Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Madacapa 03-24-06, 11:45 AM	According to Monte Cook, from his web site, he predicts that D&D will put at a 4th edition by 2008 or 2009. To read it for yourself check out the link below. He wrote that an announcement may come out in 2007. He was not clear whether or not it would be a good thing. In my opinion, there should be a fourth edition, and it should be modeled after Muntants and Masterminds. Of course, I could be wrong... :eek: http://www.montecook.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?mc_los_155
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 03-24-06, 12:15 PM	Right on schedule. Have we implemented hellbans for people who post 4e threads yet?
Thorak 03-24-06, 12:32 PM	While I see Mr. Cook's point, I'm of the opinion that there won't be a 4th edition. The reason being that very backlash Mr. Cook mentions after the release of 3.5. They'd have yet another, losing yet more business, by putting out another edition. That said, I do expect to see a "3.75" edition come out. They may even call it 4th edition, but the hallmark will be whether it is essentially the same system. What I expect is that the new version will essentially be 3.5 with two things done; the full Errata current at time of printing included from day one, plus rewordings of certain key passages to make the FAQ unnecessary (for those questions), so that at the time of printing, they can abandon the old Errata and FAQ and start fresh. There may be a few other minor changes, but overall I expect fewer changes than there were from 3.0 to 3.5. Because the more significant the changes, the more players won't buy the new stuff. They hit that problem with the first change, they need to be really careful about doing it again.
Madacapa 03-24-06, 12:33 PM	Right on schedule. Have we implemented hellbans for people who post 4e threads yet? What do you mean by hellbans? Do you want them to ban me from the boards for talking about D&D 4th Edition? I really didn't know that it was a controversial subject. Was it my reference to Monte Cook? I didn't know he was an enemy. I thought we were all friends here... :confused:
Bruunwald 03-24-06, 12:46 PM	What do you mean by hellbans? Do you want them to ban me from the boards for talking about D&D 4th Edition? I really didn't know that it was a controversial subject. Was it my reference to Monte Cook? I didn't know he was an enemy. I thought we were all friends here... :confused: 4th Edition rumors have been spreading since 3.5 came out. It's a touchy subject for many, mainly because who wants another all-new system at $40 a book? The person was being funny at your expense while simultaneously venting his frustration with seeing yet another 4th Edition thread. We get at least one a week, sometimes several. So, yes, unfortunately, it is a controversial subject and some flaming may occur from it. Keep a bottle of Neosporin handy.
DanjaNinja 03-24-06, 12:49 PM	What do you mean by hellbans? Do you want them to ban me from the boards for talking about D&D 4th Edition? I really didn't know that it was a controversial subject. Was it my reference to Monte Cook? I didn't know he was an enemy. I thought we were all friends here... :confused: Monte Cook is loved here. 4th edition speculation, however, is not. It's annoying and overdone, and frankly there's not much to say. There is eventually going to be a 4th edition, but that's about all anyone knows at this point.
Diet_Sunkist 03-24-06, 02:55 PM	Agreed. I just paid $120 for three more D&D books, I've been playing for years, and it still is way too complicated to even begin to explain to a newcomer. And another edition would be just the WRONG thing right now.
Diet_Sunkist 03-24-06, 02:57 PM	Oh, one more thing. A hellban is a bit harsh, at least for this guy. It wasn't too bad, plus it wasn't his idea.
Seeker95 03-24-06, 03:50 PM	[...]it still is way too complicated to even begin to explain to a newcomer. [...] another edition would be just the WRONG thing right now.Not to foment rumors, but would not simplification of the rules be a perfectly good reason to make a 4th edition?
Tzor 03-24-06, 03:57 PM	I think it is important to note that Monte's comments were within a general discussion of the OGL. The talk about 4E is not really about a new edition, but of a closed edition - a radical philosophy that would hurt the industry in the long run. Even Monte's a bit young to remember the "fun" of first edition, but his predictions seem precisely what had happened back in the 80's. "And even if Wizards took away the d20 license and didn't update the SRD, if 4th Edition still used hit points, Armor Class, six ability scores 3-18, and so on, it would be easy enough to create material under the existing OGL pretty compatible with 4th Edition." There were a number of systems and supplements using the vague 3d6 system. Some supplements tried to across the many different systems out there at the time. "All The World's Monsters," which had three three volumes was one such work. And this was back in the days when the DMG had a statement that reccomended only AD&D figures because those were the only ones that one could rely on to be true to scale.
