Post/Author/DateTime	Post
The Vagrant 10-18-04, 12:12 AM	First, a brief story. Yesterday as I was driving myself up to my "local" game shop to celebrate D&D's 30th anniversary with a special apperance by Monte Cook, I made a sudden turn off the highway and stopped at Arby's. I suddenly no longer wished to go to the game store, nor meet Monte Cook, nor be affiliated with D&D. As I ate my #3 roast beef sandwich I questioned my sudden doubt of the game. I began listing the bad aspects of the game and how it may have negitivly affected my life, even though I am only 17. Now, unto the point of the thread. I want to know how many people are willing to admit that D&D either attracts people of certain types, or produces them. By that I mean, what negatives have you seen about this game? From the top: - I have desencitized myself to being a geek/loser, and as a result I have felt no shame in letting others know that I am - I have spent money on books I'll never use, when I could of saved it, gave it to charity, or bought some thing usefull with it - I have alienated some of my classmates in foolish attempts to get them to play D&D - I went to a game store, and everyone playing D&D were... well, complete losers. Not just "Ha ha, I'm a loser, ha ha ha let's make jokes", no. I mean real live "I have no life, and can't change my ways" losers - On many, many of the posts and threads in this website, people are either endlessly squabbeling over the same things over and over, pointing out the futility of said squabbeling in a vain attempt to sounds mature, makeing bad jokes, replying to bad jokes with worse ones, or some other equally sad activites - Defending D&D with things like: "It promotes problem solving, and math!"... Honestly... that is just stupid. I'll explain more later. - You can't tell people what you accomplished in D&D, becuase, honestly, no one cares. Even other D&D players. They'll only listen and act interested so they can rave about their own characters and stories. Tell me, who here can honestly say they care what my first character was? - During a radio broadcast of a D&D game, one of the players said that he some times wonders what he's doing with his life - My DM is in the mid/late thirties, lives alone sourounded by literly hundreds of RPG books, anime, and minis. At first I thought "Sweeeet", but then I wondered "What does he feel like at night when he's about to climb into bed?" I feel bad for him. - Many times the point coms up that people are ignorant of D&D. That they will eventually see that it's not bad, that it's just misunderstood. Ok, sure, but why are we on the defensive at all? It sounds like we think it's right to play D&D, and that you should accept it without question. Let's be clear about this though. I am not saying that D&D is bad, or that the people who play it are. I could advocate it all day, I can see many disputes agianst the points I've all ready raised. But that's not the point of this thread. I do not want pro-D&D aurguments here. Obvisly we all like D&D if were here so just shut up and do something else with your time if you plan to bring an aurgument up. I want simply what you've noticed, had seen, done, felt that has made you question your own choice in the hobby. Raise points and arugue for them. Like such: I have said that "D&D promotes math and problem solving" is a stupid aurgument, and it is. Almost all hobbies promote some healthy trait or another. Football, physical fitness and teamwork. Fishing, stress releaving and respect for the outdoors. Video games, hand eye coordination and problem solving. Reading, literacy and "smartness". For toilet sake, can't people think of something better to do with their time then actually tell other D&D players why D&D is good for you, non--the-less, using laughable points? One last time. I ask that you do not argue with me or any other poster here. I'm stateing observations, facts, and opinions. I'm not lieing, nor saying that all players are lonely fat losers. Besides, if you actually are pig-headed enough to rant about the opinions I'm presenting then you're just showing how much time you waste trying to convince people of your "I'm right, I'm better, I'm smarter, your wrong, get off the boards no one likes you" additude.
TheRedRobedWizard 10-18-04, 12:24 AM	See, it's not that you're wrong or right... It's just that no one cares. Sorry. -TRRW
The Vagrant 10-18-04, 12:45 AM	You test my restraints to point out the obvious, Human Male (Illusionist 5/Red Robe 1/Loremaster 6/Renegade Hunter 5). I'm ornery tonight.
Scotth 10-18-04, 12:53 AM	Here's an idea Vagrant; Join the Army, perhaps they will beat some pride into you. I'v been in the army for almost 20 years, I am a Sergeant Major, a combat veteran and I play D&D. Does that make me a loser? Scott
Cervantes 10-18-04, 01:29 AM	I really don't know how to respond to that. I've been playing rpgs for about ten years, starting in my early teens. With a group of 5-10 of my closest friends. We are a tightly knit group and very diverse, ten years later we are now in a early twenties and still enjoy dnd some. I really don't see us falling into any stereo types that you kind of touched on, or negativity. You stated you were 17, do you think maybe your view is skewed based on others perceptions of you? At that age it is far more prominent than it is at my age.
Telperion 10-18-04, 02:17 AM	Okay, I'll bite. Yesterday I went to a local game-evening hosted by a local RPG organization. There was an RPG there called Buffy the Vampire Slayer: the roleplaying game. At first I thought it was something so hideous (I have watched an episode or two of Buffy) that I wouldn't want to touch it under any condition. However since I'm a curious person and willing to under go a bit of mental torture to find out if something is really as horrible as it sounds I went and took a character. I selected a brawn-over-brains personal trainer who was studying in a school way up in Lapland, and just thought to have fun with it. Our GM sent us to a cottage in the middle of nowhere in the Northern regions of Finland. We were there as roleplayers and the game of choice was Vampire: the Masquarade :D. Early summer, so no more snow, but the weather certainly wasn't nice and sunny. Well, not that it mattered, as it turned out: the whole session was played out as a "cottage of horror" type of game, and it was great :)! No overly complicated rules and exceptions to said rules. No classes, restrictions or special abilities (aside from the Drama Point system, which seemed really simple). We all knew what Buffy is all about, so the mood of the game was easy to pick up. We were just a bunch of scared humans with a single shotgun for hunting, some knives from kitchen and an axe from the woodshed in middle of nowhere with monsters crawling all over the place. This was, without doubt, the single most fun session I have had during the whole year. It was such a blast that I actually looked up the core book in the internet after coming home from the game-evening. Now I'm not saying that I'll quite D&D because I like Buffy as an RPG. It's just that maybe I'll look into it and spend some time running something a little lighter. O' and there was one thing that really blew me away: Only four books have been published to this gameline, that I could find. All the books seem to serve a clear purpose, and although they are quite expensive they looked pretty and well organized :).
ImmortalBlueMage 10-18-04, 02:33 AM	*Multi-class as a Gnomish Giant Slayer to deal with this obvious Troll* :fight!: I guess that's one of those bad jokes, eh? To get serious for a moment, it seems to me that you're suffering from crtically low self-esteem (which isn't uncommon for a 17 year old) and are trying to displace the source onto something external (which isn't uncommon for anyone). If you have a councillor at your school, I suggest taking this up with him/her. If you're still convinced that D&D is the root of your evils, then walk away from the game for a while. Put your books away, stow the dice, go a few months without using the phrases "Saving throw" or "Base attack bonus" or even "All your base are belong to ours". See if you feel any better about yourself or not. One way or the other, it'll give you a good sense of perspective.
Mister Mayhem 10-18-04, 03:24 AM	So, you are willing to dismiss the positive aspects because "Other hobbies can give you the same" but not dismiss the negative aspects to which the "Other hobbies can give you the same" argument equally applies? ***** There are negative aspects to playign D&D to the exclusion of all else, but th same is true of any hobby, interest, or obsession. Being totally obsessed with D&D is bad, but so is being totally obsessed with a favourite football team or hollywood star. But as a way to entertain yourself during your free time, it has a lot more positive aspects than sitting on the couch in front of a TV. ***** And rather than making me socially unacceptable, role-playing helped me overcome my natural shyness and anti-social tendencies. It is, after all, a social activity.
DaveReaves 10-18-04, 04:08 AM	I have a similar situation to Mister Mayhem in that I was qute a recluse before I started playing D&D. I was quite the geek. I spent every night alone in front of my computer, usually using the anonymity of the internet to be a complete ass to people I knew I would never meet in real life to get my jollies before attending to unmet needs at adult web sites. Some people at school (this was about 6 years ago in middle school) started talking about dungeons and dragons and I showed up at the local comic shop, uninvited, with no friends there, with no books, with no dice, not even knowing what the game was about, and was accepted with open arms. Now I find my self spending most of my time with friends, not just playing games, but actually interacted with people who have never heard about D&D and would find a conversation about it boring as sin, so it never gets brought up. Obviously too much of anything is bad. It could be gaming, it could be your job, it could be custom cars, it could be a football team... any obsession is bad. I have friends who have totally overdone it on all of these things. Even I have spent whole days arguing the intricacies of game mechanics. But despite having become a dork (yea, you do desensitize yourself to the term, but it's not necessarily a bad thing, rednecks know there rednecks, Goths know there Goths, and so on) but I can honestly tell you I'm a better person because of Dungeons and Dragons. Were good people, deal with it.
