Cut the crap about POLYMORPH already! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Cut the crap about POLYMORPH already! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Raven Dark
05-03-06, 02:39 PM The most intelligent thing I've heard all day over the new Polymorph rules...

Basically, people are throwing out any crap that happens to jump into their minds, in a poorly thought out attempt to discredit an excellent rule that will simplify the game.

There simply isn't enough information yet to warrant the amount of crap people are spouting out all over the place. All we have to go on is a one page preview of a suplemental book. At the moment over half of what people are complaining about are either assumptions, hopeful thoughts, or outcries of misplaced rage. Until the book comes out, NOTHING can be certain.

The bottom line is that Alter Self, Polymorph and Shapechange remain effectively unchanged.

We haven't seen the whole book yet. For all we know on the very next page in the book (not shown in the limited online preview) contains errata for all three of these spells.

And since the web previews have so far been identical to the printed page I see no reason to doubt that it will be the same this time.

Statements like this seem to be accurate at first, but are actually misleading. Previews tend not to show the whole picture.

EXAMPLE: The feat section of the PHII preview clearly does not show all of the feats on the table. The new book is supposed to have 100 feats and only 70 are shown (likely jsut the general feats). We still haven't seen the Ceremony feats, Combat Form feats, Divine feats, Heritage feats, Metamagic feats, & Tactical feats.

BOTTOM LINE: Everybody is over-reacting over something that nobody (short of the game-designers) can possibly understand at this time.

From what I've seen, the new Polymorph rules in the PHII are perfectly fine. The abuses and rules "holes" that people are worried about will all likely be fixed with additional text on the following page of the book, soon to be released errata changing the polymorph spell (and its ilk), or something of that kind. After all, these are professionals we are talking about.
Seeker95
05-03-06, 04:32 PM :tiphat: to a rational thinker. :D
Raven Dark
05-03-06, 04:40 PM :tiphat: to a rational thinker. :D

Thanks. I was expecting something of the sort from you. Why don't you join us in this thread's more active twin brother: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=632374
Krug_the_smasher
05-03-06, 06:44 PM Well, i have to agree fully. There is alot of crap and arguements on these boards that should not be here. And people that argue incessantly about something tick me off. It is too much like the Powerful Build + Monkeygrip issue. People need to stop argueing about it and rule it the way they want.
Seeker95
05-03-06, 06:55 PM People need to stop argueing about it and rule it the way they want.But... but... how else are we supposed to figure out who wins the thread? :D
Krug_the_smasher
05-03-06, 07:09 PM But... but... how else are we supposed to figure out who wins the thread? :D

Everyone wins if it doesnt degrade to incessant argueing :D
MrkGrismer
05-04-06, 10:37 AM I am not sure why you would post this twice, but:

There simply isn't enough information yet to warrant the amount of crap people are spouting out all over the place. All we have to go on is a one page preview of a suplemental book. At the moment over half of what people are complaining about are either assumptions, hopeful thoughts, or outcries of misplaced rage. Until the book comes out, NOTHING can be certain.

I haven't really seen much in the way of complaints here.

We haven't seen the whole book yet. For all we know on the very next page in the book (not shown in the limited online preview) contains errata for all three of these spells.

Or the next page could contain a rule that says that everyone who's character's name begins with "P" can change into a Purple Worm at will.

We have seen is the web preview page in which the Polymorph subschool is introduced, two example spells are given and it is stated that there is no changes to the current PHB spells Alter Self, Polymorph and Shapechange

Statements like this seem to be accurate at first, but are actually misleading. Previews tend not to show the whole picture.

EXAMPLE: The feat section of the PHII preview clearly does not show all of the feats on the table. The new book is supposed to have 100 feats and only 70 are shown (likely jsut the general feats). We still haven't seen the Ceremony feats, Combat Form feats, Divine feats, Heritage feats, Metamagic feats, & Tactical feats.

But those feats that are on their are actually there, they aren't going to suddenly disappear from the book and there is not going to be a paragraph 'on the next page' that says, "oh by the way, that was just a joke, those feats don't really exist. So this statement is just hyperbole.