Illion the Red 03-24-06, 04:06 PM	Not to foment rumors, but would not simplification of the rules be a perfectly good reason to make a 4th edition? A "simplification" of the rules would probably invalidate the hundreds of dollars of books sitting in my bookcase - and lead me to stop buying books for a long time.
Diet_Sunkist 03-24-06, 04:09 PM	Simplification would only mess things up.
celtredleg 03-24-06, 04:39 PM	A "simplification" of the rules would probably invalidate the hundreds of dollars of books sitting in my bookcase - and lead me to stop buying books for a long time. Absolutely true for me as well. I mostly like the current system.. Aradical change would put me in the camp of those old 2nd eders out there who dont buy anything. I pick up a book a month or so now. New system, I would have to continue with what I have.
Diet_Sunkist 03-24-06, 04:44 PM	Yeah, well it's gotta happen someday, and when we do, we will be angry, and buy the damn books anyway. Kudos to madacapa for bringing this unhappy subject up.
Tyler Do'Urden 03-24-06, 06:49 PM	Not I. I expect I'll not be playing this game by the time a fourth edition gets pinched out.
Dench 03-24-06, 08:18 PM	I won't be playing any 4th edition that comes out. My D&D books cost me money, and I won't throw them away because someone had the idea to launch another type of system. That's stupid. :rolleyes: Yeah, I'm an anti-4th edition propaganda guy.
DungeonMaster 03-24-06, 08:32 PM	I'll be more than interested in a new edition in 2007 or 2008. There are plenty of cracks that have become apparent in the 3rd edition framework (many from the first few years - that 3.5 did nothing to address) that a 4th edition can shore up. There are plenty of gamers like myself that bought 3rd edition and ignored 3.5 because of its overall lower quality who will embrace a slicker, cleaner edition. A hash job such as Thorak suggests would be the worst thing that could happen.
Mitchell 03-24-06, 11:06 PM	Sure. If it's just a clean-up, I'd be good with it. Most of the older stuff would still be fine with little or no tweaking, and all I would have to do is rebuy core and then pick and choose from the other new books. If it's a total makeover, I'm not good with it. In my little group we have plenty of books to fuel many an adventure. Why would I want to go buy a whole new product? Besides, the 3.5 books that retailers have would generally get marked down, allowing me (us) to buy what we don't have for a lower price.
ManTimeForgot 03-25-06, 03:13 AM	1) I am totally 100% for the OGl, and its continued existence. If all of a sudden 4.0 whenever it comes around (hopefully not for a while) did not have an OGL, then I would be most displeased with wizards/hasbro. (I honestly didn't think it was too bad when MtG parent company picked up TSR since I figured that both MtG and D&D were shared hobbies by a great many of players, but I have to be honest in saying that Hasbro picking up the newly formed wizards scared me, since Hasbro's interaction with the "geek" populations was much less). 2) I actually would like to see a 4.0 IF it doesn't make mechanical changes so much as structural changes. Allow me to elucidate further on what I mean. Currently there is a power discrepancy between non-casters and casters. This has a little bit to do with the power progression of the classes. A little bit to do with some spells which have "frayed edges" that allow for "unintended" uses (like wall of iron sales). A little bit to do with the "default" campaign setting not being able to contain high magic powers. Quite simply human societies in most campaigns are not capable of absorbing the impact that a 20th level wizard/sorceror is capable of bringing to bare. This is a function of the lack of magical nature for most races, but also because most towns aren't high magic environments (it's not like there is a magic carpet taxi service, a local scryer, a general store for magical components, buffing/healing services at every corner, and giant protective bubbles around every town). And it has a little bit to do with just the general nature of magical ability (quite simply the ability to rework the laws of physics on a conditional basis is extremely powerful tactically in addition to its functional benefits). Perhaps the last concept is the hardest to understand exactly what I am saying. But I believe I have an example which illustrates just what I am trying to get across: If you were to introduce a person with 5 pound telekinesis (mage hand) that could do this at will, then this person would very quickly become one of the most sought after/powerful individuals on the planet. They would be trained by the government in order to go on all manner of espionage missions where telekinesis would allow someone to not leave any traces. As a conditional benefit telekinesis has allowed someone to engage in behavior which vastly exceeds the normal ability to perform espionage. Simply put as long as the mechanics of the game (BAB, HP, Saving throws, Combat maneuvers: ala bullrush, Action types: ala standard versus full round, and ability types: supernatural versus extraordinary) remains virtually the same, then I would have no problem with a fairly large structural overhaul to the game. Structural in this case refers to power relations, spell levels, which abilities are of what type, how often an ability can be performed, etc. MTF
The White Sorcerer 03-25-06, 06:55 AM	Change the word "rumors" in the thread title to "speculation."