StormKnight 10-18-04, 11:20 AM	Question my hobbies? Well, sometimes I get annoyed with other gamers. It seems like a lot of veteran gamers get entirely too stuck on "their" way of doing things which usually isn't compatabile with mine. I've pretty much stopped going to Cons and tournies, as I find them way too competitive. Other than that? Nope, never. Hell, after going to a party that mostly centered on drinking recently (and missing the Abberations pre-release to do so) both my girlfriend and I came back home and practically hugged our game collections, we were so relieved that we didn't have to put up with that kind of boredom on a regular basis. Just remember, gaming is a hobby. Its a social hobby, which you can get together and share with other people. Its a good thing to do while you gather with friends that entertains while allowing you to socialize. - I have desencitized myself to being a geek/loser, and as a result I have felt no shame in letting others know that I am Why do you say you are a geek/loser? Because playing games does not inherently make you one by any means. Oddly enough, neither does sitting around a TV munching chips and getting exceptionally worked up over OTHER PEOPLE running a ball around a field. How that doesn't make you a loser I'll never understand. - I have spent money on books I'll never use, when I could of saved it, gave it to charity, or bought some thing usefull with it Taking the family to a movie - at least $40 not counting over-priced movie refreshments. About 2 hours of entertainment. Going to a football game (by yourself) - at least $100, probably more. A few hours of entertainment. Getting a few alchoholic drinks a day - $10-20. A few minutes of enjoyment, plus potential hours of fun from damage to your body later in life. One game book - $20. A few hours of enjoyment reading, plus possibly hours, days, or even months or enjoyment from use in a game. You do the math. - I have alienated some of my classmates in foolish attempts to get them to play D&D That sounds bad. If they were your friends. If they are just "classmates", don't sweat it. Good friends won't care what your hobbies are, and there are lots of great people who do play. - On many, many of the posts and threads in this website, people are either endlessly squabbeling over the same things over and over, pointing out the futility of said squabbeling in a vain attempt to sounds mature, makeing bad jokes, replying to bad jokes with worse ones, or some other equally sad activites Congratulations, you've just defined an internet forum ;) . Go try just about any topic, you'll get the same thing. - You can't tell people what you accomplished in D&D, becuase, honestly, no one cares. Even other D&D players. They'll only listen and act interested so they can rave about their own characters and stories. Tell me, who here can honestly say they care what my first character was? Not one damn bit. Unless its amusing, or funny, or interesting, in which case, go for it. I'd much rather hear about that then how you shot a great game of golf the other day. not an exact quote)Gamers are lonely losers Um, sorry that's been your experience. Maybe its different at high school age. Most of the gamers I know at my age have excellent jobs, and are married or strongly involved. I haven't had a RPG group that's composed of other than couples in quite a while. When I was in High School, was I popular? Nope. Not even remotely. Nor did I care. I had good friends (the kind you can not only hang out with, but talk about your problems to) and lots to do, and got along fine with the casual acquaintances I did care about (mostly the theatre and speech debate set - not exactly the "popular" club). What else did I need? If you define your life by being part of the "popular" group or doing what's "trendy" or "fitting in" even at the expense of what you enjoy, you are going to live a miserable life. Do what you enjoy as best you can, focus your energy on the people that you really care about and want to be friends with, and don't worry about the rest.
Naeron 10-18-04, 12:03 PM	First, a brief story. Yesterday as I was driving myself up to my "local" game shop to celebrate D&D's 30th anniversary with a special apperance by Monte Cook, I made a sudden turn off the highway and stopped at Arby's. I suddenly no longer wished to go to the game store, nor meet Monte Cook, nor be affiliated with D&D. As I ate my #3 roast beef sandwich I questioned my sudden doubt of the game. I began listing the bad aspects of the game and how it may have negitivly affected my life, even though I am only 17. Now, unto the point of the thread. I want to know how many people are willing to admit that D&D either attracts people of certain types, or produces them. By that I mean, what negatives have you seen about this game? From the top: - I have desencitized myself to being a geek/loser, and as a result I have felt no shame in letting others know that I am Being categorised as a Geek/Loser is hardly the sole provenance of the D&D player, having no shame in the fact that other people feel the need to belittle you and categorise you is something that you should be proud of. - I have spent money on books I'll never use, when I could of saved it, gave it to charity, or bought some thing usefull with it And if you participated in any number of "mainstream" hobbies you would find yourself in a comparable situation. I'd disagree with your point about "something useful" how useful are a set of fishing flies, a football helmet (American Football of course), a basketball hoop on the garage (or is that a cliche from TV). Absolutely none unless you are using such items. - I have alienated some of my classmates in foolish attempts to get them to play D&D Well perhaps you shouldn't have tried to get them to play, if people have absolutely no interest in any hobby they will feel a degree of alienation if someone tries to get them to join in. - I went to a game store, and everyone playing D&D were... well, complete losers. Not just "Ha ha, I'm a loser, ha ha ha let's make jokes", no. I mean real live "I have no life, and can't change my ways" losers Again something that applies to a proportion of all followers of a particular hobby. Every hobby attracts its share of losers but there is nothing about D&D that prevents its participants having a life if they decide to go out and get one. As a "strange" hobby D&D may indeed attract more than the usual number of "losers and misfits" but that is probably because it provides a haven for such people because of its categorisation as a hobby for "losers". As "outcasts", if I may use that world in its loosest sense, D&D players are normally more accepting of other "outcasts" than people in mainstream hobbies. - On many, many of the posts and threads in this website, people are either endlessly squabbeling over the same things over and over, pointing out the futility of said squabbeling in a vain attempt to sounds mature, makeing bad jokes, replying to bad jokes with worse ones, or some other equally sad activites This is a common factor of bulletin boards in general rather than D&D boards in particular. - You can't tell people what you accomplished in D&D, becuase, honestly, no one cares. Even other D&D players. They'll only listen and act interested so they can rave about their own characters and stories. Tell me, who here can honestly say they care what my first character was? Few people outside a hobby really care about what a hobbyist accomplishes. Would I care about that someone just bought a 1956 10c stamp with an aeroplane on it, not at all. But another stamp collecter might. - During a radio broadcast of a D&D game, one of the players said that he some times wonders what he's doing with his life I wonder what I'm doing with my life sometimes, but that more related to how much I am enjoying my job. - My DM is in the mid/late thirties, lives alone sourounded by literly hundreds of RPG books, anime, and minis. At first I thought "Sweeeet", but then I wondered "What does he feel like at night when he's about to climb into bed?" I feel bad for him. But many DM's are different. My DM is married with 2 kids, has a very well paid job and enjoys life. In fact all the players in my group are married, most with kids. - Many times the point coms up that people are ignorant of D&D. That they will eventually see that it's not bad, that it's just misunderstood. Ok, sure, but why are we on the defensive at all? It sounds like we think it's right to play D&D, and that you should accept it without question. Its right that people be allowed to play D&D and that other people should accept our right to play it. We don't have a right to force our D&D on people who have no interest in it, nor should we expect that right. Conversely we must respect other peoples rights to enjoy their hobbies, however strange we may personally find them. In essence all these "problems" that you attribute to D&D are just as true of hundreds of other minority hobbies.
