D&D 4.0 expectations/suggestions [Archive] - Wizards Community

D&D 4.0 expectations/suggestions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Doopliss
12-27-05, 07:11 PM First off, I know 4.0 hasn't been released or even announced, but is there anything in particular you'd like to see in it?

I personally think they need a new way to calculate accuity. Wisdom just doesn't work for all those 'seeing' skills. I doubt it would be big enough to merit a new ability score, but Wisdom... I know it's a nit-pick, but still...

And, of course, half-elves and charisma need a boost. :)

Any thoughts on other improvements inbetween versions?
thought_riot
12-27-05, 07:14 PM Wisdom is how well you perceive your surroundings, in addition to common sense. I don't see how that wouldn't go with Listen/Spot.

Charisma is always going to be a weak stat. How can it be improved?

Half-elves could be improved.

But I think this is all pointless considering 4th Edition will not be any time and i mean ANY TIME soon.
narukagami
12-27-05, 07:26 PM If this 4.0 garbage keeps up, I can forsee bringing it up getting added as a Violation to the CoC.

See, the joy of d20 is its flexability, if you don't like something change it! If you don't wanna do the work yourself, or have nothing to discuss about something that should be changed other than *****ing and moaning about it, stop whining!

*waits for WizOs to come lock the thread* :waits:
Wrong
12-27-05, 07:32 PM I don't want 4.0 D&D !
I want an Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 3rd edition ! :P
MessiahOmega
12-27-05, 07:44 PM i hope to see......................NO 4th EDITION.

at least not for 5 or 6 years. dont need it, dont want it.
Xyl
12-28-05, 12:13 AM If and when 4th edition happens, it won't be a minor change like 3.5e - no messing around with half-elves' stats. Guessing about what it might entail is pointless. I expect it won't appear until the accumulated rules cruft of 3.x becomes so heavy that it's simplest to wipe it out and start over, which will hopefully be many years down the road.
WhtKnt
12-28-05, 12:26 AM What is this obession people have with 4E? Cheese and rice! If it ain't broke, etc.

3.5 works just fine (3.0 worked fine, for that matter). If something sticks out in your mind as needing to be changed, then change it! There's a reason I say that I play version 3.75j. My campaign uses the 3.5 core rules, plus several variant rules from more books than I care to mention, plus a few throwbacks from 3E that I didn't appreciate being altered, and a few special touches all my own (the "j" stands for John).

Being a DM means never having to say, "I wish they'd make a so that it works like b."
Andrew_980
12-28-05, 01:02 AM I hate it when folks flip out when someone mentions 4.0, they are probably the same types that would have a fit over someone bringing up anything being made after 3.0 :D They did it before and can do it again.
WhtKnt
12-28-05, 02:56 AM I hate it when folks flip out when someone mentions 4.0, they are probably the same types that would have a fit over someone bringing up anything being made after 3.0 :D They did it before and can do it again.Actually, I consider 3.5 an improvement over 3E, just as I considered 3E a vast improvement over the travesty that was 2E. However, a thread of this nature gets started about four times a week, usually by a newcomer to the boards who hasn't noticed the 14,569 other 4E threads already in existence.

Will it eventually happen?

Probably.

Is it worth worrying over right now?

No.

As I and others have already pointed out; if you don't like something, change it! That's your prerogative as a DM.
WhtKnt
12-28-05, 03:03 AM And just to stay on topic, Wisdom works fine for an acuity test. Wisdom is, according to the SRD, "...a character’s willpower, common sense, perception, and intuition. While Intelligence represents one’s ability to analyze information, Wisdom represents being in tune with and aware of one’s surroundings."

Sounds like Spot and Listen skills should be tied to Wisdom to me.

Charisma doesn't need improvement. The way people use Charisma in the game needs improvement. DMs who find their players using Charisma as a dump stat should develop a few encounters that require high Charisma to resolve successfully.
Tyler Do'Urden
12-28-05, 04:20 AM My expectations for 4th edition include not coming out for a good [goshdarn] long time. These are some expensive books and I'd rather not have them all rendered obsolete within the next, say, five years. How about ten?
Dreamstryder
12-28-05, 04:46 AM It could be that 4e will be d20, but the classes will become more like kits, & you can just pick your abilities & save/etc progression sets similar to the generic classes in UA (Guardians of Order followed this idea in besm d20 already). I suspect that, now that Wizards is doing D&D, their revisions will be more like M:tG revisions: fairly non-major.
Seldarin
12-28-05, 05:27 AM Another 4.0 ****** topic....ZzZzZzZ

Congratulations, you started the 309,577,209th topic about this subject...