Ut-Napishtim 03-25-06, 08:38 AM	There may be a few other minor changes, but overall I expect fewer changes than there were from 3.0 to 3.5. Because the more significant the changes, the more players won't buy the new stuff. They hit that problem with the first change, they need to be really careful about doing it again. Really? That's weird. I actually resisted converting to 3.5 for a long time because on casual inspection it didn't seem that much had changed. After discovering the extent of the changes I realized it was different enough to warrant purchasing the books. There are plenty of gamers like myself that bought 3rd edition and ignored 3.5 because of its overall lower quality who will embrace a slicker, cleaner edition. What the hell are you talking about? The 3.5 books (see above) were almost exactly the same as the 3E ones right down to the art, aside from the rules changes that were implemented. Lower quality, eh? Okay, you go on with your DR 10/+2 bad self. :bored:
Rivelstraz 03-25-06, 09:27 AM	3.5 edition was a backstab on my wallet. To be honest, I wouldn't have bought all the 3.0 stuff I bought if I knew that with the three 3.5 core books and the four complete ones I'd have enough. Now I got lots of books nobody reads taking dust on my shelves. I would not even consider buying a fourth edition before 2008. A 3.75 version wouldn't be welcome by me neither. So yes, casters at higher levels are overpowered compared to melee (warriors and rogues especially). So well, we'll have to deal with it somehow.
Shrindi 03-25-06, 10:00 AM	This perspective is from a relatively new player. I have been playing for only a couple of months now. If a new edition comes out then that will hurt me in the pocket badly. I would be pretty mad and would hope that the dm for our group would hold off on upgrading. A new edition would suck. There is no good reason for it other than Hasbro greed.
Madacapa 03-25-06, 10:14 AM	This perspective is from a relatively new player. I have been playing for only a couple of months now. If a new edition comes out then that will hurt me in the pocket badly. I would be pretty mad and would hope that the dm for our group would hold off on upgrading. A new edition would suck. There is no good reason for it other than Hasbro greed. That is what its all about. If Hasbro thinks it can make money with a 4th Edition, then it will come out. I think that Wizards puts out too many products right now. I really can't keep up with them all. They should put out fewer products, and make them worthwhile. If they make a 4th edition, then they will have to radically change the game. I'd like to see an optional points based system, similar to Muntants and Masterminds, but that's just my opinion.
Araciel 03-25-06, 04:09 PM	i'm all for 4th ed....if it becomes the new SRD available for download, i won't have to buy a single new book anyway....i already own so many 3.0 books and NONE of the 3.5 books and my players do quite well if i explain things that have changed with the new edition, since they all own a computer, they can peruse the rule system at their leisure on the SRD and depend on me for the "story bits"
Andrew_980 03-25-06, 04:30 PM	Eh, I refused to buy the 3.5 books because i knew it would only be a few more years before 4e, and 3.5 didn't change enough to be worth buying. maybe 4e will be worth my money.
Rocketboy13 03-25-06, 04:32 PM	If a 4th comes, it would have to be strictly supior to garner the necessary numbers just to remain in existance. It would be like new coke, an unmitigated disaster. Though if it was strictly superior, I would probly convert, even though I have a huge collection of books. Part of playing Magic so long has led to a collector mentality, I would be perfectly happy having and using a new set even though I had an entire library of unused 3.0 and 3.5 books on the shelf.