Damien_Hiro 10-18-04, 01:59 PM	Hey I am in the Army, serving for the past eight years. I spend two of the past three years in Iraq and Afghanistan chasing bad guys in helicopters. I played D&D with at least a hundred soldiers since I have been in. I toted a M16A2 with an M203 grenade launcher and I manned a m-60 machine gun while serving as a door gunner. I am married to a beautiful women and have a daughter. I have been playing D&D since I was ten. I have a good job and love playing D&D and I am not ashamed of telling anyone. I was a jock in high school that played D&D, but no one made fun of me for that. They made fun of me because I was the only asian kid in school, but after a few fights that was through. Playing a game does not make a person a loser. It is how a person sees themselves and the world around them. I have done things that few people have ever done in their lives and I lived real adventures while serving the Army. I know the aldrenaline rush of a firefight and the God awlful pain of losing a brother or sister in combat. I have soared above the desert and seen the full moon in its night sky. I laughed and cried, but went on. I still play D&D because it is fun for me, it is a part of my adulthood that connects me with my childhood. I get to hang out with my friends once a week and my family enjoys watching us play. I do not let society define me or belittle my life's accomplishments, neither should you. You are 17 and have a lifetime ahead of you. Think long and hard before you cast that stone. Am I a loser?
chesstiger 10-18-04, 03:47 PM	Well, after a long think, I can't think of anything bad about D&D. I still have friends that don't play. I haven't chucked them aside because of them not playing D&D. :eek:
Sulaco 10-18-04, 04:54 PM	That fact that you choose to go to Arby's makes me doubt your taste. The fact that you choose Arby's over D&D makes me doubt your sanity. That fact that you posted this thread makes me doubt your sincerity.
The Vagrant 10-18-04, 10:00 PM	Ok, let me rephrase this in other words: Let us list the negative aspects of the game and the gaming life for un, instead of just sitting around talking about how much we love it. Why? Because it somthing new to do. Do I hate D&D? No, it's fun and a good hobby and I never said other wise. Did I say all gamers are losers? No, but some are and even those who aren't enjoy prodding fun at themselves by calling themselves so. I'd complain and crab some more but I'm watching a bad movie so bye for now.
The_one_wit_a_reason 10-18-04, 10:01 PM	i admit i spend too much money on my gameing stuff books warhammer models cards intsead of cds and move tickets with my nongaming freinds dos that make me a loser NO!!! that makes me a hobbyist i play and start on my football team i skateboard i go to the mall i do fantasy foot ball i like to play dnd on the weekends i can do that but if i start to value it over my freinds ill stop for a year and restart do that for awhile and rethink if you still think that fine stop gaming but you probably wont
Bacon and Eggs 10-18-04, 10:06 PM	Theres more negative things to say about those kinds of people who post on message boards. You know who you are! <_< >_>
ImmortalBlueMage 10-19-04, 05:59 AM	If you're looking for a group of people who are going to spend time pointing outthe bad things about D&D, this is about the worst place to find it.
StormKnight 10-19-04, 09:38 AM	Let us list the negative aspects of the game and the gaming life for un, instead of just sitting around talking about how much we love it. Of the game? Er, well... Its not as good for running a Buffy the Vampire Slayer themed game as Buffy the Vampire Slayer is. Its experience system isn't as good as Ironclaws. ...but those aren't really what you're looking for, is it? Of the gaming life? Reduces amount of time spent zombified in the front of the TV to sub-standard levels, thus not keeping up the traditionally high American TV watching standards. Promotes sociability and interaction, the utter anti-thesis of the increasing trend of a self-service and internet based world. Redirects money for entertainment that could be going to poor starving multi-millionaire athletes and movie stars. Encourages creativity, imagination, and use of the mind. This is getting into really dangerous stuff here! Can put a serious drain on a person's shelf space. How are those?
MadApplejack 10-19-04, 09:43 AM	Just what is that makes a person a loser? And who gets to decide? I gave up a great-paying job with a promising chance of promotion to go back to school to do something entirely different. I have no job, no girlfriend, no money, and I live with my parents; in my free time, I play D&D. I don't feel anything like a loser, though I fit the bill. You only become a loser when you let other people's opinions of you determine what you do with your life. :teach:
DaveReaves 10-20-04, 02:51 PM	That fact that you choose to go to Arby's makes me doubt your taste. No reason to drag Arby's into the mix... besides its good food. Ever have the Roast Beef and Cheedar? It comes on an onion role and you can have steak fries OR Curly fries! YOUR CHOISE! Ummmm, Arby's..... As a mater of fact, the only bad thing I can think about gaming is that the comic shop I play in is a town with no Arby's.
Disturbed1 10-20-04, 04:31 PM	First, a brief story. From the top: - I have desencitized myself to being a geek/loser, and as a result I have felt no shame in letting others know that I am response: you are only a geek or a loser if that is how you see yourself. If others put you down and call you those names because of a hobby that you have, and you enjoy spending time on, then they are simply being closed minded. - I have spent money on books I'll never use, when I could of saved it, gave it to charity, or bought some thing usefull with it response: every hobby is like that. ill use examples for the other things you named: football, fishing, and reading. all you will do with the things for those activities is to participate in THAT activity. You wont do anything with a book other than read it, etc. - I have alienated some of my classmates in foolish attempts to get them to play D&D response: you shouldnt let something like this get in the way of a friendshio. if they dont want to play, then its their loss, and you can keep playing without them. - I went to a game store, and everyone playing D&D were... well, complete losers. Not just "Ha ha, I'm a loser, ha ha ha let's make jokes", no. I mean real live "I have no life, and can't change my ways" losers Response: this is sad but true at times. there are ppl out there whos whole lives revolve around the games they play. BUT, if playing those games is what makes them happy, and they are satisfied with how they live, then they arent losers, they are lucky. - On many, many of the posts and threads in this website, people are either endlessly squabbeling over the same things over and over, pointing out the futility of said squabbeling in a vain attempt to sounds mature, makeing bad jokes, replying to bad jokes with worse ones, or some other equally sad activites Response: true...........oh well, no one is prefect :P - Defending D&D with things like: "It promotes problem solving, and math!"... Honestly... that is just stupid. I'll explain more later. Response: i agree. - You can't tell people what you accomplished in D&D, becuase, honestly, no one cares. Even other D&D players. They'll only listen and act interested so they can rave about their own characters and stories. Tell me, who here can honestly say they care what my first character was? Response: true, most of the time anyway - During a radio broadcast of a D&D game, one of the players said that he some times wonders what he's doing with his life Response: well i dont know the context of this conversation so i cant really make a response to it, but it sounds like he simply isnt happy with what he has going for him at the time. if he doesnt have a good paying job and a nice car and house, and he wants those, then he should make an attempt at getting them9and i dont mean play the lottery) - My DM is in the mid/late thirties, lives alone sourounded by literly hundreds of RPG books, anime, and minis. At first I thought "Sweeeet", but then I wondered "What does he feel like at night when he's about to climb into bed?" I feel bad for him. Response: if he is happy with the way that he lives, and is happy about what he has done and is doing in his life, then you should have no reason to feel sry for him. - Many times the point coms up that people are ignorant of D&D. That they will eventually see that it's not bad, that it's just misunderstood. Ok, sure, but why are we on the defensive at all? It sounds like we think it's right to play D&D, and that you should accept it without question. Response: this question often ties into religious purposes, so ill try to leave that out, and simply say that some ppl(change some to most if you live in the US) are simple minded and are not willing to change their views on things easily. im 20 years old i work i go to college i game with friends i hang out with friends w/o gaming i am a geek and i dont care what you think about it Theres nothing wrong with being a geek, and those who say there is, have just not found the joy that i have in gaming. dis1
Disturbed1 10-20-04, 04:32 PM	:P, sry, my replies to the HUGE quote in my last post(sty to double post), are in the same font as the quote, so its hard to find em. stupid thing :P dis1
nekrolog 10-20-04, 05:04 PM	ALL kinds of people play roleplaying games. There is NO "typical" gamer. There is only public perception vs. the fact that public perception doesn't capture the entire truth.
Dungeonmastercal 10-20-04, 06:20 PM	Vagrant, it sounds to me like you need to sell me all your gaming stuff really cheap and move on with your life.
ImmortalBlueMage 10-20-04, 08:13 PM	:rofl: Yeah, like I said, if you want people who don't like D&D, the D&D message boards just aren't where you go looking. I dunno, maybe Vagrant has the right idea and we're all hopelessly in denial. I doubt it, but it's not impossible. I think the bottom line is that if he thinks D&D has been so bad for his life he should just stop playing and we can respect that decision. The rest of us will probably keep playing and life will go on. I am curious to hear whether cutting D&D out of his life really improves his situation or his self-esteem any, but it seems unlikely we'll ever find out.