BOTTOM LINE: Everybody is over-reacting over something that nobody (short of the game-designers) can possibly understand at this time.

And that would include you.

From what I've seen, the new Polymorph rules in the PHII are perfectly fine. The abuses and rules "holes" that people are worried about will all likely be fixed with additional text on the following page of the book, soon to be released errata changing the polymorph spell (and its ilk), or something of that kind. After all, these are professionals we are talking about.

Hey look, baseless suposition. How about we wait and see what actually happens before we make wild predictions about what may or may not happen. After all, these are professional we are talking about, and they have not changed the spells.
Count Arioch the 28th
05-04-06, 04:41 PM I will wiat until the final version before I give my final verdict, but judging by the line that says you can't use class features, that means a fighter can't use his bonus feats while polymorphed, a paladin no longer gets his charisma bonus to his saves while polymorphed, and so forth.

However, it seems to me that they're trying to go back to 2E polymorph, where it was basically a disguise/travel spell. And to be honest, that's fine with me.
MrkGrismer
05-04-06, 10:17 PM I will wiat until the final version before I give my final verdict, but judging by the line that says you can't use class features, that means a fighter can't use his bonus feats while polymorphed, a paladin no longer gets his charisma bonus to his saves while polymorphed, and so forth.

That appears to be how it works for the new spells, plus all equipment merges (but not Alter Self, Polymorph and Shapechange).
Count Arioch the 28th
05-05-06, 01:21 AM Your equipment always merged, that's not new.
Witch
05-05-06, 01:59 AM Your equipment always merged, that's not new.
It didn't.

When the change occurs, your equipment, if any, either remains worn or held by the new form (if it is capable of wearing or holding the item), or melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional. When you revert to your true form, any objects previously melded into the new form reappear in the same location on your body they previously occupied and are once again functional. Any new items you wore in the assumed form and can’t wear in your normal form fall off and land at your feet; any that you could wear in either form or carry in a body part common to both forms at the time of reversion are still held in the same way. Any part of the body or piece of equipment that is separated from the whole reverts to its true form.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Raven Dark 05-03-06, 02:39 PM	The most intelligent thing I've heard all day over the new Polymorph rules... Basically, people are throwing out any crap that happens to jump into their minds, in a poorly thought out attempt to discredit an excellent rule that will simplify the game. There simply isn't enough information yet to warrant the amount of crap people are spouting out all over the place. All we have to go on is a one page preview of a suplemental book. At the moment over half of what people are complaining about are either assumptions, hopeful thoughts, or outcries of misplaced rage. Until the book comes out, NOTHING can be certain. The bottom line is that Alter Self, Polymorph and Shapechange remain effectively unchanged. We haven't seen the whole book yet. For all we know on the very next page in the book (not shown in the limited online preview) contains errata for all three of these spells. And since the web previews have so far been identical to the printed page I see no reason to doubt that it will be the same this time. Statements like this seem to be accurate at first, but are actually misleading. Previews tend not to show the whole picture. EXAMPLE: The feat section of the PHII preview clearly does not show all of the feats on the table. The new book is supposed to have 100 feats and only 70 are shown (likely jsut the general feats). We still haven't seen the Ceremony feats, Combat Form feats, Divine feats, Heritage feats, Metamagic feats, & Tactical feats. BOTTOM LINE: Everybody is over-reacting over something that nobody (short of the game-designers) can possibly understand at this time. From what I've seen, the new Polymorph rules in the PHII are perfectly fine. The abuses and rules "holes" that people are worried about will all likely be fixed with additional text on the following page of the book, soon to be released errata changing the polymorph spell (and its ilk), or something of that kind. After all, these are professionals we are talking about.
Seeker95 05-03-06, 04:32 PM	:tiphat: to a rational thinker. :D
Raven Dark 05-03-06, 04:40 PM	:tiphat: to a rational thinker. :D Thanks. I was expecting something of the sort from you. Why don't you join us in this thread's more active twin brother: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=632374
Krug_the_smasher 05-03-06, 06:44 PM	Well, i have to agree fully. There is alot of crap and arguements on these boards that should not be here. And people that argue incessantly about something tick me off. It is too much like the Powerful Build + Monkeygrip issue. People need to stop argueing about it and rule it the way they want.
Seeker95 05-03-06, 06:55 PM	People need to stop argueing about it and rule it the way they want.But... but... how else are we supposed to figure out who wins the thread? :D
Krug_the_smasher 05-03-06, 07:09 PM	But... but... how else are we supposed to figure out who wins the thread? :D Everyone wins if it doesnt degrade to incessant argueing :D
MrkGrismer 05-04-06, 10:37 AM	I am not sure why you would post this twice, but: There simply isn't enough information yet to warrant the amount of crap people are spouting out all over the place. All we have to go on is a one page preview of a suplemental book. At the moment over half of what people are complaining about are either assumptions, hopeful thoughts, or outcries of misplaced rage. Until the book comes out, NOTHING can be certain. I haven't really seen much in the way of complaints here. We haven't seen the whole book yet. For all we know on the very next page in the book (not shown in the limited online preview) contains errata for all three of these spells. Or the next page could contain a rule that says that everyone who's character's name begins with "P" can change into a Purple Worm at will. We have seen is the web preview page in which the Polymorph subschool is introduced, two example spells are given and it is stated that there is no changes to the current PHB spells Alter Self, Polymorph and Shapechange Statements like this seem to be accurate at first, but are actually misleading. Previews tend not to show the whole picture. EXAMPLE: The feat section of the PHII preview clearly does not show all of the feats on the table. The new book is supposed to have 100 feats and only 70 are shown (likely jsut the general feats). We still haven't seen the Ceremony feats, Combat Form feats, Divine feats, Heritage feats, Metamagic feats, & Tactical feats. But those feats that are on their are actually there, they aren't going to suddenly disappear from the book and there is not going to be a paragraph 'on the next page' that says, "oh by the way, that was just a joke, those feats don't really exist. So this statement is just hyperbole. BOTTOM LINE: Everybody is over-reacting over something that nobody (short of the game-designers) can possibly understand at this time. And that would include you. From what I've seen, the new Polymorph rules in the PHII are perfectly fine. The abuses and rules "holes" that people are worried about will all likely be fixed with additional text on the following page of the book, soon to be released errata changing the polymorph spell (and its ilk), or something of that kind. After all, these are professionals we are talking about. Hey look, baseless suposition. How about we wait and see what actually happens before we make wild predictions about what may or may not happen. After all, these are professional we are talking about, and they have not changed the spells.
Count Arioch the 28th 05-04-06, 04:41 PM	I will wiat until the final version before I give my final verdict, but judging by the line that says you can't use class features, that means a fighter can't use his bonus feats while polymorphed, a paladin no longer gets his charisma bonus to his saves while polymorphed, and so forth. However, it seems to me that they're trying to go back to 2E polymorph, where it was basically a disguise/travel spell. And to be honest, that's fine with me.
MrkGrismer 05-04-06, 10:17 PM	I will wiat until the final version before I give my final verdict, but judging by the line that says you can't use class features, that means a fighter can't use his bonus feats while polymorphed, a paladin no longer gets his charisma bonus to his saves while polymorphed, and so forth. That appears to be how it works for the new spells, plus all equipment merges (but not Alter Self, Polymorph and Shapechange).
Count Arioch the 28th 05-05-06, 01:21 AM	Your equipment always merged, that's not new.
Witch 05-05-06, 01:59 AM	Your equipment always merged, that's not new. It didn't. When the change occurs, your equipment, if any, either remains worn or held by the new form (if it is capable of wearing or holding the item), or melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional. When you revert to your true form, any objects previously melded into the new form reappear in the same location on your body they previously occupied and are once again functional. Any new items you wore in the assumed form and can’t wear in your normal form fall off and land at your feet; any that you could wear in either form or carry in a body part common to both forms at the time of reversion are still held in the same way. Any part of the body or piece of equipment that is separated from the whole reverts to its true form.