Araciel 03-25-06, 04:39 PM	funny how you should mention ma...mag....i can't even say it, but the other product the wiz machine pumps out and wants us to continue to buy, which features new and inventive ways to draw cards from a deck evere month or so
Andrew_980 03-25-06, 04:50 PM	They would scare off less customers by selling a cheap few page errata book to fix a few little problems instead of a new edition of 40$ books
Ranger REG 03-25-06, 07:00 PM	Not to foment rumors, but would not simplification of the rules be a perfectly good reason to make a 4th edition? Do we get to have 4e books for free if we sent in our UPC labels from our 3e books? :bored: No matter how good the reason may be, I don't want to see 4.0e before 2010. (Yeah, I dread Monte Cook's 2008 prediction.)
Gondor 03-25-06, 07:58 PM	I suspect that most of you who complain now will be more tolerant in a few years–and even 2008 is still a few years off. In the end it will come down to money as it always has. Will profit lost to gamers who refuse to buy new products under a new edition be greater than profit gained by selling a new wave of books? At present, it probably would be–but that is why they are not releasing a new edition right now. The reliance on money isn't a bad thing; Hasbro "greed" is what made the game what it is today. It doesn't mean that the developers aren't also gamers and don't care about content. It doesn't mean that we should expect a ceaseless line of aggressively marketed crap in the near future. It doesn't mean that the world is going to end. It just means that there are constraints. For the record, I will probably switch to 4th edition, at least if it comes out no fewer than two years from now. 2008 doesn't bother me; and that is about the earliest they could manage it, as far as I can tell.
Otto the Bugbear 03-25-06, 08:08 PM	I'm kinda of a mixed thought on this idea. Mostly I agree with what Thorak said. A new printing of the books with the complete errata would be a good thing. This would allow us all to continue using the old books and looking up errata online, if it's applicable at all. The new books (with complete errata and FAQ updates) would be purchased by both new players, and by people who have worn their books out through careless use. I expect there would also be a few people who don't like looking up the errata and would purchase the new books just for that. In the above case, it's not even necessary to call it a new edition. Just tell it like it is -- "This new printing of the PHB contains all the updates found in the FAQ and errata files accumulated over the past X years" for example. See, I look at the d20 mechanic and think to myself how well done it is. Granted, it's not perfect. There are flaws within it. But, overall, coming up with an entirely new mechanic on which to base a new game, and have it be better than the current model, is an aweful daunting task. However... (isn't that always the case?) ManTimeForgot makes a lot of good points. Seems he's been reading my thoughts, perhaps. I see a lot of issues with the current "structure" of the game. Many of them happen to be hold-overs, or "sacred cows" from earlier versions. Many of them also can be cause for some of the worst headaches. Many of them could be dropped or radically overhauled and I'd find the gaming experience much better. Polymorph and Alignments are good examples, to name but two of them. Then, of course, there is that huge discrepency between casters and non-casters. I guess it boils down to "my vision" of D&D and how I'd change it. The list is too long to post here, and it would require a lot of thought from me, but I know there are a lot of things that I'd change, if I were king of D&D. ;) Cheers Otto :)
FlameLover 03-25-06, 08:39 PM	Just wanted to quickly ask this: Many people talk of Wizards or Hasbro 'greed'. Besides the obvious flaw in this argument (they have to make decent products to actually fullfil that greed), there is another. Is Monte Cook greedy? No you say? What about the fact he is charging $120 for his Ptolus book? What's that you say - it is worth it because of the quality and quantity of content, the hours upon hours he slaved working on it? Well looking at Wizard's $35 (is that right American? They're about $60 Australian) we can see that in ratios you're getting a similar deal ($35 for say 200pages, $120 for 672 pages). These are about 5.7 pages per dollar (Wizards) compared to 5.6 (Monte) - not much I'd say. So why does Monte Cook get hailed as