Grrr....
thought_riot
12-28-05, 09:32 AM It could be that 4e will be d20, but the classes will become more like kits, & you can just pick your abilities & save/etc progression sets similar to the generic classes in UA (Guardians of Order followed this idea in besm d20 already). I suspect that, now that Wizards is doing D&D, their revisions will be more like M:tG revisions: fairly non-major.

If it isnt a major revision, they wouldn't release an entire new edition for it. I think if they wanted to change something, they'd simply announce it, either online, in a new book (non-core), or both, and let the DMs choose if they wanna use it or not. That's the great thing about 3.5, flexibility.
babysamurai
12-28-05, 10:00 AM Magic of Incarnum and Psionics included in core.
I_Strahd
12-28-05, 12:56 PM do you hear that.......its the natives in the web getting restless.

RUN FOR COVER YOUNG ONE! I CANT HOLD THEM FOR LONG!

is he gone yet?
Stormonu
12-28-05, 01:38 PM 4.0 probably won't be out for another 4-5 years. Still, there is some things I'd like seen brought into the core rulebooks, maybe as a "revised and expanded" version like they did between 3.0 and 3.5.

1) Add Swift and Immediate Actions to the core rules
2) Fighter feat chains that have feats at 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th, 11th, 13th, 15th and 17th level (i.e., along the same lines as spells). Same could be done with other classes. Introduce fighter "specialists" who specialize in feat chains (at the cost of being denied access to other chains - similar in idea to wizard specialists).
3) Move the Complete classes (Warlock, Favored Soul, Scout, Healer) to the PHB.
4) Move some of the gear, magic items, spells and whatnot from other sources into the core books.
5) Update all core rules errata into a non-leatherbound volume of the book!
Wolfen Fenrison
12-28-05, 02:51 PM why, why, why, WHY!!!!

it seems to me that people that want all this stuff added to the "core 4th ed" books are just to lazy to buy the books that these rules come in, get a copy of the SRD, look up new rules in the glossery and stop whining.

i mean really wizards has sunk more time and money into 3.5 than 3.0 do any of you really think that they would just throw it all away to make a new addition to add stuff to the core books (which wouldn't warent a new addition anyways) or change the system so much that conversion would be to much hassle (at least the conversion from 3.0 to 3.5 was easy).
WayneTheGame
12-28-05, 02:56 PM No, the reason people want things put into the core rules is so they're considered CORE. Not everyone allows the use of any and all books, you know. And a lot of good some builds/suggestions are when you can't use half of it because the group you play in won't ALLOW things from the Complete/Races/Whatever series.
Wolfen Fenrison
12-28-05, 03:24 PM this is just me but in the game i run i allow anything that is official WotC material no matter the source be in dungeon/dragon magazine, stuff off the WotC website, and any WotC books, other than that its not in my game period. i find this is a great way to do things as makes keeping track of stuff my players use easy and it keeps out all that unbalanced 3rd party stuff.
WayneTheGame
12-28-05, 03:31 PM this is just me but in the game i run i allow anything that is official WotC material no matter the source be in dungeon/dragon magazine, stuff off the WotC website, and any WotC books, other than that its not in my game period. i find this is a great way to do things as makes keeping track of stuff my players use easy and it keeps out all that unbalanced 3rd party stuff.

Yes but not everyone does that. My group rarely allows things from the Complete books, and NEVER anything from Dragon/Dungeon. So having all those things considered "core" would help me out a lot. Each his own, however.
rbrt_Spade
12-28-05, 03:44 PM this is just me but in the game i run i allow anything that is official WotC material no matter the source be in dungeon/dragon magazine, stuff off the WotC website, and any WotC books, other than that its not in my game period. i find this is a great way to do things as makes keeping track of stuff my players use easy and it keeps out all that unbalanced 3rd party stuff.
You do know that a lot of 3rd party things are good. -White Wolf & Solveen Stone(maker of dlcs supplements) are good balanced things. Also from what I hear, Midnights good to.

