Crusader + Grapple? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Crusader + Grapple? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
CDTalmas
10-31-07, 03:51 AM I do hope this is the right forum to ask, but if a Crusader attempts to grapple and provokes an attack of opportunity, does the grapple attempt still succeed, given that damage would go into his Delayed Damage Pool and not actually affect him until the end of his turn?
Cainin
10-31-07, 11:12 AM Technically speaking, you are correct. The same situation would apply if you had a Stoneskin spell up and the damage wasn't sufficient to get past your DR.
CDTalmas
10-31-07, 05:18 PM Alright! Good to know :)

Thank you very much Cainin.
StruckingFuggle
10-31-07, 06:11 PM On the other hand, I'm AFB but I seem to remember that effects that come with the attack happen right now, even if the DDP postpones the damage to next round.

For example, if your DDP could soak all the damage from a stunning fist attack, you're still stunned that round if you fail your save.

So I don't think it's that easy, because it's not just like stoneskin.
CDTalmas
11-01-07, 12:20 AM Effects, yes, but there are no additional effects. Simply the damage. And if the damage is held off, the grapple should go through, in theory. Also, some effects require that there be damage (though not all). All I'm really concerned about at the moment is the damage without additional effects.
CrazyGuy
11-01-07, 01:14 PM Well, grapple states "if the AoO deals damage" the grapple automatically fails.

I do not have ToB myself, so I sadly cannot look up Crusader's DDP and see whether or not this counts as damage. IIRC, however, it looks something like this:

"When the Crusader takes damage, it goes into gets delayed for one round, up to the limit of his DDP."

So: Crusader takes damage (although he is not feeling it yet), and the grapple fails.

My :twocents:
CDTalmas
11-01-07, 06:16 PM That's just it. The specific wording is a little vague:

Steely Resolve (Ex): Your supreme dedication and intense focus allow you to temporarily set aside the pain and hindering effects of injuries. When an opponent strikes you, the injury does no immediately affect you.

You have a delayed damage pool that allows you to forestall the effects of many injuries. This pool begins at 0 with each encounter. When you are attacked, any hit point damage the blow deals is added to your delayed damage pool. At the end of your next turn, you take damage equal to the total stored in your delayed damage pool, which then resets to 0...

...Special effects tied to an attack, such as energy drain, stun, and so forth, still affect you as normal, and their effects are not delayed by this ability. For example, if you are bitten by a venomous spider, you must still attempt a Fortitude Save against the poison immediately, even though the damage shifts into your delayed damage pool. By the same token, any other special attack that imposes a condition, such as a medusa's petrifying gaze, takes immediate effect on you.

Grapple, as far as I know, has no "additional effect" tied to it. There's no stun or anything that occurs from being hit... It just cancels if "damage is dealt." But the question becomes whether or not the damage was done until the end of your next turn.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CDTalmas 10-31-07, 03:51 AM	I do hope this is the right forum to ask, but if a Crusader attempts to grapple and provokes an attack of opportunity, does the grapple attempt still succeed, given that damage would go into his Delayed Damage Pool and not actually affect him until the end of his turn?
Cainin 10-31-07, 11:12 AM	Technically speaking, you are correct. The same situation would apply if you had a Stoneskin spell up and the damage wasn't sufficient to get past your DR.
CDTalmas 10-31-07, 05:18 PM	Alright! Good to know :) Thank you very much Cainin.
StruckingFuggle 10-31-07, 06:11 PM	On the other hand, I'm AFB but I seem to remember that effects that come with the attack happen right now, even if the DDP postpones the damage to next round. For example, if your DDP could soak all the damage from a stunning fist attack, you're still stunned that round if you fail your save. So I don't think it's that easy, because it's not just like stoneskin.
CDTalmas 11-01-07, 12:20 AM	Effects, yes, but there are no additional effects. Simply the damage. And if the damage is held off, the grapple should go through, in theory. Also, some effects require that there be damage (though not all). All I'm really concerned about at the moment is the damage without additional effects.
CrazyGuy 11-01-07, 01:14 PM	Well, grapple states "if the AoO deals damage" the grapple automatically fails. I do not have ToB myself, so I sadly cannot look up Crusader's DDP and see whether or not this counts as damage. IIRC, however, it looks something like this: "When the Crusader takes damage, it goes into gets delayed for one round, up to the limit of his DDP." So: Crusader takes damage (although he is not feeling it yet), and the grapple fails. My :twocents:
CDTalmas 11-01-07, 06:16 PM	That's just it. The specific wording is a little vague: Steely Resolve (Ex): Your supreme dedication and intense focus allow you to temporarily set aside the pain and hindering effects of injuries. When an opponent strikes you, the injury does no immediately affect you. You have a delayed damage pool that allows you to forestall the effects of many injuries. This pool begins at 0 with each encounter. When you are attacked, any hit point damage the blow deals is added to your delayed damage pool. At the end of your next turn, you take damage equal to the total stored in your delayed damage pool, which then resets to 0... ...Special effects tied to an attack, such as energy drain, stun, and so forth, still affect you as normal, and their effects are not delayed by this ability. For example, if you are bitten by a venomous spider, you must still attempt a Fortitude Save against the poison immediately, even though the damage shifts into your delayed damage pool. By the same token, any other special attack that imposes a condition, such as a medusa's petrifying gaze, takes immediate effect on you. Grapple, as far as I know, has no "additional effect" tied to it. There's no stun or anything that occurs from being hit... It just cancels if "damage is dealt." But the question becomes whether or not the damage was done until the end of your next turn.