a hero, while Wizards are evil thieving little gremils - just for charging a competitive price on their books, and the fact that they will (in no uncertain terms) release a 4th edition? I say it's just because they are a 'company' while Monte is a 'person'. People like to hate companies, it gives them a rebellious feeling. And I'd like to make another comparison quickly: 3.5 to 4th edition, Arcana Unearthed to Arcana Evolved. Monte's book wasn't a big change, but I didn't see hundreds of people yelling about him being a money-grabbing thingymagig (I'm not saying he is, just saying he is no less so than Wizards: who aren't. Hope that makes sense). A 4th edition in 2008 would hardly be the end of the world. They'd be a little over $100 for the 3 core books - something which like the hobby itself is entilrey optional. If you buy core only you got about 6 to 7 years out of your 3.5 books: pretty good I reckon. If you buy lots of splatbooks this is only an extra $100 fo core - then you can use your old books and buy new ones when they look interesting enough. Despite my stance on 4th edition being nothing major, though, I do wish people would stop talking about it. I and every other sane person knows that the moment 4th edition is released people will complain about it being "worse" than 3.5, and at longest a year later they'll be onto 5th edition. Let the wait begin. :waits:
LordofIllusions 03-25-06, 08:39 PM	According to Monte Cook, from his web site, he predicts that D&D will put at a 4th edition by 2008 or 2009. To read it for yourself check out the link below. He wrote that an announcement may come out in 2007. He was not clear whether or not it would be a good thing. In my opinion, there should be a fourth edition, and it should be modeled after Muntants and Masterminds. Of course, I could be wrong... :eek: http://www.montecook.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?mc_los_155 I find it funny the small handful of 4E mongers love to try to indirectly mis-lead people(by making threads like this) into thinking that: 1. Monte Cook's speculation is somehow based on fact. His very own statement debunks any 4E mongers willful lie about factually knowing that a 4E is coming soon. As Monte Cook himself said: Let me preface this by saying that nothing I'll write here on the subject of 4th Edition is based on any kind of direct knowledge. No one's told me a thing. 2. The 4E monger crowd would have you think that Monte Cook agrees with rushing out another edition of D&D. His statement differs: That said, I think it maybe could come as early as 2007, with an announcement this year. If that were to happen, however, and I was working on D&D at Wizards, I'd polish up my resume, because a release that soon would seem to indicate that Hasbro was forcing the issue; it would suggest the corporation wants squeeze the game for what it was worth and then dump it, because the timing would be wrong for optimal success. It would indicate that they (Hasbro) just didn't care. To be blunt, 2007 would be too early--sales would not be as good, and the finished game would likely have been rushed. It would be very bad news for the game, for people working on the game, and likely for the rpg hobby as a whole (remember, so goes Wizards...) When it comes to the small handful of annoying gnats known as the new edition mongers that start jibberish like this many would do themselves a great service to just ignore it. They are going to have you thinking that something that was not even announced is going to happen anyway. I wish I had ignored it then I would not have had to debunk this garbage. ~~~
LordofIllusions 03-25-06, 08:44 PM	Oh, one more thing. A hellban is a bit harsh, at least for this guy. It wasn't too bad, plus it wasn't his idea. My new rpg website will soon be up and the first event on it will be a relentless crusade against the handful of 4E mongers and console babies. ~~~
Always-Late 03-26-06, 02:00 AM	My new rpg website will soon be up and the first event on it will be a relentless crusade against the handful of 4E mongers and console babies. ~~~QMG! 4E should be just like World of Warcraft! That would be the COOLEST GAME EVAR! I'm guessing that 4E, when it comes out, will look a lot more like 3E than 3E did 2E and 1E.
Stev Beren 03-26-06, 07:50 AM	. .noone is going to force you to buy 4e if it comes out, and you know what? WOTC will, and should, do whatever will make them money on the game - that is if you want to see new product come out for it.