When and IF 4e comes out, I will buy the core only & a campaign setting. I see no point in buying all the new books over again in my 3.0 & 3.5 books. I will still play them like people still play 2e.

The mods should make one of these things a sticky or band these things. :rolleyes:
Wolfen Fenrison
12-28-05, 05:22 PM on every 4e thread someone drags out a quote from one of the designers (which i can't find) that states that there is NO consideration on making a fourth edition, and i personaly think that the WizOs should ban the subject as it is amounts to as much as treads bashing D&D ie. nothing constructive and a waste of space and time.
WhtKnt
12-28-05, 07:48 PM Magic of Incarnum and Psionics included in core.As I use neither, I don't want them included in core. However, since I do use Green Ronin's Psychic's Handbook, AC as DR, wounds/vitality in place of hit points, and the silver standard, I think these should be core.

The point is, everyone wants their favorite material to be core, when all you really need to do is add it to your game. If your DM won't allow it, maybe you should find a new DM or else talk to the one you have.

Personally, if someone wants to use something "unofficial," all they need to do is provide me a reference (if I don't own it, they have to lend me the book) and a chance to read over the material. If I feel it is balanced for my game, I'll permit it. If not, I don't.
Thurbane
12-28-05, 09:27 PM My hopes for 4.0 is that it is a LONG way in the future.

I'm just glad I went straight from 2E to 3.5E, and didn't get gouged on 3E.

But when it does come about, please make 4E more "backward compatible" with earlier editions than what 3E/3.5E did. D20 system is great and all, but it has rendered 90% of my sizeable 1E/2E supplement collection unusable without HOURS of conversions. 2E was much more back compatible friendly with 1E...
Sigurd van Norhusen
12-29-05, 05:24 AM See, the joy of d20 is its flexability, if you don't like something change it! If you don't wanna do the work yourself, or have nothing to discuss about something that should be changed other than *****ing and moaning about it, stop whining!
And if you attempt to change something you really don't like, you get ****** and moaned at, and told that you should play GURPS or some White Wolf games. So stop screaming!
yeknom
12-29-05, 05:26 AM My hope for 4e is that somone will ban the mention of it on these boards until WoTC decides it is time to prepare for it.
WhtKnt
12-29-05, 10:40 AM My hopes for 4.0 is that it is a LONG way in the future.

I'm just glad I went straight from 2E to 3.5E, and didn't get gouged on 3E.

But when it does come about, please make 4E more "backward compatible" with earlier editions than what 3E/3.5E did. D20 system is great and all, but it has rendered 90% of my sizeable 1E/2E supplement collection unusable without HOURS of conversions. 2E was much more back compatible friendly with 1E...Really? People keep complaining about that, but I've converted most every module I intend to recycle with a minimum (usually about an hour, maybe two) effort. That's less time than I would spend plotting out and preparing an adventure (anywhere between 12 and 36 hours). The only place it breaks down is with NPCs, which require some decision making. And you must understand that earlier editions did not use a very comprehensive skill system. You typically had the skill (non-weapon proficiency) or you didn't. 3E requires a little more thought.
WhtKnt
12-29-05, 10:45 AM And if you attempt to change something you really don't like, you get ****** and moaned at, and told that you should play GURPS or some White Wolf games. So stop screaming!No, that is usually the result of someone crying that WotC should make that change core or otherwise official. If it's for your game, I could care less what you do, as it really doesn't affect me. I see something I don't like, I change it. You don't have to like it. The only ones I have to please are myself and my players.

If it is used at your table and you and your players are happy, who am I to tell you that you're doing it wrong? Who is WotC to tell you that you have to change? Who is some faceless name on these boards to try to correct a game that is working for you?
Vaalingrade Ashland
12-29-05, 12:17 PM I want them to be truthful and call the next edition 5e.
Arrowhen
12-29-05, 01:32 PM Ok, I'll actually answer one of these threads for a change.