Coldpenguin625 10-20-04, 09:08 PM	First, a brief story. Yesterday as I was driving myself up to my "local" game shop to celebrate D&D's 30th anniversary with a special apperance by Monte Cook, I made a sudden turn off the highway and stopped at Arby's. I suddenly no longer wished to go to the game store, nor meet Monte Cook, nor be affiliated with D&D. As I ate my #3 roast beef sandwich I questioned my sudden doubt of the game. I began listing the bad aspects of the game and how it may have negitivly affected my life, even though I am only 17. Now, unto the point of the thread. I want to know how many people are willing to admit that D&D either attracts people of certain types, or produces them. By that I mean, what negatives have you seen about this game? From the top: - I have desencitized myself to being a geek/loser, and as a result I have felt no shame in letting others know that I am - I have spent money on books I'll never use, when I could of saved it, gave it to charity, or bought some thing usefull with it - I have alienated some of my classmates in foolish attempts to get them to play D&D - I went to a game store, and everyone playing D&D were... well, complete losers. Not just "Ha ha, I'm a loser, ha ha ha let's make jokes", no. I mean real live "I have no life, and can't change my ways" losers - On many, many of the posts and threads in this website, people are either endlessly squabbeling over the same things over and over, pointing out the futility of said squabbeling in a vain attempt to sounds mature, makeing bad jokes, replying to bad jokes with worse ones, or some other equally sad activites - Defending D&D with things like: "It promotes problem solving, and math!"... Honestly... that is just stupid. I'll explain more later. - You can't tell people what you accomplished in D&D, becuase, honestly, no one cares. Even other D&D players. They'll only listen and act interested so they can rave about their own characters and stories. Tell me, who here can honestly say they care what my first character was? - During a radio broadcast of a D&D game, one of the players said that he some times wonders what he's doing with his life - My DM is in the mid/late thirties, lives alone sourounded by literly hundreds of RPG books, anime, and minis. At first I thought "Sweeeet", but then I wondered "What does he feel like at night when he's about to climb into bed?" I feel bad for him. - Many times the point coms up that people are ignorant of D&D. That they will eventually see that it's not bad, that it's just misunderstood. Ok, sure, but why are we on the defensive at all? It sounds like we think it's right to play D&D, and that you should accept it without question. Let's be clear about this though. I am not saying that D&D is bad, or that the people who play it are. I could advocate it all day, I can see many disputes agianst the points I've all ready raised. But that's not the point of this thread. I do not want pro-D&D aurguments here. Obvisly we all like D&D if were here so just shut up and do something else with your time if you plan to bring an aurgument up. I want simply what you've noticed, had seen, done, felt that has made you question your own choice in the hobby. Raise points and arugue for them. Like such: I have said that "D&D promotes math and problem solving" is a stupid aurgument, and it is. Almost all hobbies promote some healthy trait or another. Football, physical fitness and teamwork. Fishing, stress releaving and respect for the outdoors. Video games, hand eye coordination and problem solving. Reading, literacy and "smartness". For toilet sake, can't people think of something better to do with their time then actually tell other D&D players why D&D is good for you, non--the-less, using laughable points? One last time. I ask that you do not argue with me or any other poster here. I'm stateing observations, facts, and opinions. I'm not lieing, nor saying that all players are lonely fat losers. Besides, if you actually are pig-headed enough to rant about the opinions I'm presenting then you're just showing how much time you waste trying to convince people of your "I'm right, I'm better, I'm smarter, your wrong, get off the boards no one likes you" additude. We need a draft so the army can have a chance to turn crybabys like you into men. - Coldpenguin, a 17 year old as well who doesn't like pointless whining.
TheYeti1775 10-20-04, 09:35 PM	Really after looking at this post, let me reflect on my role-playing life. Started around 10-11, and still going strong I just turned 30. In that time, I have played Football, Lacrosse, and even did scene work for the Drama department in high school. Still played regularly at least once a week. Still partyed with the normal High School crowd too. Graduated, had a steady job at a bank. Still played. Joined the Marine Corps (hence the 1775 in my handle) in 1993, and still played. Not as regular but when I had a chance I did. Got very active in Wargaming for obivious reasons. 1999 got out of the Marine Corps, became a contractor to the Marines. Still played everynow and then. Met my wife got married and had a kid. Her and her girlfriend went to Lord of the Rings and met a couple that roleplayed there. Conversation started because they were reading a Forgotten Realms novel my wife had read. Back to playing regularly once a week. Got a new job back home in the DC area with the Marines again. Check these boards and www.enworld.org and find a guy in Leesburg advertising starting a game in August. Emailing back and forth I'm invited. Now I regularly play, (in a very good game I might add). (Shameless plug for "Destan" see the story hours on EnWorld for Leesburg in Valus and Sins of Our Fathers.) Yet I still have an active life, though I do spend a lot of time on the computer, it is my chosen profession. And you know what I'm happy doing it. So for me it's a positive thing. Bill aka The Yeti P.S. My 4 year old is magic with a D20, seems to always roll high. Seems like a Natural. :D
The_Dark_One 10-20-04, 10:46 PM	That fact that you choose to go to Arby's makes me doubt your taste. To get totally off-topic here, what is wrong with Arby's? The Nirvana of the Beef and Cheddar has already been mentioned, so I'll not rehash it. However, there is another reason to go to Arby's: Hardees has stopped serving roast beef sandwiches. I just found this out about a week ago. When did this happen? Explain this to me. Hardees, which is famous for serving roast beef sanwiches , suddenly decides to cut them from the menu, so that they can become another cookie cutter burger joint. In conclsusion, I agree totally with what is obviously The Vagrant's main point: Arby's rocks .
ImmortalBlueMage 10-21-04, 12:28 AM	We need a draft so the army can have a chance to turn crybabys like you into men. - Coldpenguin, a 17 year old as well who doesn't like pointless whining. In favor of the draft? I take it you're a Bush supporter then In any case, that was unneccesarily harsh.
The_Dark_One 10-21-04, 12:54 AM	For toilet sake :mymy: :uh-huh: I can honestly say that I have never encountered this expression before.:twitch: :mymy:
Farealmer 10-21-04, 01:42 AM	When i see this thread i think of the song "it's a hard knock life". Seriously people don't you get this kid. Fast food + teen hormones = accelerated identity crisis. Hes just trying not to be alone like all teens feel. Don't fall for it, this thread is about as serious as anything else teens in his situations do. And kid when fast food makes you question hobbies it's time to go to subway's.
Peshk, Tiefling At Large 10-21-04, 04:57 AM	That was indeed awfully harsh Coldpenguin625. Anyway, let me play Devil's Advocate here for a moment. Vagrant does have a point. Think about everything that has been posted up to now. We have all agreed that it can become an obsession. We have agreed that it does attracts different people. Maybe he has just gotten to the point that happens to everyone where he is taking a look at his life and wondering "how it all ended up like this?" Neither good nor bad, just as it is (Of course, I could just be completely off the real reason, but...) Take it also as a challenge. What could be wrong? Is there any of us who does not know that one person that got so into the game, that we wondered if he should lay it off for a while? That one person that got so obsessed that all he could talk was the game? I mean, don't get me wrong, my fellow players and I comment about the last session almost everytime that we see each other, but then we move on to other things, college, girls, etc. Anyway, to balance. Do I consider myself a loser? No. Do I consider myself a geek? Partly, yes, mostly due to the insane amount of useless trivia that I carry around on my head. Was I popular on school? No, and I never truly wanted to be. I was I, and that was enough. I have a girlfriend who is also a gamer, and our styles are different. I see ourselves still playing when we can ten or twenty years from now. However, I also can see some of my friends stuck on this, not going out and trying to find their own happines because they are obsessed with the game. And what I believe is most important, if this is as several have pointed out: an identity crisis or a severe low self steem, wouldn't you want to know what people thinks to help you thru it? In the end, we have only our own answers, but those are made by one the core precepts of this game, which is social interaction.
ctuttle 10-21-04, 01:20 PM	Why is it I just do not understand your post? Let me sum it up: "Here are all my inflamatory observations. Don't disagree with me." Yeah great post. What was it you are trying to accomplish here?
Coldpenguin625 10-21-04, 02:46 PM	Harsh? Yeah sure, I guess I was wrong to say pathetic whiners need to learn that life is rough. As for being a Bush supporter, I'm more of a "Whiny people shut the hell up" advocate, regardless of president.