LordofIllusions 03-26-06, 09:54 AM	. .noone is going to force you to buy 4e if it comes out, and you know what? WOTC will, and should, do whatever will make them money on the game - that is if you want to see new product come out for it. Newsflash: Releasing yet another edition of D&D, within the timeframe of 2007 or 2008, would not make them the money they are looking for; as a matter of fact it would lose money as opposed to if WoTC simply continues to release accesories for the v.3.5 line. The proof is in the pudding, look at the opposition 4E threads get here on the messageboards aside from those handful of posters that just seek conflict and wish to argue over something(thus using the mythical 4E as a vessel to do what they would otherwise do anyway; troll); the majority of posters is sick to death of seeing these threads. For the longest there was a myth that WoTC made more money releasing v.3.5 than they did when 3.0 was released. Monte Cook, a game designer for WoTC, has proven that to be false(the v.3.5 sales lie was possibly yet another blatant lie spread by new edition mongers). Dropping revisions and new editions in such a close timeframe is just plain stupid, and the last stunt they pulled shows it as such. Monte Cook in the same article says that dropping another edition in such a close timeframe would be as he put it: "suggest the corporation wants squeeze the game for what it was worth and then dump it, because the timing would be wrong for optimal success. It would indicate that they (Hasbro) just didn't care. To be blunt, 2007 would be too early--sales would not be as good, and the finished game would likely have been rushed. It would be very bad news for the game, for people working on the game, and likely for the rpg hobby as a whole (remember, so goes Wizards...)". The whole "noone is going to force you to buy it" is irrelevant simply because noone has announced that it is coming (how can one force you to buy something that does not exist ?) so to make such a statement is simply......dumb. That's like getting mad because you believe in Zeus, but others refuse to worship the mythological god and you retaliating with "well noone is forcing you to worship him, but he lives anyway." LoL! In both instances you are devoid of factual information to support your belief. 4E mongers want to believe that WoTC is planning a forth edition, even though noone at WoTC has said anything. Then there is the backlash of people getting angry at, and alienating, WoTC rather than getting angry at, and alienating, the handful of new edition babies that drop a thread like this at least once a week hoping WoTC will dump a 4E mess on us that would moreso ruin the hobby rather than enhance it, as Monte Cook states in so many words: it would suggest the corporation wants squeeze the game for what it was worth and then dump it, because the timing would be wrong for optimal success. It would indicate that they (Hasbro) just didn't care. To be blunt, 2007 would be too early--sales would not be as good, and the finished game would likely have been rushed. It would be very bad news for the game, for people working on the game, and likely for the rpg hobby as a whole (remember, so goes Wizards...) CONCLUSION: It is up to the competent posters to begin ignoring these 4E monger threads and simply not entertaining the rabble they attempt to start. Their true purpose I believe is to have people talking about the mythical 4E in some hairbrained, simpleminded, medimum-like attempt to channel 4E energy and somehow influence WoTC to do something they may not even be considering at the time. Even if you are argueing with them these herbs still say to themselves "well, mission accomplished it may not exist but at least they are talking about it!" No more milk and cookies for the 4E babies. ~~~
Stev Beren 03-26-06, 09:56 AM	Newsflash: Releasing yet another edition of D&D, within the timeframe of 2007 or 2008, would not make them the money they are looking for; as a matter of fact it would lose money as opposed to if WoTC simply continues to release accesories for the v.3.5 line. The proof is in the pudding, look at the opposition 4E threads get here on the messageboards aside from those handful of posters that just seek conflict and wish to argue over something(thus using the mythical 4E as a vessel to do what they would otherwise do anyway; troll); the majority of posters is sick to death of seeing these threads. For the longest there was a myth that WoTC made more money releasing v.3.5 than they did when 3.0 was released. Monte Cook, a game designer for WoTC, has proven that to be false(the v.3.5 sales lie was possibly yet another blatant lie spread by new edition mongers). Dropping revisions and new editions in such a close timeframe is just plain stupid, and the last stunt they pulled shows it as such. Monte Cook in the same article says that dropping another edition in such a close timeframe would be as he put it: "suggest the corporation wants squeeze the game for what it was worth and then dump it, because the timing would be wrong for optimal success. It would indicate that they (Hasbro) just didn't care. To be blunt, 2007 would be too early--sales would not be as good, and the finished game would likely have been rushed. It would be very bad news for the game, for people working on the game, and likely for the rpg hobby as a whole (remember, so goes Wizards...)". The whole noone is going to force you to buy it is irrelevant in the scheme of things because noone has announced that it is coming so to make such a statement is simply......simpleminded. That's like getting mad because you believe in Zeus, but others refuse to worship the mythological god and you retaliating with "well noone is forcing you to worship him, but he lives anyway." LoL! In both instances you are devoid of factual information to support your belief. 4E mongers want to believe that WoTC is planning a forth edition, even though noone at WoTC has said anything. Then there is the backlash of people getting angry at, and alienating, WoTC rather than getting angry at, and alienating, the handful of new edition babies that drop a thread like this at least once a week hoping WoTC will dump a 4E mess on us that would moreso ruin the hobby rather than enhance it, as Monte Cook states in so many words: CONCLUSION: It is up to the competent posters to begin ignoring these 4E monger threads and simply not entertaining the rabble they attempt to start. Their true purpose I believe is to have people talking about the mythical 4E in some hairbrained, simpleminded, medimum-like attempt to channel 4E energy and somehow influence WoTC to do something they may not even be considering at the time. Even if you are argueing with them these herbs still say to themselves "well, mission accomplished it may not exist but at least they are talking about it!" No more milk and cookies for the 4E babies. ~~~ AH. .and where did you get your business degree?<G> I'm not saying I approve or disapprove. I don't have that much of an opinion either way, but this rabid opposition. ..
