do you got any ideas on what I can do to make use of my crit as much as possible?1. When facing an opponent, roll your d20 and pray for a crit roll.
2. "Load" a d20 so that it rolls a crit more often.
3. Avoid attacking constructs, plants, oozes, or undead.
_Jayne_Cobb_
03-20-07, 11:52 AM Im playing a character with a crit chance of 15+ with x4

How? :confused:

Do you got (sic) any ideas on what I can do to make use of my crit as much as possible?

Make lots of attack rolls.
Ra-Tiel
03-20-07, 12:20 PM How? :confused: [...]
My guess would be a maxed psychic weapon master. He gains the ability to increase the critical multiplier by one step (x3 -> x4), and - if already having the "Improved Critical" feat - gains an additional +2 to the threat range that stacks with any other bonuses.

So, any weapon with 19-20/x3 would be sufficient for such a build, although the increased multiplier only works at most 5 times per day iirc. :thinks:

Anyways, imho this thread would be better suited for either the Combat or CO boards. ;)
_Jayne_Cobb_
03-20-07, 12:34 PM My guess would be a maxed psychic weapon master. He gains the ability to increase the critical multiplier by one step (x3 -> x4), and - if already having the "Improved Critical" feat - gains an additional +2 to the threat range that stacks with any other bonuses.

Actually, Improved Critical specifically "doesn't stack with any other effect that expands the threat range of a weapon."
Ra-Tiel
03-20-07, 12:41 PM Actually, Improved Critical specifically "doesn't stack with any other effect that expands the threat range of a weapon."
But the psychic weapon master's class ability does. ;)
Hadan
03-20-07, 02:22 PM One of the reasons i made this was by being a disciple of dispater and the other was to have improved critical ( Which stacks! )
Normally it would be 20. Because of improved critical it's now 19-20 and because im a lvl 8 disciple of dispater the treat range tripples, 15-20. Disciple of dispater is in Book of vile darkness page 60!
Correct me if im wrong.. ;)
_Jayne_Cobb_
03-20-07, 02:24 PM But the psychic weapon master's class ability does. ;)

Ah, that would explain my error. I deplore psionics in the game so know sod-all about specifc psy classes and whatnot. Mea culpa.
Zherog
03-20-07, 02:46 PM One of the reasons i made this was by being a disciple of dispater and the other was to have improved critical ( Which stacks! )
Normally it would be 20. Because of improved critical it's now 19-20 and because im a lvl 8 disciple of dispater the treat range tripples, 15-20. Disciple of dispater is in Book of vile darkness page 60!
Correct me if im wrong.. ;)

I'm not familiar with the class. If all it does is triple the original threat range, then your range becomes 18-20, not 15-20.
Frugal
03-20-07, 02:48 PM But the psychic weapon master's class ability does. ;)

Where is this class? I don't see it in the consolidated class or PrC lists.
Hadan
03-20-07, 02:49 PM I'm not familiar with the class. If all it does is triple the original threat range, then your range becomes 18-20, not 15-20.

hmm, but maybe the effect tripples the improved critical and the normal!
Frugal
03-20-07, 02:54 PM hmm, but maybe the effect tripples the improved critical and the normal!

Yes, but if memory serves with "WOTC math" a tripling of a doubling equals a quadrupling. So 20/x4 becomes 19-20/x4 with improved crit, which would then go to 16-20/x4, and that's only if it actually triples the effect of improved crit rather than changing it so that it triples the crit range instead of doubling it (which is how I suspect it's actually worded).

Still a 3.0 source and where 3.5 has really locked down expanding crit ranges I wouldn't allow it.
_Jayne_Cobb_
03-20-07, 03:27 PM Yes, but if memory serves with "WOTC math" a tripling of a doubling equals a quadrupling. So 20/x4 becomes 19-20/x4 with improved crit, which would then go to 16-20/x4, and that's only if it actually triples the effect of improved crit rather than changing it so that it triples the crit range instead of doubling it (which is how I suspect it's actually worded).

Still a 3.0 source and where 3.5 has really locked down expanding crit ranges I wouldn't allow it.

Each multiplication adds to the number of "pips" of crit range. The initial range was 20, which is just a single "pip." A doubling adds a second "pip" which brings it to 19-20. A tripling adds three more "pips" which brings it to 16-20. This is asusming that Improved Critical is allowed to stack, which it normally does not do under 3.5 rules.