In the next edition, I'd like to see as many options for campaign customization as the current edition has for character customization. So if I wanted to run, for example, a campaign with Lovecraft-style magic and brutal, deadly combat, I wouldn't have to come up with my own rules for those things or try to kludge them in from other systems. I'd just pick the options I wanted and tell my prospective players, "Ok, I'm starting a campaign using the Rare Ritual Magic, Sanity, and Gritty Combat systems, anyone interested?" I wouldn't have to present them with 40 pages of well-meaning but horribly flawed house rules, because those (balanced, playtested) options would be available in the core rules, allowing them to make an informed decision as to whether or not my campaign style was right for them
DangerDre
12-30-05, 06:03 AM I got angry when I heard 3.5 came out. Just after I bought my 3.0
What a waste of money.. now all my friends are cooler than me and I have to up grade.. including 3.5 DMG!?!

I see allot of books out their.
They are all $50.00
What do you need a DMG II for?
Why can't they make it soft cover?

I bought some books. Like the Draconomicon.
Crap!
I look in other books.
For the price, they don't give enough detail, info or pictures!!

I found the Draconomicon to be lacking! among others.
They just threw stuff together. sloppy. make a pretty dollar.

4.0 ?? !!

um.. That would Peave me off. WotC ? Im looking for another company to deal with.
Greedy commercialist. ... :ahem:
:rant: :tantrum: :banghead: :censored: :headexplo :thumbsdow :rant:
thought_riot
12-30-05, 09:59 AM I see allot of books out their.
They are all $50.00
What do you need a DMG II for?
Why can't they make it soft cover?

What world do youlive in? 50 dollars? I see the market price for most of the books to be 30,35, or 40, amazon has them for 20, 25, or 30. You don't need DMG II. They released it as an extra resource for DMs, WHO WANT IT. You don't NEED to buy it. They don't make any books except adventures soft cover.

The mentality that you need to buy every book WotC releases is what gets everyone thinking that WotC is a huge, horrible, brainwashing, greedy corporation that just wants your money. YOU BUY WHAT YOU WANT TO BUY. WOTC DOESNT CHOOSE THAT.
Nidair
12-30-05, 12:29 PM YOU BUY WHAT YOU WANT TO BUY. WOTC DOESNT CHOOSE THAT.

Huzzah for RPGA.

Oh, and I want DnD to become a flexible system again where the DM has power over mechanical elements of the game, as opposed to 3.5's static rulemonger-favoring system.
rbrt_Spade
12-30-05, 12:34 PM Huzzah for RPGA.

Oh, and I want DnD to become a flexible system again where the DM has power over mechanical elements of the game, as opposed to 3.5's static rulemonger-favoring system.

Ive seen the RPGAs rules, they have a lot of good tweeks to the system. But so many changes, you basicly learn a whole new phb.
SinisterSeraph
12-30-05, 08:07 PM What I expect from 4th edition is that it'll be released, it will ignore even more of the vast wealth of past material and information in favor of more influence from anime and such, version 4.5 will be released about a year afterwards, and people will start "Version 5.0" threads within a week of it's debut.
sandskimmer
12-30-05, 09:56 PM Why, oh why has this thread not been locked, killed, utterly destroyed so as to never be resurrected even by a greater deity yet?

Afterall, there has to be about a 1,000 or more people out there just itching to start their own 4.0 thread the very mircosecond this one dies because their memories obviously don't last any longer than that, which is why we get so many of these pointless, and un-wanted threads about 4.0.

LIVE THE PRESENT!!!!
I_Strahd
12-30-05, 11:12 PM What world do youlive in? 50 dollars? I see the market price for most of the books to be 30,35, or 40, amazon has them for 20, 25, or 30. You don't need DMG II. They released it as an extra resource for DMs, WHO WANT IT. You don't NEED to buy it. They don't make any books except adventures soft cover.