alder_zeal 03-26-06, 10:01 AM	Is Monte Cook greedy? No you say? What about the fact he is charging $120 for his Ptolus book? Ptulos is probably going to be the best wrote campaign setting next to Eberron. The book is the size of 2 PHBs. It comes with a CD-rom (something WotC has not even decided to do) and i believe copyable player hand outs. So as for Campaign settings You buy ECS and get so little info in the book you are running blind. So you buy supplement after supplemnent. Now they say wait all that material is old Here is 4.0 Eberron. Dont forget A Forgotten Realms the still have a lot of books to go in that setting and so now that person who has bought all supplements for forgotten realms and Both Camapign setting group bought all the complete sereies races of series and other books need to start over again. Another thing Errata enough is enough. I buy mostly WotC material get the publishing correct the first time. Too many mispelled words, missing sentences and wrongly phrased details. The main thing about 4.0 should be as stated 4.0 will consist of the most current stat blocking found in the Monster Manual with all corrected material from previously published Manuals. All Skills, Feats, Spells and Errata from 3.0 to 3.5 in the Player's handbook. In the skills it should have all uses for skills found through out the supplement books. Orcs as a playable race instead of monstrous humanoid. Spells should be updated to the most current form. Inside the DMG there should be sections on Magic of Incarnum and Psionics and official rules on what is Magic Psionic Transparency. A new faster way to create stuff including Artificer rules The final thing to get me to buy the book would be is to state it is the updated and revise core rule books. 4.0 does not need to be a brand new system it could be completely usable with all 3.5 material. They may not even need to re-write the Monster manual just the Players handbook and DMG. Learn From Monte make CD-Roms that include Character Sheets, and things that do not need to be in the PHB like the section of Deities on the Disc. On a disc for the DMG already created NPC's, THe Cosmology of D&D Eberron and the Wheel and other things that may not fit in the DMG itself
LordofIllusions 03-26-06, 10:03 AM	AH. .and where did you get your business degree?<G> I'm not saying I approve or disapprove. I don't have that much of an opinion either way, but this rabid opposition. .. I happen to own several retail businesses, not to mention that one of the WoTC employees themselves outright told you--in the article--what the sales outcome was for the last rushed revision/edition; which was not as rewarding as 3.0. Your opposition is weak, learn to comprehend next time, then respond. ALSO: If you did not have an opinion your opinion(posted above) on such matters would not exist. This logic(concerning your opinion which is plain for all to see) is quite simple to one that has common sense, really. ~~~
SinisterSeraph 03-26-06, 10:13 AM	Question: When will 4th edition come out? Answer: Three weeks before the inevitable Fifth Edition threads start appearing.
LordofIllusions 03-26-06, 10:14 AM	Question: When will 4th edition come out? Answer: Three weeks before the inevitable Fifth Edition threads start appearing. LoL! Which will be a month before the mongers start talking about a 6th edition. ~~~
WizO_Cat 03-26-06, 10:18 AM	Ok, time to close the thread. Just a quick reminder so that guests don't get Official Warns that they didn't expect: Catagorizing other posters that post something that you disagree with as "mongers", "annoying gnats", and "babies" will get you an Official Warn. It's considered baiting which is against the Code of Conduct. I'm noting it here so that both sides of the argument fully understand the implications here and thus how it will be enforced in subsequent threads. Fair warning.