Black Kitten 10-21-04, 04:55 PM	I've read this threath with interest now. I have found that, while thinking D&D is a very good game and I am most toroughly enjoy it, some of these points raised may be true. I myself am 19 and live in the Dutch 'biblebelt'. I mean no offence, but being atheistic myself leaves me with no-one to interact with. (this is something I've found out through painful experience and do not want to suggest in any way that other parts of the world this will result in a similar problem. It only has with me). This leaves me a lot on my own. I have found, in the beginning, refuge in D&D since it allowed me to interact. It gave me something to do in the weekends (since I have to travel 15km by bike to get there). This over time has grown me a club of friends of about 35 people that I like a lot and we all share (though sometimes vague) bond through D&D (though most were introduces as girlfriends/boyfriends). In addition to that, I have come to play an RPG by Email over the internet, which I also still participate in. This personal stuff aside, it has a link. I have found that D&D, at least for me, does not alienise me, but allows me to do more than just hang around bars and drink (I can't stand the taste of beer, so I fall out a lot there too). D&D for me is still a tool to express my burning brain-energy and enabling me to get out more. It makes me a social looser on some points, but I feel it is a good way for me to express myself. Depending on how you look upon yourself you can make this game what you want. As long as you are socially capable, things will come around alright. Now if this piece didn't make sense to any of you, or was totally unreadable due my lack of knowledge in the English language, I apologize. Regards, Jos
The_one_wit_a_reason 10-21-04, 09:56 PM	for me it all comes down to this i play dnd as a hobby it sorta aleinates me from some of my freinds but reinforces new freindships with my gaming buddys i look around at my gaming store and i do not idolize the people who have spent there whole life in games and not in the real world and i cant understand there resoning for that but not to say i dont like them one of my dnd buddies cant understand why i would miss gaming sessions to go to football practice :( and i couldnt explain to him that somthings take precidence over gaming like good health and a love for the game and as i said i do not feel i am wasting my life on dnd although maybe money like in the oppurtunity to go to a school dance or do a gameing session i would go to the dance although i would apologize to my group by the way i dont eat fast food execpt for wendys spicy chicken sand which so i guess im not a typical gamer
Sir Knight 10-22-04, 08:46 AM	This is a pointless and ignorant thread. I'm sorry but we're not allowed to defend or counter your points. We're only to bash something that we like. What does it matter if someone calls you a geek or whatever? It sounds like you have a self-esteem issue. Oh right! You're only 17. You have a lot of growing up to do. In some regards I'm a stereotypical gamer. I wear glasses. I'm overweight. I don't like sports, or cars, or "hip" stuff. I like to read, play D&D, video games, huge Star Wars fan, etc. I have no issues with that and I have the opposite opinion of games than you do. Yes, some are pretty sheltered, emotionally devoid, and take being "geeky" to the extreme. But you know what? That is their choice and their problem. If you like the game play it. If you don't like the game don't. I don't see where this gets us. Though.. I'm a bit of a hypocrit. I responded. I posted this half-arse response because I am trying to tailor my response so as not to cause World War ten. I'm done, probably won't read anymore threads like this in the future. My main point I guess is to figure out who you are and be that person. Just because someone thinks your geeky who gives a damn? Who is to say that gamers are the cool ones and sports fans are geeks? It's all about perception and the public mass. I live my life and ignore other's opinions. You should think about doing the same and just be you. Really, after reading all of your points, the problem isn't other gamers, gaming, or civilization. The problem is you and how you see yourself. :)
ctuttle 10-26-04, 04:35 PM	Hey since you have no more interest in D&D - you want to send me all your stuff? I'll even pay shipping costs. :mymy:
Dungeonmastercal 10-26-04, 04:46 PM	Hey since you have no more interest in D&D - you want to send me all your stuff? I'll even pay shipping costs. :mymy: Heh..I offered to buy his stuff from him, but no response. Evidently he just wants attention, not cash.
MiloDaGreat 10-26-04, 05:24 PM	I hate how everyone is ganging up on this poor 17 year old! I just started playing D&D because it has always been something I think I could be interested in. My friends got into it with me (we all hated Mirrodin Block in M:tG). We started playing and enjoy it greatly, so much that Magic is taking a back burner to D&D even though the new set is pretty good. I dont have a problem with the money part, I mean when you think about it D&D is actually incredibly cheap since you only need like the 2 books and your imagination. It is also potentially free with this invention called the internet. I personally am only a geek to those who are not geeks. Those who are geeks would never suspect it unless I told them. I don't have a job, but I am a third year university student, but I'm a philosophy major...so it really means nothing. AND...I see what Vagrant is talking about. I understand what he means by some of the geeks and losers you can see playing D&D. On the 30th anniversary I was going to run a beginner game with a bunch of people who were interested in D&D and never played as well as my current group of n00b's. The owner of the store said he wasn't expecting anyone there, so it would be cool if I came in and ran the game. I woke up around 2pm like I usually do and expected to get there around 4 to run the game for 6...or something like that. It seems I was too late because there were already three groups running games by the time my friends and myself reached the store. One of the groups looked like us, they were fine. Another group contained a few younger pimple faced kids, which was fine. Then there was the last group, the experienced players, all pushing 400lbs+ and reeking of geekstink. I am sure many chairs were broken that day. It was enough to scare off anyone interested in learning D&D that day. These people were seriously the stereotypical D&D players that you can only read about or see in movies. I asked one of the employees of the store if maybe they could send the group to the basement, where nobody could see them, but the guy working said he didn't have that level of authority. Look, I don't mean to be a jerk, but at the same time I do. I mean, its cool if your a fat geek and have a high paying job with a harem of beautiful gamer girlfriends. By all means, that sounds like the life of a champion. It is just so annoying to hear everyone say that they have never seen this type of thing before when everyone I have ever talked about it with in my real life understands. THESE PEOPLE DO EXIST, I AM POSITIVE THERE IS AT LEAST 1 WRITING ON THESE MESSAGE BOARDS...its like the elephant thats sitting in the living room and people refute its existence. SO ANNOYING. Anyway, most of you will probably be all elitist about my post and yell at me for saying anything because I haven't been playing for long and I don't know what I'm talking about.
DrWorm 10-26-04, 06:13 PM	I mean, its cool if your a fat geek and have a high paying job with a harem of beautiful gamer girlfriends. By all means, that sounds like the life of a champion. Sweet Monkey! You made me spit coffee all over my monitor I laughed so hard. AMEN! If I was one to pad my sig with quotes and such yours would be at the top. As to the rest of your post, I don't think that people posting here would deny the existance of the gamer stereotype; it is a stereotype for a reason. I think the issue is that people deny the nessesity of becoming the stereotype just becuase they game. Obviously you those that are not ikn theis stereotype would seek to differentiate themselves, and thus are more likely to post in reply to the original poster.
Grausherra The Dynast 10-26-04, 08:09 PM	It is just so annoying to hear everyone say that they have never seen this type of thing before when everyone I have ever talked about it with in my real life understands. THESE PEOPLE DO EXIST, I AM POSITIVE THERE IS AT LEAST 1 WRITING ON THESE MESSAGE BOARDS...its like the elephant thats sitting in the living room and people refute its existence. SO ANNOYING. Yes, they do exist. The thing is though that people tend to think that every single living room on the planet has an elephant sitting in it. Not just one living room. In otherwords, people are not neccesarily denying that such a thing exists somewhere, but it is not all that common. I like my new sig! :D
MiloDaGreat 10-26-04, 10:03 PM	Well, I think that was the point that The_Vagrant was trying to make. That these tubby geeks who know every single thing about D&D sometimes ruin the game when you play in an open area with other random gamers. That is something I hate about all the geeky hobbies...from Magic to D&D to Warhammer...that is what I am agreeing upon.