The mentality that you need to buy every book WotC releases is what gets everyone thinking that WotC is a huge, horrible, brainwashing, greedy corporation that just wants your money. YOU BUY WHAT YOU WANT TO BUY. WOTC DOESNT CHOOSE THAT.

he lives in toronto.

enough said. or not. my monster manual costed 19.95 u.s. and it would cost 27.95 can. :eek:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Doopliss 12-27-05, 07:11 PM	First off, I know 4.0 hasn't been released or even announced, but is there anything in particular you'd like to see in it? I personally think they need a new way to calculate accuity. Wisdom just doesn't work for all those 'seeing' skills. I doubt it would be big enough to merit a new ability score, but Wisdom... I know it's a nit-pick, but still... And, of course, half-elves and charisma need a boost. :) Any thoughts on other improvements inbetween versions?
thought_riot 12-27-05, 07:14 PM	Wisdom is how well you perceive your surroundings, in addition to common sense. I don't see how that wouldn't go with Listen/Spot. Charisma is always going to be a weak stat. How can it be improved? Half-elves could be improved. But I think this is all pointless considering 4th Edition will not be any time and i mean ANY TIME soon.
narukagami 12-27-05, 07:26 PM	If this 4.0 garbage keeps up, I can forsee bringing it up getting added as a Violation to the CoC. See, the joy of d20 is its flexability, if you don't like something change it! If you don't wanna do the work yourself, or have nothing to discuss about something that should be changed other than ****ing and moaning about it, stop whining! waits for WizOs to come lock the thread* :waits:
Wrong 12-27-05, 07:32 PM	I don't want 4.0 D&D ! I want an Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 3rd edition ! :P
MessiahOmega 12-27-05, 07:44 PM	i hope to see......................NO 4th EDITION. at least not for 5 or 6 years. dont need it, dont want it.
Xyl 12-28-05, 12:13 AM	If and when 4th edition happens, it won't be a minor change like 3.5e - no messing around with half-elves' stats. Guessing about what it might entail is pointless. I expect it won't appear until the accumulated rules cruft of 3.x becomes so heavy that it's simplest to wipe it out and start over, which will hopefully be many years down the road.
WhtKnt 12-28-05, 12:26 AM	What is this obession people have with 4E? Cheese and rice! If it ain't broke, etc. 3.5 works just fine (3.0 worked fine, for that matter). If something sticks out in your mind as needing to be changed, then change it! There's a reason I say that I play version 3.75j. My campaign uses the 3.5 core rules, plus several variant rules from more books than I care to mention, plus a few throwbacks from 3E that I didn't appreciate being altered, and a few special touches all my own (the "j" stands for John). Being a DM means never having to say, "I wish they'd make a so that it works like b."
Andrew_980 12-28-05, 01:02 AM	I hate it when folks flip out when someone mentions 4.0, they are probably the same types that would have a fit over someone bringing up anything being made after 3.0 :D They did it before and can do it again.
WhtKnt 12-28-05, 02:56 AM	I hate it when folks flip out when someone mentions 4.0, they are probably the same types that would have a fit over someone bringing up anything being made after 3.0 :D They did it before and can do it again.Actually, I consider 3.5 an improvement over 3E, just as I considered 3E a vast improvement over the travesty that was 2E. However, a thread of this nature gets started about four times a week, usually by a newcomer to the boards who hasn't noticed the 14,569 other 4E threads already in existence. Will it eventually happen? Probably. Is it worth worrying over right now? No. As I and others have already pointed out; if you don't like something, change it! That's your prerogative as a DM.
WhtKnt 12-28-05, 03:03 AM	And just to stay on topic, Wisdom works fine for an acuity test. Wisdom is, according to the SRD, "...a character’s willpower, common sense, perception, and intuition. While Intelligence represents one’s ability to analyze information, Wisdom represents being in tune with and aware of one’s surroundings." Sounds like Spot and Listen skills should be tied to Wisdom to me. Charisma doesn't need improvement. The way people use Charisma in the game needs improvement. DMs who find their players using Charisma as a dump stat should develop a few encounters that require high Charisma to resolve successfully.