Why not just go for a Keen rapier: Rapier (18-20) + Improved Critical (15-20) + x3 Critical range from class (6-20) + Keen (3-20). This is a prety maxed-out crit build which, coincidentally, serves to illustrate precisely why the crit stacking rules were changed in 3.5 edition.
Nihzlet
03-20-07, 03:33 PM Posted by _Jayne_Cobb_:
A tripling adds three more "pips" which brings it to 16-20.tripling adds two, not three. that makes it 17-20.

and where is this psychic weapon master class? i dont remember hearing of it before.
Ra-Tiel
03-20-07, 03:45 PM Ah, that would explain my error. I deplore psionics in the game so know sod-all about specifc psy classes and whatnot. Mea culpa.
No problem. :)

Where is this class? I don't see it in the consolidated class or PrC lists.
It can be found here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d).
_Jayne_Cobb_
03-20-07, 03:46 PM tripling adds two, not three. that makes it 17-20.

and where is this psychic weapon master class? i dont remember hearing of it before.

D'oh, of course! I don't recall, was it the same in 3.0?
Frugal
03-20-07, 03:56 PM I see it's a flat +1 to multiplier (limited time per days) and a +2 to the crit range if you already have improved crit. I don't think I've ever seen a 19-20/x3 weapon, best you can do is 20/x3 as far as I know. So with improved crit that's 19-20/x3, with that ability it goes to 17-20/x3, 17-20/x4 a limited number of times per day.
Tyraxus
03-20-07, 04:24 PM If you have any sneak attack dice, Telling Blow could be lots of fun with a large crit range.
Melpomene
03-20-07, 04:52 PM And your DM allows this? Anyway....