The_Dark_One 10-27-04, 01:21 AM	Look, I don't mean to be a jerk, but at the same time I do. I mean, its cool if your a fat geek and have a high paying job with a harem of beautiful gamer girlfriends. By all means, that sounds like the life of a champion. It is just so annoying to hear everyone say that they have never seen this type of thing before when everyone I have ever talked about it with in my real life understands. THESE PEOPLE DO EXIST, I AM POSITIVE THERE IS AT LEAST 1 WRITING ON THESE MESSAGE BOARDS...its like the elephant thats sitting in the living room and people refute its existence. SO ANNOYING. "We'll pretend it doesn't exist, just like we do with the squid"...Peter Griffon
ctuttle 10-27-04, 11:44 AM	I hate how everyone is ganging up on this poor 17 year old! If you stand downrange... in front of a target... you are going to get shot at. I asked one of the employees of the store if maybe they could send the group to the basement, where nobody could see them, but the guy working said he didn't have that level of authority. Wow - just ... wow. You know - I don't know any gamers who weigh 400lbs. But I have a feeling their attitude is probably a lot better than yours. This is one of the most insensitive and callous things I have ever heard. Did you talk to these guys? Perhaps they were extremely nice? Did you think about that before you made such a cold-hearted statement to someone behind their back? Next time why don't you go ask them personally to move down to the basement. Regardless of what someone looks like - we are all gamers here. Get off your high horse. You know these people you keep referring to are not trying to be your Poster Child. They are just trying to play a game.
nyysjan 10-27-04, 12:47 PM	I am 23 year's old unemployed and have no girlfriend I have no friends period and i play D&D does this make me a loser I am different than other people i know I am antisocial about a month ago i on a whim started to go to some interned rpg forums take part in the conversations and present my opinions about matters discussed, this was possibly most social interaction with people not of my immediate family in months. i havent played for a while because finding people to game with has been a bit difficult because there are no game stores around here but i was able to find a small group of people to play with couple weeks ago "game should start in a week or two, group DM me one other dude and my little sister i was able to talk into it" Back in elementary school i was told by my teacher's to act 'normaly' to 'behave' like others I Would Not. I am a Me, Myself and i will stay Myself as long as i live. If i started to conform to the norms set by other people just to be accepted i would truly be a loser, to sacrifice Myself to the demands of other people just to be accepted would be the greatest loss i can think of. I will stay lonely if that is the price i must pay for being individual. I sometimes wish for company off other people and i do wish to find someday a girl to fall in love with, but if to do these things i must stop being Me, i will forsake them. There are no losers but those who lose themselves. There are no failures but those who fail themselves.
Damien_Hiro 10-27-04, 03:20 PM	I hate how everyone is ganging up on this poor 17 year old! Hey he made a generalization about gamers, we are just showing him that we are all different. See the forest for its trees. I agree with ctuttle, if you're gonna **** into the wind, you're gonna get wet.
Coldpenguin625 10-27-04, 04:02 PM	I don't have a job, but I am a third year university student, but I'm a philosophy major...so it really means nothing. Wow, a philosophy major, I guess that places you somewhere on the social ladder above pencil manufacturers but below hamster breeders? You are right on one thing though, it does mean nothing, kind of like everything you say or everything you will ever accomplish in your sad, pathetic life. Then there was the last group, the experienced players, all pushing 400lbs+ and reeking of geekstink. I am sure many chairs were broken that day. It was enough to scare off anyone interested in learning D&D that day. These people were seriously the stereotypical D&D players that you can only read about or see in movies. I asked one of the employees of the store if maybe they could send the group to the basement, where nobody could see them, but the guy working said he didn't have that level of authority. Let me guess, you also ask bus drivers to make the blacks sit in the back right? You sure seem like the type who would... Anyway, most of you will probably be all elitist about my post and yell at me for saying anything because I haven't been playing for long and I don't know what I'm talking about. No, but I will be all elitist and say you have no idea what you're talking about since you made such moronic statements as above. Next time think before you post anything, in fact, don't post at all, the boards are a lot less hostile without people like you. If I sound angry, it's simply because your stupidity set me off.
Nimruzir 10-27-04, 04:59 PM	I have read this thread with great interest as I am very interested in the sociological aspects of gaming (including tabletop war gaming, RPGs, CCGs, etc.). I read the original post of this thread several times, and I have to empathize with "The Vagrant" to some degree. I tried to think back to when I was seventeen (I am now twenty-seven), and try to find where this was coming from. And I have to admit that there may be some greater wisdom hidden beneath the rough exterior of his post. The first issue I can see here is the normal quest for a young person's understanding of self. I won't go into depth here as there are people available to talk to about this (namely one's parents if they are available). Suffice it to say that it's normal, although a bit dramatic perhaps. Now onto the issue which concerns us. Are D&D players, Warhammer players, Magic players, etc. social misfits. In some cases I would have to say yes. And in others no. Just like all issues there is no single absolute. On one hand you have the gentleman nicknamed "Damien Hiro" (thank you for your service) who does not fit the stereotype. Or my group, all twenty and thirty-somethings who have wives, families, jobs, lives and so on. We get together on a weeknight and go to a place only the imaginative nature of RPGs can provide. So if one side exists, there must be another. Let me give an example. There are two main gaming stores in town. One is mostly a tabletop wargaming store, the other is all of the above. At the tabletop store we have lawyers, dentists, software engineers, computer techs, ex-military guys, whatever (let me also say that I don't agree with our typical definition of what someone is ny their job, but that is another argument). I am very comfortable there. People are very inviting there and eager to help new players and to help others who are casually intrested in what we do. Then there is the other store. I have been going there for a couple of years now, and every time I go through the door I feel uncomfortable. Most of the people that are in the employ of this store have very little social skill, argue about the minutia of every little rule, and generally are not very nice. But if you want to gloat over the various traps that you have created to befuddle your group, they will go on forever. Why the difference? I'm not sure. One thing I can say for sure is that it seems that the people who tend toward anti-social behavior are avid D&Ders. Do I feel it's the game? No, not at all. I feel that just like anything else in this world, excess is probably not a good idea. So what is the definition of to much? I don't think it's necessarily a matter of time as much as it is a matter of the result of your behavior. Are you finding that you are alienating others, your abilities to communicate with others are suffering, you feel like an outcast? If so, you probably need to diversify. Try something else, lots of different things, but don't drop D&D altogether. It is not a way of life, it is a game, play it as such. There are so many aspects of this issue that can be discussed, and it really should be studied, but no one wants to read an endless paper about the various social aspects of gaming. I hope though that more people contribute to the thread. The bottom line? There is no bottom line. I believe in the Socratic method of answering questions with more questions. Maybe we can get a better understanding of this hobby that we play by doing just that.
Ongorth 10-27-04, 06:03 PM	I'm trying hard here to figure out who the biggest loser is: 1) The person complaining about how is bad and has aided him becoming a loser 2) The people whose pride got hurt by this comment, so had to flame him or 3) Me, for having nothing better to do than admonish both of the above, without having anything to add to the conversation. I'm just not sure. . .
KelanenPrinceofSwords 10-27-04, 11:19 PM	Good stuff: D&D is a fun (with the right group), relatively cheap (once you've dished out the few hundred bucks on books, dice and minis), completely legal (unless you like to enhance the experience with various "alchemical" substances) way to pass the time. Bad stuff: You can pass an awful lot of time with it that might be more productively spent. (Plus, as the DM, I have spent countless hours developing rich settings and interesting NPCs, even though the players will never know much more about them than what loot they salvaged from the smoking corpse.) Ugly stuff: I must admit that whenever I go into a game shop, the people looking at D&D books or sitting around playing a game of D&D or MtG do seem a tad bit socially awkward, and that's putting it politely. :88E: :looloo: :drool: :P :twitch:
The_Dark_One 10-28-04, 12:22 AM	but no one wants to read an endless paper about the various social aspects of gaming. Maybe some of us do...
MiloDaGreat 10-28-04, 04:32 PM	Coldpenguin625!!! That was awesome, I was laughing so hard when I read that. Seriously, it was a great read. I totally agree with you there is no way I am making it in this world with my philosophy degree and I have NO IDEA what I am going to do with my life. Probably nothing, maybe become homeless or worse...living with my parents FOREVER! For the record I am really, really cold...but I am not racist. I can't say that I'm not prejudice or judgemental though. The stinky gamers that were at the store that day were not nice, maybe I should have included that in what I wrote. My friends and I asked if we could play, but they refused to talk to us. Maybe it was because some of my friends made fun of these people before I got there...I wasn't around for that though, so I don't know. Even if my friends did make fun of them it would still be okay because I love my friends for being as cold as me it is probably why we are such a tight-knit group. I am sure these people are used to others talking smack about them, if you saw them you would know what I am talking about. People talk smack about me all the time, but I shrug it off because I don't care; I know I suck. p.s. I like the view from my high horse, I can see more people to judge from here.
Palin the Wizard 10-28-04, 07:47 PM	:whatsthis ... :uh-huh: :bored: What a bunch of :censored:! D&D does not make anyone a loser. If you're a loser, it's because you see yourself as a loser. Life isn't a dance on roses, and at times, it gets harsh. Very harsh. But trying to put off all your problems on a RPG is just... gah, I don't have words. The only way to get a life is to--get this--get a life. Whether or not that life includes D&D--or, indeed, any other hobby--is entirely up to you. The truth is, D&D is just a hobby, like most other things. It has bad points and it has good points. Just like any other hobby. Don't flame my favorite hobby! :fight!:
Makseb 10-29-04, 01:49 AM	I'm pretty new to the boards and I thought this was an interesting post to respond to. I'm not so sure if I can add anything really 'new' to this discussion, but here's my take: D&D is a hobby D&D is a world of fantasy D&D is a level/means of interaction D&D is a lifestyle But we're all playing our own games here, and even if we use the same rulebooks, the games will mean different things to each of us. To someone it is a hobby, to someone else it is a lifestyle, to someone else it's having fun with friends and well, you get the idea. Vagrant- I think it's a great thing to pull over in a parking lot or Arby's or wherever and take a look at what is important to you. And I liked your post a lot too, and that you wanted to see if anyone else thought like you did. I played D&D as a kid and loved the * out of it. Still remember games from 5th grade during free periods. heheh.. fun times. I got older and lost interest a bit later in high school. Other things became important to me and I didn't think twice about it. I traveled through Germany and backpacked through Spain and met girls and explored the world as I was able. Then I went to college and got a different look at the world and learned how vast and varied and full life can be. Not to ramble my life story or anything, but the point is, now I am 25 and I returned to D&D a couple years ago. It's a fun thing. I like imagining storylines and creating them with other people. It's not the only thing I'm interested in but it's a relaxing kind of creativity I enjoy. So... in short, I think that if you feel that D&D is keeping you away from other things that life has to offer, that is a great discovery for you. Life has a lifetime of worlds to explore. D&D is one of them. Enjoy whatever you choose to do. It is your life and your choice.
Rather Large Elf 10-29-04, 10:05 AM	First time post! I just had to stick my oar into this one. I've been role-playing on a weekly basis for 22 years (I'm 33), I'm very happily married (for 12years) with 2 kids (5 & 8) role-playing has never "gotten in the way" of my life. Am I a geek? well maybe but a geek who gets drunk with non role-playing friends, plays pool and darts and goes body building (non-necromantic or flesh golems). If the Vagrant has so many issues with our hobby and it doesn't make him happy maybe he should just drop it, but i get the feeling he would find something equally as geeky and anti-social to do. My 8 year old son has just started getting interested in my D&D books, am I going to discourage him? h*ll no why should I take something away from him that has given me so many years of pleasure. Finally a friend who is judgemental or anti your hobby is not a friend worth having!
The Vagrant 10-29-04, 11:23 PM	1. My internet service was down for a while. That explains my absence. Here is the important one that I've said at least three times: 2. I did not, do not, and refuse to, say that D&D sucks. That all players are losers. That I do not enjoy D&D. Or that I think overly harsh things about the hobby of D&D (bar the movies of course). Most of the posts on this thread disregard the above and think I'm making calling them names, or that I hate the game. That is simply not true. 3. I have healthy self-esteem. I can present myself to others confidently, and can honestly say I like me. This thread (as explained (once more) thouroughly below) was never about my personal self-esteem. Once more, I'll restate the point of this thread. This time I ask that you all actually read it. 4. I want you to post the negative aspects and bad-case senerios of the D&D hobby. They do exist. Examples make great teachers so... Then there was the last group, the experienced players, all pushing 400lbs+ and reeking of geekstink. I am sure many chairs were broken that day. It was enough to scare off anyone interested in learning D&D that day. These people were seriously the stereotypical D&D players that you can only read about or see in movies There, that is what I was asking for. MiloDaGreat obvisly enjoys the game and thinks that not all D&D players are complet life failures, but he has shared an experince that shows a negative aspect of the game. 5. Is it trolling to ask for the nagtive aspects? No, it's simply something new to do instead of sitting around patting each others' backs for playing such a great game and calling ourselves unique individuals. 6. I am not a whiner, nor a crybaby. I am a very calm individual, though this thread is begining to ruffle my feathers (see 2). And is this thread a whinning one? No (see 4). And finally: Heh..I offered to buy his stuff from him, but no response. Evidently he just wants attention, not cash. When did you offer this? And, more importantly, how much? While I do like D&D, I sure as heck don't like it as much as money.
Coldpenguin625 10-29-04, 11:57 PM	Nope...you're a crybaby and worse, thanks for trying though, you gave me a good laugh with your last post. Here's a tip, next time you post anything on the forums, try not to do so while making this face: :weep: because your mood shows through in the way you write. Perhaps you'll consider Johnson & Johnson "No More Tears" shampoo as well? I hear it's good for whiners.
evilgenius 10-30-04, 12:12 AM	Vagrant- I think it's a great thing to pull over in a parking lot or Arby's or wherever and take a look at what is important to you. And I liked your post a lot too, and that you wanted to see if anyone else thought like you did. . Makseb... I totally agree. Introspection is never wrong. Vagrant, congratulations on having the balls to take a really hard look at your life and ask where you're going. I wish some of my friends who got into serious drugs had done the same early on. We don't associate anymore, but a little introspection on their part at the right time could have saved them from some misery. I am not saying that D&D is as addictive as hard core chemical drug use, I just use it as an example of how healthy it can be to really look at yourself and question where you are going and who you are. I for one will say that I have no probs with D&D, though I did at one point in my life. There was a period that I felt that I was locking myself into a behaviour pattern. I spent probably too much time at it, and really sat down and asked myself some hard questions. Honestly, my education was suffering, since I gamed more often that I studied. It was wierd - I was more concerned with the development of my character than the development of myself. I planned my character's future while I neglected my own. My character would get fit, gain wealth and influence, increase his knowledge, and I sat on my can in a room rolling dice. Perhaps it was that it was easier to succeed in D&D than it was in real life. Maybe it was because there was no consequence for failure (other than a crumpled character sheet), so I could take risks and assert myself through my character. Maybe it was simply a misdirection of my desire to succeed and grow... I don't know. Having said that, I realized soon that I should limit my playing to once a week - it's an ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM for me now - though I haven't gamed a regular weekly game in over two years, though I am looking to start one these days. Back on subject though; It was Dungeon Mastering (& storytelling a World of Darkness campaign) that got me back on my feet. Honestly. I was really good at it. I am a fantastic DM, and I have often had to turn away players in my home town once word got out that I ran an intriguing game. Not to toot my own horn, I wasn't the best, but I am good... There's a reason I mention this - It showed me that with application of effort, I could accomplish what I wanted to do. Plus, the difficulty of DMing often made me slow down the tempo of gaming to once a week. I took that creative energy and understanding that I could succeed at something, and put it towards music, my studies, and my work. Since then I have been more successful in real life, and it's finally paying off for me. Vagrant, please don't take all of this negative garbage that's being thrown at you. Make a decision based on what's right for you, and never stop looking at yourself in the mirror man. Good luck. L8er evilgenius
MiloDaGreat 10-30-04, 03:05 AM	This is the most emotional board ever...! I think I love you guys...BEST FRIENDS FOREVER, GO FRIENDS! I even love you Coldpenguin625, you might think there are problems between us, but I love you most of all! YAY SUPERFRIENDS!
DrWorm 10-30-04, 03:12 AM	4. I want you to post the negative aspects and bad-case senerios of the D&D hobby. Oh I understand you point, but I have not interest in posting like that. I think that posting about the negative minority is unhlepful and verges on self flagillation in some casses. Why do you wish to waste your energy belittling those that you see as un attractive, (like 400lb people). Who the he11 gave you the right to judge others? Who gets to decide that these people are part of the negative aspects of the game? You have a lot of nerve comming here a dmanding that we talk trash about others that share our hobby.
R-man 10-30-04, 03:16 AM	Does D&D have negative aspects? Yes it does as other posters have stated, but it also has positive aspects. The question you have to ask yourself is this. "Who are You", are you a roleplayer first? Or do you describe yourself in other terms and only get to roleplayer if at all near the end. The difference is that one is a healthy hobby and the other is an obsession. For myself; D&D helped get me out a crippling shyness problem as a teen, it showed me I was capable enough to stand in front of people and speak. Okay initially I overcompensated and was the guy who does that little speach at the front of IMAX theatres for a year. But later on it allowed me to have the self-confidence to move into my present career of Casino Management which I have worked on for 15 years now. It also gave me the self-confidence to ask out girls and later on helped me meet my wife. You see the secret is that to gain self-confidence you have to be good at something, anything even something as real world useless as knowing what the stats for an ancient huge Red Dragon are! You then use your new found self-confidence in other more useful areas of your life and you will suddenly realize that you are a smart capable human being who has something to offer the world. D&D is just a hobby, but like most hobbies it can be an obsession or a thing that you do in your spare time. There have been times in my life when D&D has had used up an unhealthy amount of my time. You learn to deal with it or you don't. Those who don't have what is known as addictive personalities. And if you find yourself getting depressed about the amount of time you spend on your hobby and don't seem to be able to do anything about it, remember this; there are a lot worse addictions out there that can reallllllly screw up your life if you let them.
Neerie 10-31-04, 12:46 AM	Who decides who's cool and who's not? Who decide if you're a looser? Because someone else said so? NO! You can only be a looser if you consider yourself a looser. Do I consider myself uncool? No way! Do I consider myself a nerd? Hell yeah! And proud of it! See, I don't put being a nerd and being a looser in the same bag. Someone can be cool and a looser, someone can be a nerd and be cool. It's all about perspective. What makes someone cool? Is someone cool just cause he hangs out with lots of people? Because he goes out at night and spends his money on booze and find everything else boring? Here are my own definitions of things: Being a nerd: Not being a sheep, thinking for yourself and express your own thoughts and ideas, not following the mass because everyone does it. Cool: Having a good reputation in your group of interest/hobby or whatnot, having people look up to you, having some people envy you. Looser: Not knowing what you want, doing as everyone else says you should, being a sheep. Note that those who will categorize you as being a looser for liking D&D are the same kind of people who will push people down in order to appear shinier on top. Do you really care what they think? I prefer to participate in activities I enjoy, with others who also enjoy said activities, and be cool in that group of people. Assume yourself and your interests, don't try to convert those who are not interested, and people will finally stop seing you as a looser, because then, they'll see that you know what you want! As stated before, all of what you have listed applies to every single hobbies out there! Many of which have been stereotyped by outsiders. I hate stereotypes, and I often don'T fit them, so all I can do is continue to be myself and people will come to realize that all of what they think is true doesn't necessarily has to be after all.
xann 10-31-04, 10:57 AM	geeze guys, and ummmm gals (i hope :D ) dnd is a fun socal event my friends an i wait all week to play it. ya i hear um a dnd geek, but what is that ways? So i spent 12 hrs on Sun playin' games instead of watching the Idiot Box. I once herd tthat there is a possible link to Alzhimers (if thats spelled wrong maby ive got it) to brain in-activity. those people who get up @ 7am sit @ a desk tell 5pm go home have a nap watch t.v. eat supper fall asleep in frount of the t.v go to bed @ 11pm, get up @ 7am...you get the point......
Bringslite 10-31-04, 10:59 PM	Alot of the posters on this thread are missing the point. D&D is a great hobby that I love to play but like all hobbies it could have some negative aspects. I for one, have enough confidence in myself to be able to accept this and be able to discuss them. If for no other reason than it is a different topic than the usual on these boards. Why must so many of you lash out and call The Vagrant names and put him down or psycoanalyze his post? We are all free to post our views within the COC and I don't think that some of these posts comply with that. Now as asked by the starter of the thread, I will list some of the negative things I feel about the game. 1. I discovered D&D when in middle school. It became an obsession and my grades went from A's to C's. It was funner to make maps and dream about orcs than to pay attension to teachers. 2..... Hmmm... that's all I can really think of that is negative. As I think about it, even that was more of my own personal problem of wanting to escape from the pressure of family trouble and not fitting in at a new school. Maybe the negative aspects of this (or any other) hobby are the one's that we, as individuals, bring to it ourselves. I'm sorry Vagrant but I can't really think of any bad things to say about the game. The game is just a hobby to pass the time and pursue my interests. If I put too much energy into it and my life goes nowhere because of it that is really my fault. If people consider me a geek or loser for enjoying my hobby so be it. I consider myself a geek (for my expertise in what is really a socially fringe activity) but I would be a loser if I let the opinions of others keep me from what I love. A very interesting topic. Thank you for getting me to consider the idea. It helped me to remmember that no game or hobby can ever be to blame for who or what I am or how I feel about myself. I am responsible for those things.
The Vagrant 11-03-04, 12:36 AM	Alot of the posters on this thread are missing the point. D&D is a great hobby that I love to play but like all hobbies it could have some negative aspects. I for one, have enough confidence in myself to be able to accept this and be able to discuss them. If for no other reason than it is a different topic than the usual on these boards. Why must so many of you lash out and call The Vagrant names and put him down or psycoanalyze his post? We are all free to post our views within the COC and I don't think that some of these posts comply with that. And here I was begining to think that posters here were all idiots that couldn't follow directions and instead decide to name call, or try to pychoanalize me (innaccuratly I add). Thank you, Bringslite. You obvisly know your turd from your cheese. That's a rare trait nowadays.
StormKnight 11-03-04, 10:52 AM	And here I was begining to think that posters here were all idiots that couldn't follow directions and instead decide to name call, or try to pychoanalize me (innaccuratly I add). Thank you, Bringslite. You obvisly know your turd from your cheese. That's a rare trait nowadays. If you want an intelligent conversation and good input, I recommend you start by providing intelligent beginnings and examples. "Oh gosh, D&D is for losers" is not a complaint that can really be discussed in any rational way as its not a logic or rational statement to begin with. Secondly, you may want to consider the fact that there simply aren't much for logical negatives to discuss.
Coldpenguin625 11-03-04, 04:00 PM	And here I was begining to think that posters here were all idiots that couldn't follow directions and instead decide to name call, or try to pychoanalize me (innaccuratly I add). Thank you, Bringslite. You obvisly know your turd from your cheese. That's a rare trait nowadays. Oh gee, I'm sorry, I didn't realize that I was idiot for not kissing your ass. Hey how about this great idea... Here's what we do, all disgruntled, maladjusted preteens (Vagrant's 17? ha!) get the hell off the boards and stick to wearing black and talking about how life is pain and refering to themselves in third person using names like Ravensblood and Blade. For those of us who don't fit that criteria (everyone but Vagrant), have a nice day! Oh by the way, Vagrant, calling a group of people idiots isn't a good way to stop name calling, especially if the names are true. :D Have fun being depressed! - Matt, a 17 year old who is angry with Vagrant making all people this age look like whining idiots.
Nimruzir 11-03-04, 04:58 PM	And here I was begining to think that posters here were all idiots that couldn't follow directions and instead decide to name call, or try to pychoanalize me (innaccuratly I add). Thank you, Bringslite. You obvisly know your turd from your cheese. That's a rare trait nowadays. Wow, you really stepped in it here. And to think I actually contributed to this thread. This thread should be locked.
Bringslite 11-04-04, 06:20 PM	Vagrant, I can see the basis for your post was to discuss any negative aspects of D&D. However, you might have posted in a better fashion. Can You see that it is not the game that is negative but what you do with it that really matters. How do you expect people to react if you fill your post with a bunch of crap about losers and geeks and your insecurities about how people look at you? This is a Forum for D&D players, about D&D players who obviously enjoy this game. You are really asking for this flamming when you come here and call us, and yourself, these names. The whole point of my post was to get you to see that it's not the game with the problems. Your attitudes about who are losers and geeks are a little imflammitory(spelling?). Who has the real problem? Is it the person going about thier life pursuing what makes them happy? Is it the person who takes a look at thier clothes, thier hobbies, thier weight, thier hygene and decides they are hopeless losers? I think it is the latter. Until these people come to you and say "Please help me I'm a total loser and want to change!" then don't judge them as losers. At least they have the self confidence to live how they like despite all of the cool judges out there. So, don't thank me. I can see the original point of your post but I don't agree with you. The game is fine. Too much focus on candy will make you sick and too much oxygen will make you pass out and too much game is not good for you either. Can't really blame a game for that though. The other junk added has probably encouraged the flames.
Bringslite 11-04-04, 11:38 PM	I am somewhat surprised that this thread is not locked by now.
Bentley Mirrorshade 11-05-04, 05:51 PM	This was quite an enjoyable reading. Suffice to say I absolutely agree with Bringslite. ... Do you know that this is the fifth time I post on these boards? ;)
Bringslite 11-06-04, 10:26 PM	Congrats and welcome Bently! :)