Tyler Do'Urden 12-28-05, 04:20 AM	My expectations for 4th edition include not coming out for a good [goshdarn] long time. These are some expensive books and I'd rather not have them all rendered obsolete within the next, say, five years. How about ten?
Dreamstryder 12-28-05, 04:46 AM	It could be that 4e will be d20, but the classes will become more like kits, & you can just pick your abilities & save/etc progression sets similar to the generic classes in UA (Guardians of Order followed this idea in besm d20 already). I suspect that, now that Wizards is doing D&D, their revisions will be more like M:tG revisions: fairly non-major.
Seldarin 12-28-05, 05:27 AM	Another 4.0 ****** topic....ZzZzZzZ Congratulations, you started the 309,577,209th topic about this subject... Grrr....
thought_riot 12-28-05, 09:32 AM	It could be that 4e will be d20, but the classes will become more like kits, & you can just pick your abilities & save/etc progression sets similar to the generic classes in UA (Guardians of Order followed this idea in besm d20 already). I suspect that, now that Wizards is doing D&D, their revisions will be more like M:tG revisions: fairly non-major. If it isnt a major revision, they wouldn't release an entire new edition for it. I think if they wanted to change something, they'd simply announce it, either online, in a new book (non-core), or both, and let the DMs choose if they wanna use it or not. That's the great thing about 3.5, flexibility.
babysamurai 12-28-05, 10:00 AM	Magic of Incarnum and Psionics included in core.
I_Strahd 12-28-05, 12:56 PM	do you hear that.......its the natives in the web getting restless. RUN FOR COVER YOUNG ONE! I CANT HOLD THEM FOR LONG! is he gone yet?
Stormonu 12-28-05, 01:38 PM	4.0 probably won't be out for another 4-5 years. Still, there is some things I'd like seen brought into the core rulebooks, maybe as a "revised and expanded" version like they did between 3.0 and 3.5. 1) Add Swift and Immediate Actions to the core rules 2) Fighter feat chains that have feats at 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th, 11th, 13th, 15th and 17th level (i.e., along the same lines as spells). Same could be done with other classes. Introduce fighter "specialists" who specialize in feat chains (at the cost of being denied access to other chains - similar in idea to wizard specialists). 3) Move the Complete classes (Warlock, Favored Soul, Scout, Healer) to the PHB. 4) Move some of the gear, magic items, spells and whatnot from other sources into the core books. 5) Update all core rules errata into a non-leatherbound volume of the book!
Wolfen Fenrison 12-28-05, 02:51 PM	why, why, why, WHY!!!! it seems to me that people that want all this stuff added to the "core 4th ed" books are just to lazy to buy the books that these rules come in, get a copy of the SRD, look up new rules in the glossery and stop whining. i mean really wizards has sunk more time and money into 3.5 than 3.0 do any of you really think that they would just throw it all away to make a new addition to add stuff to the core books (which wouldn't warent a new addition anyways) or change the system so much that conversion would be to much hassle (at least the conversion from 3.0 to 3.5 was easy).
WayneTheGame 12-28-05, 02:56 PM	No, the reason people want things put into the core rules is so they're considered CORE. Not everyone allows the use of any and all books, you know. And a lot of good some builds/suggestions are when you can't use half of it because the group you play in won't ALLOW things from the Complete/Races/Whatever series.
Wolfen Fenrison 12-28-05, 03:24 PM	this is just me but in the game i run i allow anything that is official WotC material no matter the source be in dungeon/dragon magazine, stuff off the WotC website, and any WotC books, other than that its not in my game period. i find this is a great way to do things as makes keeping track of stuff my players use easy and it keeps out all that unbalanced 3rd party stuff.
WayneTheGame 12-28-05, 03:31 PM	this is just me but in the game i run i allow anything that is official WotC material no matter the source be in dungeon/dragon magazine, stuff off the WotC website, and any WotC books, other than that its not in my game period. i find this is a great way to do things as makes keeping track of stuff my players use easy and it keeps out all that unbalanced 3rd party stuff. Yes but not everyone does that. My group rarely allows things from the Complete books, and NEVER anything from Dragon/Dungeon. So having all those things considered "core" would help me out a lot. Each his own, however.