The standard answer is to put burst enchantments on your weapons, get lots of attacks and, since you're using BoVD anyway, there are a couple critical weapon enchants there to deal even more damage.
Nihzlet
03-20-07, 06:10 PM Posted by _Jayne_Cobb_:
D'oh, of course! I don't recall, was it the same in 3.0?yeah, i believe it was. we played 3.0 when i was in college and one of our players was a huge twink, he did stuff like this all the time.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Hadan 03-20-07, 03:12 AM	Im playing a character with a crit chance of 15+ with x4 and I want to make use of that as much as possible.. Do you got any ideas on what I can do to make use of my crit as much as possible? Thanks
bobothechimp 03-20-07, 03:18 AM	Greater Truedeath Crystal from Magic Item Compendium allows critical hits against undead creatures.
Ariath Ska'Vhor 03-20-07, 03:35 AM	Im playing a character with a crit chance of 15+ with x4 and I want to make use of that as much as possible.. Do you got any ideas on what I can do to make use of my crit as much as possible? Thanks Firstly, I'm just curious on how you pulled that one off. But a bit of advice I can give is the Disciple of Dispater class. If you're wielding an iron weapon by I believe 8th level you get three times the crit range that stacks with improved critial (but not keen). One of my favorite uses of this is a greatfalchion (sandstorm) and by DoD 8th level you have a crit range of 9-20.
Archon of Light 03-20-07, 03:37 AM	Im playing a character with a crit chance of 15+ with x4 and I want to make use of that as much as possible.. Do you got any ideas on what I can do to make use of my crit as much as possible? Thanks Attack creatures with low ACs that are not immune to criticals, and always roll high. Maybe I'm not understanding the question... :thinks:
bobothechimp 03-20-07, 04:09 AM	I would like to know if there is any type of item or enhancement that allows critical hits against creatures normally immune to them.
runestar 03-20-07, 06:54 AM	Elemental burst weapon enhancements would still work on creatures immune to crits.:)
Frugal 03-20-07, 09:01 AM	Im playing a character with a crit chance of 15+ with x4 and I want to make use of that as much as possible.. Do you got any ideas on what I can do to make use of my crit as much as possible? Thanks I'm curious how you pulled this off? x4 crit is normally reserved for weapons with a crit range of 20/x4, so even if you're allowing keen and improved crit to stack (they don't normally) that's still 17-20/x4 tops (and I think the doubling of a doubling rules make it 18-20/x4 instead but I could be wrong).
Tempest Stormwind 03-20-07, 09:14 AM	I'd like to know how you're doing it as well -- to my knowledge, it's impossible without busting out 3.0 rules of stacking crit range expanders or the Disciple of Dispater (3.0 BoVD PrC). If you're using the Talenta sharrash, do note that it was changed in errata to a much more reasonable crit rate (although I believe there's a weapon in the MM3 that's similar). That said, look into the Tome of Battle. Blood in the Water stance + two-weapon fighting (if you have it) + high crit range + high crit multiplier = you are a living cuisinart. (This stance gives you a cumulative +1 to attack and damage rolls for each critical hit you confirm. It resets to 0 if you end the stance or go for one minute without making a crit.)
Frugal 03-20-07, 09:22 AM	I'd like to know how you're doing it as well -- to my knowledge, it's impossible without busting out 3.0 rules of stacking crit range expanders or the Disciple of Dispater (3.0 BoVD PrC). If you're using the Talenta sharrash, do note that it was changed in errata to a much more reasonable crit rate (although I believe there's a weapon in the MM3 that's similar). It's probably the Greathorn Minotaur you're thinking of in MM4 which has a greathammer that claims to deal a 19-20/x4 crit. But given that it does the exact same damage, and has the same name as (as well as being an exotic weapon) the greathammer in Races of Stone, it's a pretty safe bet that it's the same weapon and just a typo in MM4. Even then, you'd still need to be stacking improved crit and the enchantment that works like keen but on bludgeoning weapons (weapon of impact? something like that).
Zherog 03-20-07, 10:42 AM	I'm curious how you pulled this off? x4 crit is normally reserved for weapons with a crit range of 20/x4, so even if you're allowing keen and improved crit to stack (they don't normally) that's still 17-20/x4 tops (and I think the doubling of a doubling rules make it 18-20/x4 instead but I could be wrong). Your second one is correct - it would be 18-20.
Frugal 03-20-07, 11:02 AM	Your second one is correct - it would be 18-20. That's what I thought, but no books around makes it tougher. But I could see the mistake in making it 17-20, still don't know about 15-20/x4.
Seeker95 03-20-07, 11:23 AM	Do you got any ideas on what I can do to make use of my crit as much as possible?1. When facing an opponent, roll your d20 and pray for a crit roll. 2. "Load" a d20 so that it rolls a crit more often. 3. Avoid attacking constructs, plants, oozes, or undead.
_Jayne_Cobb_ 03-20-07, 11:52 AM	Im playing a character with a crit chance of 15+ with x4 How? :confused: Do you got (sic) any ideas on what I can do to make use of my crit as much as possible? Make lots of attack rolls.
Ra-Tiel 03-20-07, 12:20 PM	How? :confused: [...] My guess would be a maxed psychic weapon master. He gains the ability to increase the critical multiplier by one step (x3 -> x4), and - if already having the "Improved Critical" feat - gains an additional +2 to the threat range that stacks with any other bonuses. So, any weapon with 19-20/x3 would be sufficient for such a build, although the increased multiplier only works at most 5 times per day iirc. :thinks: Anyways, imho this thread would be better suited for either the Combat or CO boards. ;)
_Jayne_Cobb_ 03-20-07, 12:34 PM	My guess would be a maxed psychic weapon master. He gains the ability to increase the critical multiplier by one step (x3 -> x4), and - if already having the "Improved Critical" feat - gains an additional +2 to the threat range that stacks with any other bonuses. Actually, Improved Critical specifically "doesn't stack with any other effect that expands the threat range of a weapon."
Ra-Tiel 03-20-07, 12:41 PM	Actually, Improved Critical specifically "doesn't stack with any other effect that expands the threat range of a weapon." But the psychic weapon master's class ability does. ;)
Hadan 03-20-07, 02:22 PM	One of the reasons i made this was by being a disciple of dispater and the other was to have improved critical ( Which stacks! ) Normally it would be 20. Because of improved critical it's now 19-20 and because im a lvl 8 disciple of dispater the treat range tripples, 15-20. Disciple of dispater is in Book of vile darkness page 60! Correct me if im wrong.. ;)
_Jayne_Cobb_ 03-20-07, 02:24 PM	But the psychic weapon master's class ability does. ;) Ah, that would explain my error. I deplore psionics in the game so know sod-all about specifc psy classes and whatnot. Mea culpa.
Zherog 03-20-07, 02:46 PM	One of the reasons i made this was by being a disciple of dispater and the other was to have improved critical ( Which stacks! ) Normally it would be 20. Because of improved critical it's now 19-20 and because im a lvl 8 disciple of dispater the treat range tripples, 15-20. Disciple of dispater is in Book of vile darkness page 60! Correct me if im wrong.. ;) I'm not familiar with the class. If all it does is triple the original threat range, then your range becomes 18-20, not 15-20.
Frugal 03-20-07, 02:48 PM	But the psychic weapon master's class ability does. ;) Where is this class? I don't see it in the consolidated class or PrC lists.
Hadan 03-20-07, 02:49 PM	I'm not familiar with the class. If all it does is triple the original threat range, then your range becomes 18-20, not 15-20. hmm, but maybe the effect tripples the improved critical and the normal!
Frugal 03-20-07, 02:54 PM	hmm, but maybe the effect tripples the improved critical and the normal! Yes, but if memory serves with "WOTC math" a tripling of a doubling equals a quadrupling. So 20/x4 becomes 19-20/x4 with improved crit, which would then go to 16-20/x4, and that's only if it actually triples the effect of improved crit rather than changing it so that it triples the crit range instead of doubling it (which is how I suspect it's actually worded). Still a 3.0 source and where 3.5 has really locked down expanding crit ranges I wouldn't allow it.
_Jayne_Cobb_ 03-20-07, 03:27 PM	Yes, but if memory serves with "WOTC math" a tripling of a doubling equals a quadrupling. So 20/x4 becomes 19-20/x4 with improved crit, which would then go to 16-20/x4, and that's only if it actually triples the effect of improved crit rather than changing it so that it triples the crit range instead of doubling it (which is how I suspect it's actually worded). Still a 3.0 source and where 3.5 has really locked down expanding crit ranges I wouldn't allow it. Each multiplication adds to the number of "pips" of crit range. The initial range was 20, which is just a single "pip." A doubling adds a second "pip" which brings it to 19-20. A tripling adds three more "pips" which brings it to 16-20. This is asusming that Improved Critical is allowed to stack, which it normally does not do under 3.5 rules. Why not just go for a Keen rapier: Rapier (18-20) + Improved Critical (15-20) + x3 Critical range from class (6-20) + Keen (3-20). This is a prety maxed-out crit build which, coincidentally, serves to illustrate precisely why the crit stacking rules were changed in 3.5 edition.
Nihzlet 03-20-07, 03:33 PM	Posted by _Jayne_Cobb_: A tripling adds three more "pips" which brings it to 16-20.tripling adds two, not three. that makes it 17-20. and where is this psychic weapon master class? i dont remember hearing of it before.
Ra-Tiel 03-20-07, 03:45 PM	Ah, that would explain my error. I deplore psionics in the game so know sod-all about specifc psy classes and whatnot. Mea culpa. No problem. :) Where is this class? I don't see it in the consolidated class or PrC lists. It can be found here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d).
_Jayne_Cobb_ 03-20-07, 03:46 PM	tripling adds two, not three. that makes it 17-20. and where is this psychic weapon master class? i dont remember hearing of it before. D'oh, of course! I don't recall, was it the same in 3.0?
Frugal 03-20-07, 03:56 PM	I see it's a flat +1 to multiplier (limited time per days) and a +2 to the crit range if you already have improved crit. I don't think I've ever seen a 19-20/x3 weapon, best you can do is 20/x3 as far as I know. So with improved crit that's 19-20/x3, with that ability it goes to 17-20/x3, 17-20/x4 a limited number of times per day.
Tyraxus 03-20-07, 04:24 PM	If you have any sneak attack dice, Telling Blow could be lots of fun with a large crit range.
Melpomene 03-20-07, 04:52 PM	And your DM allows this? Anyway.... The standard answer is to put burst enchantments on your weapons, get lots of attacks and, since you're using BoVD anyway, there are a couple critical weapon enchants there to deal even more damage.
Nihzlet 03-20-07, 06:10 PM	Posted by _Jayne_Cobb_: D'oh, of course! I don't recall, was it the same in 3.0?yeah, i believe it was. we played 3.0 when i was in college and one of our players was a huge twink, he did stuff like this all the time.