rbrt_Spade 12-28-05, 03:44 PM	this is just me but in the game i run i allow anything that is official WotC material no matter the source be in dungeon/dragon magazine, stuff off the WotC website, and any WotC books, other than that its not in my game period. i find this is a great way to do things as makes keeping track of stuff my players use easy and it keeps out all that unbalanced 3rd party stuff. You do know that a lot of 3rd party things are good. -White Wolf & Solveen Stone(maker of dlcs supplements) are good balanced things. Also from what I hear, Midnights good to. When and IF 4e comes out, I will buy the core only & a campaign setting. I see no point in buying all the new books over again in my 3.0 & 3.5 books. I will still play them like people still play 2e. The mods should make one of these things a sticky or band these things. :rolleyes:
Wolfen Fenrison 12-28-05, 05:22 PM	on every 4e thread someone drags out a quote from one of the designers (which i can't find) that states that there is NO consideration on making a fourth edition, and i personaly think that the WizOs should ban the subject as it is amounts to as much as treads bashing D&D ie. nothing constructive and a waste of space and time.
WhtKnt 12-28-05, 07:48 PM	Magic of Incarnum and Psionics included in core.As I use neither, I don't want them included in core. However, since I do use Green Ronin's Psychic's Handbook, AC as DR, wounds/vitality in place of hit points, and the silver standard, I think these should be core. The point is, everyone wants their favorite material to be core, when all you really need to do is add it to your game. If your DM won't allow it, maybe you should find a new DM or else talk to the one you have. Personally, if someone wants to use something "unofficial," all they need to do is provide me a reference (if I don't own it, they have to lend me the book) and a chance to read over the material. If I feel it is balanced for my game, I'll permit it. If not, I don't.
Thurbane 12-28-05, 09:27 PM	My hopes for 4.0 is that it is a LONG way in the future. I'm just glad I went straight from 2E to 3.5E, and didn't get gouged on 3E. But when it does come about, please make 4E more "backward compatible" with earlier editions than what 3E/3.5E did. D20 system is great and all, but it has rendered 90% of my sizeable 1E/2E supplement collection unusable without HOURS of conversions. 2E was much more back compatible friendly with 1E...
Sigurd van Norhusen 12-29-05, 05:24 AM	See, the joy of d20 is its flexability, if you don't like something change it! If you don't wanna do the work yourself, or have nothing to discuss about something that should be changed other than ***ing and moaning about it, stop whining! And if you attempt to change something you really don't like, you get **** and moaned at, and told that you should play GURPS or some White Wolf games. So stop screaming!
yeknom 12-29-05, 05:26 AM	My hope for 4e is that somone will ban the mention of it on these boards until WoTC decides it is time to prepare for it.
WhtKnt 12-29-05, 10:40 AM	My hopes for 4.0 is that it is a LONG way in the future. I'm just glad I went straight from 2E to 3.5E, and didn't get gouged on 3E. But when it does come about, please make 4E more "backward compatible" with earlier editions than what 3E/3.5E did. D20 system is great and all, but it has rendered 90% of my sizeable 1E/2E supplement collection unusable without HOURS of conversions. 2E was much more back compatible friendly with 1E...Really? People keep complaining about that, but I've converted most every module I intend to recycle with a minimum (usually about an hour, maybe two) effort. That's less time than I would spend plotting out and preparing an adventure (anywhere between 12 and 36 hours). The only place it breaks down is with NPCs, which require some decision making. And you must understand that earlier editions did not use a very comprehensive skill system. You typically had the skill (non-weapon proficiency) or you didn't. 3E requires a little more thought.
WhtKnt 12-29-05, 10:45 AM	And if you attempt to change something you really don't like, you get ****** and moaned at, and told that you should play GURPS or some White Wolf games. So stop screaming!No, that is usually the result of someone crying that WotC should make that change core or otherwise official. If it's for your game, I could care less what you do, as it really doesn't affect me. I see something I don't like, I change it. You don't have to like it. The only ones I have to please are myself and my players. If it is used at your table and you and your players are happy, who am I to tell you that you're doing it wrong? Who is WotC to tell you that you have to change? Who is some faceless name on these boards to try to correct a game that is working for you?
Vaalingrade Ashland 12-29-05, 12:17 PM	I want them to be truthful and call the next edition 5e.
Arrowhen 12-29-05, 01:32 PM	Ok, I'll actually answer one of these threads for a change. In the next edition, I'd like to see as many options for campaign customization as the current edition has for character customization. So if I wanted to run, for example, a campaign with Lovecraft-style magic and brutal, deadly combat, I wouldn't have to come up with my own rules for those things or try to kludge them in from other systems. I'd just pick the options I wanted and tell my prospective players, "Ok, I'm starting a campaign using the Rare Ritual Magic, Sanity, and Gritty Combat systems, anyone interested?" I wouldn't have to present them with 40 pages of well-meaning but horribly flawed house rules, because those (balanced, playtested) options would be available in the core rules, allowing them to make an informed decision as to whether or not my campaign style was right for them
DangerDre 12-30-05, 06:03 AM	I got angry when I heard 3.5 came out. Just after I bought my 3.0 What a waste of money.. now all my friends are cooler than me and I have to up grade.. including 3.5 DMG!?! I see allot of books out their. They are all $50.00 What do you need a DMG II for? Why can't they make it soft cover? I bought some books. Like the Draconomicon. Crap! I look in other books. For the price, they don't give enough detail, info or pictures!! I found the Draconomicon to be lacking! among others. They just threw stuff together. sloppy. make a pretty dollar. 4.0 ?? !! um.. That would Peave me off. WotC ? Im looking for another company to deal with. Greedy commercialist. ... :ahem: :rant: :tantrum: :banghead: :censored: :headexplo :thumbsdow :rant:
thought_riot 12-30-05, 09:59 AM	I see allot of books out their. They are all $50.00 What do you need a DMG II for? Why can't they make it soft cover? What world do youlive in? 50 dollars? I see the market price for most of the books to be 30,35, or 40, amazon has them for 20, 25, or 30. You don't need DMG II. They released it as an extra resource for DMs, WHO WANT IT. You don't NEED to buy it. They don't make any books except adventures soft cover. The mentality that you need to buy every book WotC releases is what gets everyone thinking that WotC is a huge, horrible, brainwashing, greedy corporation that just wants your money. YOU BUY WHAT YOU WANT TO BUY. WOTC DOESNT CHOOSE THAT.
Nidair 12-30-05, 12:29 PM	YOU BUY WHAT YOU WANT TO BUY. WOTC DOESNT CHOOSE THAT. Huzzah for RPGA. Oh, and I want DnD to become a flexible system again where the DM has power over mechanical elements of the game, as opposed to 3.5's static rulemonger-favoring system.
rbrt_Spade 12-30-05, 12:34 PM	Huzzah for RPGA. Oh, and I want DnD to become a flexible system again where the DM has power over mechanical elements of the game, as opposed to 3.5's static rulemonger-favoring system. Ive seen the RPGAs rules, they have a lot of good tweeks to the system. But so many changes, you basicly learn a whole new phb.
SinisterSeraph 12-30-05, 08:07 PM	What I expect from 4th edition is that it'll be released, it will ignore even more of the vast wealth of past material and information in favor of more influence from anime and such, version 4.5 will be released about a year afterwards, and people will start "Version 5.0" threads within a week of it's debut.
sandskimmer 12-30-05, 09:56 PM	Why, oh why has this thread not been locked, killed, utterly destroyed so as to never be resurrected even by a greater deity yet? Afterall, there has to be about a 1,000 or more people out there just itching to start their own 4.0 thread the very mircosecond this one dies because their memories obviously don't last any longer than that, which is why we get so many of these pointless, and un-wanted threads about 4.0. LIVE THE PRESENT!!!!
I_Strahd 12-30-05, 11:12 PM	What world do youlive in? 50 dollars? I see the market price for most of the books to be 30,35, or 40, amazon has them for 20, 25, or 30. You don't need DMG II. They released it as an extra resource for DMs, WHO WANT IT. You don't NEED to buy it. They don't make any books except adventures soft cover. The mentality that you need to buy every book WotC releases is what gets everyone thinking that WotC is a huge, horrible, brainwashing, greedy corporation that just wants your money. YOU BUY WHAT YOU WANT TO BUY. WOTC DOESNT CHOOSE THAT. he lives in toronto. enough said. or not. my monster manual costed 19.95 u.s. and it would cost 27.95 can. :eek: